XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)

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was any of them a cleff bomb team?

lol yeah that was when Platinum UU came out. fun times! This Gen is really fun because it's offering alot of different styles. Stall, Offensive, balance, trick room. So far all are viable. I had to get to the top by sheer offence without any of the bans. This UU gen will be fun.


But lets keeep in mind the power difference is quite noticable. Stoutland reaches 350 with an adamant nature while diggersby hits 464 with adamant nature. Diggersbyis still stronger with a jolky nature. Stoutland is still bulkier with 85/90/90 comparee to diggersby 85/77/77. Perhaps both can be used to wear down each others checks...

Id really like to try that. Diggersby 2HKO the entire metagame right now and it's coverage is just too good.
 
Okay, I'm convinced that Hawlucha is awesome in UU. I just played some more matches with it and I am impressed. Here's a video of Hawlucha being awesome and outspeeding Choice Scarf Hydreigon in UU.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-80262595
And here's Hawlucha sweeping an entire team without Unburden even kicking in.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-80265690
One more battle feat. Aggron and Hawlucha. I made some mistakes here, but it turned out all right.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-80261179
I'm not that high ranked, but you can't deny that Hawlucha is a huge threat in UU. It's also worth noting that regular Aggron is still viable and that Zygarde is also a huge threat that fits quite well in UU.
 
Okay, I'm convinced that Hawlucha is awesome in UU. I just played some more matches with it and I am impressed. Here's a video of Hawlucha being awesome and outspeeding Choice Scarf Hydreigon in UU.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-80262595
And here's Hawlucha sweeping an entire team without Unburden even kicking in.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-80265690
One more battle feat. Aggron and Hawlucha. I made some mistakes here, but it turned out all right.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-80261179
I'm not that high ranked, but you can't deny that Hawlucha is a huge threat in UU. It's also worth noting that regular Aggron is still viable and that Zygarde is also a huge threat that fits quite well in UU.
Hawlucha is kinda like haxorus. Devastating when it setups, but too frail to do so most of the time. Power herb+sky attack is the most reliable set since you get an extremely powerful move instantly to compensate for the difficult in setup. Frankly swords dance is more of a filler if anything, its just way too hard to use when you have no bulk and you can usually clean with unboosted moves anyway. Those replays were pretty bad, your opponents clearly didnt knew what they were doing (psychic chandelure, leftovers hitmonlee, dynamicpunch machamp without no guard, thunder manectric) but i do agree with you that hawlucha can be a great threat.
 
Has anyone considered assault vest latias? With 130 SpD and no EV investment or nature boost, Latias is already at 444 SpD. With invesment into HP and SpA, you could have a legit special wall. The only thing it needs is a wish passer for recovery and a possile heal bell/aromatherapy too.
 
Has anyone considered assault vest latias? With 130 SpD and no EV investment or nature boost, Latias is already at 444 SpD. With invesment into HP and SpA, you could have a legit special wall. The only thing it needs is a wish passer for recovery and a possile heal bell/aromatherapy too.

No. Please stop sticking Assault Vest on random stuff.

Latias has a huge number of status moves it would like to use, especially Roost which extends its longevity far more than AV could.
 
The thing is, AV only goes on stuff that can attack. If you can recover, like blissey can wish, then AV blissey is probably not the best idea, even though it is basically untouchable. Bulky attackers, not walls, like AV. I've just seen random pokemon like ferrothorn have AV tacked onto them and its pretty sad...
 
Can we get some ancillary justification behind the Thundurus-T ban?

I would like this as well? I mean, I get that the idea is you guys being really lenient with the bans, but I didn't feel that this was broken at all? Not even by really lenient standards. I'm not gonna try an argue, I'm just kind of looking for clarification. I thought Thundy-t was a pretty balanced part in this metagame.

This is true, but diggersby can't outspeed much unless it gets an agility off, and it doesn't benefit from the sand in any way (nobody in this team outside of the last member you didn't mention even benefits from sand, so why not run sand force hippo or something?). Bisharp can just sucker punch you and if you decide to lock yourself into quick attack he can use knock off or even set up.
The real perk of stoutland is that it doesn't need to set up, and that's invaluable. 1 turn is all that's needed for some sweepers to just crush everything and not even needing that is pretty cool.

Stoutland behind sand has a double speed, so it gets a chance to sweep through entire teams which Diggersby can't do because it's so slow. However, using Stoutland requires you to use Hippowdon somewhere on your team, and while Hippowdon is a great pokemon, it does limit the pokemon you can run on your team because you have to cover the specific weaknesses of the two pkemon. Diggersby, on the other hand, has an obscene amount of power, but it doesn't have the speed that Stoutland has unless you use Agility, so it's a lot harder for it to sweep teams. However, it does come with the perk of not needing to waste a slot on Hippo. So which one you use completely depends on your team and what kind of support you're willing to use alongside it. I think Diggersby is easier to throw on a team because it doesn't require 2 pokemon to operate effectively, but that's just me.
 
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OK how is hippo absolutely terrible again? He was one of OU's top physical walls and still is, completely countering even special attackers like aegislash. He has stealth rock, can phaze, skarmory levels of bulk, reliable recovery, and a STAB eq that can actually threaten things like bisharp and nidoqueen.
His specially defensive set can handle practically any electric type not named rotom and is just beautiful, I really don't see how you think its absolute garbage.
He's easy to take advantage of in some ways, but his defensive prowess cannot be ignored.
 
OK how is hippo absolutely terrible again?

It's not. I just forgot you could use Hippowdon because I am retarded. I even /use/ Hippowdon. Yes that's another point in Stoutland's favor, although it does /force/ you to use Hippowdon, which kind of limits the pokemon you're allowed to use around the two of them. Edited my other post e.e
 
Okay, time for another round of bans.

Drought, Deoxys-S, Heracronite, and Thundurus-T are now BL until we get around to retesting them. These bans should be implemented as soon as Joim or Zarel get around to it.

That is all.

Were sun teams really that bad? I never faced one, so I wouldn't know, but the benefits of sun aren't as diverse or influential as those for rain.
 
Were sun teams really that bad? I never faced one, so I wouldn't know, but the benefits of sun aren't as diverse or influential as those for rain.
I suspect it was for balancing. With rain gone, sun was the only weather with good abusers in the tier. Even if sun wasn't as powerful as rain it had no competition, with sand only having one or 2 good abusers who were nothing when compared to Victini, Chandelure, or Darmanitan.
 
Why is gastrodon more used than swampert? Rain's banned in uu so why use gastrodon? Swampert has much better stats and gastro without it's ability to wall rain team, it belongs to nu like in gen 4
 
Why is gastrodon more used than swampert? Rain's banned in uu so why use gastrodon? Swampert has much better stats and gastro without.t it's ability to wall rain team, it belongs to nu like in gen 4
Gastro is still bulky, has STAB Scald, and a water immunity is really nice. It also completely can threaten stuff like Bisharp. Though I'm not sure those completely justify the use it's getting.
 
Gastro is still bulky, has STAB Scald, and a water immunity is really nice. It also completely can threaten stuff like Bisharp. Though I'm not sure those completely justify the use it's getting.

It does have instant access to recovery which differentiates itfrom swampy. Heck choosing swampy, gastro and guagsiredepends on your team and what role you need filled. An immunity to water threatens mega blastoise which is probabky the most dependable spinner at this moment.

Also, ive been playing with stoutland and its very good. I think LO is the way to go. It saved my behind when it was stoutland versus bisharp and meloetta. Switching between moves is almost necessary imo...
 
OK how is hippo absolutely terrible again? He was one of OU's top physical walls and still is, completely countering even special attackers like aegislash. He has stealth rock, can phaze, skarmory levels of bulk, reliable recovery, and a STAB eq that can actually threaten things like bisharp and nidoqueen.
His specially defensive set can handle practically any electric type not named rotom and is just beautiful, I really don't see how you think its absolute garbage.
He's easy to take advantage of in some ways, but his defensive prowess cannot be ignored.

You have to remember that tiers are based on usage, not necessarily viability or power. We have junk like Smeargle in OU but Manaphy, who is strictly good insane, ended up in UU, as well as Hippowdon (who is as good as you say,) KyuB, Bisharp, and a bunch of others.

Also, all the megas that are UU because M-Lucario is a broken piece of shit and is hogging up all the usage. Once it gets banned, maybe a few megas in UU will be leaving us.
 
so i played a few more games

bisharp really appreciates sticky web... everywhere! if the opponent has sticky web, bisharp outruns almost everything except scarfers and levitators/flyingtypemons. if you have sticky web, bisharp gets free swords dances every time it runs in! holy fuck. im pairing this now with smooth rock hippowdon and EB stoutland and so far it has yet to disappoint. really good. only thing bad about this offensive core is that you need something to cover blastoise, and i haven't really found anything good :< (gdi florges why aren't you grass/fairy)
 
Ive seen so much less sticky web than when uu beta first start. I think its more of a liability since bisharp is everywhere. There really isnt much that can take on +2 bisharp...
 
i've been running some sticky web of my own, and it's really good. bisharp is one of those pokemon that really appreciates sticky web, because his ability to outrun things with it is damn good. if you're grounded and without a scarf, you need 360 speed to outrun adamant bisharp after a sticky web switchin, which translates to positive natured base 115 speed pokemon. with maximum investment. even if you still outrun, you better make sure you can take a sucker punch to the face.

knock off hurts so many things so bad its not even funny.
 
Sticky Web is a great move, I just hate that the only pokemon we can use it with are like Smeagle and a couple of really lame bug pokemon. (ie: Ariados) I feel like it has a lot of benefits, but it forces you to basically play a game 5 on 6, which is hard for any offensive team to do. In previous generations, at least you'd be able to explode with your stealth rocker or something, but in this gen you don't really have that on anything with Sticky Web. (Although Dark Void/Spore Smeargle may help with this a bit.)

Why is gastrodon more used than swampert? Rain's banned in uu so why use gastrodon? Swampert has much better stats and gastro without it's ability to wall rain team, it belongs to nu like in gen 4

Gastrodon has a complete immunity to water, which makes it a lot more of a threat to pokemon like Choiced Keldeo, Suicune, etc. With Drizzle gone, this isn't quite as prevalent, but the immunity is still nice. Gastrodon also has the move Recover, so it can survive later in the game than Swampert usually can barring Wish support. The only reason to use Swampert I think is its superior physical bulk, allowing it to check physical threats like Sharpedo, Weavile, and Flygon more effectively. (Although a physically defensive Gastrodon with Scald still does a pretty good job.) I guess Swampert also has the ability to run an offensive Choice Band set, but with Levitators/Flying-types being more prevalent, as well as THREE new pokemon with a water imunity (Jellicent, Vaporeon, Gastrodon) as well as several with resists, I'd be really hesitant to recklessly lock myself into either of my STAB moves.
 
And lets keep in mind as far as gastro that its not only immune to water it gets a special attack boost which differentiates itself from swampy altogether.
 
AV Swampert maybe? Idk. Anyway, going to circle back around to the Hippowdon/sand topic. I haven't been using a team that tries to take advantage of Sand per se, but I have been using a defensive core that does like the added passive damage from Sand:

450.png


Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind

395.png


Empoleon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 248 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Defog
- Scald
- Flash Cannon
- Knock Off

So yeah, Hippowdon and Empoleon pair pretty well together. Hippowdon is immune to Electric-type moves and can take most Ground- and Fighting-type moves just based on sheer physical bulk alone while Empoleon shrugs off Ice- and Water-type moves aimed at Hippowdon. It might seem strange to have Hippowdon with Stealth Rock and Empoleon with Defog, but this just takes advantage of Hippo's bulk and staying power, and considering neither likes Spikes, it can prove quite useful in the long run. Hippowdon also brings phazing to the table while Empoleon can run Knock Off since Hippowdon runs both Rocks and a phazing move, thus disallowing defensive Pokemon to get Leftovers recovery to cancel out Sandstorm damage. Scald can also just add to the passive damage by inflicting burns while Flash Cannon ensures Mega Gardevoir can't just truck the core without paying a price. The biggest problem for this core is Mega Medicham who can just straight 2HKO Hippowdon with High Jump Kick and I think we all know what will happen if Empoleon actually tries to stay in on it. For this reason, running a Psychic-type such as Reuniclus (takes no Sandstorm damage) Latias (also immune to Ground-type moves) or Celebi (resists Ground- and Water-type moves) can prove quite useful.
 
The thing is, Tiers are not exact replica's of each other, where each tier is ''weaker'' than the other, e.g. lower attacking stats or defensive stats for 'mons filling the same role. Due to each 'Mon functioning different than others, tiers can have a big difference. This means that there will also be some sort of Typing border, where as in OU Talonflame is used a lot, people will start running Rock-types to deal with it. as a result, Fighting types will be used more often to deal with those Rock types. and Fighting types have a weakness to Flying. So, say if there are a lot of Fighting and Rock type attacks in OU, Kyurem-B would not do well in that environment, since it would be too hostile for it to survive and function well. But if there are a lot of Water, Grass and Electric type attacks, Kyurem-B Would have an easy time switching in (provided rocks aren't on the field but let's ignore that for now). And Water and Electric moves are used quite often in UU Beta, so as a result, Kyurem-B can do well here, but can't do well in OU. Because of that, he will drop to UU, where he becomes almost too powerful for the tier.

I think this goes the same for other borderline 'mons, like last gen.

That may have been the most profound thing I have ever posted in a video game forum.
 
Lol jolky sounds funny.

Sorry. Anyway I wouldn't suggest using both, especially because you have snorlax. Super fighting weak. And, why would you use amoongus and snorlax in sand? They don't benefit from it actually it's bad for them. Snorlax loses all recovery with av and gets worn down much quicker. Amoongus can deal with the damage, and deals with water types who get hippo, but I would say gastrodon is much better because it's immune to sandstorm and water moves. Also slowking can wall sub/cm 3 attacks megagardevoir if they have focus blast and not tbolt. Then I guess you are more grass weak. Hm.

252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 222-262 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

mega gardevoir still has means of breaking through (though im not sure how fast snorlax can kill mega gardevoir)

with modest nature 252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 244-288 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

snorlax can take a few hits it can be taken down. and also gastrodon does not have regenerator (which is a defining part of its usage. though gastro has recover, he cant exactly use it when switching can he?) not to mention, sand wears off eventually so hippowdon needs to keep coming back to keep sand up
 
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