Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

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I'm not a fan of those Venusaur calcs.

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 161-192 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I've literally never seen this much damage from Knock Off, and this is the Crawdaunt set I run, because all except one Venusaur I've ever seen have run physically defensive, and the only Crawdaunt that gets through physically defensive Mega Venusaur is LO DD Crawdaunt. Even then, it has to switch in on a boosted hit (Crunch, Knock Off, or Crabhammer). Alternately, Venusaur can run 56 Speed EVs on a neutral nature to outspeed Adamant Crawdaunt and KO with Giga Drain. Crawdaunt is abnormally powerful, but it doesn't stand a chance against Venusaur.
 
For Crawdaunt, it can be a pretty good wall breaker with either a CB or SD set. With its Adaptability Aqua Jets, its not a bad revenge killer either. Those are the only roles it does worth mentioning as the rest are either not OU viable, or outclassed by Azumarill completely. I believe those roles give it a C (ish) rank because Azumarill makes it difficult to choose, and its low defenses and speed make it difficult to consistently do much. I really don't care that much though, so as long as its not ranked higher than clearly superior pokemon, I'm ok

Edit: And finncent1 , read the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph of my last post
 
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Since I posted an in-depth message about Entei in the Entei thread, I decided to post it here as well because it was quite some work typing it and it fits well here. I feel like Entei being ranked B is pretty solid, but overall its a "B+" in my opinion because Sacred Fire gives it B status already IMO but other factors along with Sacred Fire this gen makes it a B+ rank. Explanation below:

While Sacred Fire is the core reason why Entei has had a sudden surge in viability, that isn't the sole reason. There are a few factors in this generational step that has made some changes to using Entei. After a tremendous amount of games both on Wifi against many players including skilled uploaders on youtube and on ladder on Showdown I have come up with a these findings that has made Entei much better this gen:

[1] - The incredible buff to Defog. Entei loves support / walls with Defog such as Mandibuzz (which I've been testing with Entei). The ability to wall many physical threats, taunt hazard setters and easily defog all hazards is amazing. Being stealth rock weak and prone to both spikes and sticky web is a huge problem, but this gens defog and Mandibuzz makes it so sweet for this Volcanic Beast.

[2] - The addition of the Sticky Web hazard. While this effects Entei as well, if you are running him you should have a good rapid spinner or preferebly a defogger in your team and get rid of the opponents hazards and learn how to set yours after. Unless they have both a defogger and a setter like you which is rare they will usually lose out on the hazard battle, as I've found it easy to take out their rapid spinners. Having Sticky Web out on the field this gen greatly helps Entei's above average speed to great levels, outspeeding Infernape, Garchomp, Terrakion, Keldeo, etc which suddenly can't switch into your Sacred Fires anymore as not only did they already risk being burned, but now get outsped and KOed by Sacred Fire. Overall if you manage to have stealth rock or just sticky web support along with a good defogger to help entei with stealth rock, spikes, and opposing sticky web you will realise just how much powerful this guy is.

[3] - The extremely high usage of Aegislash, Talonflame, and Mega Lucario. Entei actually checks these in three different ways that you wouldn't expect but that I've found over many games. Aegislash is the easy one - there's almost nothing it can do and your sacred fire is not only OHKO but it doesn't make contact rendering King's Shield useless stall against Entei. Talonflame is a commong switch in but fails to OHKO and gets 2HKOed by sacred fire (once on the switch and second time after brave bird) so you don't even need to predict the switch into stone edge, which enables you to keep spamming Sacred Fire after without being locked into Stone Edge. All other situations Talonflame loses to either a Stone Edge after failing to OHKO Entei or loses to Extreme Speed. Finally, Mega Lucario's adaptability close combat has a measily 30% chance to OHKO with close combat against an Entei with completely no defense / bulk investment. With some investment which is completely doable because of the forced adamant nature, it almost never OHKOs and gets OHKOed back by Sacred Fire, so I've realised many of my opponents who have had this experience actually switch out when Entei is facing their mega Lucario.

The Numbers showing failure to OHKO:
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 170-202 (89 - 105.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 142-168 (74.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 94-112 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO (with leftovers running perhaps Sword Dance)



[4] - Great options to allow Entei to enter the field. Volt-Turn Cores are a great idea to allow Entei to enter, and this gen there are some really powerful options that weren't present before. I've been having amazing success with Genesect, Mega Manetric, and even Noivern. The first two are definitely the two best new additions but Noivern's speed and niche lets it fit well if you know how to utilize it's strengths. You have the ever prominent Rotom-W just as strong this gen to help with slow Volt Switches as well. The point is you don't need to force half-viable volt-turn pokes onto your team for the nice entries with Entei, he has great powerful options that not only provide volt-turn but their own strengths. Genesect is a powerful attacker and cleaner that has it's only weakness covered by Entei, allowing to u-turn out of fire moves into safe entrance of Entei and Mega Manetric is a decent attacker that is amazing with Intimidating and Volt Switching out into a safe entrance of Entei especially if that poke is physical and just got intimidated.

[5] - Finally, we talk about Sacred Fire. As mentioned, this the core reason why Entei has more viability, but the reason's are more than what meets the eye. Sacred Fire on paper is already deadly enough, IMO one of the best moves in the game being 100BP almost max accuracy and packing a whopping 50% chance to burn. Backed by stab and choice band coming off 115 positive natured attack and you have a absolutely devastating ability that burns half the time. Incredible. It's good to send Entei in to deal with pokes vulnerable to Sacred Fire, this forces switches which we want when using the beast. This threatens switch ins to get hit hard even if resisted and spreads burns to the enemies teams. If played well, you will often cause several burns that cripple physical attackers / walls and wear down special attackers / walls.This not only puts pressure on the enemy team to ponder whether to make the switch in in the first place, e.g. switch in Terrakion, Tyranitar, Garchomp etc risking the burn. So against those that are neutral or weak to Sacred Fire Entei wrecks, and for those switch ins or checks the burn and sheer power behind the attack is still so damn difficult to deal with immediately making Entei a threat to any team.

Aside from burning, hitting hard and forcing switches, Entei while lacking great coverage, has a hard-hitting Stone Edge to deal with common switch ins and even flying types, and Extreme Speed is great for many situations with all the priority floating around in the tier (especially that damn brave bird). I do prefer Bulldoze as the last option to hit heatran, and if you predict wrong the 100% chance to lower speed is always beneficial to your team thereafter. All in all I'm pretty happy with the results I've been getting with Entei this gen, there's so much more to him now then there was before.
 
I'm not a fan of those Venusaur calcs.

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 161-192 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I've literally never seen this much damage from Knock Off, and this is the Crawdaunt set I run, because all except one Venusaur I've ever seen have run physically defensive, and the only Crawdaunt that gets through physically defensive Mega Venusaur is LO DD Crawdaunt. Even then, it has to switch in on a boosted hit (Crunch, Knock Off, or Crabhammer). Alternately, Venusaur can run 56 Speed EVs on a neutral nature to outspeed Adamant Crawdaunt and KO with Giga Drain. Crawdaunt is abnormally powerful, but it doesn't stand a chance against Venusaur.
Just so you know, CB Crunch 2HKOes even max HP / max Def+ Mega Venusaur, and Crawdaunt is not common enough to warrant using 56 EVs to outspeed it. Not only this, but under rain, even CB Crabhammer can 2HKO (maybe with a little bit of residual not sure). Will post about Crawdaunt tomorrow.
 
Since I posted an in-depth message about Entei in the Entei thread, I decided to post it here as well because it was quite some work typing it and it fits well here. I feel like Entei being ranked B is pretty solid, but overall its a "B+" in my opinion because Sacred Fire gives it B status already IMO but other factors along with Sacred Fire this gen makes it a B+ rank. Explanation below:

While Sacred Fire is the core reason why Entei has had a sudden surge in viability, that isn't the sole reason. There are a few factors in this generational step that has made some changes to using Entei. After a tremendous amount of games both on Wifi against many players including skilled uploaders on youtube and on ladder on Showdown I have come up with a these findings that has made Entei much better this gen:

[1] - The incredible buff to Defog. Entei loves support / walls with Defog such as Mandibuzz (which I've been testing with Entei). The ability to wall many physical threats, taunt hazard setters and easily defog all hazards is amazing. Being stealth rock weak and prone to both spikes and sticky web is a huge problem, but this gens defog and Mandibuzz makes it so sweet for this Volcanic Beast.

[2] - The addition of the Sticky Web hazard. While this effects Entei as well, if you are running him you should have a good rapid spinner or preferebly a defogger in your team and get rid of the opponents hazards and learn how to set yours after. Unless they have both a defogger and a setter like you which is rare they will usually lose out on the hazard battle, as I've found it easy to take out their rapid spinners. Having Sticky Web out on the field this gen greatly helps Entei's above average speed to great levels, outspeeding Infernape, Garchomp, Terrakion, Keldeo, etc which suddenly can't switch into your Sacred Fires anymore as not only did they already risk being burned, but now get outsped and KOed by Sacred Fire. Overall if you manage to have stealth rock or just sticky web support along with a good defogger to help entei with stealth rock, spikes, and opposing sticky web you will realise just how much powerful this guy is.

[3] - The extremely high usage of Aegislash, Talonflame, and Mega Lucario. Entei actually checks these in three different ways that you wouldn't expect but that I've found over many games. Aegislash is the easy one - there's almost nothing it can do and your sacred fire is not only OHKO but it doesn't make contact rendering King's Shield useless stall against Entei. Talonflame is a commong switch in but fails to OHKO and gets 2HKOed by sacred fire (once on the switch and second time after brave bird) so you don't even need to predict the switch into stone edge, which enables you to keep spamming Sacred Fire after without being locked into Stone Edge. All other situations Talonflame loses to either a Stone Edge after failing to OHKO Entei or loses to Extreme Speed. Finally, Mega Lucario's adaptability close combat has a measily 30% chance to OHKO with close combat against an Entei with completely no defense / bulk investment. With some investment which is completely doable because of the forced adamant nature, it almost never OHKOs and gets OHKOed back by Sacred Fire, so I've realised many of my opponents who have had this experience actually switch out when Entei is facing their mega Lucario.

The Numbers showing failure to OHKO:
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 170-202 (89 - 105.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 142-168 (74.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 94-112 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO (with leftovers running perhaps Sword Dance)



[4] - Great options to allow Entei to enter the field. Volt-Turn Cores are a great idea to allow Entei to enter, and this gen there are some really powerful options that weren't present before. I've been having amazing success with Genesect, Mega Manetric, and even Noivern. The first two are definitely the two best new additions but Noivern's speed and niche lets it fit well if you know how to utilize it's strengths. You have the ever prominent Rotom-W just as strong this gen to help with slow Volt Switches as well. The point is you don't need to force half-viable volt-turn pokes onto your team for the nice entries with Entei, he has great powerful options that not only provide volt-turn but their own strengths. Genesect is a powerful attacker and cleaner that has it's only weakness covered by Entei, allowing to u-turn out of fire moves into safe entrance of Entei and Mega Manetric is a decent attacker that is amazing with Intimidating and Volt Switching out into a safe entrance of Entei especially if that poke is physical and just got intimidated.

[5] - Finally, we talk about Sacred Fire. As mentioned, this the core reason why Entei has more viability, but the reason's are more than what meets the eye. Sacred Fire on paper is already deadly enough, IMO one of the best moves in the game being 100BP almost max accuracy and packing a whopping 50% chance to burn. Backed by stab and choice band coming off 115 positive natured attack and you have a absolutely devastating ability that burns half the time. Incredible. It's good to send Entei in to deal with pokes vulnerable to Sacred Fire, this forces switches which we want when using the beast. This threatens switch ins to get hit hard even if resisted and spreads burns to the enemies teams. If played well, you will often cause several burns that cripple physical attackers / walls and wear down special attackers / walls.This not only puts pressure on the enemy team to ponder whether to make the switch in in the first place, e.g. switch in Terrakion, Tyranitar, Garchomp etc risking the burn. So against those that are neutral or weak to Sacred Fire Entei wrecks, and for those switch ins or checks the burn and sheer power behind the attack is still so damn difficult to deal with immediately making Entei a threat to any team.

Aside from burning, hitting hard and forcing switches, Entei while lacking great coverage, has a hard-hitting Stone Edge to deal with common switch ins and even flying types, and Extreme Speed is great for many situations with all the priority floating around in the tier (especially that damn brave bird). I do prefer Bulldoze as the last option to hit heatran, and if you predict wrong the 100% chance to lower speed is always beneficial to your team thereafter. All in all I'm pretty happy with the results I've been getting with Entei this gen, there's so much more to him now then there was before.

Anything with VoltTurn, Sticky Web, and hazards support is extremely good.
I think Entei is fine in B.

Just so you know, CB Crunch 2HKOes even max HP / max Def+ Mega Venusaur, and Crawdaunt is not common enough to warrant using 56 EVs to outspeed it. Not only this, but under rain, even CB Crabhammer can 2HKO (maybe with a little bit of residual not sure). Will post about Crawdaunt tomorrow.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur in Rain: 214-252 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur in Rain: 158-187 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Only needed if it's 252 HP / 252+ Def
 
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

I challenge anyone to find me a better mixed wall than Deoxys-D. It's pretty much tied with Mega-Venusaur. The big difference is that Deoxys-D is for setting up hazards and using Taunt to keep the opponent from doing the same. It also has instant recovery and is very hard to 2HKO.
Where Venusaur has an offensive presence, Deoxys-D has the ultimate support movepool. Deoxys-D, IMO should be a solid candidate for S rank.
 
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

I challenge anyone to find me a better mixed wall than Deoxys-D. It's pretty much tied with Mega-Venusaur. The big difference is that Deoxys-D is for setting up hazards and using Taunt to keep the opponent from doing the same. It also has instant recovery and is very hard to 2HKO.
Where Venusaur has an offensive presence, Deoxys-D has the ultimate support movepool. Deoxys-D, IMO should be a solid candidate for S rank.
Deoxys-D isn't a wall, it's a hazard lead that can also set up hazards later in the game due to its bulk. It isn't meant to be used to wall threats and is no way comparable to Mega Venusaur in this role.
 
I challenge anyone to find me a better mixed wall than Deoxys-D. It's pretty much tied with Mega-Venusaur. The big difference is that Deoxys-D is for setting up hazards and using Taunt to keep the opponent from doing the same. It also has instant recovery and is very hard to 2HKO.
Where Venusaur has an offensive presence, Deoxys-D has the ultimate support movepool. Deoxys-D, IMO should be a solid candidate for S rank.

Well, Cresselia outclasses it at that role mate. Better bulk, barely less speed, option to be offensive. At the end of the day, Mono Psychic typing is simply a terrible defensive typing as it lacks what walls should have: Resistances. While a Fighting resist is nice... that's where it ends. Bulk isn't only stats, after all.
 
Well, Cresselia outclasses it at that role mate. Better bulk, barely less speed, option to be offensive. At the end of the day, Mono Psychic typing is simply a terrible defensive typing as it lacks what walls should have: Resistances. While a Fighting resist is nice... that's where it ends. Bulk isn't only stats, after all.
Regardless of typing, it's very hard to 2HKO. It's obviously possible, but it's not an easy task.
 
Well, Cresselia outclasses it at that role mate. Better bulk, barely less speed, option to be offensive. At the end of the day, Mono Psychic typing is simply a terrible defensive typing as it lacks what walls should have: Resistances. While a Fighting resist is nice... that's where it ends. Bulk isn't only stats, after all.
How does cresselia outclass a pokemon with reliable 16 pp recovery, stealth rock, spikes and taunt. How is cresselia even remotely comparable to deoxys-d to begin with.
 
Deo-d is probably the best hazard lead out there and should be used as such, with teammates to abuse defog, like bisharp. He is not a wall, there are better pokemon with better resistances and better offensive presence to do that, like mega-venusaur. He is not comparable to cresselia, cresselia is a screener and a wall that can actually attack back somewhat. You can even go sub cm if or crocress with moonblast if you're feeling super-ballsy.

Basically deo-d should be being compared to other hazard leads, like galvantula or smeargle, not walls like mega-venusaur.
 
Regardless of typing, it's very hard to 2HKO. It's obviously possible, but it's not an easy task.

Yes, I'm not denying that.

How does cresselia outclass a pokemon with reliable 16 pp recovery, stealth rock, spikes and taunt. How is cresselia even remotely comparable to deoxys-d to begin with.

Cresselia outclasses Deo-D as a mixed wall, not as a hazards lead. The only thing Deo has over Cress is 16 pp in the recovery department, as a wall.
And, no I'm not saying Deo-D as a wall is a set to even consider running.
 
Infernape needs to be used as a lead more. It gets access to taunt, and has good enough type coverage especially with iron fist Thunder punch, and iron fist+stab fire punch, as well as boosted mach punch.
 
Cresselia outclasses Deo-D as a mixed wall, not as a hazards lead. The only thing Deo has over Cress is 16 pp in the recovery department, as a wall.
And, no I'm not saying Deo-D as a wall is a set to even consider running.
Take a moment and read what you typed. It has better recovery and can actually do something while on the field instead of being a literal sitting duck, its the better wall of the two easily. If you think deoxys-d is limited to being a lead (why are you even running this when deo-s exists) you clearly have never faced sp def deoxys-d, a fucking pain to deal with that can easily setup hazards all over your field while laughing at spinners with rocky helmet. I have zero issues with deoxys-d going S rank since its so dam good at setuping hazards and shutting down attempts at removing them, but instead of relying on speed like deo-s its using its sheer bulk to outright wall a bunch of things.
 
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 380-447 (125 - 147%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 262-309 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 138-163 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 213-252 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 151-179 (49.6 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 178-210 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 160-188 (52.6 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 291-346 (95.7 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 184-217 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D in Sun: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 186-219 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 236-278 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


A great wall? Yes, hardly 2HKOed? Not really, at least 1 of the pokemons above is on every team. Deoxys-S outclasses it thnx to that unrivaled speed. Deoxys-S has also enough bulk to survive priority. So Deoxys-S can lay up minimum of 2 hazards, Deoxys-D sometimes can't even put 1. It's also easily taunted.

Deoxys-S also has extremely fast taunt, not only that, but it has enough power to do something with Fire Punch/HP Fire and Ice Beam against x4 pokemons, Deoxys-D can't. Deoxys-S is MUCH more versatile.

I don't know why you'd be using Deo-D over Deo-S.
 
Infernape needs to be used as a lead more. It gets access to taunt, and has good enough type coverage especially with iron fist Thunder punch, and iron fist+stab fire punch, as well as boosted mach punch.
Sorry to disappoint you, but the lead metagame is nearly dead. Infernape used to be a popular lead, but team preview killed that.
Infernape is pretty mediocre, IMO. It's Attack and Speed are only slightly above average. It misses out on OHKOs without a Band, and it's outsped by many checks and counters (Gengar, Alakazam, Starmie, Mega-Lucario, Greninja, etc).
 
So it doesn't require any support to fulfill its role, walls a significant portion of the metagame, and has little opportunity cost?
That sounds like S to me.
1. S rank pokemon pretty much need versatility in that they can cover multiple roles very effectively. Lucario, Genesect, and Aegislash can go physical or special, Venusaur can stall or tank, and Deoxys can hazard stall and be offensive. Deoxys-D can set hazards and wall, but if it sets hazards, it almost never has enough offensive presense to outdamage any of the things it walls.
2. There are so many things that hit Deoxys-D for SE 2HKO damage, that it doesn't wall a significant portion of the metagame. See Professional2341 's post that he just did as I was typing

Sorry to disappoint you, but the lead metagame is nearly dead. Infernape used to be a popular lead, but team preview killed that.
Infernape is pretty mediocre, IMO. It's Attack and Speed are only slightly above average. It misses out on OHKOs without a Band, and it's outsped by many checks and counters (Gengar, Alakazam, Starmie, Mega-Lucario, Greninja, etc).
Infernape's still a great scout, and can destroy fast threats with a scarfed set. IMO, its the best "fast'n'frail" and scarf mon check, so its still viable as a pokemon, even if its role as a lead is no longer the great niche it once was.
 
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252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 380-447 (125 - 147%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 262-309 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 138-163 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 213-252 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 151-179 (49.6 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 178-210 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 160-188 (52.6 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 291-346 (95.7 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 184-217 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D in Sun: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 186-219 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 236-278 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


A great wall? Yes, hardly 2HKOed? Not really, at least 1 of the pokemons above is on every team. Deoxys-S outclasses it thnx to that unrivaled speed. Deoxys-S has also enough bulk to survive priority. So Deoxys-S can lay up minimum of 2 hazards, Deoxys-D sometimes can't even put 1. It's also easily taunted.

Deoxys-S also has extremely fast taunt, not only that, but it has enough power to do something with Fire Punch/HP Fire and Ice Beam against x4 pokemons, Deoxys-D can't. Deoxys-S is MUCH more versatile.

I don't know why you'd be using Deo-D over Deo-S.
Deoxys-D is not a suicide lead, its lasting through the game and is going to get as many layers of hazards as possible until you manage to kill it. Its completely different from deoxys-s and should not be said to be outclassed by it.
 
Take a moment and read what you typed. It has better recovery and can actually do something while on the field instead of being a literal sitting duck, its the better wall of the two easily. If you think deoxys-d is limited to being a lead (why are you even running this when deo-s exists) you clearly have never faced sp def deoxys-d, a fucking pain to deal with that can easily setup hazards all over your field while laughing at spinners with rocky helmet. I have zero issues with deoxys-d going S rank since its so dam good at setuping hazards and shutting down attempts at removing them, but instead of relying on speed like deo-s its using its sheer bulk to outright wall a bunch of things.
Fine. I screwed up. I made a hilariously bad argument. Now I'll go and cry at my stupidity whilst sleeping and sobering up. Don't be so aggressive tho. I don't like aggressive attitudes, unwarranted. Or continue being it, idc really.
 
Sorry to disappoint you, but the lead metagame is nearly dead. Infernape used to be a popular lead, but team preview killed that.
Infernape is pretty mediocre, IMO. It's Attack and Speed are only slightly above average. It misses out on OHKOs without a Band, and it's outsped by many checks and counters (Gengar, Alakazam, Starmie, Mega-Lucario, Greninja, etc).

I don't think 108 speed is "above average", last gen, Keldeo & Terrakion was known for their good speed, and guess what, they have base 108 Speed, it also outspeeds Garchomp, another pokemon known for it's good speed.

Now it's not Greninja fast, but it has Iron Fist CB/LO Priority, you don't need to outspeed Greninja and Mega Luc, you OHKO with Mach Punch, Gengar doesn't OHKO (12.5% chance if holding LO), Starmie can't switch in on T-Punch, and Alakazam can't switch in on Flare Blitz. The only thing stopping it is Talonflame and such, other than that, it's a great counter for a lot of mons such as Aegislash. Infernape is EXTREMELY Versatile too, Infernape is good where it's at though.

Because Deoxys-D can live to set the hazards again if needed.
Deoxys-D is not a suicide lead, its lasting through the game and is going to get as many layers of hazards as possible until you manage to kill it. Its completely different from deoxys-s and should not be said to be outclassed by it.

Yes true, but unlike Deo-S, it is taunted easily, Crobat is growing popular, and ofcourse much more pokemon are carrying taunt, Infernape, Krookodile etc. Sometimes even Talonflame (Tailwind/WoW/Taunt support).

It's also not as versatile as Deo-S, I'm not saying Deo-D is bad, no, it's quite good, and depending on your team you will sometimes prefer it over Deo-S, but it's certainly not an S pokemon. A is actually really fitting.
 
I don't think 108 speed is "above average", last gen, Keldeo & Terrakion was known for their good speed, and guess what, they have base 108 Speed, it also outspeeds Garchomp, another pokemon known for it's good speed.

Now it's not Greninja fast, but it has Iron Fist CB/LO Priority, you don't need to outspeed Greninja and Mega Luc, you OHKO with Mach Punch, Gengar doesn't OHKO (12.5% chance if holding LO), Starmie can't switch in on T-Punch, and Alakazam can't switch in on Flare Blitz. The only thing stopping it is Talonflame and such, other than that, it's a great counter for a lot of mons such as Aegislash. Infernape is EXTREMELY Versatile too, Infernape is good where it's at though.
I wasn't trying to knock Infernape. I was just explaining why it isn't as used as it use to be.
Yes true, but unlike Deo-S, it is taunted easily, Crobat is growing popular, and ofcourse much more pokemon are carrying taunt, Infernape, Krookodile etc. Sometimes even Talonflame (Tailwind/WoW/Taunt support).

It's also not as versatile as Deo-S, I'm not saying Deo-D is bad, no, it's quite good, and depending on your team you will sometimes prefer it over Deo-S, but it's certainly not an S pokemon. A is actually really fitting.
Yes, it can be Taunted more easily, but what common Taunt user both outspeeds and 2HKOs it?
Like I said, it can be done, but I've never seen a Taunt Talonflame or Krookodile in OU. It also commonly uses Seismic Toss or Night Shade, so Taunt isn't a total cripple.

EDIT: Also, Deoxys-D, unlike Deoxys-S, is not a suicide lead. It's meant to stay around for a while, so if you're setting up some hazards midgame (Rapid Spin and Defog exist), Deoxys-D isn't likely to come in on something that could just Taunt it.
 
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