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Speed Tiers List (courtesy of Mekkah's magic numbers)
- Thread starter TheMaster42
- Start date
Good idea. Pikachu is 90 speed, so I've simply listed his name with the other (90)s.
I've added Mixpert, because he is specifically a -nature build. I also added -nature, 0IV Bronzong.
I want to add more trick roomers, but only really common ones (since trick room isn't very common itself, yet). If people could list others/point me in the right direction, I might find some more to add.
I've seen Solrock around as a Trick Roomer, although Bronzong is much more common.
How about a CS Scizor?
WOW!!
Is this EVER useful. With this, I can see exactly where common threats stop, start, etc.
With this, I won't need to just max speed out on a Pokemon that doesn't need to be outrunning 'soandso' Pokemon. I'll be using this quite intently in the future, it'll allow me to invest in some HP or Defense if my Pokemon's Speed doesn't need to be maxed out so it can outrun a Pokemon it'll never battle.
Ex: My 'Water' Pokemon doesn't need max speed if it can outrun a 'Fire' Pokemon at only 184 Speed IVs. Any more Speed EVs mean that it'll be outrunning Pokemon such as a 'Ghost' Pokemon and a 'Normal' Pokemon that it will likely never be battling.
The only thing better than this would be a downloadable calulator where you can input the Pokemon, IV, and Speed EVs and compare it to common Standard Pokemon and at which speeds they are in.
Is this EVER useful. With this, I can see exactly where common threats stop, start, etc.
With this, I won't need to just max speed out on a Pokemon that doesn't need to be outrunning 'soandso' Pokemon. I'll be using this quite intently in the future, it'll allow me to invest in some HP or Defense if my Pokemon's Speed doesn't need to be maxed out so it can outrun a Pokemon it'll never battle.
Ex: My 'Water' Pokemon doesn't need max speed if it can outrun a 'Fire' Pokemon at only 184 Speed IVs. Any more Speed EVs mean that it'll be outrunning Pokemon such as a 'Ghost' Pokemon and a 'Normal' Pokemon that it will likely never be battling.
The only thing better than this would be a downloadable calulator where you can input the Pokemon, IV, and Speed EVs and compare it to common Standard Pokemon and at which speeds they are in.
At 65 base speed, Scizor rarely runs a speed nature, and never runs max speed EVs. If the rare trainer really wanted to run a Choice Scarf Scizor, he could make it hit whatever certain (non-standard) speed he wanted before the Scarf. It would never be a target (at 376 speed) that other trainers would want to overcome to avoid in the standard metagame.
(Though, 376 outruns a surprising amount of stuff... nice surprise there!)
If it becomes common, I'd add it.
If you could teach me what a logarithmic tier is, I'd be happy to look into it. T_T
Actually, the tiers are based exactly on the very strong tiers that were created in Advance generation. 299 was the old breaking point for a ton of pokes, because everything at or below it was perfectly content to be outsped by the "fast" pokes, and almost always ran a non-boosting nature. But everything above it didn't want to be outrun by slower pokes or their fast brethren, and so almost always ran a boosting nature and max speed to be above them.
Garchomp sort of shatters this wall in D/P - you could even call him his own tier, maybe. But the rest of the tiers are still highly intact.
I would venture there's very little arbitrariness to where they are defined.
If you look more carefully, the legend below the list will tell you CS means a pokemon has a Choice Scarf, and 252 means a pokemon has 252 speed EVs and no boosting nature.
Pokemon rarely run boosting natures and choice scarf, as the ones that bother to use scarf are often fast enough to outrun everything important anyway without the nature.
You would never need to list a motor-boosted Electivire with a choice scarf, because firstly, the scarf would destroy Electivire's ability to sweep once it caught a speed boost; secondly, because it's so outrageously fast it's nothing you could ever plan for, even if some crazy fool decided to use one on their team as a funny gimmick.
It's in the list. You can find certain pokes or base speeds by searching in your web-browser.
Also, if you look in the post, you'll notice a link to:
http://www.serebii.net/games/iv-calcdp.shtml
So you can see how many points a nature adds for a pokemon.
I don't want to be rude, but I think it would be most helpful for you if I didn't answer any more questions that are already listed in the guide. You seem to be just asking questions in the thread, rather than trying to put the effort in to find out and learn. That certainly won't get you very far in pokemon. =(
Okay, I think I understand it. log_1.1 gives groupings that are within 10% of each other. I did one with log 1.2 that made 12 tiers. Unfortunately, it's pretty random where the separations fall. For example Infernape (108) is a tier above Mismagius (105), and Scarf Heracross isn't in the tier with the other Scarfers. Gyarados (81) was in a different tier from Togekiss (80), etc etc.
This is a pretty useful math function to divide things up in groups of x%, but I think the tiers based on poke's base speeds will be generally more helpful and recognizable to people.
Thanks for the pointer!
As far as popular trick roomers go, I've seen Trapinch (22 speed with 0 IVs and -speed nature) used with great success.
don't you mean: 'A pokemon with a neutral speed nature, and 252 EVs in speed'?
Quite good. You missed Floatzel and there are some base 115s that use CS such as Azelf.
Quite good. You missed Floatzel and I think you should add base 115s that employ Choice Scarf.
Modest Kingdra can have a max of 269 speed, and that should be added.