• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Other Most Improved Pokemon

Status
Not open for further replies.
252+ SpA Lapras Freeze Dry vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 188-224 (56.45 - 67.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That is hitting a 4x weakness. This is the kind of power your Freeze Dry carries. If I were to run Freeze Dry, I'd probably just go Surf/Freeze Dry/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt or something, just so I can actually have power behind my Ice STAB. Also BoltBeam.

I did my own calc, and this is what I got:

252+ SpA Lapras Freeze Dry vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 280-336 (84.08 - 100.9%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

And Mantine has 140 base SpDef. Admittedly, it won't be wrecking anything that isn't weak to it, but it's still a pretty reliable move.
 
AOPSUser

For the sake of comparison:

252+ SpA Lapras (Move 4) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 132-156 (35.1 - 41.48%) -- 75.37% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Lapras Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 168-198 (44.68 - 52.65%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And to be fair, that calculation for Mantine isn't completely accurate.

252+ SpA Lapras Freeze Dry vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 188-224 (56.45 - 67.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (yours)
252+ SpA Lapras (Move 4) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 280-336 (84.08 - 100.9%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO (mine)
252+ SpA Lapras Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 244-288 (73.27 - 86.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (why not?)

The neat part about Freeze Dry is that it hits like an Electric STAB against Water/Flying types, and like a Grass STAB against Water/Ground or Water/Rock, etc. It's effectively a base 105 move against them, compared to base 90 for Thunderbolt / base 90 for Energy Ball.

*edit: ninja'd to the Freeze Dry And by "ninja'd", I mean I'm an idiot and can't read.
 
I think infestation makes gastrodon an effective trapper, he's not the most improved but he checks talonflame and some other currently popular mons
 
But Ice? What about Ice, GF? Sure, give us Abomasnow and Snow Warning Aurorus. But they're still pretty bad and only used in niche teams. Fifth gen gives us amazingly disappointing mons like Beartic, Vanilluxe, and Cryogonal (Kyurem doesn't count). Sixth gen gives us Avalugg, who is actually a decent mon, but the Ice typing is still a liability. Only one resistance still? I was hoping the new type chart would finally give it a resistance to Water (like it should) but nooooooo. Cmon GF, what has Ice type mons ever done to deserve your ire?

Actually, I think giving Ice a resistance to Fairy would have made some sense. By the same logic that Fire has resistance to it. Something about magical attacks resisting other magical attacks? Not sure, but it makes sense in my head.

P.S. This is my first post!
 
  • Like
Reactions: k13
I have sweeped 6-0 with the new Clefable buff.

Here's my set:

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Bold | 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Moonlight

Thunderbolt is for Azumarill, Talonflame and others that resist Moonblast
Calm Mind + Moonlight are obvious and the Life Orb boost is awesome. Clefable is a helpful team member who can absorb any status aside from Sleep and Paralysis (although not preferred to get Twave'd)

If you elminate the right mons with your other team-mates, it's gg bc Clefable cleans shit upp
 
I'd love this so much! Although I'd probably only agree to it if Water gained something in return such as hitting Dragons neutrally.

Anyways, Clefable and most pokemon with Knock Off are definitely going to be even more fun to play with this gen, for me.
Water is one of the best offensive types. Making it resisted by Ice would make it a bit worse than it was before. Making it also neutral to Dragon would make it quite a bit better. Leaving it at the first would be the most balanced impact.
 
Not sure if it's THE most improved, but I gotta bring up Charizard, who was at the bottom of the barrel last gen. Now he's the only Pokemon outside of Ubers that can Mega Evolve into two Megas, and that gives your opponent a guessing game about what Mega your running, and if they guess wrong, can really screw them over, something no other Mega can boast. (Well besides Mewtwo, but there's no way he's getting lowered from Ubers anytime soon.) Zard X is also IMO, the best user of Tough Claws. Mega Aerodactyl gets it, but he dosent really have the movepool to use it, As he relies on the EdgeQuake Combo, both moves that don't make contact. The only other Fully Evolved Pokemon to get Tough Claws is Barbaracle, who's outclassed by Cloyster when it comes to Shell Smashing. Zard Y has the niche that it can override any Weather inducer save for Mega Tyranitar simply by Mega Evolving and Fire Moves coming off that 159 Sp. Attack in Sun are gonna hurt.
 
I'll admit to skimming over this thread for the most part but I think Clefable improved quite a lot. Monofairy isn't the best typing but the Life Orb set and weaknesses to only Steel and Poison is probably enough to raise it out of RU, if not bring it up into high RU, low UU. I don't know if got any new moves this generation but the new typing alone is what grabbed my attention.

Special mention to Granbull since it's another Pokemon that, with a simple switch of types, may gain some use. Monofairy and Play Rough off a 120 Base Attack stat and a somewhat reliable way to boost Speed in Quick Feet definitely makes Granbull a more potent threat than people would think. I'm thinking low-mid RU for the old dog. Granted it's not the best Pokemon to gain buffs but I think it's a pretty decent improvement.
 
I agree with farranpoison. As of Gen 6, there are a lot of winners. Poison and Steel gained more offensive presence, bugs gained the must-have new entry hazard, Fire gained a resistance, and all pokemon that fear dragons, fighting types and dark types suddenly have to fear the fairies. Sure, steel lost two critical resists in return for one new one, and dragon typing lost a lot of its allure, but these types could more than afford to take the hit.

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the Ice type is the biggest loser of gen 6. Sure, we got Freeze dry and stealth rock might not be the issue it used to be thanks to the buff to defog, but suddenly the go-to anti dragon coverage type isn't ice anymore. We have fairy now, a type that covers the incredibly threatening dragon, fighting and dark types. Sure, BoltBeam will continue to be a gold standard for neutral coverage, even more so for pokemon that get freeze dry, but Fairy makes for stiff competition offensively and completely outshines it defensively.

Furthermore, with the nerf to weather this generation, the strength disparity between hail and the other weather types has grown even more painfully obvious. While sun rain and sand have always provided a substantive benefit to their respective types immediately upon setting, hail simply does not damage ice types. Depending upon ability it may heal them or raise their evasion, but what abilities do the other weather types get? Doubled speed through chlorophyll, swift swim and sand rush. Increased damage output with solar power and sand force (on top of the damage modifications inherent to sun and rain). Finally a slew of boosted coverage moves like solar beam, thunder, hurricane, and synthesis. Hail gets Blizzard (and ice type weather ball if anyone figures that is even worthy of counting). When GF nerfed weather this generation, they nerfed all weather types as if they were all created equal. They most certainly were not, and the Ice type has consequently lagged behind.
 
Also Defog.

Chatter is situational, and not so useful IMO. You're better off just spamming Boomburst (neutral 140 > super effective 65). Legitimate Choice set:

Chatot @ Choice Scarf / Specs
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid / Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Encore / Chatter
- Defog / Chatter

I'll probably try it in UU.
Boomburst and Heat wave are incompatible.
 
I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the Ice type is the biggest loser of gen 6. Sure, we got Freeze dry and stealth rock might not be the issue it used to be thanks to the buff to defog, but suddenly the go-to anti dragon coverage type isn't ice anymore. We have fairy now, a type that covers the incredibly threatening dragon, fighting and dark types. Sure, BoltBeam will continue to be a gold standard for neutral coverage, even more so for pokemon that get freeze dry, but Fairy makes for stiff competition offensively and completely outshines it defensively.

Ice moves have a much wider distribution than Fairy, though, and there are very few non-fairies that often run fairy moves. (One example being M-Absol) Ice-types like Mamoswine and Ice Beam carriers like Starmie also still have a niche in checking dragons, that aren't easily countered by fairies (chief of those being Garchomp, and Dragonite to some extent)
 
Yeah, Scolipede was already a solid poke, but now it's the best BPer in the game (barring Blaziken, but yeah, good luck staying OU bud). To the point where it can potentially change the entire meta by adding a reliable speed boost strategy.

Not only Speed Boost, not only the attack buff, not only Poison's buff, but Defog making Stealth Rock infinitely easier to counter. And even if you DON'T want to Baton Pass, you've got a killer avenger and a fast hazard setter.

I think we say revenge killer.
 
I see a lot of people who write off Mega Abomasnow as being a terrible Pokemon, as well as questioning GF's integrity when designing it. I was one of those people once, but now I see that Mega Aboma is infact designed around double battles, where HailRoom used to be a common strategy.
Yes, it's terrible in singles, but saying GF were out of their minds when designing it is stupid. I really must've expected too much from Smogon.

I like mega abomasnow, but mega abamasnow does not like a new meta filled with more priority than ever. With fighting, steel and now even flying priority our snow yeti will face some hard times. He wasn't outspending much last gen anyway, but the fast pace offensive teams make it hard for him to play defensive, especially with 7 weaknesses.
 
I like mega abomasnow, but mega abamasnow does not like a new meta filled with more priority than ever. With fighting, steel and now even flying priority our snow yeti will face some hard times. He wasn't outspending much last gen anyway, but the fast pace offensive teams make it hard for him to play defensive, especially with 7 weaknesses.

Is Doubles that chock-full of priority, like Singles?
 
i think the most improved is mawile since he got mega evo with huge power and also got a new amazing type.
also charizard is now much better, kangaskhan too
 
Is Doubles that chock-full of priority, like Singles?
Doubles has a tendency to have even more priority than Singles, but however, Mega Abomasnow also has an easier time getting the Trick Room support it wants, and lets not forget it is much slower in its Mega form, which makes it even faster if the twisted dimensions are on the playing field.
 
Last edited:
i think the most improved is mawile since he got mega evo with huge power and also got a new amazing type.
also charizard is now much better, kangaskhan too

This ^ Mega Mawile is pretty devastating. Solid typing to boot.

Haven't used Mega Kangaskhan but from what I've seen and heard its one of the megas.
 
Most improved's gotta be Exploud.
1. It got STAB Boomburst to use with Scrappy, so now it KO's or puts a huge dent in virtually everything.
2. Sound moves blast through substitute. Not even Sub-Disable Gengar is safe from Exploud. Crushes Baton Pass teams from the very beginning.
3. Breloom gets hard-nerfed. One less thing to worry about. His absence alone increases Exploud's viability.
4. Weather-nerf = Less rain; more sand. Less rain = Less Keldeo. More sand = more Tyranitar/Hippowdon. More T-Tar/Hippo = More OHKO Low Kicks and Boombursts

Second most improved is Ditto.
1. It got no nerfs whatsoever. No move/ability/stat nerfs. Everything was for the better.
2. It can copy mega forms. "Nice +4 atk adaptability Lucario you got there. It'd be a shame if someone copied it and multiplied its speed by 1.5 and gave it the ability to sweep your whole team"
3. With the addition of Talon/Aegis/Grenny/Megas the
metagame has generally become hyper offensive. Ditto loves facing that because he just copies the boosts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I feel stoutland deserves some love. Better Attack, less weather opponents makes sand better. STAB Normal only resisted by steel, rock and ghost. Has play rough now to SE against his weakness: fighting. Crunch and Fire-fang to deal with the common gengar, scizor, jellicent, ferrotorn etc. Switch ins.

All hail the puppy :3
 
Most improved's gotta be Exploud.

3. Breloom gets hard-nerfed. One less thing to worry about. His absence alone increases Exploud's viability.
4. Weather-nerf = Less rain; more sand. Less rain = Less Keldeo. More sand = more Tyranitar/Hippowdon. More T-Tar/Hippo = More OHKO Low Kicks and Boombursts

Wait I don't understand

For starter Breloom is still damn good, despite supposedly getting "Hard Nerfed", it gained 90 BP Rock Tomb, Spore can still dismantle Fairy, and its utility with hard hitting Seed + Mach Punch is still amazing. I don't think we'll be seeing much less Breloom, in comparison to gen 5

As for the Weather nerf, I can easilly say more Tyranitar/Hippowdown = More Keldeo because Keldeo laughs at the former and Hydro Pumps the later. Not to mention Tyranitar is one of the better partner for Keldeo
 
Wait I don't understand

For starter Breloom is still damn good, despite supposedly getting "Hard Nerfed", it gained 90 BP Rock Tomb, Spore can still dismantle Fairy, and its utility with hard hitting Seed + Mach Punch is still amazing. I don't think we'll be seeing much less Breloom, in comparison to gen 5

As for the Weather nerf, I can easilly say more Tyranitar/Hippowdown = More Keldeo because Keldeo laughs at the former and Hydro Pumps the later. Not to mention Tyranitar is one of the better partner for Keldeo
In the 250+ XY OU battles I've done, I've yet to see >3 Keldeos and >5 Brelooms. The fact of the matter is that they are both outclassed by a lot of other pokemon.

It really doesn't matter if Breloom/Keldeo are still 'good' or not. What matters is that nobody is using them as much as Talon/Aegis/Megas/etc. Popularity is the only thing that affects a metagame. If nobody runs Breloom, or anything seen as 'good', then it isn't a really major component of the metagame unless there are a huge sum of people using it (there isn't).

Either way, it's hard to deny the Wallbreaking capabilities of Exploud's Boomburst and the new sound mechanics. It certainly got a better buff than said Breloom.
 
Most Improved? Mawile, Kangaskhan and Charizard are Pretty Much the only Contenders, all 3 were low NU (I dunno Kanga may have been high enough) and all 3 are going to be solid OU this gen. Mawile is a bit to Reliant on Sucker Punch but is pretty Beastly with the right support. Kangaskhan has a CB on all attacks, Multi Hit sub breaking capabilities on all attacks and impressive stats now and Charizard has soo much versatility. sure its only worth using his Megas but each Mega can run a variety of sets meaning you have to making multiple, game changing predictions in 1-2 turns that will cost you the game if you get them wrong. There may be better MegaMons than these 3 (Gengar and Lucario i'd say are the only two that give these 3 any real competition) but making such a large jump and being soo good equates to most improved to me.
 
Well, Exploud was pretty terrible to begin with, so yes he was nicely buffed but I really don't think he will see much more light.

One Pokemon who was indirectly buffed is Mandibuzz. Her only real buff are Overcoat to check solidly most Grass-mon and Defog, but the way the metagame shifts favors her. For starter, she is one of the only great defensive check to Gengar and M-Gengar, with her nice Ghost-resistance. She is also great to counter Aegislash, Alakazam, Breloom (tks Overcoat), Trevenant (well, I think he will disappear but still) and with some investments, to Hawlucha / Talonflame.
She has Foul Play for reliable damages, Taunt to avoid being a set-up fodder (or even counter stall herself !), U-Turn to gain momentum, Defog, Whirlwind, Roost etc... So yeah, she has some 4MSS and her typing is not exactly the best, but she is a great defensive pivot. The one thing I really regret is that she can't really run Brave Bird, which is really unfortunate given how good Flying-STAB is.

That's for non-mega Mon ofc. Kanga is such a beast.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top