Mewtwo

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I've been using this mm2x set:

Mewtwo @ Mewtwonite X
EVs: 248 HP, 252 Atk, 8 Spe
Nature: Naughty
-Psystrike
-Drain Punch
-Thunderbolt
-Stone Edge

as a Baton Pass recipient from Blaziken. Should I run Psychic instead for more mixed coverage? This is mostly a surprise "gimmick" to lure in Ho-Oh.

EDIT: I usually delay MEvo by 2 or 3 turns so others think that the Mewtwo is not MegaX.
 
It would be a waste of a move slot in my opinion, MMX has a severe case of 4MSS and appreciates the offensive presence and the healing power of Drain Punch.
 
4MSS would still apply. You'd want at least Psystrike, Ice Beam, Fire Blast (stab, groudon, aegislash) leaving only one slot left and you'd definitely want to fill it with Taunt because of the massive amounts of status and recovery moves being used in this metagame. Recover is really just a luxury and not terribly important for something that is supposed to be breaking defensive cores.
 
Mega Mewtwo Y's high speed and special bulk let it pull of a sort of stall breaker set much like 5th and 6th gen's "stall two" set.

orch gave me the idea, I don't really know how though.

Mewtwo @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 176 Spd / 252 HP / 80 SDef
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Psystrike
- Recover

EVs are pretty simple, after Mega Evolving you have enough speed to outrun Mega Gengar and whack it with a psystrike. The rest is invested into its HP and special defense to make it very bulky. For reference you can beat Palkia given its not getting any boosts from rain o_O.

252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 192-226 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

Wrecked. You simply stall until you get a miss or just pp stall hydro pump entirely. Spacial Rend deals less damage and / or is worse. You then proceed to 2HKO with Psystrike whenever you get the chance or just burn stall. Assault Vest Palkia cry.

If you haven't used Stall Two before the idea is to Taunt the opponent to prevent them from healing, WoW acts like a psuedo Reflect that also sneaks passive damage in, Recover is obvious Recovery, and Psystrike smacks stuff / speeds up their death.

Light Screen was viable in previous generations but the ability to outspeed + OHKO Mega Gengar is too much to give up.

This thing is also probably the best thing to use if you wanna keep your hazards up. After Stealth Rock, Psystrike OHKOes ho-oh and this Mewtwo cannot be bypassed by any of the common Support Arceus (except Darkceus and maybe Ghostceus). Scizor has the best chance but it'll get burned in the process and rendered useless. Giratina-o is in a similar boat except Shadow Balls will actually hurt after its burned. It probably also single handedly gives quick stall a chance to thrive this generation.
 
Kadabrium said:
Hows subpunch on x?
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Probably disappointing.

Low Kick is already very powerful against most Pokemon, even when it hits neutrally:
252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 262-309 (81.3 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Furthermore, with Substitute, you miss out on either Taunt (which has great utility in general and helps with standard Giratina, one of the few things that easily survives any of your attacks), or Earthquake (which means that Aegislash hard counters you). It also costs 25% HP per Substitute, which you have no way of regaining (unless you run Drain Punch and miss out on both Taunt and Earthquake).
 
I'm catching a mewtwo in HGSS to bring forward as a MMx, and the more I look at it the harder 4MSS hits me. Low kick is MMx's amazing STAB, but if you want any form of recovery (which is a decent idea on the decently bulky mmx especially with bulk up) you'd have to run another fighting type move, leaving only 1 slot for coverage. So either you are going to be stopped dead by aegislash (no EQ) or be ineffective against flying types (no SE). Either way you are vulnerable to status without taunt. Bulk up just seems like such a good option considering MMX's attack, even uninvested, that it's hard to justify not using it too.

For the people who have been using MMx, have you found it more viable to sacrifice recovery, bulk up, or coverage?
 
252+ Atk Mega Mewtwo X Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 237-280 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 222-262 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't understand why u all would run psystrike instead of psychic on mixedX.
Those calcs simply show otherwise, and im not even taking into account a -sp.atk

Unless u run more sp.atk evs or psychic, i don't see why u would run this over zen/cut since psystrike like cut/zen also hits the defense stat of the target.

Can someone prove me wrong? I can't seem to understand this.
 
midend said:
252+ Atk Mega Mewtwo X Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 237-280 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 222-262 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't understand why u all would run psystrike instead of psychic on mixedX.
Those calcs simply show otherwise, and im not even taking into account a -sp.atk

Unless u run more sp.atk evs or psychic, i don't see why u would run this over zen/cut since psystrike like cut/zen also hits the defense stat of the target.

Can someone prove me wrong? I can't seem to understand this.
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No one runs adamant, getting outsped by arceus, darkrai, skymin, opposing mewtwo, gengar, etc is just too high a cost. You're almost forced to run jolly or hasty if you mmx depending on the set and psystrike requires far less ev's to outdamage any other non low kick move and thus is overall better for ev usage since you don't need 252atk ev's on mmx despite what one might think.
 
Haruno said:
No one runs adamant, getting outsped by arceus, darkrai, skymin, opposing mewtwo, gengar, etc is just too high a cost. You're almost forced to run jolly or hasty if you mmx depending on the set and psystrike requires far less ev's to outdamage any other non low kick move and thus is overall better for ev usage since you don't need 252atk ev's on mmx despite what one might think.
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Would u run jolly or hasty with bulk up and psystrike over zen/cut then?
 
midend said:
Would u run jolly or hasty with bulk up and psystrike over zen/cut then?
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I wouldn't run bulk up at all. The "best" Mmx set would probably be jolly Mmx with taunt and edge quake + low kick thanks to perfect coverage and being strong as fuck.
 
midend said:
252+ Atk Mega Mewtwo X Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 237-280 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 222-262 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't understand why u all would run psystrike instead of psychic on mixedX.
Those calcs simply show otherwise, and im not even taking into account a -sp.atk

Unless u run more sp.atk evs or psychic, i don't see why u would run this over zen/cut since psystrike like cut/zen also hits the defense stat of the target.

Can someone prove me wrong? I can't seem to understand this.
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I said it before, but I don't mind saying it again: Psystrike isn't affected by Intimidate, Reflect, or Burn.
 
The real question is, what viable targets does Psystrike (or Psycho Cut or Zen Headbutt) have that Low Kick, Earthquake and Stone Edge don't cover almost as well or better?

Despite being STAB, an uninvested Psystrike is barely more powerful than Earthquake/Stone Edge on neutral targets:

4 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 157-186 (48.7 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 146-172 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO

Note that this also forces Mewtwo to use a nature which compromises one of its defenses somewhat; if it opts for a Jolly nature instead, Psystrike is no more powerful than any of Mewtwo's other moves on neutral targets, and Low Kick, Earthquake and Stone Edge have perfect neutral coverage.

So the only targets that remain for Psystrike are Pokemon which are hit super effectively by Psychic-type moves, but not Fighting-, Rock- or Ground-type moves. In the context of Pokemon that are actually viable in the tier, this means only two targets: Gengar (before its Mega Evolution) and Arceus-Fighting. Yet even for these targets:

4 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fighting: 270-320 (60.8 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fighting: 223-264 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 220-259 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With or without Psystrike, Arceus-Fighting is consistently 2HKOed, and Psystrike would only be advantageous in rare situations (not to mention that most Arceus-Fighting cannot significantly harm Mewtwo if it carries Taunt). As for Gengar, to survive against Mewtwo it has to refrain from Mega Evolving, which means that Mewtwo is free to switch out. Even if it does not, with only little prior damage, Stone Edge OHKOs Gengar.

Therefore, the coverage provided by Psystrike is rarely ever useful. Even if it can be used to bypass burns, Reflect or Intimidate, it really is not worth a moveslot. If you are insistent on using a Psychic STAB move, Zen Headbutt at least is noticeably more powerful than Earthquake/Stone Edge against neutral targets, as well as having a 20% chance to flinch, but even that rarely compensates the loss of a coverage move or Taunt.
 
I'm a tad confused, why do you run Psystrike versus say Zen Headbutt or Psycho Cut? Is it due to Intimidate + Burn, or am I missing something?
 
through out this thread people seem to be glossing over the fact that Mewtwo x has the highest attack in the game even if the highest power stab moves are 75 base it will still hurt like hell (even power-up punch is pretty scary when coming off of that power)
 
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