PEOPLE. STOP. HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY DEOXYS-S DOES A LOT MORE THEN SET UP HAZARDS.
Also, can Jolteon also be blacklisted from discussion cause inb4 people say fast and strong without mentioning its obvious problems.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
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PEOPLE. STOP. HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY DEOXYS-S DOES A LOT MORE THEN SET UP HAZARDS.
Also, can Jolteon also be blacklisted from discussion cause inb4 people say fast and strong without mentioning its obvious problems.
This is extremely pathetic. This guy made the thread about Deo-S. He is rather knowledgeable about the subject.
Please come back when you have arguments, not "I can't win, so why not quit out and attempt to make the other look stupid".
Have a nice day.
PS: Majority of people agree that Deo-S is S ranked, or at least extremely viable this Gen.
"One does not need to defog in the face of Deoxys-S". Frankly speaking, we're having a discussion, not flowery writing sessions.
One thing I will agree with you on is that it has limited move slots, though his move usage is anything but predictable. I made a similar argument regarding Mew's versatility as a huge factor for making it anywhere near viable. Looking at Deoxys-S support movepool, he has access to hazards and moves that shut down or counter anti-hazard stacking (Taunt, Magic Coat). Couple that with an offensive move of the player's choice (from its vast offensive movepool ofc), and knowing what it runs is a guessing game.
Furthermore, I think you're overlooking its base 180 Speed. In short, it basically outspeeds ScarfChomp with a Timid nature. Adding on to that, it has decent 95 offenses and an abusable movepool that can just about nail everything in the metagame for good amounts of damage on both spectrums. Tack a Life Orb onto it, and you have a "scarfer" that can abuse coverage moves to nab KOs or soften up threats for the sweepers effectively.
Preach, brother. Preach.
No one has seriously argued about it for weeks.
Prevention tactics.
Well, I did make the thr--
...nevermind. Mr. EpicBro beat me to it (glad to see somebody knows that I made that thread).
So...yeah, every argument that could be made against Deoxys-S has a counter-argument that can be read in this thread or the Deoxys-S thread. I haven't updated that thread in a while and I might get to it in a while.
Stop. With. The. Deoxys. S.
Seriously this is as bad as mega venusaur was, the best solution is for everyone on both sides to stop posting about it. If you see a stupid argument, then you don't need to even acknowledge it because the updaters will recognize it as stupid and ignore it. Just let it go.
We haven't had any interesting discussion for like the last three pages. Would someone please propose something interesting, or should I go pull some more random stuff out of the analysis thread?
Seriously this is as bad as mega venusaur was, the best solution is for everyone on both sides to stop posting about it. If you see a stupid argument, then you don't need to even acknowledge it because the updaters will recognize it as stupid and ignore it. Just let it go.
We haven't had any interesting discussion for like the last three pages. Would someone please propose something interesting, or should I go pull some more random stuff out of the analysis thread?
Some ideas I've been throwing around:
Vaporeon should be at B/C+ as it was and is still a good Wish passer. The only reason I don't strongly say B is because Togekiss and Sylveon can pass Wishes and have a somewhat better chance of not being screwed if they get Taunted (more so with Togekiss, who definitely belongs where it is with the decreased viability of SR)
Chandelure should probably be bumped up to B- as he can still Spinblock, resist Fairy, and is strong enough to burn or OHKO Excadrill when he Swords Dances. He is also the highest Pokemon to possess Infiltrator which is a niche as it now lets him hit through Substitute.
Espeon is still the most viable Magic Bounce user as he has good special attack, special defense and speed, and, of course, doesn't take up a mega slot. This is a niche he can fill that he does best so he should probably be at B+ if not A-.
I've seen a lot of mention of Crobat and he should be at B or maybe B- for a wallbreaker and with his new lease on life with the Poison buff. He may not have the brute force entirely necessary to punch through walls but Super Fang, Toxic, Taunt and Brave Bird should be enough, barring Steel types, to force a good wall to switch or be taken down.
Cloyster should still be in at A because of the easy Skill Link Icicle Spears and Rock Blasts that punch through even Steels, though the increased use of priority and of multi-hit moves may relegate him to A- (we can only pray he one day gets Water Shuriken)
Finally, Trevenant and Scolipede should be moved up to B+, and maybe even A/A- for Scolipede, as Sub/Harvest/Phantom Force Trevenant, though uncommon, can rip through underprepared teamsand Scolipede has the defense, and Infestation, to come in on something it resists (Fairies, anyone?) and set up a Swords Dance/Speed Boost Baton Pass to any one of the other sweepers on this list. Scolipede is the best to do this as Blaziken is banned and he is the least Stealth Rock weak of the others (and hes immune to Poison)
Vaporeon should be at B/C+ as it was and is still a good Wish passer. The only reason I don't strongly say B is because Togekiss and Sylveon can pass Wishes and have a somewhat better chance of not being screwed if they get Taunted (more so with Togekiss, who definitely belongs where it is with the decreased viability of SR)
Chandelure should probably be bumped up to B- as he can still Spinblock, resist Fairy, and is strong enough to burn or OHKO Excadrill when he Swords Dances. He is also the highest Pokemon to possess Infiltrator which is a niche as it now lets him hit through Substitute.
Espeon is still the most viable Magic Bounce user as he has good special attack, special defense and speed, and, of course, doesn't take up a mega slot. This is a niche he can fill that he does best so he should probably be at B+ if not A-.
I've seen a lot of mention of Crobat and he should be at B or maybe B- for a wallbreaker and with his new lease on life with the Poison buff. He may not have the brute force entirely necessary to punch through walls but Super Fang, Toxic, Taunt and Brave Bird should be enough, barring Steel types, to force a good wall to switch or be taken down.
Cloyster should still be in at A because of the easy Skill Link Icicle Spears and Rock Blasts that punch through even Steels, though the increased use of priority and of multi-hit moves may relegate him to A- (we can only pray he one day gets Water Shuriken)
Finally, Trevenant and Scolipede should be moved up to B+, and maybe even A/A- for Scolipede, as Sub/Harvest/Phantom Force Trevenant, though uncommon, can rip through underprepared teamsand Scolipede has the defense, and Infestation, to come in on something it resists (Fairies, anyone?) and set up a Swords Dance/Speed Boost Baton Pass to any one of the other sweepers on this list. Scolipede is the best to do this as Blaziken is banned and he is the least Stealth Rock weak of the others (and hes immune to Poison)
you're joking right?
edit: throwback quote time
[23:19:09] Champion Charizard: lando-i is good enough to justify a teamslot, but not stupidly broken.
[23:19:09] Champion Charizard: i'd ban cloyster before landours
edit 2:
dfanvikel withdrew Gallade!
dfanvikel sent out Espeon!
Landorus-Therian used U-turn!
It's super effective! The opposing Espeon lost 87% of its health!
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I may be a bit overzealous with some favorites from BW but the only thing that does Espeon's job that isn't Stealth Rock weak is Mega Absol (and should I highlight Mega?) Cloyster, if used properly with Shell Smash can still promise a kill.
I feel like the Pokemon who do a Mega Pokemon's job as well should not be put down just because a Mega does it better, as choosing a Mega is hard enough without using it to fill a niche that another Pokemon could fill and leave you your slot.
edit: and keep in mind I didn't say that anything should be moved to S rank, because nothing is as annoying as a good Aegislash. I'd like to know your opinion and why you think mine is incorrect.
If you really hate hazards that much, just use Excadrill or a Defog mon. INB4 "but espeon prevents sr from hitting the field", in reality it only stops the Deoxys,Smeargle, and players that use Stealth Rock/Spikes/Toxic Spikes turn 1 no matter what, the other hazard mon will wall it depending on what it picks for hidden power(mostly Heatran and Ferrothorn) or just kill it with like anything(Everything else except Exca who gets SR up anyway).
The only real niche espeon has is being used in full baton pass teams.
Despite the numerous issues with the rest of this post, I think this particular suggestion is very pertinent. I've used Vaporeon a lot. Its huge Wishes and excellent bulk are awesome, and it's bursting with utility via access to Toxic to cripple foes, Roar to phaze, and Heal Bell to act as team cleric. Wish + Protect has saved me games in a number of cases, too, allowing Vaporeon to recover its health and stall out foes. Its bulk and utility make Vaporeon a B- Tier threat IMO.
I wouldn't say Espeon is that bad. Dual screens and hazard prevention support is an okay niche, and it excels at that role, supporting offensive Pokemon well. It faces competition, sure, but it isn't bad, and has a good niche. C+
Dual Screens! I knew I forgot something.
I can't believe people are brushing off Espeon's Magic Bounce ability. Granted, I think Espeon belongs somewhere in B rank, but he's still definitely a solid pokemon with a bigger niche than just being in baton teams. He still has a great base speed of 110 combined with a sp.atk of 130. Magic Bounce is a fantastic ability that does more than just reflect hazards, it reflects EVERYTHING that's not a direct attack. This means Espeon cannot be crippled by status, he can't be taunted, he can't be phazed, AND entry hazards go the other way. Even if Espeon cannot outright take on a Heatran or Ferrothorn, by reflecting their hazards, not only did your enemy waste time by not getting hazards on your side of the field, they essentially ended up setting hazards against themselves. Clearly, if Espeon doesn't carry the appropriate coverage, he can't defeat Heatran, but he can still be a thorn in his side and prevent him from setting up rocks.
As a magic bouncer, Espeon also has good offensive stats allowing it to be able to dish out some damage. Plus he also has a niche as dual screener. Seems to me to at least be B-rank.
espeon isn't anywhere near b-rank. listing out its stats and telling me it reflects EVERYTHING that isn't a direct attack is irrelevant; most of us know what espeon does. being immune to status, taunt, etc. is cool i guess, but that isn't how you beat espeon so it's largely insignificant. the way you defeat espeon, unsurprisingly, is simple attacking. espeon cannot beat the most common stealth rockers in the metagame. tyranitar can crunch it, hippowdon can just eq on the switch, heatran can just lava plume, ferrothorn can just power whip. if you don't get the picture, it's that espeon's terrible defenses make it a terrible answer to hazards. espeon's typing doesn't allow it to provide any team synergy which simply just creates a suboptimal build. why use espeon why you can use lati@s which check several top mons and can defog? excadrill, zapdos, etc. are all far more reliable. defog and rapid spin are reactive moves, meaning that you are losing a turn of momentum by using them; however, using a proactive ability such as magic bounce on espeon isn't worth your while. it ultimately comes down to the fact that espeon cannot check any stealth rocker effectively and threatens relatively few mons with its terrible typing. terrible typing, coverage, and synergy just makes it a terrible pokemon. absol at least can pursuit lati@s, have STAB knock off, check aegislash, etc. that's an interesting niche at least.
espeon for like D lol
espeon for like D lol
IK this was brought up recently but I want to expand on it. I think Honchkrow is really underrated. Not for any Scarf or Band set, but for a SubRoost set. Trust me, this thing is great. Try it, Adamant 252 Atk Honchkrow can do serious damage. Substitute and Brave Bird damage is surprisingly easy to deal with (not for the opponent :] ), and it is easy to scare something out in order to get a free Substitute, and its STABs have great coverage together along with incredible power. General cycle is: Sub > attack > Sub again when you see any opporutunity, even if only to Roost afterwards > attack. Repeat upon switching in and out. BTW, Rocks aren't huge when running Roost, so don't try that. It's survivability is pretty good with Substitute, Roost, and Leftovers helping it out.
I actually agree about Espeon being B but not because it is particular good but it is the best at what it does: magic bounce which is really the requirement for being at least B.
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.
Espeon is a major risk-reward mon as in if played correct it can function as a spin+stealth rock set in one turn but when misused it can just outright die without adding any value to a team. Fortunately, Espeon's ability has major psychological implications on an opponent. A player against Espeon cannot go for the outspeed and burn as consistently with mons such as Rotom-W if they see an Espeon on a team. While offensively it is outclassed it does fulfill the niche of magic bouncer better than anything else unless you wanna use Absol as your mega slot. Sure it cannot sweep through or wall a team but can fulfill a niche therefore it fits perfectly in B rank.
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.
Espeon is a major risk-reward mon as in if played correct it can function as a spin+stealth rock set in one turn but when misused it can just outright die without adding any value to a team. Fortunately, Espeon's ability has major psychological implications on an opponent. A player against Espeon cannot go for the outspeed and burn as consistently with mons such as Rotom-W if they see an Espeon on a team. While offensively it is outclassed it does fulfill the niche of magic bouncer better than anything else unless you wanna use Absol as your mega slot. Sure it cannot sweep through or wall a team but can fulfill a niche therefore it fits perfectly in B rank.
Why use an overly subpar anti-hazards Pokemon when you can use ballstastic Defoggers like Latias, who can not only force out threats with actually strong moves, but also remove hazards?
The issue is that Espeon is so one-dimensional that everyone knows what it's doing on a team. Regardless if you run a shitty Defensive set or a shitty Offensive set, he's still there to half-assedly bounce hazards and that can be easily worked around.
I'd honestly would put it in C- simply because he holds a unique enough niche that it isn't completely outclassed but is so conceptually horrendous that he performs this niche half-assedly.
acestriker19 espeon doesn't 'properly' fulfill an offensive role. don't confuse the relatively lackluster distribution of an ability as a niche; just because espeon can /fulfill/ the role of a magic bounce user, doesn't mean it's good. i've already explained why it's shitty. it loses to almost every common stealth rocker barring deo-s which sometimes runs knock off / psycho / superpower / spikes @ life orb, so it's so bleh. espeon doesn't really have that debilitating of a psychological advantage over your opponent. if i risk stealth rock, i can simply use defog as it's so reliable. it's a -2, of course, but using an espeon forces a 50/50 every turn you're against a stealth rocker. if you lose the 50/50, you either have a dead espeon with a presumably stealth rock weak team (why use offense with espeon unless it's stealth weak to some degree or built badly?) as your opponent uses it in the following turns, or your opponent sets stealth rock as your try to be cutesy and not switch in which results in a huge disadvantage. espeon provides no team synergy as well. excadrill, lati@s, etc. are far more reactive, yes, but they're also far more reliable and actually check pokemon in the metagame (latias checks a shitload like keldeo, thundy, zard-y; excadrill checks most lati@s and thundy, checks aegi, has steel typing..)
dbzmariogeno what synergy does honchrow even provide for a team? checking lati@s which will inevitably switch out? subroost sucker brave bird is walled by one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier, aegislash, along with allowing tyranitar, hippowdon, heatran, etc. to all set up stealth rock. sounds pretty shitty to me.
dbzmariogeno what synergy does honchrow even provide for a team? checking lati@s which will inevitably switch out? subroost sucker brave bird is walled by one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier, aegislash, along with allowing tyranitar, hippowdon, heatran, etc. to all set up stealth rock. sounds pretty shitty to me.
Honchkrow does not neccesarily provide synergy. It can be a standalone sweeper thanks to Moxie and a great STAB combo. Honchkrow can take a Stone Edge from a defensive Tyranitar without its Flying type thanks to Roost, and proceed to stall for 8 turns if it misses once every 4 turns (and it will.) Also, do not say Aegislash walls Brave Bird when it can't take a Sucker Punch. Kings Shield does not drop attack from a failed attack, and it will deal a ton of damage. Hippowdon walls it, but a lot of apokemon have counters. I'm not exactly arguing for S rank but it's obviously better then Malamar. Sorry for trying to redirect bad Venusaur and Deoxys-S discussion with something I actually wanted to start a discussion on. Dice
Espeon is not just for hazard setters. He's for anything that isn't a direct hit. Think of Magic Bounce as a variant of magic guard; if it doesn't deal straight damage, it'll do jack to Espeon. The only exception would be if hail or sand is up or if Espeon switches into hazards. Espeon works wonders against M-Venusaur and Sableye. Yeah, Espeon isn't particularly bulky. If the enemy predicts Espeon's switch in, then yeah he can get nailed hard. However, let's not use "prediction" as an argument because it works both ways. What if they predict Espeon's switch in, but predict wrong? Espeon's mere existence plays mind games on enemies. To set up hazards now or wait till Espeon is gone? Hidden power may have been nerfed, but it's still a thing. Ferrothorn wants to stay in on Espeon? Okay, he might get smacked with HP fire. Hippowodon wants to predict Espeon's switch in? Okay, EQ away and see if your prediction is right. If it is, great! If it isn't, then Hippowodon might've just wasted time on a flying pokemon.
No, Espeon is not the ultimate solution to all of your entry hazard woes. He's not going to be smashing through Tyranitar nor is he going to knock out Heatran (unless Espeon is carrying the odd HP ground, an unlikely sight), but he can be a nightmare for dedicated hazard setters like Smeargle and Deoxys-D. He can be an annoying bugger for defensive walls that can literally do nothing to Espeon except attack. Everyone knows that Espeon is immune to status, taunt, etc and that means they're not going to use it on Espeon... if they predict correctly. Will Espeon switch in on Heatran to predict the rocks? Will Heatran use Lava plume to predict the Espeon switch in? Mind games that you and your opponent have to play. Mind games that are high-risk and reward. If you're trying to take on Heatran head on with an Espeon and you don't pack something like HP ground, you're doing it wrong. Plus Espeon works on other things like Rotom-W's WoW, Skarmory's whirlwind, Thundurus-I's taunt.
Espeon provides a unique niche that can only be mimicked by two other pokemon; Xatu and M-Absol. M-Absol is a physical powerhouse while Espeon is a special attacker. M-Absol also takes your team's slot as a mega pokemon. Xatu share similar typing to Espeon, but is typically less offensive oriented.
While Magic Bounce is a great ability, Espeon himself is not dead weight. He may have sub-par typing, his bulk may not be great, and his coverage isn't fantastic either, but he's on a great speed tier and he hits fairly hard. His coverage may not be fantastic, but he has some options. Aside from Hidden power, Dazzling Gleam is also a thing, making things like Mandibuzz and dragons think twice before switching in.
Proactive moves are ALWAYS more efficient than reactive moves. The problem with proactive moves is that you have to predict correctly. Proactive moves are more efficient than reactive moves, but they're also less safe. Take for example your mentioning of Latias and defog. If you're using defog with Latias, you KNOW that there are already hazards on the field. Once you use defog, you'll know exactly what will happen, but as you said, you'll also lose momentum. For Espeon's magic bounce, you have to properly predict the Stealth Rocks. If you do, then not only would your opponent have wasted time, they'd have also done you a favor by setting up rocks against themselves, saving you time since you no longer need to set up rocks on their side of the field. If you predict wrong, you'll get nailed in the face. Proactive is more efficient. Reactive is more safe. Higher risk, higher reward. Also let's not forget that magic bounce does more than just bounce back hazards, it reflects ANYTHING that's not an attack. So if you predict your opponent to use WoW or taunt, or w/e, you can also switch your Espeon in on that.
Espeon for D rank? Lol no.
Because Espeon can simultaneously deny hazards on your side of the field while setting up hazards on their side of the field? Espeon actually has a higher Sp.atk stat than Latias and the only thing that Latias has that hits harder than Espeon's moves is Draco meteor.
Everyone knows what's Espeon doing? Okay... so is he the calm mind set or the dual screen set? Does he pack HP fire or some other HP? Does he have shadow ball? Dazzling Gleam? How about Baton pass, does he have that or some other move?
Seriously though, that's a bad argument. Everyone knows what Rotom-W is doing. He's being a bulky pivot that burns stuff. Does that make Rotom-W bad?
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While I'm not entirely sure about the viability of that set posted, honchkrow is most certainly not shitty dark/flying is a very good offensive typing and with the combination of superpower/heat wave, honchkrow has perfect neutral coverage. All of those mons you listed aren't walling him If the crows Packing LO or hell even a scarf
your logic is flawed and ignorant. espeon forces 50/50s which it has to win otherwise you have no other way of recovering from stealth rock (unless, of course, your team is built badly). espeon doesn't really "work wonders" against mega venu and sableye, the former often not even running a move that can be magic bounce'd while the latter hits it for a 2hko. the 'prediction is a two way street' argument is idiotic here; you're forced to win prediction with espeon while if i lose the prediction i can recover. deoxys-d is largely outclassed by deoxys-s and smeargle is quite a rare sight in this metagame. take the spl usage, it's only been used once in almost 25 teams and smeargle --> double switch on the espeon still gives me momentum. the thing is, you're practically forced to play aggressively with espeon if you want to succeed. you're also wrong yet again. proactive moves aren't more efficient than reactive in this case if you're forced to utilize such a shitty pokemon. the fact that you even mentioned switching into a taunt from thundurus-i is laughable. even skarmory can brave bird you.
espeon's niche may be unique, but that doesn't mean you should idolize it. espeon may be fast and have an "OK" special attack, but that doesn't mean it's a good attacker. it has terrible coverage, cannot effective keep SR of the field, and loses to all pokemon that try to attack it. to repeat: if you lose the 50/50, you're probably going to lose with your SR weak team. is that really a good pokemon? lol
Tyrant laharl i was just responding to the set posted. hippowdon still walls him btw lol! landorus-t is a solid check too. it's not that great ya'know.
dbzmariogeno all pokemon provide offensive and defensive synergy. "standalone sweepers" are bullshit; if you build and utilize a sweeper that provides no synergy to your team, you're practically hindering yourself. mega lucario, for example, is an offensive sweeper yet checks tyranitar and scizor. aegislash is a strong check and i don't really feel like arguing over something as trivial as that.
espeon's niche may be unique, but that doesn't mean you should idolize it. espeon may be fast and have an "OK" special attack, but that doesn't mean it's a good attacker. it has terrible coverage, cannot effective keep SR of the field, and loses to all pokemon that try to attack it. to repeat: if you lose the 50/50, you're probably going to lose with your SR weak team. is that really a good pokemon? lol
Tyrant laharl i was just responding to the set posted. hippowdon still walls him btw lol! landorus-t is a solid check too. it's not that great ya'know.
dbzmariogeno all pokemon provide offensive and defensive synergy. "standalone sweepers" are bullshit; if you build and utilize a sweeper that provides no synergy to your team, you're practically hindering yourself. mega lucario, for example, is an offensive sweeper yet checks tyranitar and scizor. aegislash is a strong check and i don't really feel like arguing over something as trivial as that.
Espeon's sheer fraility means it has to tread carefully against literally every hazard setter. When even stuff like Forretress can threaten to 2HKO you, you know your job of "anti-hazard" is put into question. If the hazards do end up on the field, either due to mispredictions or Espeon just losing to said hazard setter, it has failed its job and has become dead weight. Espeon may be immune to non-damaging moves, but most users of said moves can leave a huge dent in Espeon if they so much as touch it, so that is rendered moot. A good Magic Bouncer is supposed to stop most hazard setters cold, not halt them temporarily and then getting 2HKOed lol. If Espeon wants Dual Screens to be able to survive hits from them, it forgoes its offensive coverage so now it becomes easy setup fodder instead.
I'd sooner use Xatu over Espeon, since its overall bulk is better (most hazard setters are physical attackers, and Espeon isn't beating Heatran), Roost > Morning Sun in most cases, and it has more resists (namely Ground - Lando-T and Grass - Ferrothorn) to handle the hazard setters. Xatu still troubles dedicated hazard leads anyhow. Or just get a Spinner / Defogger. In this case, I'd say prevention is not better than cure.
I'd sooner use Xatu over Espeon, since its overall bulk is better (most hazard setters are physical attackers, and Espeon isn't beating Heatran), Roost > Morning Sun in most cases, and it has more resists (namely Ground - Lando-T and Grass - Ferrothorn) to handle the hazard setters. Xatu still troubles dedicated hazard leads anyhow. Or just get a Spinner / Defogger. In this case, I'd say prevention is not better than cure.
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Honchkrow isn't something that even struck me as OU viable (may have to mess around with it a bit now), but
I wanted to argue for Espeon at C- but trying to come up with arguments for it only made me realize more that it belongs in D. I guess it does threaten Mega Venu but I'd expect most teams to have something like Talonflame to do that already, and trying to 50/50 hazards every turn of the game isn't going to work favorably for you the majority of the time.
How is Honchkrow walled by Aegislash? Mixslash is potentially OHKO'd in shield form by LO Sucker Punch, 252/0 sets are 2hko'd in shield form regardless of Honchkrow's item. Unboosted Aegis gets a 2hko at best (it won't attack first on the second turn), and if using a boosting move (or King's Shield) is still essentially only getting a 2hko at best thanks to free subroost turns. Sucker Punch outspeeds Shadow Sneak as well, and blade forme isn't surviving anything. The only scenario I see Aegislash winning against Honchkrow is if it's Autotomize with Weakness Policy, which is by no means its most common build, nor will it ever be.
I wanted to argue for Espeon at C- but trying to come up with arguments for it only made me realize more that it belongs in D. I guess it does threaten Mega Venu but I'd expect most teams to have something like Talonflame to do that already, and trying to 50/50 hazards every turn of the game isn't going to work favorably for you the majority of the time.
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