What's the best coverage option for Mega Gardy after Hyper Voice? I want to run Calm Mind/Hyper Voice/Will-O-Wisp/Coverage but I really can't tell if the better type coverage of shadow ball compensates for not having a STAB pre-mega.
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Pokémon Gardevoir
- Thread starter Halcyon.
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Mega-Gard suffers too much from the 4-slot syndrome. 2 STABs are a must for a sweeper. You might run
- CM
- TBolt/Shadow Ball/Energy Ball
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic/Psyshock
It depends a lot on what your team needs. Energy Ball can 2-shot Rotom-W even if it's specially defensive so you might want to consider it. But Shadow Ball and TBolt are good coverages too so it comes back to your team. What do you need?
Personally I run 4 offensive - All out attacker on Mega-Gard because she is very fragile and +1 does not provide you enough damage to clear everything, also the existence of priorities is a problem to deal with. Just get 4 coverages and try to deal as much damage as possible. If you really want to boost her up, just baton pass +2 from espeon with a Reflect up and you are good to go. But this strat must be careful of Roar/Whirlwind/Dragontail.
this set has been working wonders for me recently:
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
timid, trace
252 sp.def, 252 speed, 4w/e
moon blast, psychic, thunderbolt, destiny bond
moon blast and psychic seems redundent but psychic covers poison which is one of gardevoir's main weaknesses while moon blast covers for dark which psychic cant hit, thunderbolt is for additional coverage while destiny bond is there to punish revenge killer steel types except for skizor, in which case switch to your talonflame and go nuts.
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
timid, trace
252 sp.def, 252 speed, 4w/e
moon blast, psychic, thunderbolt, destiny bond
moon blast and psychic seems redundent but psychic covers poison which is one of gardevoir's main weaknesses while moon blast covers for dark which psychic cant hit, thunderbolt is for additional coverage while destiny bond is there to punish revenge killer steel types except for skizor, in which case switch to your talonflame and go nuts.
I want to say that there would be no reason why game freak wouldn't let us megavolve our own transferred pokemon, as this would serve absolutely zero purpose other than to piss off its consumer base. But this is the company that refuses to let us nickname our own transferred pokemon, which accomplishes the same effect. What a massive disappointment it would be if I wouldn't be allowed to megavolve the shiny charizard I've had since sapphire.
But here's a point to consider: the guy posting this info is a hacker. Therefore it's easy to assume that all his transferred Pokemon are hacked, and so they would have no pentagon and thus would not be able to megavolve.
But here's a point to consider: the guy posting this info is a hacker. Therefore it's easy to assume that all his transferred Pokemon are hacked, and so they would have no pentagon and thus would not be able to megavolve.
The 2014 VGC format will only allow Pokemon obtained in X/Y, and according to nuggetbridge, the blue symbol means a Pokemon was obtained in X/Y. (http://nuggetbridge.com/news/pokemon-x-y-season-2-special-ladder-ruleset-announced/).
Therefore, it is *possible* that only blue-symbol Pokemon can mega-evolve. I'm not saying this is the case at all, I'm just saying the rumor isn't entirely baseless (and in the case of VGC play, it's actually true).
ok i dont want to dive into the topic of not being able to mega evolve transferred pokemon but since we still dont have pokebank and the competition only allows for kalos born pokemon i think it's worth disguising our current state of gardevoir and gardevoirs who doesn't get hyper voice. Anyways i have been breeding alot of ralts with egg moves and i can say that if the official tournament style is going to be 2v2, gardevoir will have a huge chance to shine and maybe not even mega form just normal gardy will do. here are just some of the really powerful options open to gardevoir: destiny bond, memento, encore, skill swap and disable. some less powerful but also notiable egg moves for ralts include: mean look, confuse ray, grudge. so here's a few sets based off these egg moves for gardevoir that i've been thinking off.
Special Wall dragon slayer
252HP, 252 sp.def, 4 speed
gardevoir Leftovers
moon blast/psychic/psy shock
will-o-wisp/confuse ray
encore
disable
since you place nothing into your def stat, you often will be able to disable someone's only coverage move against physical attackers or something locking them out of their options and if someone thinks they can set up on you a timly encore can force switches while will-o-wisp provides coverage against physical sweepers.
duo screens support
Gardevoir Light clay
252HP, 252 sp.def, 4 speed
reflect
light screen
wish/will-o-wisp/confuse ray
moon blast/psychic/psy shock/thunder wave
duo screen set some fun options you can also take thunder wave and confuse ray to be a dick and run para-fusion
speedy status support
Gardevoir @ gardevoirite/king's rock
252HP, 252Speeed, 4sp.def
thunder wave
will-o-wisp/moonblast/protect
confuse ray
wish
confused and paralized what will you do? switch out perhaps? if you opted for king's rock, you can fire off moon blasts and hope fro flinchas well
troll sweeper
gardevoir@gardevoirite
252 sp.atk, 252 speed, 4HP
destiny bond
thunder bolt
moon blast/focus blast
psychic/psyshock
bond the revenge killer. that's all I can say
Special Wall dragon slayer
252HP, 252 sp.def, 4 speed
gardevoir Leftovers
moon blast/psychic/psy shock
will-o-wisp/confuse ray
encore
disable
since you place nothing into your def stat, you often will be able to disable someone's only coverage move against physical attackers or something locking them out of their options and if someone thinks they can set up on you a timly encore can force switches while will-o-wisp provides coverage against physical sweepers.
duo screens support
Gardevoir Light clay
252HP, 252 sp.def, 4 speed
reflect
light screen
wish/will-o-wisp/confuse ray
moon blast/psychic/psy shock/thunder wave
duo screen set some fun options you can also take thunder wave and confuse ray to be a dick and run para-fusion
speedy status support
Gardevoir @ gardevoirite/king's rock
252HP, 252Speeed, 4sp.def
thunder wave
will-o-wisp/moonblast/protect
confuse ray
wish
confused and paralized what will you do? switch out perhaps? if you opted for king's rock, you can fire off moon blasts and hope fro flinchas well
troll sweeper
gardevoir@gardevoirite
252 sp.atk, 252 speed, 4HP
destiny bond
thunder bolt
moon blast/focus blast
psychic/psyshock
bond the revenge killer. that's all I can say
I've been having some success with a speedier variation of the first set (running protect):
This extra investment leaves Gardy at 266 speed, allowing her to more reliably cripple/murder some noteworthy threats including max speed variants of Breloom (positive), Gyarados (neutral and standard bulky DD [264 speed]), Mamoswine (neutral), Dragonite (neutral), Tyranitar (positive normal and mega [265]), along with neutral base 80s or positive 70s. 240 HP EVs is a leftovers number and the remaining points are dropped into defense.
Her stratagem is the same as the original support set: liberally pass along burns and wishes while abusing trace if possible. Protect synergizes with wish and is great for scouting or stalling.
Gardevoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 240 HP / 84 Def / 184 Spd
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Wish
- Protect
This extra investment leaves Gardy at 266 speed, allowing her to more reliably cripple/murder some noteworthy threats including max speed variants of Breloom (positive), Gyarados (neutral and standard bulky DD [264 speed]), Mamoswine (neutral), Dragonite (neutral), Tyranitar (positive normal and mega [265]), along with neutral base 80s or positive 70s. 240 HP EVs is a leftovers number and the remaining points are dropped into defense.
Her stratagem is the same as the original support set: liberally pass along burns and wishes while abusing trace if possible. Protect synergizes with wish and is great for scouting or stalling.
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Garde rather runs Maximum speed Timid with a Life Orb or Expert Belt (or Mega Stone if your Mega hasn't been taken yet) and just kills those threats imho. 252 SpA Moonblast 2HKO's standard T-Tar as well as OHKO'ing Dragonite if Multiscale is broken, Thunderbolt OHKO's Gyarados regardless, Energy Ball OHKO's Mamoswine unless it heavily invests in HP/SDef, etc.
But... that all being said, Gardevoir's problem isn't that it is bad. Not at all. The problem is Gengar. Despite their entirely different typing, they have pretty much the same offensive movepool, as well as that they share many support moves (Garde does have a larger support moveset though). Garde just doesn't have Poison moves whereas Gengar does not have Moonblast, but that is it if it comes to their offensive moves. And that is pretty bad news when Gengar is both stronger and faster than you are, and Gengar has an arguably better typing.
Gardevoir still has a niche over Gengar if you are weak to certain threats, but ehr, Gengar is just better.
In support sets, Garde is commonly outclassed left or right, Dual Screens is done better by Klefki (even though Gardevoir has Memento) while Wishpassing is done better by everything with a half-decent HP stat, etc.
Gengar can't switch into Gyarados, Jolteon, Heatran, Gastrodon, or Mamoswine Icicle Crashes. Gengar can't switch into Blissey/Starmie to cure itself from T-Waves or WoW (lol Natural Cure). Gengar can't abuse Regenerator from opponent's Meinshao. Gardevoir can trap Magnezone (although she can no longer switch into Flash Cannon due to Fairy typing)
Gengar doesn't straight up counter Salamence (lol Traced Intimidate), or wall Thundurus-T.
Trace + better defensive stats makes Gardevoir more of a "pivot". Gardevoir has a surprising amount of switch-in opportunities if you know how to abuse Trace.
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That is true, but Gardevoir can't take repeated attacks either, much like Gengar, and I've noticed both can check a lot of mons but rarely counter something unless it is locked into something they resist/are immune to.
I won't deny that Trace is an amazing defensive ability, yes, but so is Levitate, and both provide more than a few switch-ins and I abused both plenty of times. But Garde was really disappointing when I used it in Pokébank OU. Golem was the only thing from current NU that I used that shined pretty often, and Gardevoir needs a lot of support to function, but Garde can't go switching in because it is OHKO'd by random coverage moves especially on the physical side.
Also, note that Gardevoir can only switch into Gastrodon and Gyarados of that list. Heatran's Flash Cannon OHKO's, Mamoswine's Earthquake deals a goddamn lot and OHKO's most likely, Starmie 2HKO's with Hydro Pump but outspeeds (Garde is a check though due to T-Bolt/Energy Ball OHKO'ing in return). Gardevoir also is uncapable of touching Magnezone outside of Focus Miss or Hidden Power Ground, but Flash Cannon OHKO's Gardevoir.
Yeah, it is generally outclassed by pokemon who have the stats to use support moves well. But with a wide supportive movepool as that, it's a shame that it can't find a niche. Then you mention gengar. Gengar isn't just that fast special sweeper, it's also the forefather of a type that's notorious for being plagues to the enemy team. He harrasess, disrupts and whatnot. Seen as they have acces to similar moves, I was wondering if M-Gardevoir could still pull them off (trace would have an even funnier synergy though). The biggest issue in that, is that M-Gardevoir wants to cover every threat, and the disruptive sets of gengar work due to gengar being so fast. Still, since I can't think of any supportive sets at the moment, I want to discuss this possibility you made me think of:
"I'm a gengar"
Gardevoir (F) @ Gardevoirite
Trace
Timid Nature, 4 HP/252 Sp.Atk/252 Spd
-Substitute
-Disable
-Focus Blast/Shadow Ball
-Moon Blast
This set works to deal with mono-attacking walls, and annoying supereffective moves. Sub allows you to scout better, and also time that disable more effectively. Missing a focus miss is less punishing now. I think pain split might work against walls, with that terrible 68 base hp of Gardevoir, but I haven't seen it in action yet. Pain split would replace disable, and Gardevoir would run a life orb for pain split; whilst the disable set would like leftovers more (just saying in case you don't want to mega evolve). Since it is a common gengar set, it gives gardevoir some unpredictable threatening power. Other options are Destiny Bond, but Hypnosis is a better option imo. There's also WoW, but the thing is that gengar pulls these moves off better due to it's typing and mostly it's nice speed. Mega Gardevoir probably won't mind though.
Using her right now as a special tank, with will-o-wisp to hit physical switch ins (suck it, scizor). Trace is incredibly useful if used right, and she hits back decently with moonblast + a coverage move.
I swear, if she had a better recovery option than wish, she'd be soooo good.
That said, I still think she's viable with the right moveset, and her support moveset is huge.
It's not that she doesn't have good recovery, it's just that she can't use wish well with that base hp of hers
Well, since i'm using her as a special sponge, an instant recovery would really help.
Normal Gardevoir is a very good special tank/cleric. Trace is fantastic and a wonderful suprise ability for a defensive pokemon. You can trace things like Flash Fire or levitate for immunities, or horrifying offensive options liek adaptibilty and Parental Bond, or intimdate to reflect the attack drop back on something like Gyrados. Bringing Support Gardevoir inon a prankster is pretty awesome as well.
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But doesn't Khangaskan usually run sucker punch? I mean, priority sucker punch isn't something trace gardevoir wants to switch into.
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Nothing can switch into Sucker Punch, because Sucker Punch does nothing on the switch. Gardevoir would need to worry more about Return or Earthquake, rather than Sucker Punch, especially if she's running screens or WoW. Honestly though, Kangaskhan isn't something that she would switch in on and stay in on. If she wanted Parental Bond, they would either have to come in at the same time, keeping in mind that Kanga would already had to have evolved, or you would have to come in on a PuP or a Sucker Punch, and then switch out, but then, if Kanga uses PuP, and then foresees you switching out, she can potentially get four boosts in for free, and then you're pretty much screwed anyway. Trick-Scarf Gardevoir would be able to get a burn off first, though, but that's post-Bank, and Rotom-W tends to run that better.
Hmm…that's making me think, actually. Trick-Scarf might be viable, she's certainly more specially bulky than Rotom, although the lack of defensive bulk will hurt her, and she's a touch slower than Rotom, but she's stronger overall, and Trace would still be an option, especially given the aforementioned M-Kangaskhan situation, which, with good luck, she could come in, possibly burn, then get out, and leave her with a 50% power boost to her attacks for the rest of the battle. That would be something like 187.5/120 base Sp. Attack/Speed. Highly circumstantial, but still possible (says the paper).
Hmm…that's making me think, actually. Trick-Scarf might be viable, she's certainly more specially bulky than Rotom, although the lack of defensive bulk will hurt her, and she's a touch slower than Rotom, but she's stronger overall, and Trace would still be an option, especially given the aforementioned M-Kangaskhan situation, which, with good luck, she could come in, possibly burn, then get out, and leave her with a 50% power boost to her attacks for the rest of the battle. That would be something like 187.5/120 base Sp. Attack/Speed. Highly circumstantial, but still possible (says the paper).
Doesn't Trace reset when you switch out? Also you can't use Trick against MKang.
Yes, Trace doesn't copy an ability permanently for the rest of the battle. It's effects only last as long as Gardevoir is on the field. The next time it comes in, it copies the ability of whatever is currently out on the field. So unfortunately, you can't have Gardevoir copy one ability and abuse that for the rest of the match (unless you manage to keep Gardevoir on the field for all that time).
Alright, fair enough… I've never used Trace competitively anyway…
The Trick-Scarf idea wasn't to be used with M-Kanga per say, but rather, a way to allow a support Gardevoir to out-speed one. In my experience, choice items don't work out to well on support pokemon, unless there is a way to put it on something else, i.e., Trick.
The Trick-Scarf idea wasn't to be used with M-Kanga per say, but rather, a way to allow a support Gardevoir to out-speed one. In my experience, choice items don't work out to well on support pokemon, unless there is a way to put it on something else, i.e., Trick.
I'm about to test out
Gardevoir (F) @ Light Clay
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Healing Wish
- Light Screen
- Reflect
With Trace I believe she would make a neat Dual Screen pivot, and Healing Wish can revitalize a weakened sweeper so they can have a second chance to set-up! Not many teams can handle a Mega Lucario or Mega Khan (if she doesn't get the ban hammer) sweep two times over. :o
Gardevoir (F) @ Light Clay
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Healing Wish
- Light Screen
- Reflect
With Trace I believe she would make a neat Dual Screen pivot, and Healing Wish can revitalize a weakened sweeper so they can have a second chance to set-up! Not many teams can handle a Mega Lucario or Mega Khan (if she doesn't get the ban hammer) sweep two times over. :o
For a full offensive Gardevoir, I've been using Calm Mind/Shadow Ball/Moon Blast/Psyshock. Moon Blast will be switched for Hyper Voice after bank.
After a Calm Mind or two, she can OHKO just about anything, and Fairy/Ghost/Psychic is perfect coverage. Psyshock is for winning Calm Mind wars (loses very badly against Reuniclus, though) and also for Blissey and the like.
After a Calm Mind or two, she can OHKO just about anything, and Fairy/Ghost/Psychic is perfect coverage. Psyshock is for winning Calm Mind wars (loses very badly against Reuniclus, though) and also for Blissey and the like.
4 MSS? mhy? fairy + ghost has perfect coverage you don't have to use psychic.. what it hits? poison types? hyper voice have 175 BP when neutral just a bit weaker than SE 90 BP moves.
if there is a move that will help sweeping better than psychic then use it I don't see any reason why she has a 4MSS..
While Psychic may not be too useful on a full offensive Mega Gardevoir, Psyshock does has merit on the moveset, letting it the giant Pink Blobs of death for more damage then even a SE Focus Blast. Though it may not end up in the same tier, Psyshock can also OHKO Dragalge (It needing 252HP/252Def+ to even HOPE to live not sure what EVs Dragalge run).
Also technically Ghost/Fairy isn't perfect coverage, Pyroar exists, though even though I like Pyroar, it's doubtful it'd end up over RU in usage.
Also technically Ghost/Fairy isn't perfect coverage, Pyroar exists, though even though I like Pyroar, it's doubtful it'd end up over RU in usage.
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