Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Triskili]

Rotom-H for B+ - Rotom-H is one highly unique pokemon that has many things going for it that put it in competition with Rotom-W that can make it a viable alternative. Defensively, Rotom-H actually beats Rotom-W for number of resistances, trading a weakness to Grass for a weakness to Water and Rock while resisting Bug, Fairy, Electric and Grass on top of it. Rotom-H resists every one of Genesect's common attacks by itself which is impressive and threatens with Overheat. Also unlike Wash, Heat's Fire typing means it has an immunity to Burn on top of Paralysis. Combined with Ferrothorn that's an immunity to all the common status types if not counting Hypnosis. Fire/Electric STABs are amazing for coverage with good power. It's downsides are that because of Rotom-W itself and Stealth Rock it doesn't get as many switch in opportunities as it could. Still, choice sets are particularly dangerous with Volt Turn, Overheat and Trick at the least, either causing major damage or gimping something particularly hard. For its unique niche and only requiring nominal team support at best I think B+ is a very fair grade.

Piggyback'ing on this since this was mentioned before: Another setback on Rotom-H is the 4x weakness to ground. Despite the immunity due to levitate, there are pokemon that can go around that, despite these being either sort of common or really rare. I can probably think of two different ways on the top of my head: Abilities like Mold Breaker is one (Excadrill and the not so common Haxorus) and the other example is using the move Gravity (Landorus-T). Though, it doesn't mean that all the teams will have these pokemon in the team but these are cases where I kind of feel that Rotom-H might be put down at B- at worse but having it around that range is pretty fitting for Rotom.

B Rank: .... Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers.

Doesn't mean that Rotom can't defend itself against sweepers. The dual status absorb plus being able to use both T-Wave and Willo seems to be a good set against a big chunk of sweepers. With VoltTurn support, I think Rotom seems to fit a similar niche as Wash but a bit differently than Wash (and maybe worse(?). Not sure since I haven't used Heat that much aside from testing him a few times in Showdown.). ._."

 

[Judgement Blade]

No one is talking about choice band so these calcs are irrelevant and i already explained what diggersby has over pinsir. Also lol what even prevents you from putting them both on the same team anyway, its not like salamence who shares weakness with other dragons, diggersby and pinsir have completely different types that actually complement each other very well so i dont see how is the pinsir argument so important anyway.

Oh, we're talking about the SD set then? The one that gets screwed over by anything that can take a +2 Quick Attack, outspeed a base 78, and has a Fighting, Grass, Water, Ice or a neutral move with remotely reasonable power behind it? I'm really glad those aren't common. Hey, at least you get to pick what you lose to with your EV investment!
And the Pinsir argument is because SD Diggersby and SD Pinsir do the exact same thing, except Pinsir is better. I suppose they have different weaknesses/resists, but I'd rather have something with not 78 speed doing my set up sweeping, unless it has a priority move not called Normal Quick Attack.

 

[DaiGuren]

Wrongo.

When I use Galvantula, I don't equip Sticky Web on him. In fact, I lead with him anyway to make the enemy THINK I have Sticky Web on him. As he/she switches out to Espeon or Mega Evolves Absol, they'll take massive damage from Bug Buzz, and proceed to forfeit the match for being grossly outplayed.

Also, a highly accurate Thunder without the need of rain is what makes it stand out from other electric type Pokemon. Thanks to Focus Sash, I have taken out plenty Talonflames thinking they can be cheeky with me with their Flare Blitzes and Brave Birds.

Not to mention Energy Ball and Giga Drain for Quagsire and Gastrodon.

Uhh sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but anecdotes mean squat in this thread. Unless you're playing in the top ladder rankings/tourneys.

Also, anybody who's moderately able to think properly will not switch-in Espeon/Mega Absol into Galvantula lol

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Oh, we're talking about the SD set then? The one that gets screwed over by anything that can take a +2 Quick Attack, outspeed a base 78, and has a Fighting, Grass, Water, Ice or a neutral move with remotely reasonable power behind it? I'm really glad those aren't common. Hey, at least you get to pick what you lose to with your EV investment!
And the Pinsir argument is because SD Diggersby and SD Pinsir do the exact same thing, except Pinsir is better. I suppose they have different weaknesses/resists, but I'd rather have something with not 78 speed doing my set up sweeping, unless it has a priority move not called Normal Quick Attack.

Wth argument is this, diggersby is being suggested for B rank not S. Who cares if it has checks, its a strong sweeper that can punch holes in teams easily and thats its niche. Why you keep bringing pinsir up when you put both on the same team with no typing overlap (in fact they both have good synergy together).

 

[Vengeance417]

Uhh sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but anecdotes mean squat in this thread. Unless you're playing in the top ladder rankings/tourneys.

Also, anybody who's moderately able to think properly will not switch-in Espeon/Mega Absol into Galvantula lol

I'd hardly call it an anecdote when it's happened more times than I can count when versing teams with either of these two. Galvantula's primary role is supposedly to deploy Sticky Web, but I don't waste my time with it anymore, now that Defog and Bisharp are on the rise.

 

[Numera]

Wth argument is this, diggersby is being suggested for B rank not S. Who cares if it has checks, its a strong sweeper that can punch holes in teams easily and thats its niche. Why you keep bringing pinsir up when you put both on the same team with no typing overlap (in fact they both have good synergy together).

I know why pinsir is coming up. Seeing how it almost COMPLETELY outclasses Diggesrsby, other than maybe SR, This would make Diggersby C rank as it is completely eclipesed. (Oh and the band ste isnt as good as band azumarill if you ask me)

there are many reasons why diggersby is outclassed. First of all, i do think Mega pinsir can scare more out, giving it more setup chances. Also, Pinsir's ability Moxie can actully render SD pointless as +1 before you mega evolve can still do alot of sweeping. Another thing is Aerialate. It makes Pinsir have more powerfull priority than Diggersby. Pinsir also isnt completely walled my Skarmory, its STAB Aerialate attacks are around the same power, ect. I really think all of Diggersby's sets are outclassed by something else

 

[PKMN Mister]

First time posting, and I need to throw Weezing into consideration for B Rank. Hear me out. This is the set I've been running and is why I feel he belongs in the tier.

Weezing @ Binding Band / Black Sludge

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature

- Infestation

- Will-O-Wisp

- Toxic Spikes

- Pain Split

This set aims to trap and keep a Pokemon, most notably clerics and physical attackers, while setting up Toxic Spikes. Then you leave, or finish off the kill and keep healthy with Pain Split. With a Binding Band Infestation trap damage hits 16-17%. Combine that with with residual burn damage or poison/bad poison damage and you can see how crippling this combination can be. Trapping a Chansey/Blissey is golden with Pain Split healing a monstrous amount, and the wasted turns with Aromatherapy and Softboiled would be used to set up your spikes. Weezing's ground immunity thanks to Levitate and his natural Toxic immunity round out his versatility, and its grass/fight/poison/bug/fairy resistances along with its great physical bulk cannot go unnoticed. He is a natural counter to M-Venusaur as well with Earthquake immunity and resistance to grass/poison, and although his special defenses are low, he can recover HP with Pain Split and continue to set up/damage despite his nonviable attacking stats. Weezing also doesn't care about your steel type poison immunity and will burn and infest with unabashed persistence. He also frowns upon wish passers and forces them to stick around for tea and crumpets. And bugs.

Notably, his Psychic weakness is not very surprising and there aren't many Pokemon with Psychic coverage moves (Extrasensory Greninja exists? Wouldn't stay in against it either way), and the wrong prediction on opposing switch-ins means that at the very least he'll land a super effective Infestation before he switches out. Magic Bouncers also give him a hard time, although Infestation bypasses that and forces them to stay in and be made quick work of by Dark type teammates. Many will see Weezing and think "taunt bait" but Infestation is not impacted by this and he can switch out or KO the taunter naturally (for what it's worth, Weavile is hit super effectively by infestation!). At the end of 4-5 turns, should the opposing Pokemon survive, they will jump at the opportunity to switch out or risk being KO'd by another round of Infestation. This is where you can choose to recover HP on fresh meat with Pain Split, burn rapid spinning mold breaker Excadrill on switch in, lay another layer of spikes, or infest the next switch in. These are amazing tools in the right hands.

What you're left with is a Pokemon that can cripple stalling clerics and many physical attackers while dealing on average 25% damage per turn, who can set up hazards, heal, and trap Pokemon - even Pokemon that take pride in HP and status recovery. He is by no means a "powerhouse" but one of the most versatile status spreaders. Couple all of that with access to Destiny Bond, Clear Smog, Sub/status, Stockpile, Taunt, Protect and you're looking at some serious modularity to fit your needs, although the above set covers the most ground. A fantastic support Pokemon. Team Rocket would've caught Pikachu in the first episode if they ran this set.

And finally:

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

continued:

Why Weezing works: Weezing Versus:

S Rank:

- burns and infestation (damage) go through King's Shield, though mixed sets will hurt.

- grass/poison resist, ground immune, infestation trapping makes M-Venusaur upset. Pain Split on Synthesis turn to heal, split HP and then burn/infest damage kicks in.

A Rank:
A+

- Might switch into Weezing under assumption a Toxic is coming. Infestation instead, teammate 1HKOs with ground.

- Can't be burned but will be kept in by Infestation. Some run EQ, but it's a non issue. Can choose a Destiny Bond set. Mega Eliminated.

Garchomp / Garchomp (Mega) - EQ immune again. Burn it, you have the defense to handle/cripple and switch out or heal initial damage with pain split.

Talonflame - Apart from U-turn sets, should infest this bastage and leave.

Pinsir (Mega) - Burn it with fire if it plans to set up on switch in. Infest, leave.


You get the idea. Gliscor can't Toxic or land EQ, and allows you to set up toxic spikes. Walls like Skarmory or Mandibuzz will resort to roost/whirlwind which gives you healing of your own if necessary, while the status/infestation eats at their HP at the end of the turn. Infest some slow bulky mons and leave (like Goodra, Togekiss), and have a sweeper handle the rest. Potential everywhere.

Awesome team pairings for Weezing: Dark Types/Dark coverage, Special Walls, trick room possibly.

Hydreigon is Psychic immune and resists priority ghost attacks, can wreck Heatran with Earth Power while resisting fire, dragon pulse will tear apart dragons, base 98 speed is fantastic.
Vaporeon can extend a stalling set to wait out residual damage or pick off remaining HP.
Escavelier can run Knock Off/Drill Run/Mega Horn/Iron Head and 1HKO (easily after burn/infest damage) trapped psychics, fairies, steel/fire/electric.

Just to name a few.

Input? Discuss?

 

[Ajwf]

I've used Weezing this generation and, while it certainly isn't bad, it was a pokemon I ended up replacing. The thought process behind it was more or less "Cool, an Azumarill counter!" but then waterfall hits and hurts. It is, in my experience, completely and utterly outclassed by skarmory. The fighting resist was cool, but it could do nothing to conkledurr. Couldn't do any damage even with spectacular coverage moves. It was limited to trying to come in and hit something with neutral/SE sludge bomb and burn/painsplit everything else. Heatran was dealing 2hkos with lava plume. Anything special was destroying it, and it couldn't even deter set up sweepers with willowisp.

Yeah, it has some potential, but it is so greatly outclassed by skarmory in every way but willowisp that C ranking would probably be a blessing for it. I think C- is the most accurate description. It lost to Aegi, lost to heatran, lost to both Zards, lost to excadrill, could semi-deter pinsir but not switch into it, and did nothing to stop SD Talonflame. Infestation also ends the turn weezing switches out.

All in all, if you had a good bit of dedicated support, it could do well, but too much to cover that skarm just does naturally.

 

[Oranos]

Well since I think you're sincere in wanting to discuss weezing and aren't trolling;

Infestation ends the turn he switches out, it's impossible for him to trap and hold someone for teammates. He just gets lit up by every sweeper in the meta thanks to his abysmal health. He is outclassed as a will-o-wisp user by tons of pokemon, he is outclassed as a destiny bond user by tons of pokemon (he will often be dead before he can get it off, thanks to his abysmal speed). He might have some small niche as a bond trapper, if he lives long enough to set up both moves, but I honestly can't see him being higher than C, more likely D (do we even have a D?)

 

[PKMN Mister]

I've used Weezing this generation and, while it certainly isn't bad, it was a pokemon I ended up replacing. The thought process behind it was more or less "Cool, an Azumarill counter!" but then waterfall hits and hurts. It is, in my experience, completely and utterly outclassed by skarmory. The fighting resist was cool, but it could do nothing to conkledurr. Couldn't do any damage even with spectacular coverage moves. It was limited to trying to come in and hit something with neutral/SE sludge bomb and burn/painsplit everything else. Heatran was dealing 2hkos with lava plume. Anything special was destroying it, and it couldn't even deter set up sweepers with willowisp.

Yeah, it has some potential, but it is so greatly outclassed by skarmory in every way but willowisp that C ranking would probably be a blessing for it. I think C- is the most accurate description. It lost to Aegi, lost to heatran, lost to both Zards, lost to excadrill, could semi-deter pinsir but not switch into it, and did nothing to stop SD Talonflame. Infestation also ends the turn weezing switches out.

All in all, if you had a good bit of dedicated support, it could do well, but too much to cover that skarm just does naturally.

He IS the support. The listed set is support and would not require much setting up. It won't wall special attackers outside of M-Venusaur. He also traps other walls by forcing them to stay in with Infestation. On a worst case scenario basis, it's an "even" wall v wall, with the added benefit of setting up Toxic Spikes and being Spikes immune and anti Toxic. I misjudged the residual damage on the turn Weezing switches out, however even if the opponent is freed from Infestation, the switch in will almost definitely be poisoned/badly poisoned. Good news for Conkeldurr and safe to switch in steel types, not so much for anything else.

He should never, ever use coverage moves, even sun boosted Fire Blasts or SE poison STABS because residual infestation dmg and the tools to trap/setup/heal is too invaluable. When Weezing is gone from the field, what he left behind is any combination of burns, spikes, and general hindrance to any team with wish passing or clerics.

Well since I think you're sincere in wanting to discuss weezing and aren't trolling;

Infestation ends the turn he switches out, it's impossible for him to trap and hold someone for teammates. He just gets lit up by every sweeper in the meta thanks to his abysmal health. He is outclassed as a will-o-wisp user by tons of pokemon, he is outclassed as a destiny bond user by tons of pokemon (he will often be dead before he can get it off, thanks to his abysmal speed). He might have some small niche as a bond trapper, if he lives long enough to set up both moves, but I honestly can't see him being higher than C, more likely D (do we even have a D?)

There are trash sash leads for hazard setting and then there is Weezing. There are priority users who will easily clean up after him.

These are common Pokemon setups that he counters and has zero problem staying against: Taunt users, Clerics, all Walls (those invested defenses do nothing against burn/infest + pain split), Toxic stallers. These are his targets, along with M-Venusaur. It's not one Pokemon versus the entire OU Meta. He is not a sweeper. He doesn't counter special sweepers. Pair him with Mandibuzz for ww or foul play or defog if you couldn't get Toxic Spikes up, or Skarmory to ww setup mons if necessary. Weezing also has access to Clear Smog if you really want to push him into setup sweeper counter (dropping Toxic Spikes for a wisp/infest/split/clear smog set).

I have been taunted 100 times as soon as he hits the field, and at the end of his rounds there are toxic spikes and and a dead taunter, which frees up that threat for your own setup sweepers in addition to what you just set up with Weezing. Getting rid of a cleric and setting up hazards is 100% amazing (are there any other pokemon who can do that?). Forcing walls (non-whirlwind walls) to waste turns healing and giving you free pain splits is great. Forcing Skarmory/Mandibuzz to roost and then whirlwind is fine and a gamble with any pokemon against them. Think of the bigger picture. He is specific threat eliminator. Maybe too specific for your tastes but he gets it done.

 

[Oranos]

He would have a pretty hard time staying in against taunt users since taunt prevents him from using pain split, wisp, or bond :p And the only reason Ajwf and I brought up him getting mauled by sweepers is because you were talking about how he handles S/A class sweepers a few posts ago...

 

[Josh Morales]

Wrongo.

When I use Galvantula, I don't equip Sticky Web on him. In fact, I lead with him anyway to make the enemy THINK I have Sticky Web on him. As he/she switches out to Espeon or Mega Evolves Absol, they'll take massive damage from Bug Buzz, and proceed to forfeit the match for being grossly outplayed.

You can do the same thing with a sticky web set and have the benefits of sticky web, giving your entire team essentially a free Choice Scarf with zero downsides whatsoever far outweighs the usefulness of having both Volt Switch and Energy Ball on Galvantula(momentum and coverage).

 

[PKMN Mister]

He would have a pretty hard time staying in against taunt users since taunt prevents him from using pain split, wisp, or bond :p And the only reason Ajwf and I brought up him getting mauled by sweepers is because you were talking about how he handles S/A class sweepers a few posts ago...

I have yet to be KO'd by taunt leads (they have to use taunt and refresh it when it wears off. 2 wasted turns while you keep hitting infestation), and they die in 4 turns or jump ship and switch out when freed up from Infestation. That's when you pain split or wisp, or hazard (assuming taunt wears off beforehand). I see what you're all saying, but having Weezing handle things that other Pokemon would rather not frees up valuable moves slots. I'll concede him to C tier for now.

 

[Josh Morales]

I'd hardly call it an anecdote when it's happened more times than I can count when versing teams with either of these two. Galvantula's primary role is supposedly to deploy Sticky Web, but I don't waste my time with it anymore, now that Defog and Bisharp are on the rise.

You are a fool to use Galvantula purely offensively. There's a reason it was bad last gen, and that reason still remains, offensively. You should seriously use Raikou, Mega Manectric, or Jolteon if you want a Volt Switching, fast, offensive electric-type.

 

[Emerld Shuckle]

I know why pinsir is coming up. Seeing how it almost COMPLETELY outclasses Diggesrsby, other than maybe SR, This would make Diggersby C rank as it is completely eclipesed. (Oh and the band ste isnt as good as band azumarill if you ask me)

there are many reasons why diggersby is outclassed. First of all, i do think Mega pinsir can scare more out, giving it more setup chances. Also, Pinsir's ability Moxie can actully render SD pointless as +1 before you mega evolve can still do alot of sweeping. Another thing is Aerialate. It makes Pinsir have more powerfull priority than Diggersby. Pinsir also isnt completely walled my Skarmory, its STAB Aerialate attacks are around the same power, ect. I really think all of Diggersby's sets are outclassed by something else

I wouldn't say it's COMPLETELY outclassed by M-Pinsir. For one, it's not x4 weak to stealth rock, meaning it doesn't need Defog/Rapid Spin to function properly (which is partially why I'd argue that M-Pinsir is not S rank). Diggersby also has access to U-turn, meaning it can make a somewhat viable scarfer. On top of that, I've found that Diggersby is actually bulkier than M-Pinsir.

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Diggersby: 312-369 (83.4 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 278-328 (102.2 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I'm not arguing that it's better, or that it's not outclassed overall, but it can do things than M-Pinsir can't, which is why it is B rank. Heck I'll even take B-, I just think that C is way too low for the things Diggersby can do.

Also, to address the whole skarmory issue, I think it's a bit silly to use the fact that it's walled by Skarmory against it. The whole point of Skarmory is that it walls most physical attackers. That's like complaining that Heatran is walled by Blissey (not that Diggesrby is in the same class as Heatran, but the general idea remains).

EDIT:
Did some calcs, and Diggersby is actually stronger than M-Pinsir in the priority department.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 220-259 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 193-228 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So Diggersby is actually better than M-Pinsir at picking off weaker foes with Quick Attack.

EDIT 2:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 246-291 (60.8 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 278-329 (68.8 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Wow, Diggersby even outclasses Pinsir in who has the more powerful Return. In fact, the two areas in which M-Pinsir outclasses Diggersby are the access to Close Combat (which isn't even on every M-Pinsir set) and speed. The speed being why M-Pinsir overall outclasses Diggersby, but I'm surprised at how toe to toe Diggersby can go with the mighty M-Pinsir. I might consider arguing for B+ rank, because Diggersby also outclasses Azumarill in terms of raw power. Of course, Azumarill has better coverage and is much bulkier, but I think Diggersby has a nice niche in having the strongest Priority move in OU that is not Talonflame's Brave-Bird.

 

[Jukain]

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 256-303 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 620-732 (153.4 - 181.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 452-536 (111.8 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 332-392 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

But ofc I don't know what EV spread you are running, but the standard set is wrecked by everything.

This is totally missing the point. You're calcing super effective attacks against Kyurem -- how is that even fair? Also, just saying, living an SE Focus Blast from Megazard Y is awesome. That just speaks volumes for Kyurem's bulk. It takes that much from a neutral Flare Blitz (and thus BB) from Talonflame? Awesome. You're also totally disregarding Substitute, which if you're smart Kyurem will be protected by.

Vaporeon: B- is more fitting, it as lost a lot thnx to rain nerf.

This is not reasoning. You literally said 'it lost a bunch thnx to rain nerf', when its best set last gen was arguably Wish + Protect, too. I brought up a bunch of points. Argue those.

Sylveon: The only reason it's rated below Clefable is because Clefable is more versatile, has Magic Gaurd and Unaware, can be annoying as hell with the Stored Power, and does the job of CM sweep much better, Clefable can run LO Magic Guard and this gen has very decent SpA, Sylveon only has the Specs Echoed Voice Set, and more SpD/SpA, but Clefable has more Defense, AMAZING coverage (Unlike Sylveon), and either 1) doesn't care about opponent's +6 SpD or 2) is immune to residual damage from Poison, Burn, Hazards, and Leech Seed: very common stuff in OU. tl;dr: Sylveon is good in B IMO.\

I stated in my post FOUR possible variants of Sylveon: bulky cleric, bulky CM, Specs, and Scarf. There's also two variants of bulky cleric, physically defensive and specially defensive.

Entie: The reason it's B is because it hits hard with CB, burns, and has ES, OR is really bulky with AV, burns, and has ES. Not to mention Stone Edge coverage. The standard set is Flare Blitz + Sacred fire. Also:

252+ Atk Entei Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 540-636 (181.2 - 213.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Entei Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 584-688 (195.9 - 230.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 302-356 (101.3 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gliscor can't switch in on Entei because if it was burnt by Sacred Fire, it is utterly crippled.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 216-255 (56.5 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Landorus-T is not a safe switch in, again if it switches on Sacred Fire, it is burnt thus not OHKO-ing with EQ, and Entei wins b/c it's faster

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 155-183 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Rotom-W is not a safe switch-in, unless you mean Physically defensive Rotom-W, which is really not that common.

Vaporeon & Slowbro are a safe switch-in though.

tl;dr: Entei is good where it's at.

uh, yeah, because you have perfect prediction every time to Stone Edge. The point is that they take Sacred Fire easily, and Talonflame/Megazard X can set up on a forced switch, proceeding to destroy you.

What if Gliscor has already been poisoned?

Max HP Landorus-T and SDef Rotom-W are jokes, they're not even worth calcing. Calc their physically bulky sets, aka the best ones. Competent players do not use SDef Rotom-W.

Mega Absol: I don't agree, I think it's fine where it is, Knock Off + Play Rough is AMAZING combo, it has enough speed to sacrifice Sucker Punch, It can run special or mixed, Fire Blast is amazing, and so is Ice Beam, Magic Bounce is amazing as ever, no Leech Seed, no Toxic, no Burn no really any of the annoying stuff. I think Mega Absol is really fine where it is.

It can't run both moves on the same set. They are actually illegal. You can't run a pure special set, that'd be silly. Magic Bounce is cool, but I think it places Mega Absol in B-, not B.

 

[Numera]

He IS the support. The listed set is support and would not require much setting up. It won't wall special attackers outside of M-Venusaur. He also traps other walls by forcing them to stay in with Infestation. On a worst case scenario basis, it's an "even" wall v wall, with the added benefit of setting up Toxic Spikes and being Spikes immune and anti Toxic. I misjudged the residual damage on the turn Weezing switches out, however even if the opponent is freed from Infestation, the switch in will almost definitely be poisoned/badly poisoned. Good news for Conkeldurr and safe to switch in steel types, not so much for anything else.

He should never, ever use coverage moves, even sun boosted Fire Blasts or SE poison STABS because residual infestation dmg and the tools to trap/setup/heal is too invaluable. When Weezing is gone from the field, what he left behind is any combination of burns, spikes, and general hindrance to any team with wish passing or clerics.


There are trash sash leads for hazard setting and then there is Weezing. There are priority users who will easily clean up after him.

These are common Pokemon setups that he counters and has zero problem staying against: Taunt users, Clerics, all Walls (those invested defenses do nothing against burn/infest + pain split), Toxic stallers. These are his targets, along with M-Venusaur. It's not one Pokemon versus the entire OU Meta. He is not a sweeper. He doesn't counter special sweepers. Pair him with Mandibuzz for ww or foul play or defog if you couldn't get Toxic Spikes up, or Skarmory to ww setup mons if necessary. Weezing also has access to Clear Smog if you really want to push him into setup sweeper counter (dropping Toxic Spikes for a wisp/infest/split/clear smog set).

I have been taunted 100 times as soon as he hits the field, and at the end of his rounds there are toxic spikes and and a dead taunter, which frees up that threat for your own setup sweepers in addition to what you just set up with Weezing. Getting rid of a cleric and setting up hazards is 100% amazing (are there any other pokemon who can do that?). Forcing walls (non-whirlwind walls) to waste turns healing and giving you free pain splits is great. Forcing Skarmory/Mandibuzz to roost and then whirlwind is fine and a gamble with any pokemon against them. Think of the bigger picture. He is specific threat eliminator. Maybe too specific for your tastes but he gets it done.

He IS the support. The listed set is support and would not require much setting up. It won't wall special attackers outside of M-Venusaur. He also traps other walls by forcing them to stay in with Infestation. On a worst case scenario basis, it's an "even" wall v wall, with the added benefit of setting up Toxic Spikes and being Spikes immune and anti Toxic. I misjudged the residual damage on the turn Weezing switches out, however even if the opponent is freed from Infestation, the switch in will almost definitely be poisoned/badly poisoned. Good news for Conkeldurr and safe to switch in steel types, not so much for anything else.

He should never, ever use coverage moves, even sun boosted Fire Blasts or SE poison STABS because residual infestation dmg and the tools to trap/setup/heal is too invaluable. When Weezing is gone from the field, what he left behind is any combination of burns, spikes, and general hindrance to any team with wish passing or clerics.


There are trash sash leads for hazard setting and then there is Weezing. There are priority users who will easily clean up after him.

These are common Pokemon setups that he counters and has zero problem staying against: Taunt users, Clerics, all Walls (those invested defenses do nothing against burn/infest + pain split), Toxic stallers. These are his targets, along with M-Venusaur. It's not one Pokemon versus the entire OU Meta. He is not a sweeper. He doesn't counter special sweepers. Pair him with Mandibuzz for ww or foul play or defog if you couldn't get Toxic Spikes up, or Skarmory to ww setup mons if necessary. Weezing also has access to Clear Smog if you really want to push him into setup sweeper counter (dropping Toxic Spikes for a wisp/infest/split/clear smog set).

I have been taunted 100 times as soon as he hits the field, and at the end of his rounds there are toxic spikes and and a dead taunter, which frees up that threat for your own setup sweepers in addition to what you just set up with Weezing. Getting rid of a cleric and setting up hazards is 100% amazing (are there any other pokemon who can do that?). Forcing walls (non-whirlwind walls) to waste turns healing and giving you free pain splits is great. Forcing Skarmory/Mandibuzz to roost and then whirlwind is fine and a gamble with any pokemon against them. Think of the bigger picture. He is specific threat eliminator. Maybe too specific for your tastes but he gets it done.

while I apreatiate the enphusiasum to make weezing sound goood, i feel that you are making him sound better than he is. Weezing cannot beat aegi at all for one, Shadow Ball, an icreadly common move on aegi , hurts. Taunt is a huge problem for weezing, since it takes most of its support move away, so no more pain split, dbond, ect. Mold Braker is also a common thing around with mega ddos and Excadril, so ouch. Like you said, he is very spefific, but yknow who walls psyically better? and sets hazards? Skarmory.(oh and btw Toxic Spikes is a bad hazard if you ask me)Yknow who removes Clerics well? Most status aborbers and Deoxys D/S and Mandi with taunt.

the last thing: Sash Hazard leads are not trash, and if they are weezing is awful.
Sash Mamo is my fave; with evendor it really helps weaken large threats to the team, not just set up rocks.

Weezing for C- or D rank. It is eclipsed and its role in OU is extreamly minor.

lol just saw what professional said. He said that rotom W psyical defense was uncommon. Thats is the most common version.

 

[Emerld Shuckle]

He said that rotom W psyical defense was uncommon. Thats is the most common version.

Really? The suggested set on Showdown is specially defensive. I run physically, but I find it weird that the suggested set would not be the most popular set, considering that would be the set most of the players would default to. Unless you're talking about 1850 statistics (or whatever the equivalent of that is in the new rating system).

 

[Ajwf]

That's his BW2 analysis which suggests the Sdef set. In that gen, he was mainly a rain counter/pivot, and had to take rain boosted hydro pumps. This generation, his job is to take on flying physical attackers and pivot in/out of physical attacks commonly found in the metagame (also, resisting mr.Genesect is nice).

 

[Emerld Shuckle]

That's his BW2 analysis which suggests the Sdef set. In that gen, he was mainly a rain counter/pivot, and had to take rain boosted hydro pumps. This generation, his job is to take on flying physical attackers and pivot in/out of physical attacks commonly found in the metagame (also, resisting mr.Genesect is nice).

I wasn't arguing that it was the best set, just the most popular. But I don't know the usage stats though, so I'm just guessing here.

 

[Jukain]

I use Weezing and there'll always be people that disagree with me that it's useful, but PKMN Mister is coming at from the wrong angle. This is the set:

Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower

TSpikes are the shittiest hazard available in the OU tier and shouldn't even be considered.

Basically this set functions as a good physical check to things. Example replay:

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-ou-81632661

The way Weezing works is, you send it in on the threat, and proceed to burn crap. Mega Venu switches in, or Rotom-W? Crippled. It Pain Splits, wearing away at foes, and with WoW overall makes physical threats much easier to handle. Flamethrower is a really good offensive option, too, allowing it to deal with defensive Steel-types pretty well. It also handles EdgeQuake users, such as Landorus-T, and Tyranitar nicely. The real kicker is how well it handles physical Mega Lucario, which it can switch into, burn, Pain Split up, and Flamethrower it into oblivion.

Note I am not even suggesting a rank, but PKMN Mister's post introduces a lot of misconceptions.

Really? The suggested set on Showdown is specially defensive. I run physically, but I find it weird that the suggested set would not be the most popular set, considering that would be the set most of the players would default to. Unless you're talking about 1850 statistics (or whatever the equivalent of that is in the new rating system).

Among competent players. The Showdown statistics are not relevant when SDef isn't even good, and Phys Def is the premier set among good players.

 

[azureleaf17]

Some love for the fire bug? I keep seeing things about Volcarona brought up in passing, but for some reason people keep wanting to bring up old things that already have rankings.

Volcarona for B+

Out of all the things that truly appreciated how much easier it is to keep hazards off the field this generation, Volcarona probably loves it the most — it was (and still is) the only grounded (...?) Pokemon that is 4x weak to Stealth Rock, meaning it suffers the most from having multiple hazards on your side. But being the best Quiver Dancer in the game, along with good bulk (85/65/105), great specially offensive stats (135/100), underrated typing (resisting six types, two of which are common priority) and good STABs with an interesting signature move in Fiery Dance, I still think it's one of the best set-up sweepers in the game. In addition, without rain being the dominant force that it was last generation, it has more opportunities to come in and set up without fearing rain-boosted Hydro Pumps from every other team - in fact, a Volcarona with one Quiver Dance and no investment can live any Water attack except for an item-boosted, maximum investment Hydro Pump from Modest Keldeo and hit back hard with Giga Drain. In fact, Volcarona can come out on top against all of the S-Ranks except Mega Venusaur (and in fact, Volcarona's Hurricane is a clean 2HKO, but 70% accuracy is equivalent to Focus Blast, which we all know is notorious for missing).

The biggest problems in this metagame are Talonflame with priority BB, Mega Pinsir with priority Aerilate Quick Attack, and Fire-types (especially Heatran, which has always been the biggest thorn in Volcarona's side). Unfortunately, these threats are everywhere. Its STABs, while powerful, fail to do much to Fire-types, something that are quite common this generation because of Charizard and its Mega Evolutions. But a QD-boosted Fire Blast or Bug Buzz still does good damage to resists, so don't underestimate its power; Mega Charizard-Y doesn't appreciate having a +1 Fire Blast thrown in its face when boosted by its own drought!

I've run two sets:

Volcarona @ Lum Berry
ability: Flame Body
nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain / HP Ground / Hurricane

This set is disgustingly powerful, but not too suited to my playstyle. The last moveslot is for threats — Giga Drain for Water-Types, HP Ground for Heatran and other Fire-types, and Hurricane for Mega Venusaur if you like to gamble with 70% accuracy.

Volcarona @ Leftovers
ability: Flame Body
nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Fiery Dance
- Roost

I love bulky offense and stall, so this set suits me better, trading immediate power for survivability and longevity.

Any other Volcarona fans out there who can give an opinion?

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Volcarona is the reason i keep puting talonflame/scarf terrakion in almost every team. Its just too scary too handle after a single boost, specially when this thing can setup in several top threats (gene, aegislash, rotom-w). I'd put it in A rank personally. It literally has only one flaw that can be remedied with defog. Other than that its the perfect sweeper, instant recovery, can boost all of its best stats in a single turn, fiery dance is just amazing, great coverage, can beat the top 3 mons easily etc.

 

[Emerld Shuckle]

lots of text

The one problem with Volcarona this gen is Azumaril, Talonflame, and M-Pinsir exist to ruin it's day. Even Physically defensive Volca is destroyed.
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 404-476 (108 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 186-218 (49.7 - 58.2%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 468-552 (125.1 - 147.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 152-180 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 300-354 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And it's still got those issues with Stealth Rock and Spikes. Not only that, but it can't really take advantage of Sun for extra damage anymore (and even if it could, Megazard Y does it better). I guess Flame Body is cool for burning it's potential threats, but that often comes at the cost of the Volcarona, in which case you might as well have used focus sash Shedinja. Still, it's the best at what it does, which is setting up Quiver Dance and destroying everything not named Talonflame in it's path. The issue is better there. I'd say solid B - B-, but B+ is a little bit much.

EDIT:
Reading what you wrote more carefully, it seems like you're saying it has the same checks and counters as I'm saying it, I just think that those warrant a lower rating than you do. Though really it's just a manner of whether it has a shiny + next to it's name, or not a shiny + next to it's name, which I think is totally irrelevant anyway.

Volcarona is the reason i keep puting talonflame/scarf terrakion in almost every team. Its just too scary too handle after a single boost, specially when this thing can setup in several top threats (gene, aegislash, rotom-w). I'd put it in A rank personally. It literally has only one flaw that can be remedied with defog. Other than that its the perfect sweeper, instant recovery, can boost all of its best stats in a single turn, fiery dance is just amazing, great coverage, can beat the top 3 mons easily etc.

I think A rank is a bit much. I wouldn't say it can sweep a large amount of the meta game when it can't do anything to Talonflame, Azumarill, both Megazards, Heatran, Assault Vest Tyranitar (unless it has a lot of boosts), Terrakion, and Blissey.

 

[Judgement Blade]

Wth argument is this, diggersby is being suggested for B rank not S. Who cares if it has checks, its a strong sweeper that can punch holes in teams easily and thats its niche. Why you keep bringing pinsir up when you put both on the same team with no typing overlap (in fact they both have good synergy together).

Because getting outclassed is getting outclassed, regardless of typing or synergy. And suggesting it for B rank means that it has a niche that it isn't outclassed in (strong sweeper that can punch holes easily), which it doesn't. I could name off quite a few things that outclass him outright in the SD sweeper department that aren't named Pinsir and aren't weak to SR. Some examples are Lucario, Mega Mawile, Bisharp and Haxorus, plus I would be willing to argue Garchomp, SD Scizor and Excadrill. It's basically the same exact thing as the entire Salamence crap way back. When you're outclassed, you're outclassed, and even if you have some slight thing that MIGHT come into play, what does it matter when everything else is superior?