Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[rachet67]

There's a reason Choice band Crobat didn't receive an OU analysis last gen. First of all its attack is pretty pathetic for a banded pokemon. The only reason talonflame can use band is because its high power stab moves (brave bird and flare blitz) synergize very well together and allow it to get through pretty much anything not rock type or heatran. Talonflame also has gale wings, which allows it to outspeed scarf users faster than it.

Crobat on the other hand, has cross poison as its other stab move. This doesn't synergize at all with brave bird, and ensures that neary any steel or rock pokemon can wall it. In addition, cross poison has low bp, and an electric type such as thundurus i can easily check it. Inflitrator doesn't make it viable by any means. As someone already said, there are pokemon who can take advantage of that ability much better. Your better off phazing than trying to put something to sleep with a 60% accurate move. Its only niche in OU really lies in having defog and a very fast taunt.

 

[Pipotchi]

There is a reason he didnt get an analysis last gen, and thats because he was completely outperformed. But you can't say that being able to use brave bird off an equivalent of a 160 atk (due to choice band) on a 75% hp opponent isnt useful or unique.. Yes he doesn't like steel types, but he's not trying to beat steels. I can't think of many ou steel types who like to put up substitutes, since they dont have instant recovery. If an opponent is switching out despite being behind a sub and already giving up 25% of their hp, and you chip the steel switch-in for 10% then I wouldn't call that a loss seeing as it dealt with the substitute.
As for hypnosis, it doesn't have a negative priority and like I said, if this is your last resort then you're likely dealing with a pokemon with some sort of damage boost. Having 130 speed means you can sleep them before they get an attack on you. Its not reliable but it is something the pokemon is capable of doing.
Crobat's attack is higher than talonflame's too. I'm not saying its as good or better than talonflame as a pokemon, because that would be suggesting it should be in the A+ tier. I just think it should be higher than C, perhaps B-. This tier ranking system is kinda messy and subjective but somewhere around there would be appropriate I think.
Also, which pokemon makes objectively better use of infiltrator and gets used in the same role? Noivern resides at a lower speed, and has problems with draco meteor forcing it to switch out and not to mention the arguably better frisk.
Crobat can take on two completely different roles as a stallbreaker pokemon or choice band. The additional versatility should affect his ranking too, and if one set has an ou niche and must therefore be considered when constructing a team, having the option of doing something completely different to the expected role should be considered a good thing, like choice band ferrothorn or specs jellicent last gen

 

[Pdizzle]

I nominate amoonguss in the B- tier. it is a very situational pokemon that can act as the team sponge. I currently run this set.

Amoonguss (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 52 SAtk / 116 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

She is a strong counter to rotom and thanks to regenerator she can survive throughout the battle. She is also great at getting momentum back as she can take a hit and spore the pokemon. She is great paired up with talonflame or rotom as amoonguss acts as a great lure for pokemon that wall him like mega venusaur or mandibuzz. She isn't the best, but is suprisingly bulky and deserves a mention.

 

[RP2865]

I nominate amoonguss in the B- tier. it is a very situational pokemon that can act as the team sponge. I currently run this set.

Amoonguss (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 52 SAtk / 116 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

She is a strong counter to rotom and thanks to regenerator she can survive throughout the battle. She is also great at getting momentum back as she can take a hit and spore the pokemon. She is great paired up with talonflame or rotom as amoonguss acts as a great lure for pokemon that wall him like mega venusaur or mandibuzz. She isn't the best, but is suprisingly bulky and deserves a mention.

A few things to note:
1. Spore has no effect against poisoned, burned, or paralyzed pokemon. One time an opponent used Spore on a Breloom?, and I switched in a toxiced togekiss which took care of it.
2. This set has no strong moves.
3. Heatran destroys this and sets up rocks/taunt/torment/magma storm/will o wisps
3. How is this set a lure for Mega Venusaur? Mega Venasaur destroys it. It is immune to spore and Thick Fat makes HP fire do less than sludge bomb. Mega Venasaur 4HKOs max SPDef invested Amoongus with sludge bomb and is faster while amoonguss' sludge bomb (most powerful move) is a 5HKO.
4. Mandibuzz can hold a lum berry...
4 Atk Mandibuzz Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 218-260 (50.4 - 60.1%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
(^= 85.2% of certain death)
Just consider these. Good luck!

 

[zachmac]

1. Spore has no effect against poisoned, burned, or paralyzed pokemon. One time an opponent used Spore on a Breloom?, and I switched in a toxiced togekiss which took care of it.

Has that stopped pokemon from running sleeping moves? Ever?

2. This set has no strong moves.

On the other hand, walls don't always need to be powerful.

Though another status move could help make up for that, like Toxic or Stun Spore. Probably over HP Fire or Clear Smog.

3. Heatran destroys this and sets up rocks/taunt/torment/magma storm/will o wisps

Heatran also completely destroys Scizor and Genesect.

Your point?

3. How is this set a lure for Mega Venusaur? Mega Venasaur destroys it. It is immune to spore and Thick Fat makes HP fire do less than sludge bomb. Mega Venasaur 4HKOs max SPDef invested Amoongus with sludge bomb and is faster while amoonguss' sludge bomb (most powerful move) is a 5HKO.

This is true.

4. Mandibuzz can hold a lum berry...

Why would you ever do this? It's a wall, not a set up sweeper....and from my experience, it generally uses Foul Play or Knock Off. It's attack isn't really impressive, so Brave Bird could be a bit of a waste at times.

Besides that, Overcoat already protects it from Spore. Never use Lum Berry Mandibuzz. Always give it leftovers.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Well zachmac beat me to analyzing that argument lol.

A more effective argument for Amoongus would bring up stuff like Rotom-W, Landorus-I, and just about every bulky water type ever that it can wall with ease. Also amoongus appreciates that synthesis is basically fully reliable recovery this gen.

 

[AwesomeFennekin]

(Mostly) Fairies are about to get opinionized by me.
Togekiss- Somewhere between A(Highest) B+(Lowest). Togekiss was a Paraflinch mon, and nothing you wanted to tangle with. Back in Gen V, however, it was Slammed (Pun, I guess) to the ground by dragons, mainly outrage users (due to not so well physical defense). However, with the fairy type, Togekiss is no longer Slammed by Dragons, one of the things that made Togekiss UU in Gen V, and it can counter its past counters. It's also now an effective counter to Hydreigon with STAB Dazzling Gleam. However, it can now be countered by one of the Pokemon it could (Kinda) counter, Scizor. However, it gets Flamethrower/Fire Blast, and can kill faint it in one hit. Gengar can counter it, even without Gengarite, but Togekiss can take a hit from it, and use T-Wave on it, and start the Paraflinching. Ferrothorn can wall Togekiss (Like it did in Gen V), but only if it didn't set up Nasty Plot, and doesn't carry Aura Sphere. The only true counters I see are Metagross and Jirachi (I will get to Jirachi later).
Okay, Togekiss was longer than I though. :l

Florges: B. With great Sp Attack, Huge amount of Sp Defense, and a half decent Speed, I feel as if Florges is pretty good. It also packs several Grass moves, and Solar Beam, making it pretty good for sun teams. However, it has SEVERELY low Defense, and needs to be wary of Physical Poison and Steel types, mainly Scizor. As long as you give it Timid+252 speed, as well as Psychic, you should be able to deal with most Poison types, but not Steel types. Which drops Florges down to B.

Slurpuff: C. I find Slurpuff to be very underrated, as it has good Attack AND Sp Attack. It is, however, mainly built to be a bulky Special Attacker. It has many Special moves to counter its weaknesses. Flamethrower to counter Steel Types, Psychic to counter Poison Types, and Surf to counter Fire types. To make up for its slightly lackluster speed stat, it gets Unburden as its HA. Just slap a Sitrus Berry on it, and you can be a sweeper in no time. Sweet Veil is kinda useful. It prevents it and its allies from falling asleep, though while I don't know for sure, Sleep Clause could hinder its usefulness.

Jirachi: A-. Thanks to the Fairy Type, Jirachi got an edge on the offensive side. With Serene Grace Iron Head, and access to T-Wave, Jirachi is the Steel/Psychic type version of Togekiss. However, thanks to the nerfing of the Steel Type, it gains 2 weaknesses, Ghost and Dark. The nerfing of the steel type hindered Jirachi's usefulness as a supporter. However, it can still be a great attacker, and a Steel/Psychic type Paraflinch mon. Be wary of Ghost and Dark types.

Last but not least:

Klefki: B. You think a Key Chain Pokemon would be useless (Here's lookin' at you genwunners), but no. Instead, its the Steel type alternative to Whimsicott for a Prankster Fairy type. With access to Spikes for hazards, Toxic/T-Wave to put a Status on the opponent, Swagger for confusion and Foul Play setups, and Foul Play to deal massive damage after using Swagger, and more, Klefki is a GREAT Prankster Abuser. It can use an All Out Attacker set with Magician, but I find Klefki to be a better supporter/troll than anything else. However, Hydreigon can counter it, however, it gets Play Rough. Specially Based Fire types are a way to go for countering this Key Prankster. But when you see one on my team; JINGLE JINGLE JINGLE, TIME FOR A TROLL STEEL TYPE.

 

[Josh Morales]

Florges: B. With great Sp Attack, Huge amount of Sp Defense, and a half decent Speed, I feel as if Florges is pretty good. It also packs several Grass moves, and Solar Beam, making it pretty good for sun teams. However, it has SEVERELY low Defense, and needs to be wary of Physical Poison and Steel types, mainly Scizor. As long as you give it Timid+252 speed, as well as Psychic, you should be able to deal with most Poison types, but not Steel types. Which drops Florges down to B.

Florges was a B with Sylveon but many pages back we came to the conclusion that Florges is almost 100% outclassed by Sylveon, thus we removed it from the list entirely.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I'm of the opinion that Slurpuff is really bad. While Unburdern sets sound nice on paper, Slurpuff's all round mediocre stats are what really kill it imo. Slurpuff is just too weak and slow without any boosts, and needs the Unburden boost to pose any sort of threat. Even get, any priority absolutely wrecks Slurpuff, which is common on a lot of teams. This is especially when you realize Slurpuff is manhandled by both Scizor and Talonflame, which are both rather common. It's also hindered by phazers like Heatran and Hippowdon, of which from my laddering experiences both are pretty common, and both of those can take on either one of the two possible sets. If I wanted a Fairy to use, I'd rather use something actually OU viable like Mawile, Sylveon, Togekiss, etc.

Overall, I feel Slurpuff is a very mediocre Pokemon and doesn't deserve to be ranked at all. In addition, it's not even getting an analysis, something to consider.

 

[Josh Morales]

I'm of the opinion that Slurpuff is really bad. While Unburdern sets sound nice on paper, Slurpuff's all round mediocre stats are what really kill it imo. Slurpuff is just too weak and slow without any boosts, and needs the Unburden boost to pose any sort of threat. Even get, any priority absolutely wrecks Slurpuff, which is common on a lot of teams. This is especially when you realize Slurpuff is manhandled by both Scizor and Talonflame, which are both rather common. It's also hindered by phazers like Heatran and Hippowdon, of which from my laddering experiences both are pretty common, and both of those can take on either one of the two possible sets. If I wanted a Fairy to use, I'd rather use something actually OU viable like Mawile, Sylveon, Togekiss, etc.

Overall, I feel Slurpuff is a very mediocre Pokemon and doesn't deserve to be ranked at all. In addition, it's not even getting an analysis, something to consider.

Slurpuff is also not getting an OU analysis and pokemon that aren't getting one aren't going to be ranked, as has been said many times.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Togekiss is already in B+, and klefki has been discussed at great length.
Jirachi keeps coming up briefly, the consensus seems to be that it's all right but the steel nerf hit it hard, as did the weather nerf and electric types' new immunity to paralysis.

 

[acestriker19]

Slurpuff is also not getting an OU analysis and pokemon that aren't getting one aren't going to be ranked, as has been said many times.

If you're talking about a preview analysis it does have one: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/completed-slurpuff.3492397/.
If you were to look at this thread it has a niche with its Belly Drum + Unburden combo which means it can get x4 atk and x2 speed in one turn. Not saying that its good but it does have a niche and an OU analysis so it should be ranked, probably C- IMO, but I haven't ever used one or faced one so I can't say much else.

 

[Magnemite]

If you're talking about a preview analysis it does have one: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/completed-slurpuff.3492397/.
If you were to look at this thread it has a niche with its Belly Drum + Unburden combo which means it can get x4 atk and x2 speed in one turn. Not saying that its good but it does have a niche and an OU analysis so it should be ranked, probably C- IMO, but I haven't ever used one or faced one so I can't say much else.

It doesn't matter if it has a preview. Every Gen VI Pokemon got a preview, even Dedenne. Slurpuff doesn't have an actual OU analysis, so it can't be ranked.

Anyway, I think B- seems like a reasonable place for Amoonguss. It has two major issues: competition from Mega Venusaur and tendency to be setup fodder. However, it certainly has benefits over Mega Venusaur. For starters, Amoonguss doesn't use up a team's only mega slot. It can not only use Black Sludge, but it also has Regenerator over Mega Venusaur, which gives it quite a bit of longevity. Mega Venusaur lacks passive healing outside of Leech Seed, making it susceptible to being worn down, while Amoonguss has so much passive healing that it is very difficult to wear down and doesn't even need to use a valuable moveslot on Synthesis, which gives it room to use something like Stun Spore. It also has the distinct advantage of its sleep-inducing move having perfect accuracy, letting it cripple the inevitable Talonflame switch-in 100% of the time as opposed to Sleep Powder's 75% of the time. Most of the Pokemon Mega Venusaur can wall are also walled nicely by Amoonguss, which can in some cases do a better job at walking certain Pokemon multiple times thanks to Regenerator. However, Mega Venusaur outclasses Amoonguss in every other way, particularly in terms of stats, so the only reason to use Amoonguss is for these reasons. As such, B or B- rank seems like a pretty good place for it.

 

[Pdizzle]

A few things to note:
1. Spore has no effect against poisoned, burned, or paralyzed pokemon. One time an opponent used Spore on a Breloom?, and I switched in a toxiced togekiss which took care of it.
2. This set has no strong moves.
3. Heatran destroys this and sets up rocks/taunt/torment/magma storm/will o wisps
3. How is this set a lure for Mega Venusaur? Mega Venasaur destroys it. It is immune to spore and Thick Fat makes HP fire do less than sludge bomb. Mega Venasaur 4HKOs max SPDef invested Amoongus with sludge bomb and is faster while amoonguss' sludge bomb (most powerful move) is a 5HKO.
4. Mandibuzz can hold a lum berry...
4 Atk Mandibuzz Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 218-260 (50.4 - 60.1%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
(^= 85.2% of certain death)
Just consider these. Good luck!

First of all, no need to get so hostile about this. I've been using amoonguss on my team and I am currently ranked 2220 on pokemonshowdown on the account pdizzle alt1 (just started laddering 2 days ago after making my pokebank ou team). Furthermore, the arguments just stated are completely invalid as zachmac pointed out. I didn't say that amoonguss is suppose to be a mixed wall, set up sweeper and heatran destroyer. of course heatran stops it completely. every pokemon has its counter. even genesect cannot get past heatran.

now moving on, the idea of amoonguss being a lure, isn't for him to have mega venesaur(or even regular venesaur) or mandibuzz come in and for amoonguss to kill it, but as I said, when paired up with pokemon like rotom or talonflame, amoonguss can act as a lure for these pokemon to come in and for u to double switch out and gain momentum.

I know that amoonguss isn't amazing, but poison got a buff this gen defensively and his typing is amazing. he can take a hit and then put something to sleep.

calculations (just going down the list alphabetically on pokemon amoonguss can handle and threaten to put to sleep):
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 153-181 (35.4 - 41.8%) -- 84.9% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 108-127 (25 - 29.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
this set destroys breloom(no need for calculations)
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 228-270 (52.7 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (if predicted right with the fighting move, drain punch does like 15%) he can live ice punch and spore or at least scare him out
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 265-313 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery(can't switch in but at least can clear smog and stop the dragonite sweep)
252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 178-210 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery (can switch in on a choice scarf genesect)
+2 252+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 328-386 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery( can live +2 mega gyarados and clear smog [i know my calculations say gyarados but i switch the attack to 155 on the pokemonshowdown calculator as they don't have megas in their yet)
completely counters keldeo who is always a threat. no calculations needed
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 228-268 (52.7 - 62%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery(can always take a u-turn and then switch out again and be close to full health again)
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 124-146 (28.7 - 33.7%) -- 95.8% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 244-288 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

amoonguss is a great pivot wall that can act as a sponge for the team and survive long throught out the match because of regenerator. also b/c of his fantastic ability, amoonguss can take all status ailments and even knock offs. i know there are much superior pokemon with even the same typing cough cough mega venesaur but amoonguss at least deserves a shout out for his sponging ability.

lastly brave bird/ lum berry mandibuzz LOL

 

[Pdizzle]

First of all, no need to get so hostile about this. I've been using amoonguss on my team and I am currently ranked 2220 on pokemonshowdown on the account pdizzle alt1 (just started laddering 2 days ago after making my pokebank ou team). Furthermore, the arguments just stated are completely invalid as zachmac pointed out. I didn't say that amoonguss is suppose to be a mixed wall, set up sweeper and heatran destroyer. of course heatran stops it completely. every pokemon has its counter. even genesect cannot get past heatran.

now moving on, the idea of amoonguss being a lure, isn't for him to have mega venesaur(or even regular venesaur) or mandibuzz come in and for amoonguss to kill it, but as I said, when paired up with pokemon like rotom or talonflame, amoonguss can act as a lure for these pokemon to come in and for u to double switch out and gain momentum.

I know that amoonguss isn't amazing, but poison got a buff this gen defensively and his typing is amazing. he can take a hit and then put something to sleep.

calculations (just going down the list alphabetically on pokemon amoonguss can handle and threaten to put to sleep):
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 153-181 (35.4 - 41.8%) -- 84.9% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 108-127 (25 - 29.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
this set destroys breloom(no need for calculations)
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 228-270 (52.7 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (if predicted right with the fighting move, drain punch does like 15%) he can live ice punch and spore or at least scare him out
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 265-313 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery(can't switch in but at least can clear smog and stop the dragonite sweep)
252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 178-210 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery (can switch in on a choice scarf genesect)
+2 252+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 328-386 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery( can live +2 mega gyarados and clear smog [i know my calculations say gyarados but i switch the attack to 155 on the pokemonshowdown calculator as they don't have megas in their yet)
completely counters keldeo who is always a threat. no calculations needed
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Amoonguss: 228-268 (52.7 - 62%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery(can always take a u-turn and then switch out again and be close to full health again)
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 124-146 (28.7 - 33.7%) -- 95.8% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Amoonguss: 244-288 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

amoonguss is a great pivot wall that can act as a sponge for the team and survive long throught out the match because of regenerator. also b/c of his fantastic ability, amoonguss can take all status ailments and even knock offs. i know there are much superior pokemon with even the same typing cough cough mega venesaur but amoonguss at least deserves a shout out for his sponging ability.

also i wouldn't recommend amoonguss at all on a stall team. he is best used on a balanced offensive team as he can always gain back momentum for your team.

here are some replays of amoonguss acting like a sponge and being the glue to my team
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-75435432
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-75416843 and in this replay turn 4, it can be seen how amoonguss can act as a lure for certain pokemon to come in

 

[The_Grey_King]

Just popping in real quick to say that I've been wrecking faces with specs pixilate sylveon. Hyper Voice hits REALLY hard, and Psyshock and Shadow Ball work well for coverage. I'm not entirely sure on the final move, and have been wavering between Hidden Power (A type super effective against steel. Ground is the leading candidate atm) and Draining Kiss to get some HP on the sly.

 

[Josh Morales]

If you're talking about a preview analysis it does have one: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/completed-slurpuff.3492397/.
If you were to look at this thread it has a niche with its Belly Drum + Unburden combo which means it can get x4 atk and x2 speed in one turn. Not saying that its good but it does have a niche and an OU analysis so it should be ranked, probably C- IMO, but I haven't ever used one or faced one so I can't say much else.

No buddy, an actual analysis, not preview.

 

[Scytha Gang]

I am not sure if Florges has been mentioned yet or not, but I would like to nominate Florges for the B+ Rank. No lower for the B Rank.

Looking at the stats for Florges, 78/65/68/112/154/75, it's best two stats are it's SpA, which is 112, and it's SpD, which is 154. Florges is able to take Special hits very well. It has 344 SpD with no EV investments at Lv. 100, which will allow it to take Special hits easily. Also Poison and Steel types have become more prominent in the OU Metagame, Florges can still pose a threat today. It can play a defensive/supporting role, and can play a more offensive role as well.

As a defensive team member, it can use the Wish/Protect combo to regain health, and can also Toxic Stall as well. Also, it get's access to Aromatherapy to heal statused team members.

As a more offensive team member, Florges can set up Calm Minds against special attackers that can't harm it very easily, forcing opponents to place it in check with Physical Attackers, and with moves such as Moonblast, common Dragon and Fighting types will take heavy damage, and also, Florges has access to Psychic, which mean that Poison types better be careful. With Wish as a recovery option, and Aromatherapy to avoid being Toxic Stalled Out, a Calm Mind Florges can pose a problem.

However, Florges does have some flaws. Faster Physical Attackers, especially Steel types, can take it out fairly easily, and this includes the priority move Bullet Punch. Base 68 Def is not good for Florges, and it's Florges' biggest weakness. Steel types and Poison types pose a major threat to Florges, especially if they are Physical Attackers, so counters/checks for common Poison and Steel types need to be considered if Florges is added on a team. Also, both of it's abilities are useless in the OU metagame, as they all apply to double battles.

But even with those flaws, Florges can function well against threats in OU, especially Special Attackers without STAB Poison/Steel moves, and can set up against them fairly easy with Calm Minds, or Wish pass with ease.

These Are Some Examples Of Calm Mind Florges in Action:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-71047377
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-71242891

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I am not sure if Florges has been mentioned yet or not, but I would like to nominate Florges for the B+ Rank. No lower for the B Rank.

Looking at the stats for Florges, 78/65/68/112/154/75, it's best two stats are it's SpA, which is 112, and it's SpD, which is 154. Florges is able to take Special hits very well. It has 344 SpD with no EV investments at Lv. 100, which will allow it to take Special hits easily. Also Poison and Steel types have become more prominent in the OU Metagame, Florges can still pose a threat today. It can play a defensive/supporting role, and can play a more offensive role as well.

As a defensive team member, it can use the Wish/Protect combo to regain health, and can also Toxic Stall as well. Also, it get's access to Aromatherapy to heal statused team members.

As a more offensive team member, Florges can set up Calm Minds against special attackers that can't harm it very easily, forcing opponents to place it in check with Physical Attackers, and with moves such as Moonblast, common Dragon and Fighting types will take heavy damage, and also, Florges has access to Psychic, which mean that Poison types better be careful. With Wish as a recovery option, and Aromatherapy to avoid being Toxic Stalled Out, a Calm Mind Florges can pose a problem.

However, Florges does have some flaws. Faster Physical Attackers, especially Steel types, can take it out fairly easily, and this includes the priority move Bullet Punch. Base 68 Def is not good for Florges, and it's Florges' biggest weakness. Steel types and Poison types pose a major threat to Florges, especially if they are Physical Attackers, so counters/checks for common Poison and Steel types need to be considered if Florges is added on a team. Also, both of it's abilities are useless in the OU metagame, as they all apply to double battles.

But even with those flaws, Florges can function well against threats in OU, especially Special Attackers without STAB Poison/Steel moves, and can set up against them fairly easy with Calm Minds, or Wish pass with ease.

These Are Some Examples Of Calm Mind Florges in Action:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-71047377
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-71242891

This has already been refuted before. Its completely outclassed by sylveon, who itself is a B rank mon. So no, theres absolutely no reason to rank this thing here.

 

[Tressed]

I am not sure if Florges has been mentioned yet or not, but I would like to nominate Florges for the B+ Rank. No lower for the B Rank.

Looking at the stats for Florges, 78/65/68/112/154/75, it's best two stats are it's SpA, which is 112, and it's SpD, which is 154. Florges is able to take Special hits very well. It has 344 SpD with no EV investments at Lv. 100, which will allow it to take Special hits easily. Also Poison and Steel types have become more prominent in the OU Metagame, Florges can still pose a threat today. It can play a defensive/supporting role, and can play a more offensive role as well.

As a defensive team member, it can use the Wish/Protect combo to regain health, and can also Toxic Stall as well. Also, it get's access to Aromatherapy to heal statused team members.

As a more offensive team member, Florges can set up Calm Minds against special attackers that can't harm it very easily, forcing opponents to place it in check with Physical Attackers, and with moves such as Moonblast, common Dragon and Fighting types will take heavy damage, and also, Florges has access to Psychic, which mean that Poison types better be careful. With Wish as a recovery option, and Aromatherapy to avoid being Toxic Stalled Out, a Calm Mind Florges can pose a problem.

However, Florges does have some flaws. Faster Physical Attackers, especially Steel types, can take it out fairly easily, and this includes the priority move Bullet Punch. Base 68 Def is not good for Florges, and it's Florges' biggest weakness. Steel types and Poison types pose a major threat to Florges, especially if they are Physical Attackers, so counters/checks for common Poison and Steel types need to be considered if Florges is added on a team. Also, both of it's abilities are useless in the OU metagame, as they all apply to double battles.

But even with those flaws, Florges can function well against threats in OU, especially Special Attackers without STAB Poison/Steel moves, and can set up against them fairly easy with Calm Minds, or Wish pass with ease.

These Are Some Examples Of Calm Mind Florges in Action:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-71047377
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-71242891

This has been talked about too many times, Sylveon outclasses Florges in just about every way possible. Florges isn't getting a ranking because you should never use it over Sylveon.

Lets bring up something that hasn't been mentionned before, please?

 

[Scytha Gang]

This has already been refuted before. Its completely outclassed by sylveon, who itself is a B rank mon. So no, theres absolutely no reason to rank this thing here.

Sylveon has higher HP, better abilities, and a more diverse (but similar) movepool, but that alone doesn't mean it outclasses Florges.

Florges, has higher defense, Special Atk, Special Def, and Speed, and knows Aromatherapy, which Sylveon does not, giving it the option to Wish Pass, cure status moves, and set up against Special Attackers that cannot harm it better than Sylveon can.

 

[Lord Ghetsis]

Sylveon has higher HP, better abilities, and a more diverse (but similar) movepool, but that alone doesn't mean it outclasses Florges.

Florges, has higher defense, Special Atk, Special Def, and Speed, and knows Aromatherapy, which Sylveon does not, giving it the option to Wish Pass, cure status moves, and set up against Special Attackers that cannot harm it better than Sylveon can.

Florges. Is. Not. Being. Ranked.

 

[Star]

Getting off the topic of Florges (which is completely outclassed by Sylveon), I want to argue for Mega Manetric for B+ Rank. It has a fantastic speed tier and can form a blazing fast volt-turn core with Genesect. It can also switch kill Ferrothorn with Flamethrower which any other Electric type would die for. It can outspeed basically any unboosted Pokemon in the metagame bar Alakazam and scarfers. Its just a huge momentum booster as it can come in and lower something's Attack stat with Intimidate and Volt Switch out to another team member on the switch out. With proper hazard support, Mega Manetric combined with Genesect forces a ridiculous amount of switches and makes it easy for a win condition to clean up the scraps at the end. The sheer speed and utility of this pokemon should get it at least B+ rank.

 

[myw]

Getting off the topic of Florges (which is completely outclassed by Sylveon), I want to argue for Mega Manetric for B+ Rank. It has a fantastic speed tier and can form a blazing fast volt-turn core with Genesect. It can also switch kill Ferrothorn with Flamethrower which any other Electric type would die for. It can outspeed basically any unboosted Pokemon in the metagame bar Alakazam and scarfers. Its just a huge momentum booster as it can come in and lower something's Attack stat with Intimidate and Volt Switch out to another team member on the switch out. With proper hazard support, Mega Manetric combined with Genesect forces a ridiculous amount of switches and makes it easy for a win condition to clean up the scraps at the end. The sheer speed and utility of this pokemon should get it at least B+ rank.

The biggest problem with Manetric is that even with intimidate, it gets worn down a bit too quickly for a good voltturn core. It's just really frail.

 

[Josh Morales]

The biggest problem with Manetric is that even with intimidate, it gets worn down a bit too quickly for a good voltturn core. It's just really frail.

I wouldn't call base 129 defense and 70 hp frail.