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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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Deoxys-D has two flaws that keep it from being S rank in my opinion 1. support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost. ("free turns") .
Lets look at how much offensive presence spiker Deoxys has... well the answer is none really. Sesimic toss is its most threating offensive more which is maybe... a 3HKO at most. Deoxys Defense is set up fodder it doesn't matter how many spikes you set up if you let your opponent get to get a free SD/NP on his Lucario or a free Dragon Dances on his Dragonite. Deoxys-D gives free turns and that is the first issue that keeps it away from S.
The second issue is that S is Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability.
How versatile is Deoxys-D well I'm just going to list off its possible moves: Recover, Stealth Rock, Taunt, Reflect, Light Screen, Night Shade, Sesimic Toss, Toxic, Spikes... Magic Coat. This is not versatile and completely predictable, Deoxys-D doesn't have offensive presence with any set and because of this can be countered easily by set-up sweepers and taunters. Taunt again plays into the free turns aspect once Deoxys-D is taunted you either have to give up HP and more free turns staying in or switch and give up that turn to your opponent. These two reasons keep Deoxys-D from being S. Its fine where it is right now.
Lets look at how much offensive presence spiker Deoxys has... well the answer is none really. Sesimic toss is its most threating offensive more which is maybe... a 3HKO at most. Deoxys Defense is set up fodder it doesn't matter how many spikes you set up if you let your opponent get to get a free SD/NP on his Lucario or a free Dragon Dances on his Dragonite. Deoxys-D gives free turns and that is the first issue that keeps it away from S.
The second issue is that S is Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability.
How versatile is Deoxys-D well I'm just going to list off its possible moves: Recover, Stealth Rock, Taunt, Reflect, Light Screen, Night Shade, Sesimic Toss, Toxic, Spikes... Magic Coat. This is not versatile and completely predictable, Deoxys-D doesn't have offensive presence with any set and because of this can be countered easily by set-up sweepers and taunters. Taunt again plays into the free turns aspect once Deoxys-D is taunted you either have to give up HP and more free turns staying in or switch and give up that turn to your opponent. These two reasons keep Deoxys-D from being S. Its fine where it is right now.
Taunt prevents setup. 3HKO isn't terrible from a dedicated wall.
Okay first of all at best a 3HKO is not very good when the 3HKOs anything below base 95 hp univested which is not very many OU viable mons. Second, where does Deoxys-D have room to run taunt, to use taunt is to give up spikes, rocks, recover or seismic toss. Out of these you would give up rocks or spikes thus decreasing Deoxys-Ds usability in its real job of setting up hazards, the two I pointed out actually outspeed when invested and are able to score one boost before Deoxys-D taunts them. Base 90 uninvested is not a fast taunt at all and cannot be used to stop set-up sweepers from boosting. Deoxys-D does not fit the requirements to be S so I reiterate: Its fine where it is.
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Thunder Wave
Taunt
it's a pretty standard red card set and entirely viable as he outruns most SR users and those he can't he can twave on a switch in
Spikes
Thunder Wave
Taunt
it's a pretty standard red card set and entirely viable as he outruns most SR users and those he can't he can twave on a switch in
Deoxys-S is BL, and Galvantula is the best offensive Sticky Web user... I'm pretty tired of the weird/inaccurate arguments that seem to be popular in this thread, I'm gonna take a break.
'Best offensive sticky web user' is a very low hurdle to clear given the move's piss-poor distribution.
Here's my view on some of the tops threats of the metagame right now.
Pinsir - I honestly think that Pinsir should be put in S rank. It's incredible power and amazing Speed makes it so good right now, and it's so hard to revenge kill because it's bulky enough to live most priority attacks. The only offensive threats that keep it in check are Mamoswine, Thundurus-I, Talonflame, and bulky Choice Scarf users. It's checks are few and far between, and most of them are pretty easily worn down, like Rotom-W and Thundurus-I. The only real down side to using Pinsir is the SR weakness, but removing hazards has never been so easy, with Excadrill being a great Rapid Spinner and Defogers being everywhere. Plus, Pinsir is only x2 weak to SR before it Mega Evolves, so it really isn't too big of a deal to have Stealth Rock up.
Deoxys-S - Another S rank Pokemon that I think could be moved down to A+. I think it's ability to set up entry hazards isn't nearly as scary as it used to be, just because Excadrill and Defog users can remove them pretty easily. HO teams go to a lot of trouble just to keep their hazards up (using Bisharp + a spin blocker), and even then they can be removed. The full out attacker set is still incredibly dangerous with it's incredible speed and coverage, which is why I'd class is as A+ rank.
I could also see Skarmory being bumped up to A rank, just because it's one of the few Defogers that can beat Bisharp and has incredible synergy with Venusaur, but I haven't had too much experience with Skarmory yet so that's just food for thought.
alexwolf EDIT: Removed the stuff about Rotom-W and Mega Venusaur.
Pinsir - I honestly think that Pinsir should be put in S rank. It's incredible power and amazing Speed makes it so good right now, and it's so hard to revenge kill because it's bulky enough to live most priority attacks. The only offensive threats that keep it in check are Mamoswine, Thundurus-I, Talonflame, and bulky Choice Scarf users. It's checks are few and far between, and most of them are pretty easily worn down, like Rotom-W and Thundurus-I. The only real down side to using Pinsir is the SR weakness, but removing hazards has never been so easy, with Excadrill being a great Rapid Spinner and Defogers being everywhere. Plus, Pinsir is only x2 weak to SR before it Mega Evolves, so it really isn't too big of a deal to have Stealth Rock up.
Deoxys-S - Another S rank Pokemon that I think could be moved down to A+. I think it's ability to set up entry hazards isn't nearly as scary as it used to be, just because Excadrill and Defog users can remove them pretty easily. HO teams go to a lot of trouble just to keep their hazards up (using Bisharp + a spin blocker), and even then they can be removed. The full out attacker set is still incredibly dangerous with it's incredible speed and coverage, which is why I'd class is as A+ rank.
I could also see Skarmory being bumped up to A rank, just because it's one of the few Defogers that can beat Bisharp and has incredible synergy with Venusaur, but I haven't had too much experience with Skarmory yet so that's just food for thought.
alexwolf EDIT: Removed the stuff about Rotom-W and Mega Venusaur.
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I really want an entry for Thundrus-T on the list, preferably starting at B. The guy has NP, Amazing SpA along with decent speed and his typing grants him a few extra perks this gen.
I also want to bump Charizard X to S-Tier, this pokemon can take on most if not all (excluding 2 pokemon) with just his STABs and easily OHKO Azuarill and Heatran with his remaining slots if the users chooses to (both of them are 2HKO'd with resisted moves after a single DD, Flare Blitz and Outrage respectively). With 120 BP Stab moves, x1.33 boosts and 130 Atk along with respectable physical bulk and resistances (a Dragon that doesn't give a crap about Ice, Steels and Fairies? Yes plz), even Physical walls are 2HKO'd after a single DD. You can't even burn it if you want to. Not to mention recovery, status and a good movepool to complete his credentials.
Edit:
*image added for increased psychological and emotional effect and jury manipulation
I also want to bump Charizard X to S-Tier, this pokemon can take on most if not all (excluding 2 pokemon) with just his STABs and easily OHKO Azuarill and Heatran with his remaining slots if the users chooses to (both of them are 2HKO'd with resisted moves after a single DD, Flare Blitz and Outrage respectively). With 120 BP Stab moves, x1.33 boosts and 130 Atk along with respectable physical bulk and resistances (a Dragon that doesn't give a crap about Ice, Steels and Fairies? Yes plz), even Physical walls are 2HKO'd after a single DD. You can't even burn it if you want to. Not to mention recovery, status and a good movepool to complete his credentials.
Edit:
*image added for increased psychological and emotional effect and jury manipulation
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I knew something was missing from the viability list...
Nominating Lucario for B Rank
Lucario has been an incredible offensive Pokemon ever since its introduction in Gen IV (DPPt). With a versatile movepool and great mixed stats to complement, Lucario excels at sweeping late-game with its tried and true Swords Dance set.
A powerful Extreme Speed is one of Lucario's merits when it comes to sweeping. An Adamant +2 Life Orb Boosted Extreme Speed can spell game for a weakened offensive team. Extreme Speed finds more merit than ever before thanks to the prevalence of one of OU's most dangerous priority abusers, Talonflame.
Close Combat is a powerful STAB capable of 2HKOing a majority of the defensive Pokemon that reside in OU. Anything slower than Lucario is doomed to be hit by its Close Combat and not many can take a hit and shrug it off too comfortably.
Crunch rounds out the set with (near) perfect coverage hitting Aegislash for super-effective damage, a Pokemon that would normally force out or KO Lucario.
Although it's not really a valid reason, the offensive buff to Dark Type moves have made them ever so more popular to utilize. This works in favor for Justified Lucario, as gaining a free +1 Attack boost on the switch is great for Lucario.
All of these positive traits make Lucario look an extremely promising Pokemon capable of 6-0ing teams.
However
Lucario has several glaring flaws that have only been magnified in the XY OU metagame ; these flaws are severe enough to hold Lucario back in B Rank, in my opinion.
The prevalence of Ghost Types (thanks to the buff) makes Lucario's life harder than ever. There innate immunity to Extreme Speed and Close Combat forces Lucario to run Crunch for coverage. This makes it harder for Lucario to run other moves such as Bullet Punch, Ice Punch or even Earthquake.
Fairy Type Pokemon are straight up troublesome for Lucario ; while a +2 Close Combat will dent any Fairy Pokemon severely, they are capable of retaliating and finishing Lucario's sweep earlier.
Lucario also still suffers from 4MSS and it only got worse with XY. Various new threats demand different attack responses from Lucario and unless Lucario gets a fifth moveslot, there's no way Lucario can finish all of the threats on its own ; this in turn makes Lucario much more team dependent (which isn't bad - just holds Lucario back from reaching higher ranks).
tl;dr - Lucario has the offensive potential to reach high ranks easily. It's offensive ability alone, automatically places it above C Rank easily. However, Lucario's flaws are hard to ignore and demand some serious team support, making it difficult for Lucario to be self-efficient, a trait many A Rank Pokemon possess.
...however if anyone can convince me that Lucario is A-Rank, I'll gladly hop on with their argument
;]
;]
Mega-Lucario is S-Rank, but not Lucario.
Added a ''Conclusion reached'' Pokemon category in the OP and fixed the Salamence error.
1. Celebi fares much better than Mega Venusaur against your typical dedicated sand and rain team. Unlike Mega Venusaur, Celebi has reliable recovery instead of 25% recovery and no Lefties under weather, which means that it's actually able to switch in as long as he wants against the Pokemon it walls, instead of being forced to be super careful and conserve its HP until the end, just to check Excadrill or Terrakion. Also, thanks to its Ground resistance, physically defensive Celebi walls Sand Rush Excadrill without SD (the most common set from my experience), as well as taking anything Terrakion can throw at it, except from CB Stone Edge. The same is true against rain teams. While Celebi may not be able to wall CB Azumarill without using max Def+ and can't switch in at all into Crawdaunt, the fact that it stops cold so many members of a rain team (Politoed, Tentacruel, Keldeo, Starmie, Kabutops, Thundurus, and more) while checking some more (Azumarill and Goodra), combined with reliable recovery and Natural Cure make it much more suited at handling rain teams than Mega Venusaur.
2. Celebi can fit on sand and rain teams, unlike Mega Venusaur. This is obvious, but a defensive Pokemon can't function without reliable recovery. So unless you plan on going on the offensive, with a 3 attacks + Leech Seed set, Mega Venusaur doesn't fit well on dedicated weather abusing teams.
3. Celebi offers more team support than Mega Venusaur. Celebi can successfully utilize all of Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, U-turn, Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, and Baton Pass, with the most significant of those being Stealth Rock and U-turn. With those two moves, Celebi fits nicely on many Volt-turn teams, serving as the team's answer to Rotom-W, reliable SR setter, and a great pivot.
4. Celebi counters 100% Rotom-W and is not as easy as Mega Venusaur to wear down. Thanks to Natural Cure and Leftovers, Celebi doesn't care at all about getting burned or SR being up, while if Mega Venusaur is burned and SR is up, Mega Venusaur is taking 25% damage + Volt Switch damage every time it switches into Rotom-W, which is not a reliable way of handling Rotom-W at all. I am not doubting that Mega Venusar is a great check to the washing machine, but for teams that want a full stop to Rotom-W and something that isn't so easy to wear down with SR, Celebi is a very viable alternative.
5. Celebi doesn't occupy your Mega Slot. Teams with other excellent MEvos, such as Mega Lucario, Mega Pinsir, Mega Mawile, and Mega Garchomp, can't use Mega Venusaur, so Celebi becomes one of your best options for a bulky Grass-type.
Obviously being incredibly weak to extremely common and effective Pokemon such as Genesect, Mega Charizard X + Y, Aegislash, Bisharp, and Talonflame sucks, and this is why i am only nominating Celebi for B Rank and not any higher, as you will need significant team support to cover its weaknesses.
Kyurem-B for A+ Rank. What is this monster doing in A Rank i don't even.... Honestly i feel stupid that i even have to talk about this one. Kyu-B is one of the best wallbreakers in the game, arguably the best and on par with Mega Char Y, but unlike Mega Char Y it doesn't occupy your Mega Slot and is not 4x weak to Stealth Rock, while also possessing tremendous bulk on both sides of the spectrum. Yeah it is SR weak, has mediocre Speed for an offensive Pokemon, and is easy to revenge kill, but aside from the SR weakness, which is not hard at all to cover, the other weaknesses don't intercept at all Kyu-B's job, which is to wallbreak. So what if Kyu-B is weak to common offensive types (Fighting, Rock, Steel, Dragon), if it has already ripped apart your defensive core? Similarly, what does it matter if it is outsped by most offensive Pokemon when it outspeeds every single wall in OU? Not to mention that thanks to its useful typing and great bulk, Kyu-B has a lot of use even against offensive teams, as it checks top tier threats such as Rotom-W, Manaphy, Greninja, and Mega Venusaur.
So, Kyu-B is one of the best wallbreakers in OU, which also acts as a great check to many offensive Pokemon, while needing very little support to function (basically just have a way to deal with SR). It is a blasphemy to have Mega Charizard Y in A+ but not Kyurem-B.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-viability-ranking-thread.3495992/page-17#post-5105274
DD Crawdaunt sucks, never use it. Either use CB or LO + 3 attacks + SD. Azumarill is leagues behind Crawdaunt's wallbreaking potential, so Azumarill doesn't outclass it, although it does give it significant competition as a strong physical Water-type with priority. Anyway, Crawdaunt is an unstoppable wallbreaker in rain, but it needs a ton of support and its low Speed and frailty often make it very difficult to switch in and attack, and for this reason it should be C+.
Moving on...OP said:
Agreeing with this, and i would like to go one step further, and suggest Celebi for B Rank. Here are the reasons:escaralata said:
1. Celebi fares much better than Mega Venusaur against your typical dedicated sand and rain team. Unlike Mega Venusaur, Celebi has reliable recovery instead of 25% recovery and no Lefties under weather, which means that it's actually able to switch in as long as he wants against the Pokemon it walls, instead of being forced to be super careful and conserve its HP until the end, just to check Excadrill or Terrakion. Also, thanks to its Ground resistance, physically defensive Celebi walls Sand Rush Excadrill without SD (the most common set from my experience), as well as taking anything Terrakion can throw at it, except from CB Stone Edge. The same is true against rain teams. While Celebi may not be able to wall CB Azumarill without using max Def+ and can't switch in at all into Crawdaunt, the fact that it stops cold so many members of a rain team (Politoed, Tentacruel, Keldeo, Starmie, Kabutops, Thundurus, and more) while checking some more (Azumarill and Goodra), combined with reliable recovery and Natural Cure make it much more suited at handling rain teams than Mega Venusaur.
2. Celebi can fit on sand and rain teams, unlike Mega Venusaur. This is obvious, but a defensive Pokemon can't function without reliable recovery. So unless you plan on going on the offensive, with a 3 attacks + Leech Seed set, Mega Venusaur doesn't fit well on dedicated weather abusing teams.
3. Celebi offers more team support than Mega Venusaur. Celebi can successfully utilize all of Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, U-turn, Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, and Baton Pass, with the most significant of those being Stealth Rock and U-turn. With those two moves, Celebi fits nicely on many Volt-turn teams, serving as the team's answer to Rotom-W, reliable SR setter, and a great pivot.
4. Celebi counters 100% Rotom-W and is not as easy as Mega Venusaur to wear down. Thanks to Natural Cure and Leftovers, Celebi doesn't care at all about getting burned or SR being up, while if Mega Venusaur is burned and SR is up, Mega Venusaur is taking 25% damage + Volt Switch damage every time it switches into Rotom-W, which is not a reliable way of handling Rotom-W at all. I am not doubting that Mega Venusar is a great check to the washing machine, but for teams that want a full stop to Rotom-W and something that isn't so easy to wear down with SR, Celebi is a very viable alternative.
5. Celebi doesn't occupy your Mega Slot. Teams with other excellent MEvos, such as Mega Lucario, Mega Pinsir, Mega Mawile, and Mega Garchomp, can't use Mega Venusaur, so Celebi becomes one of your best options for a bulky Grass-type.
Obviously being incredibly weak to extremely common and effective Pokemon such as Genesect, Mega Charizard X + Y, Aegislash, Bisharp, and Talonflame sucks, and this is why i am only nominating Celebi for B Rank and not any higher, as you will need significant team support to cover its weaknesses.
Kyurem-B for A+ Rank. What is this monster doing in A Rank i don't even.... Honestly i feel stupid that i even have to talk about this one. Kyu-B is one of the best wallbreakers in the game, arguably the best and on par with Mega Char Y, but unlike Mega Char Y it doesn't occupy your Mega Slot and is not 4x weak to Stealth Rock, while also possessing tremendous bulk on both sides of the spectrum. Yeah it is SR weak, has mediocre Speed for an offensive Pokemon, and is easy to revenge kill, but aside from the SR weakness, which is not hard at all to cover, the other weaknesses don't intercept at all Kyu-B's job, which is to wallbreak. So what if Kyu-B is weak to common offensive types (Fighting, Rock, Steel, Dragon), if it has already ripped apart your defensive core? Similarly, what does it matter if it is outsped by most offensive Pokemon when it outspeeds every single wall in OU? Not to mention that thanks to its useful typing and great bulk, Kyu-B has a lot of use even against offensive teams, as it checks top tier threats such as Rotom-W, Manaphy, Greninja, and Mega Venusaur.
So, Kyu-B is one of the best wallbreakers in OU, which also acts as a great check to many offensive Pokemon, while needing very little support to function (basically just have a way to deal with SR). It is a blasphemy to have Mega Charizard Y in A+ but not Kyurem-B.
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Mega Pokemon are not rated seperately from their unMega-evolved Pokemon (except for different Mega forms such as Charizard X and Y).
They can be if the need arises. For example, Mega Heracross and Mega Blatoise are rated only as MEvos, and regular Lucario, who is not rated at all for the moment, will be 100% put on a lower rank than Mega Lucario. So basically, MEvos are treated as separate Pokemon for the rankings.
Good reason for this, though...Mega Alakazam sucks compared to most of the other megas.
I second this. I've personally used Kyurem-B and it is quite difficult to entirely stop it. Every time I bring it out, it gets at least one KO--sometimes two. People tend to underestimate it because it's "not high in the tierzzz"
I highly agree with putting Mega Pinsir in S Rank. It demands a check/counter on every team, and fits the definition of S Rank perfectly -- a Pokemon that requires little support and can sweep through a large portion of the metagame. Very little in OU can go toe-to-toe with Mega Pinsir and live to tell the tale.
Skarmory I think belongs in A Rank. It's a sturdy check to all kinds of things, including Garchomp and Mega Pinsir, and provides invaluable Defog + SR support. It can phaze if you want it to, and has reliable recovery. It is a true team player and deserves A Rank for sure.
Lucario, B-. I've faced some, and honestly they're outclassed by Mega Lucario (naturally) and are just a tad to slow. With ESpeed rk'ing isn't an easy task, but even taking hits from it isn't /that/ difficult. However, its sweeping potential easily puts it in B-.
Supporting S Rank nomination
A lot has been said already for Mega Pinsir and to be honest, I don't think one can argue otherwise. Mega Pinsir's golden ticket into S Rank has to be the combination of Aerialate and Quick Attack. In a metagame where priority thrives, Mega Pinsir fits right in.
However, I feel that one thing should be taken into consideration. The number of offensive checks that exist seem a little too unhealthy for Mega Pinsir.
Sash Mamoswine can easily come in for a revenge kill, eating up a Quick Attack or taking an Return with the Sash. Talonflame is another huge issue for Mega Pinsir as Brave Bird seals the deal on Mega Pinsir, no questions asked. Scarfed Tyranitar, while rare, is still a check to be considered as a Stone Edge is a clean OHKO on Mega Pinsir. Scarfed Landorus-T, Scarfed Terrakion and Scarfed Genesect all play the same game with Mega Pinsir. Air Balloon Heatran while it is a bit of a stretch, works nonetheless. I'm not saying Mega Pinsir shouldn't go up - I'm just wondering if all of these various conditions have been considered before throwing him up there. Mega Pinsir is more than capable of sweeping the entire OU metagame ; it's just a matter of how consistently he can perform that role with all these offensive checks running around in OU.
However, I feel that one thing should be taken into consideration. The number of offensive checks that exist seem a little too unhealthy for Mega Pinsir.
Sash Mamoswine can easily come in for a revenge kill, eating up a Quick Attack or taking an Return with the Sash. Talonflame is another huge issue for Mega Pinsir as Brave Bird seals the deal on Mega Pinsir, no questions asked. Scarfed Tyranitar, while rare, is still a check to be considered as a Stone Edge is a clean OHKO on Mega Pinsir. Scarfed Landorus-T, Scarfed Terrakion and Scarfed Genesect all play the same game with Mega Pinsir. Air Balloon Heatran while it is a bit of a stretch, works nonetheless. I'm not saying Mega Pinsir shouldn't go up - I'm just wondering if all of these various conditions have been considered before throwing him up there. Mega Pinsir is more than capable of sweeping the entire OU metagame ; it's just a matter of how consistently he can perform that role with all these offensive checks running around in OU.
Supporting S Rank nomination
Mega Charizard X is more than capable of sweeping the OU metagame with his two STABs alone, thanks to their near perfect coverage. Mega Charizard X boasts versatility making him difficult to counter head-on. Tank MegaZard X neuters threats such as Tyranitar and Azumarill with Will O Wisp while Swords Dance can become an extremely threatening wall-breaker. (And of course there's Dragon Dance). Mega Charizard X has very few glaring flaws that prevent him performing his job consistently.
Deserves B rank not B-
B- Rank is too low. Lucario is a lethal sweeper late-game and very few things can stand up to a +2 Extreme Speed after taking prior damage. His offensive prowess alone should be enough to merit B Rank. I mean, honestly, there's no way Infernape is outperforming Lucario lol.
still, taunt lets it completely anihalite 3 very common leads, smeargle, mamoswine and galvantula. i've used this set a bit and it works for me. EDIT: also your defending deyoxys-d, which is a pokemon that is "A LEAD" and taunt destroys that thing. proof that you can't make up your mind as to wheter "leads are dead".
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I'd have to agree on Zard X getting bumped up to S. Maybe I'm biased, but to me Zard X got the better end of the stick here in that it actually got a boosting move that matters, whereas Zard Y got Drought, which while isn't bad by any means, the fact that it's literally Zard Y's only way to increase it's power outside of stuff like Ancientpower, while X Zard got that oh so beautiful Fire/Dragon Combo, it hit's so many Pokemon hard on it's own allowing XZard to be able to run Roost, the only two Pokemon that screw with Zard X's STAB Combo are Azumarill and Heatran, both of which Zard X has a answer to in it's movepool being ThunderPunch and EQ respectively. I've seen People run more bulky sets which is plausible given Zard X's 111 Defense and access to WoW, heck I saw a Belly Drum set recently, though I can't say how efficient Mega BellyZard would be. It's also got recovery in Roost which allows bulkier sets to do their job well and an immunity to Burn helps him in where other Dragons have failed. It's also perfectly plausible to go mixed with Zard X given those 130/130 Offensive Stats, so I agree on Zard X getting bumped up.
There's also Mega Pinsir, but I haven't used it or faced it enough to give a solid answer on whether it's S Worthy or not, but from what I've heard it's a real monster, with a base 78 Quick Attack essentially thanks to Aerialate, alongside his 150 Attack and above average 105 Speed definitely seems threatening, so I'd have no objections if Pinsir was "promoted" so to speak, as well, but the Bug/Flying Type is gonna make Mega Pinsir's life harder, as even with Aerialate Bug/Flying is still a pretty horrid defensive type.
There's also Mega Pinsir, but I haven't used it or faced it enough to give a solid answer on whether it's S Worthy or not, but from what I've heard it's a real monster, with a base 78 Quick Attack essentially thanks to Aerialate, alongside his 150 Attack and above average 105 Speed definitely seems threatening, so I'd have no objections if Pinsir was "promoted" so to speak, as well, but the Bug/Flying Type is gonna make Mega Pinsir's life harder, as even with Aerialate Bug/Flying is still a pretty horrid defensive type.
I think the fact that Mega Alakazam loses magic guard alone has put in so much variations into its ranking, so they are very unlikely to stay in the same rank, even it end up being the same, it is likely due to distinct reasons
Supporting S Rank nomination
A lot has been said already for Mega Pinsir and to be honest, I don't think one can argue otherwise. Mega Pinsir's golden ticket into S Rank has to be the combination of Aerialate and Quick Attack. In a metagame where priority thrives, Mega Pinsir fits right in.
However, I feel that one thing should be taken into consideration. The number of offensive checks that exist seem a little too unhealthy for Mega Pinsir.
Sash Mamoswine can easily come in for a revenge kill, eating up a Quick Attack or taking an Return with the Sash. Talonflame is another huge issue for Mega Pinsir as Brave Bird seals the deal on Mega Pinsir, no questions asked. Scarfed Tyranitar, while rare, is still a check to be considered as a Stone Edge is a clean OHKO on Mega Pinsir. Scarfed Landorus-T, Scarfed Terrakion and Scarfed Genesect all play the same game with Mega Pinsir. Air Balloon Heatran while it is a bit of a stretch, works nonetheless. I'm not saying Mega Pinsir shouldn't go up - I'm just wondering if all of these various conditions have been considered before throwing him up there. Mega Pinsir is more than capable of sweeping the entire OU metagame ; it's just a matter of how consistently he can perform that role with all these offensive checks running around in OU.
Supporting S Rank nomination
Mega Charizard X is more than capable of sweeping the OU metagame with his two STABs alone, thanks to their near perfect coverage. Mega Charizard X boasts versatility making him difficult to counter head-on. Tank MegaZard X neuters threats such as Tyranitar and Azumarill with Will O Wisp while Swords Dance can become an extremely threatening wall-breaker. (And of course there's Dragon Dance). Mega Charizard X has very few glaring flaws that prevent him performing his job consistently.
For Mega-Pinsir, revenge kill is an over-worry, it can just switch in untouched with pivot and spinner support like other poke, hitting opponent switch in with some 40% health at least, and switch out like nothing have happened. Like other sweepers, it will only pull off the set up in the late game, and in that case the only thing having a chance to stop it is Talonflame or perhaps ES Mega Lucario if it is low enough. 105 speed is enough to outrun most priority users and kill them with its own quick attack.
In fact, as the meta progresses, with Genesect and Rotom-W everywhere, and SR effectiveness is still having its free fall game, MPinsir is an increasing force to be reckoned. The only reason it looks so underwhelming is only because its bug type looks really ugly. But when you think of it, when the other STAB is arguably the top mono offensive typing(along with Fairies and Ghost I think) with a free 1.3* boost, your "secondary" typing is not going to hold you back too much as long as it was not ice perhaps.
I however find zard X a bit questionable, mainly because of the underwhelming BP of the moves viable. Outrage and Flare Blitz both have very significant drawback so it may not be a good choice to consider. The potential is there, but I think it may take more time to pend out. By now, it is perhaps better for it to stay with Kyu-B for a while.
Drought is nowhere as powerful as it was in the last generation. While fly-type is an awful special typing on anyone not named Togekiss, and also to a significant extend a defensive liability when your another typing is fire. Zard Y was never superior against Zard X from my point of view.
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Dragonite needs to move up to A+.
It's easily one of the best setup sweepers, and with Multiscale, it's almost guaranteed one turn of setup. Furthermore, it is easily the best user of Weakness Policy. It can either lure a Super Effective hit to activate the Weakness Policy, or it could make the opponent shy away from hitting it super effectively to avoid the boost.
Of course, Dragonite isn't limited to just that set. It can also pull off a bulky set with Roost and Dragon Dance (my personal favorite; it is a nuke), a classic Mixed Attacker, a Choice Band set, the always annoying ParaShuffle set, an Assault Vest Tank, and even a Special Rain Sweeper (not as common with the nerf of rain, but it's still a very viable set).
It's easily one of the best setup sweepers, and with Multiscale, it's almost guaranteed one turn of setup. Furthermore, it is easily the best user of Weakness Policy. It can either lure a Super Effective hit to activate the Weakness Policy, or it could make the opponent shy away from hitting it super effectively to avoid the boost.
Of course, Dragonite isn't limited to just that set. It can also pull off a bulky set with Roost and Dragon Dance (my personal favorite; it is a nuke), a classic Mixed Attacker, a Choice Band set, the always annoying ParaShuffle set, an Assault Vest Tank, and even a Special Rain Sweeper (not as common with the nerf of rain, but it's still a very viable set).
- Status