well I am saying he can revenge kill a plus 2 lucario, and come in on a un-boosted spc lucario and kill him.
And as u said priority is not always on spc lucario
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Item Assault Vest
- Thread starter Magcargo
- Start date
- Status
And as u said priority is not always on spc lucario
No, I agree with you, its just that there is a chance that you might not KO with EQ and then fail when it uses Vacuum Wave to end you.
Alright,
Seismitoad, Sassy, Assault Vest
252 SPDF 252 HP 4ATT/4SPA
Classed: Staller - Status chance inflict - Tank
Ability- Poison touch
Set-
Surf
Sludge Wave
Drain Punch
Bounce
His ability and two of his moves have a chance of inflicting a status, In my opinion this makes him a great annoyer.
Drain punch allows him to get his health back, and surf is just a general stab.
Please leave feedback. I don't make any Custom Sets.
Seismitoad, Sassy, Assault Vest
252 SPDF 252 HP 4ATT/4SPA
Classed: Staller - Status chance inflict - Tank
Ability- Poison touch
Set-
Surf
Sludge Wave
Drain Punch
Bounce
His ability and two of his moves have a chance of inflicting a status, In my opinion this makes him a great annoyer.
Drain punch allows him to get his health back, and surf is just a general stab.
Please leave feedback. I don't make any Custom Sets.
Tentacruel isn't a good match for AV. It already gets worn down incredibly quickly even with Black Sludge, and it's often tasked with tanking hits from both ends of the spectrum. Remember, you need to reliably be tanking powerful special hits to make AV worth it, and Tentacruel's base SpD means weak special hits don't deal much to him anyway. Tentacruel would also greatly miss Toxic/TSpikes.
Actually, it does matter because Assault Vest must be better than Leftovers. On a Pokemon with high special defense, but low HP, it will take a lower percentage of damage from an average special hit, which makes Leftovers the superior option. For example:
252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Goodra: 118-140 (30.8 - 36.5%)
252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 78-94 (20.3 - 24.5%)
So after taking the hit, and then forcing Genesect out, Leftovers Goodra will regain 12.5% of its HP and be roughly even with AV Goodra in this scenario (it will actually be ahead by a few HP)! Of course the benefit of Leftovers is Goodra will continue to regain HP on every turn while AV Goodra is stuck at 75-80%.
Assault Vest is the better option when it turns 2HKO's into 3HKO's, because otherwise the passive recovery of Leftovers over multiple turns would make up the difference. Leftovers also helps with physical attacks, passive damage, and on turns when your opponent switches. AV does nothing in these cases. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't just slap AV on something without considering if Lefties is actually the better option!
Also, I'm sure most people are aware of this, but it's worth pointing out again that AV users greatly appreciate Cleric support since they lack Lefties.
(I'm currently looking into AV Bisharp)
o ok. its funny how much of a difference that 18 added def helps mega lucario.
So i am trying to think of other pokes who might be able to use av but might not be that ou viable (looking ahead to the lower tiers), how about escavalier, good attack stat solid on both def stats, and maybe could fell stinger for a boost (its just to bad he doesnt get a healing move)
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Before you posted this I quickly realised, In one of my later posts I describe Seismitoad,Seismitoad, Sassy, Assault Vest252 SPDF 252 HP 4ATT/4SPA
Classed: Staller - Status chance inflict - Tank
Ability- Poison touch
Set-
Surf
Sludge Wave
Drain Punch
Bounce
I know it also loses from the toxic. But I like this greatly? What are you opinions?
I'm aware that it needs to be better than Leftovers, but that simply doesn't matter to this; Since Leftovers gives you a percentage, not an absolute amount, it doesn't make a difference; if you have 200 HP and 100 SpD and let's say some attack deals 100 HP damage, percentage-wise, you lose 50% ; if you now double the SpD and half the HP, that means the same attack will deal now exactly half of before, meaning 50 HP, and your HP is 100 now, you're again at 50% damage. So, as said, whether the HP is high and SpD is low or the other way around doesn't matter, it just shouldn't BOTH be high, or else lefties are better.
So, I proceed with actual calcs:
One calc with 300 HP and 200 SpD:
0 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 204-240 (68 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest (custom): 136-162 (45.3 - 54%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO
One calc with 200 HP and 300 SpD:
0 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD (custom): 136-162 (68 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest (custom): 90-108 (45 - 54%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO
There is a very small variation due to the fact that you can only lose natural numbers of HP, but otherwise, it's exactly the same, no matter which one is low and which is high; In both cases, the AV-Vest is better than lefties to the same degree.
Of course, you're still right that one should always considers leftovers, too! It just isn't relevant to this question.
The vest itself gives you enough special defense as is, put the rest in HP and Atk, you'll need the power. Replace Surf with Scald, the power difference is negligible and burns make you bulky overall. And you definitely want STAB Earthquake, possibly Power Up Punch as well or Knock Off. It can work, it has good typing and Water Absorb. Swampert has better overall stats though and some better moves, albeit no Drain Punch.
Swampert: 100/110/90/85/100/60
Seismetoad: 105/95/75/85/75/84
Swampert: 100/110/90/85/100/60
Seismetoad: 105/95/75/85/75/84
that's a great idea, I suppose you were replying to me? But besides I think that is a good class and I think we have worked something out which could possibly make its way into OU If its used to an extent. It could also counter some other things I suppose.
You're right, sorry I misinterpreted your OP!
Seismitoad isn't a bad choice by any means, I've looked into it myself actually. If you were to use AV on it, you should add Knock Off and Scald to its attacks as they are excellent choices for Seismitoad, outclassing Surf or Sludge Wave/Bounce. Something like:
Seismitoad @ Assault Vest
- Scald
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
There are still a few issues, the biggest one is that it won't be able to set Stealth Rock with AV, which is a big niche for Seismitoad. Seismitoad also lacks power and will struggle to hurt things in OU. It's one of those Pokemon that will be very useful in the lower tiers though, just like last gen!
Clawitzer is perfect for this. I've been running him with TR support and Assault vest along with:
Water Pulse
Sludge Bomb
Dark Pulse
Aura Sphere
And literally nothing stands in my way. It can take a physical hit or two, but specially (unless its Super effective) It can take a few more hits.
Water Pulse
Sludge Bomb
Dark Pulse
Aura Sphere
And literally nothing stands in my way. It can take a physical hit or two, but specially (unless its Super effective) It can take a few more hits.
what ev spread do you use?
Quiet Nature
104 Hp/ 252 Spatk / 152 SpDef
He isn't a tank, I understand that, but making him bulkier allows him more use.
I was just asking b/c I think its an interesting idea using av on him since his ability adds power to his already decent spc attack stat. I am not sold on using this guy in ou, but I could see him being real solid in UU wearing a assault vest
Torterra@Assault Vest
Shell Armor
Adamant 252 HP / 252 At / 4 Df
~ Earthquake
~ Stone Edge
~ Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
~ Crunch/Superpower/Iron Head/Leaf Storm
I honestly don't expect Torterra to be OU material, but I just hate seeing any of the starters seem unviable. 95/105/85 are good defenses indeed and with 109 Atk and really strong BP moves he can certainly take something out that it otherwise wouldn't. Heatran will be surprised when you brush off a Lava Plume and KO back with Earthquake. Although, Grass/Ground just doesn't prove as good a typing as one might hope defensively. Being weak to Fire, Ice, Flying and Bug in this meta is a death sentence. Grass and Ground STABs however are terrific hitting Fire, Water, Electric, Ground, Rock, Poison and Steel. Stone Edge for EdgeQuake, and Crunch is a nice surprise for Gengar and other Ghosts. Torterra DOES at least have advantages in being immune to Thunder Wave and Spore/Leech Seed and resisting EdgeQuake himself, being a good switch into the type of mon that rely on that combo. If we're lucky GameFreak has mega stones in the works for all the starters, they deserve it. Speaking of...
Emboar@Assault Vest
Reckless
Adamant/Jolly 252 At / 4 Df / 252 Spd
Adamant 252 At / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Flare Blitz
~ Head Smash
~ Wild Bolt
~ Flame Charge/Superpower/Hammer Arm
Emboar has HP and At in spades, kind of similar to Conkeldurr, only with worse Df. 110/65/65 means an Assault Vest can give you just the leeway to need to absolutely nuke something with a Reckless boosted Flare Blitz/Wild Bolt/Head Smash. If you prompt a swith then Flame Charge might give you just the speed you need to surprise and threaten lots of would be physical walls. You actually have a fair list of resistances like Fire, Grass, Bug, Dark, Steel and Ice giving you lots of good switch ins, Scizor being a prime example, or a Sableye that can't WoW you and Taunt won't do anything. Also don't expect to stay OU, but this item really gives certain pokes like these their best shot.
Samurott@Assault Vest
Shell Armor/Torrent
Adamant 252 HP / 252 At / 4 Spd
~ Aqua Jet
~ Dragon Tail
~ Knock Off
~ Icy Wind/Superpower/Waterfall/Megahorn/Scald
Lol, starter Assault Vest FWG core anyone? Samurott again has those spread out mediocre stats where he doesn't have enough time to set up, but would really appreciate the SpD boost since his attacks more than the other two have the most diverse utility. Aqua Jet for revenging with the potential for Torrent boosts, Dragon Tail for phazing would be set-up sweepers, Knock Off for... Knock Off, and then a power move or even Icy Wind to lower speed of switch ins. Samurott has the benefit of being able to go mixed which is always dangerous.
Well that was fun. I seriously love finding mon to use this item. Now to really finish that final paper for class...
Entei is a new good user of assault vest considering he now has sacred fire, making investing in physical defense not as necessary and his support movepool is very small/non existant so he doesnt mind losing the ability to not attack (sacred fire, extremespeed, coverage moves)
Gigalith@Assault Vest
Sand Force
252 HP / 252 At / 4 SpD
~ Earthquake
~ Stone Edge
~ Iron Head
~ Explosion/Superpower
Holy hell, why is this not a thing yet!? 6_9 Gigalith has a mighty 135 At stat and gets three of his moves boosted in Sand, so free Life Orb damage right there, on top of the SpD bonus from Assault Vest AND being a Rock type! And his SpD isn't even that bad to start! His defenses are 85/130/80. So what we end up with is an interesting amalgamation of AV Rhyperior and Regirock, boasting far better special bulk than Rhyperior with superior mono-Rock typing and much better At than Regirock, with Sandstorm pulling a double buff. The downside is yeah, he's outspeeding absolutely nobody with 25 Spd but who cares? This is the definition of a bulky pivot, able to switch into attacks like crazy and threaten a ton of things.
252+ Atk Sand Force Gigalith Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias in sand: 262-309 (71.97 - 84.89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
+1 4 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Gigalith in sand: 94-112 (25.13 - 29.94%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
-1 252+ Atk Sand Force Gigalith Stone Edge vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados in sand: 390-458 (110.48 - 129.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO Intimidate? Lol, nice try.
+1 248 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gigalith: 306-360 (81.81 - 96.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Can still switch into a Dragon Dance and OHKO from full.
252+ Atk Sand Force Gigalith Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-B in sand: 476-564 (121.73 - 144.24%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gigalith: 288-339 (77 - 90.64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
56+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Gigalith in sand: 186-222 (49.73 - 59.35%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Sand Force Gigalith Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W in sand: 226-267 (74.58 - 88.11%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Gigalith Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 290-342 (95.7 - 112.87%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Gigalith Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 290-342 (95.7 - 112.87%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock ---- If you are at about 75% health Stone Edge has to crit to OHKO, but an Explosion will do it if you play your cards right.
+2 252 Atk Sky Plate Talon Flame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gigalith: 136-161 (36.36 - 43.04%) -- guaranteed 3HKO -- so you can safely switch into a +2 Brave Bird and still come out on top. I think you know how the attack will look lol.
252+ Atk Sand Force Gigalith Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegeslash Shield Form in sand: 226-266 (69.75 - 82.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sand Force Gigalith Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegeslash Sword Form in sand: 554-654 (170.98 - 201.85%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Aegeslash Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gigalith: 254-302 (67.91 - 80.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aegeslash Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gigalith: 192-226 (51.33 - 60.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Gigalith in sand: 314-372 (83.95 - 99.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Oooh, just barely.
And you know what I didn't notice until the Keldeo calcs? Gigalith apparently had 70 SpD back in Gen V, which got buffed to 80, which the calculator didn't account for the time and I'm not doing those over again but yeah, just a bit bulkier specially than the calcs indicate. It has really good bulk, I seriously want to test this guy out with a Smooth Rock Hippowdon, he could be beast.
I think everyone is missing the point of this item. Whats with every mon and its mother being suggested to hold it when they simply put, dont give a dam about it? You need to look at what kind of mon would benefit from assault vest and not simply randomly slapping it on anything. Conkeldurr is the prime example of this. Can recover its health and deal huge damage at the same time, has excellent coverage and power allowing it to be a huge threat without needing items or boosting moves, doesnt care about most status and has its low sp def fixed, making it nearly impossible to kill. Why would i give it to emboar when its going to kill itself in 3 or so turns anyway, why would i give it to samurott when it depends so much on swords dance to be an actual threat, why would i give it to gigalith/regirock/rhyperior when tyranitar completely outclasses all of them? Like come on, i actually saw mandibuzz and volcarona being mentioned, which is reaching borderline parody levels. Assault vest inst an item that anyone can use succesfully. You need to be able to maintain a powerful offensive presence on their own, you need to have a decent defensive typing or an already high special bulk to take advantage of the boost and preferably have some sort of indirect recovery (wish support from team mates, regenerator etc.). So far the only things i see that fit the bill are conkeldurr, tornadus-t, tangrowth, slowbro and goodra.
Conkeldurr needs to go above God Tier. The man deserves his own tier.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battletower-pokebankoubeta-215442
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battletower-pokebankoubeta-215442
If you could get AV Gogoat out on Grassy Terrain it might be fun - Grassy Terrain heals grass types passively like leftovers and strengthens the damage of grass attacks (i.e. Horn Leech which you can use for further recovery). Gogoat's ability Grass Pelt raises its defense on Grassy Terrain - so with AV in toe you transform its mediocre 123/62/81 defenses to 123/93/121, certainly not too shabby.
It has viable 100/97 attack stats, and decent coverage (EQ, Wild Charge which I know is a bit dubious with shaky recovery, Payback to work with its low speed) but of course the star would be the Grassy Terrain boosted Horn Leech (I'm guessing a further x1.5 boost on top of the STAB boost like rain or sun). What would majorly hold it back is that it can't learn U-Turn to go back to the Grassy Terrain user when the time is up (it only last for 5 turns), however I'm pretty sure the defense boost you get is permanent (it's described as "raising the defense stat in Grassy Terrain" rather than "doubling defense in Grassy Terrain"). Not OU worthy, but could be fun elsewhere.
It has viable 100/97 attack stats, and decent coverage (EQ, Wild Charge which I know is a bit dubious with shaky recovery, Payback to work with its low speed) but of course the star would be the Grassy Terrain boosted Horn Leech (I'm guessing a further x1.5 boost on top of the STAB boost like rain or sun). What would majorly hold it back is that it can't learn U-Turn to go back to the Grassy Terrain user when the time is up (it only last for 5 turns), however I'm pretty sure the defense boost you get is permanent (it's described as "raising the defense stat in Grassy Terrain" rather than "doubling defense in Grassy Terrain"). Not OU worthy, but could be fun elsewhere.
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Conkeldurr is probably the best user, Slowbro is really great too. The starter trio was admittedly just for fun. Tyranitar makes good use of AV but doesn't require it, he has a ton of viable move sets. Regirock has the distinction of having a far superior Df stat and defensive typing, having far fewer weaknesses and none of them 4x, as well as access to Drain Punch. AV is a great item on Regirock because it increases most of the required turns it would take to KO it with certain special attacks, allowing it to live and get a kill it otherwise wouldn't, all while maintaining beast Df and access to offensive healing. AV helps bulky pivots and the multiplicative benefit from SpD boost for Rock types in Sand make it a natural pairing. Why use Gigalith? Cause if you have a Hippowdon it makes a natural pairing where sand+AV vest is like having Amnesia and recoiless Life Orb for free. I wouldn't advocate using these mon outside of sand support however, but its a great item for Regi and Gigalith particularly in those circumstances.
And as me and a few others mentioned AV is begins to get less beneficial the higher your SpD stat already is because Leftovers begins to mitigate more health loss over time very quickly.
I definitely have to agree with Jaroda, I think Conkeldurr is the best user of assault vest found so far and is a good indicator of the qualities it takes to be a successful tank with this item.
I forget on what page and who made the comment, please forgive me for not giving proper credit, but somewhere in the middle of this thread the utility of assault vest as a pseudo focus sash was brought up and that is another aspect of this item I am interested in. Allowing a pokemon with enough firepower such as hydreigon or kyurem-b to last one hit it couldn't could lead to unlocking the opponents offense and taking the wind out of their sails. Knocking something like greninja, latios, latias, keldeo or other fast special attackers out early can be devestating.
One pokemon I have not seen discussed, and I tried reading the whole thread, is Mew. With such a vast movepool it may seem a waste but Mew has so many options I could see it getting away with four attacking moves on either side of the spectrum. With an assault vest mew could have the potential to have bulk, immediate hitting power and utility, something it usually divides into different sets.
The moves I'm most interested in are:
Scald
Giga Drain (I could see these being a nice pairing, as scald could lure in Rotom)
Ice Beam/Frost Breath
Charge Beam
Volt Switch
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Psyshock
Aura Sphere
and on the physical side:
Knock Off
U-turn
Power-Up Punch
Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Flame Charge
Elemental Punches
EdgeQuake
Dragon Tail
Superpower
And I'm sure I'm missing others with potential. Not sure, maybe Mew is too underwhelming but with access to so many things I don't see the reason to not play around with the idea. With the unpredictability of Mew I could see it getting some free kills with the right coverage. More likely though he'll be the kind of mon that softens things up. Synchronize is also interesting to me for it's ability to scare away many status users from statusing it. With cleric support it could even be an interesting switch to Rotom given mew runs a special set. Burning it and then hitting with the giga drain the Rotom player won't see coming could put it under a lot of pressure. This seems like a nice parallel to Conkeldurr, as status is a good way to fight many other assault vest users.
I'm not sure about the ev's, but it would be nice to avoid the 3hko from greninja's lo dark pulse or an lo gengar. Not sure if speed is necessary, but it could be for a few threats. Anyways, I know this is more of a loose idea and not an actual set, but I was hoping it would spark some interest in theorymoning
I forget on what page and who made the comment, please forgive me for not giving proper credit, but somewhere in the middle of this thread the utility of assault vest as a pseudo focus sash was brought up and that is another aspect of this item I am interested in. Allowing a pokemon with enough firepower such as hydreigon or kyurem-b to last one hit it couldn't could lead to unlocking the opponents offense and taking the wind out of their sails. Knocking something like greninja, latios, latias, keldeo or other fast special attackers out early can be devestating.
One pokemon I have not seen discussed, and I tried reading the whole thread, is Mew. With such a vast movepool it may seem a waste but Mew has so many options I could see it getting away with four attacking moves on either side of the spectrum. With an assault vest mew could have the potential to have bulk, immediate hitting power and utility, something it usually divides into different sets.
The moves I'm most interested in are:
Scald
Giga Drain (I could see these being a nice pairing, as scald could lure in Rotom)
Ice Beam/Frost Breath
Charge Beam
Volt Switch
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Psyshock
Aura Sphere
and on the physical side:
Knock Off
U-turn
Power-Up Punch
Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Flame Charge
Elemental Punches
EdgeQuake
Dragon Tail
Superpower
And I'm sure I'm missing others with potential. Not sure, maybe Mew is too underwhelming but with access to so many things I don't see the reason to not play around with the idea. With the unpredictability of Mew I could see it getting some free kills with the right coverage. More likely though he'll be the kind of mon that softens things up. Synchronize is also interesting to me for it's ability to scare away many status users from statusing it. With cleric support it could even be an interesting switch to Rotom given mew runs a special set. Burning it and then hitting with the giga drain the Rotom player won't see coming could put it under a lot of pressure. This seems like a nice parallel to Conkeldurr, as status is a good way to fight many other assault vest users.
I'm not sure about the ev's, but it would be nice to avoid the 3hko from greninja's lo dark pulse or an lo gengar. Not sure if speed is necessary, but it could be for a few threats. Anyways, I know this is more of a loose idea and not an actual set, but I was hoping it would spark some interest in theorymoning
- Status