Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Ropeburn]

I'm not sure if many people will agree with me here, but imo Mega Pinsir should be A+.

I see where you're coming from, but Mega Pinsir is really just ridiculously powerful. It has no counters once you set up a SD bar weird stuff like Clefable.

4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 174-206 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 186-218 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


As you can see, it's really not that hard to wear down the only pokemon that check it into 2hko range. That one hyper offensive team that uses Mega Pinsir and TalonFlame/Staraptor is just absolutely disgustingly powerful.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Giometry eaglehawk --- Concerning Goodra's and Mega-Aero's ranking

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First giometry, consider that Adamant Mega Aerodactyl is only slightly stronger than Life Orb Aerodactyl when using its primary STAB: Stone Edge. Also consider the "only-average" increase in power when using supereffective moves with the Hone Claws boost against you counters. I chose Chansey and Skarmory for the ease of demonstrating calcs:

252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 246-289 (34.9 - 41%)
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 242-286 (34.3 - 40.6%)

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 120-142 (35.9 - 42.5%)
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 105-125 (31.4 - 37.4%)

That slight increase in power on your Aerodactyl is totally not worth using your Mega-slot. The only other thing you gain is a guaranteed speed win vs opposing base 130's, which is a really small advantage because they are nearly absent from the metagame. If you used Jolly, you are now weaker and get good speed. But is that role better served with Deoxys-S? It absolutely is because it is stronger, has better coverage to revenge kill a wider array of Pokemon, doesn't have an SR weakness, and it doesn't take your mega-slot that could be used for something really fearsome like Mega-Lucario. Echoing eaglehawk's sentiments about Mega-Aerodactyl being wasted potential.

Now on Goodra. Not having reliable recovery's has a significant impact on its raw bulk with Assault Vest and its lack of speed really hurts it sometimes vs offensive teams. Let's say Goodra is put into a typical situation: checking Rotom-W with SR in play. If Rotom-W burns you, you are now taking 25% damage every time you come in to check a threat (same with Latias) but with no opportunity to get that health back. I can't deny Goodra can check a lot of special threats better than Latias, but it can not do it throughout a long match, leaving very little room for error in wasting Goodra's health. Latias let's you make a few mistakes here and there because of its recovery, so it is a safer option going into most battles.

Now if Rotom-W Volt Switches, it is an entirely different situation with Goodra and Latias. Rotom-W's Volt Switch holds a lot more momentum against Goodra. Since the majority of offensive threats outspeed Goodra, you will find that Goodra will be forced out giving an opponent a free turn. With Latias' high speed, the opponent has to be a lot more careful of what to send out because not many offensive threats can stomach Life Orb Draco Meteor's or one of its coverage moves. Overall, Latias has an expanded list of threats it can check because it can immediately force out pokemon with high-powered Draco Meteors (ex. Charizard X, Terrakion, Garchomp, physical Landorus, etc). Goodra can not do the same.

Although I don't really mind if it is sent to B-. I'm not going to split hairs between +1 or -1 rankings.

TooMuchSugar Rafael J. Feliciano--- Concerning Infernape's ranking

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Infernape doesn't have the raw power compared to a lot of the other OU wallbreakers / mixed attackers out there. Without that raw power, it struggles to get through pokemon that are common on defensive teams, the types of teams that Infernape is thrown on to your team to take down. These include Mega-Venasaur, Clefable, Slowbro, and Latias. It faces competition in the form of Keldeo in a "mixed" fighting type that can take down Aegislash. In exchange for the ability to get around certain Grass types, Keldeo gets a much better neutral / cleaning STAB in water. I've tried Infernape out seeing as how rain went away, and I found while it has great coverage, it can get robbed of 2HKO's if it doesn't predict correctly. A poke with more raw power behind it (e.g. keldeo) can still find itself getting 2HKO's even when a Pokemon switches in on a resisted hit.

Honestly either B- or C+.

SmashBrosBrawl --- Concerning Dragonite's ranking

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I don't disagree with you about Extreme Speed's awesomeness on Dragonite. I put that as Dragonite's redeeming quality in my post. But since it runs Extremespeed, Dragonite's coverage is much more limited vs defensive threats, moreso than any other Pokemon in A-rank. Outrage is still good too, Fairy-types aren't so prominently used in the tier that it will put Dragonite's sweep to a deadend against the vast majority of teams. The key is that it locks you in and then confuses you. Offensive steel-type != just Scizor, but three of the S-ranked offensive threats in the metagame. Most offensive teams can find a little wiggle room to break up your sweep or to counter sweep themselves.

It might now make much sense, but to me at least, Dragonite is one of the sweepers that gives you the most "breathing room" before you face it. It isn't particularly fast, it doesn't run Life Orb / plates to boost its immediate power, nor does it retain the best momentum in its sweep by locking itself into Outrage. That gives you time to respond and time to regain some ground after the damage has been done. For this reason, I liked using Choice Band a lot more than DD than last gen and this gen. No setup for power = less time for opponent to respond. Also forcing the keep my multiscale or break it then die was a tough trade to put the opponent in too. Anyway, given that that offensive teams now have a wider selection of offensive steel-types and can even use fairy-types, I think it isn't as an immediatly threatening than other Pokemon in a A-Rank. Honestly, it is the poke I am least concerned about being moved.

edit: also i find lando-t's popularity extremely annoying to it

edit: alexwolf alright you got me on the power but I would still say it is a pretty bad use of a mega slot for offensive teams. b-

Can we please stop being all nice to Infernape and give it the C or lower rank it deserves :/. Everything it does is either outclassed or it doesn't do well enough- Speed? Take some mega pinsir quick attacks and some talonflame brave birds why don't you? Power- Meet mega saur pls (252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 156-187 (42.8 - 51.3%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO) and ask the mega chars for power pls :/. And lets not even act like it has usable bulk. It's only niche is offensive SR which garchomp is a lot better at doing, the only thing infernape can do is abuse it's speed for SR sets now :/

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

Not really seeing it here for Pinsir even though I know what you mean.

4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 174-206 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Alternatively, you could Will-O-Wisp and then Volt Switch. Now there is a burned Pinsir, you still survive the second Return (iirc even after Stealth Rock), and you still do plenty of damage back to it. Even if you don't survive you can deal with a burned Pinsir.

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 186-218 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That Brave Bird is pretty much a OHKO after Stealth Rock (if you switched in with the regular Pinsir). If it becomes really annoying you can go ahead and Whirlwind the guy immediately. Switching in a second time is difficult because now you have a 4x Stealth Rock weakness and you need to find something you resist again.

Also, there is setting up Swords Dance in the first place, which was my other concern. There were literally matches where I could not get Pinsir on the field because everything could do something significant with all their moves, or I had a better alternative to switch in. I still think that is too much support to be S-Rank.

 

[sidakarya]

I see where you're coming from, but Mega Pinsir is really just ridiculously powerful. It has no counters once you set up a SD bar weird stuff like Clefable.

4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 174-206 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 186-218 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you can see, it's really not that hard to wear down the only pokemon that check it into 2hko range. That one hyper offensive team that uses Mega Pinsir and TalonFlame/Staraptor is just absolutely disgustingly powerful.

I would just burn the Pinsir, if I were to switch Rotom-W into Swords Dance. Then their Pinsir is crippled and can't deal the killing blow.

• +2 252 Atk Aerilate burned Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 84-100 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- 76.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

From my experience, whenever I build a team, I just end up having multiple Pinsir-checks without thinking about it. It's terrifying, when set up, and it takes a really special kind of wall to beat it, but Rotom-W is already the most used Pokémon, and there are still Skarmory and even Zapdos (can survive +2 Return after Stealth Rock with some defensive investment, and have a good chance of OHKO with Thunderbolt) just for a few more example. It does take some support to wallbreak or remove these threats, which doesn't really fit imo with the S-rank, which by definition requires very little or no support at all. Talonflame is also very popular and almost always beats Pinsir, another thing, that you have to deal with when using it.

There's also that Stealth Rock weakness, which is possibly its single greatest weakness - the Megazards can make up for this with their insane offensive coverage, but Pinsir very often just has Ground and Flying, meaning that it can be stopped by more common things.

 

[Ropeburn]

Alternatively, you could Will-O-Wisp and then Volt Switch. Now there is a burned Pinsir, you still survive the second Return (iirc even after Stealth Rock), and you still do plenty of damage back to it. Even if you don't survive you can deal with a burned Pinsir..

I would just burn the Pinsir, if I were to switch Rotom-W into Swords Dance. Then their Pinsir is crippled and can't deal the killing blow.

What I was going for in those calcs was to show that Pinsir 2HKOs 2 of his more common counters. I didn't even do calcs for Thrash, which does even more damage than that. It's not unstoppable, but that raw power is undeniably powerful.

 

[Seiterman]

I see where you're coming from, but Mega Pinsir is really just ridiculously powerful. It has no counters once you set up a SD bar weird stuff like Clefable.

4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 174-206 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 186-218 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


As you can see, it's really not that hard to wear down the only pokemon that check it into 2hko range. That one hyper offensive team that uses Mega Pinsir and TalonFlame/Staraptor is just absolutely disgustingly powerful.

What I was going for in those calcs was to show that Pinsir 2HKOs 2 of his more common counters. I didn't even do calcs for Thrash, which does even more damage than that. It's not unstoppable, but that raw power is undeniably powerful.

It's power after a SD doesn't really change the original point that it requires more support to get to that point than it should as an S-Rank Pokemon. Hell, no one is arguing that M-Pinsir isn't a powerhouse. It totally is. Being powerful isn't the be-all end-all of viability though. If it were we'd see crap like Rampardos way up there.

M-Pinsir just isn't self-sufficient enough to warrant S-Rank. It needs a lot of help getting in in the first place, while also usually requiring a hazard remover and something to weaken walls. I agree with Swamp Rocket that A+ sounds more fitting for M-Pinsir.

Kinda Greninja'd, but oh well.

 

[Ruffles]

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 280-331 (92.1 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 281-331 (92.4 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 234-276 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Every Pinsir should at least have 1 one of these. If the former 2 were available, then Mega Pinsir will kill Rotom-W after stealth rock damage.

I, myself, don't run what most people run: Return + Quick Attack. I run Quick Attack + 2 coverage (X-Scissor + EQ) and it works great honestly.

When to set up swords dance? Mega Pinsir forces a LOT of switches. Mega Venusaur is getting more and more popular, Mega Pinsir is one of those pokemons who absolutely wreck it. And I'd appreciate it.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Rotom-W should be physical defensive.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 280-331 (92.1 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 281-331 (92.4 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 234-276 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Every Pinsir should at least have 1 one of these. If the former 2 were available, then Mega Pinsir will kill Rotom-W after stealth rock damage.

I, myself, don't run what most people run: Return + Quick Attack. I run Quick Attack + 2 coverage (X-Scissor + EQ) and it works great honestly.

When to set up swords dance? Mega Pinsir forces a LOT of switches. Mega Venusaur is getting more and more popular, Mega Pinsir is one of those pokemons who absolutely wreck it. And I'd appreciate it.

X-Scissor is terrible, it offers no coverage whatsoever. Return is just too insanely powerful to pass up thanks to the aerilate boost that allows you to hit stuff hard even without a boost. Those calcs are meaningless since rotom-w should always run a physically defensive spread, otherwise pinsir can just get past it with unboosted returns (lol). That said i agree with you that Pinsir should remain at S-Rank.

 

[Thorhammer]

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 280-331 (92.1 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 281-331 (92.4 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 234-276 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Every Pinsir should at least have 1 one of these. If the former 2 were available, then Mega Pinsir will kill Rotom-W after stealth rock damage.

I, myself, don't run what most people run: Return + Quick Attack. I run Quick Attack + 2 coverage (X-Scissor + EQ) and it works great honestly.

When to set up swords dance? Mega Pinsir forces a LOT of switches. Mega Venusaur is getting more and more popular, Mega Pinsir is one of those pokemons who absolutely wreck it. And I'd appreciate it.

Mega Pinsir IS Return. It hits twice as hard as EQ or Stone Edge, making it match the damage at one level lower of type effectiveness (or Swords Dance use, for that matter). Close Combat can be an option (on some Pinsir, nowhere near "every"), but X-Scissor and Stone Edge are most certainly not.

 

[Srn]

Since we're talking about mega pinsir, I'd like to mention Feint.
I think that mega pinsir is the only viable user of feint in singles. But what is Feint anyway?
Well, its a 30 base power move with 100 accuracy that bypasses protect, detect, quick guard, and wide guard.

"But its weaker than quick attack, why would I ever use it >_> you can just play around protect and SD duuuuhhh >_>"

Well here's the wonderful thing about Feint. It's +2 in the priority bracket, not +1.
This means that you don't have to worry about ANY other priority! AT ALL! The only exception to this is dragonite/zygarde after a dragon dance with extremespeed, but I don't think mega pinsir should be your answer to that. You'd lose with quick attack anyway, so that's pretty irrelevant.

Anyway, there are endless benefits to Feint in exchange for the 10 base power drop.
First off, yeah, you do ignore the situational protect. However, if that sylveon is about to heal right back up to 65%, you can just click Feint in case he hyper voices predicting your SD as a safe option out. Not really a legit argument, but just a scenario

Second, you bypass extremespeed. This has obvious benefits: you can just pick off lucario (before mega evolution (but that's about to be irrelevant, which is why I ignored him in the previous espeed list)) weakened dragonite, weakened zygarde, and weakened genesect (probably not gonna be relevant, as long as the voters aren't smoking ku$h when they cast the vote). Most notably, you can bypass banded espeed from genesect, which is always nice, as QA couldn't do that.

Third, for a reason a little less situational, you outpace all other +1 priority. If that mega absol is about to sucker punch your ass, no problem, you can just Feint and be totally safe! Same goes for thundurus, all though it needs to be heavily weakened to bypass thunder wave, you CAN do it. But, most notably, this:

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 97-115 (32.5 - 38.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 193-228 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

After an SD, or just some prior damage, you don't even have to worry about Talonflame! That's HUGE! Bypassing talonflame no matter what and getting rid of him after an SD boost and rocks is great!

While these arguments may seem lackluster to some, keep in mind that with quick attack, you lose to everything in every scenario where you might've had a chance with Feint. With Quick Attack you lose to talonflame, get para'd by thundurus, get picked off by banded genesect espeed, get sucker punched by mega absol, get owned by any other faster priority user out there!
Is losing to all those guys worth just 10 more bp? Are you getting any significant OHKOs or 2HKOs with QA that you're not getting with Feint?

 

[Thorhammer]

10 BP is relative; it's 25% of the power of a crucial attack without power to spare. If Feint justifies a change from Jolly to Adamant all by itself, it'd only be a 17.5% power drop, but that strikes me as difficult to justify on Feint alone.

 

[Tornadus-T :D]

I would like to nominate Shaymin for B rank (Yes I know that's above celebi >.>)
It's LO+3 attacks and rest set is actually pretty good if the person using it is competent and it really is one of the best attacking grass types in the tier and doesn't have the ghost and dark weakness's that Celebi has. I may not be the best at OU but I think Shaymin deserves a B rank.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I'd like to make a case for Aggron being atleast B or so. Between Thunder-Wave, Stealth Rock, and Dragon Tail, I feel like Aggron is an absolute monster to deal with.

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 144-169 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Not just Pinsir, but T-Wave/Earthquake/Stone Edge/Heavy Slam deals with a lot of stuff:

-It can survive a +1 X-zard's Flare Blitz, paralyze it, and then do heavy damage with Earthquake
-Aegislash is faster, it will attack first (252/0 Mega Aggron can survive a Shadowball) and Aggron can OHKO with Earthquake
-CB Talonflame doesn't even 2HKO, is OHKOed by Stone Edge
-CB Staraptor does fuck all, Heavy Slam OHKOs after CC's defense drop
-Pinsir is OHKOed by Stone Edge, can't even 2HKO at +2
-Azumarill is 2HKOed by Heavy Slam, can't do anything back unless it's at +6
-Scizor and Mega Scizor do fuck all even with Super Power
-CB Terrakion's Close Combat doesn't OHKO, Earthquake does at -1
-Bisharp can't 2HKO at +2, EQ 2HKOs
-Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar can barely do anything, are 3HKOed by Earthquake
-Heatran's Lava Plume doesn't OHKO, Earthquake does
-Dragonite is 2HKOed if Multiscale is broken, but if it's intact Aggron loses if it activates weakness policy. Can still use Thunder Wave
-Mawile wins if it's at +2 and has Fire Fang, but is otherwise 2HKOed by Earthquake
-Mega Medicham wins but still gets paralyzed and loses most of its health
-Mega Aggron can't do meaningful damage to Mega Gyarados but can still paralyze it
-Normal Aggron can also "win" various unfavorable matchups, like vs. Mega Charizard Y, so long as Sturdy is intact

For being able to check a ton of notable and extremely dangerous threats (including three S ranks and a lot of the attackers in A rank,) Mega Aggron should at the very least be ranked. B rank minimum. It can also do a Rock Polish set, potentially sweeping a team while all priority attacks bounce off it, and can use Roar/D-Tail to "beat" any set-up sweepers it would otherwise lose against.

EDIT: Aggron also gets Metal Burst. I can't be assed to calc how well that would work but it might be cool.

 

[Shroomisaur]

I completely support SMB's nomination of Deo-D for A+ rank. Despite its common weaknesses, it's the ultimate hazard-setter. Unlike Deo-S, it has the bulk to take nearly any hit and still has enough speed to set up on most defensive teams. It can also use a bulkier spread w/ Recover to support the team multiple times in the match. I've had great success using its fast Red Card set on my HO team.

Mega Pinsir should remain at S rank, in my opinion. Yes it's difficult to switch in, but the same can be said for Charizard. The fact is that Pinsir has so much power behind its Aerilate Return that it can easily wear down its checks. Quick Attack allows it to stay useful against HO teams and pick up revenge kills, and with EQ Pinsir can easily break through most defensive teams (I'm looking at you, Venu-tran). Skarmory is always going to be pain, but I don't think the support needed outweighs Pinsir's strengths.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

I would like to nominate Shaymin for B rank (Yes I know that's above celebi >.>)
It's LO+3 attacks and rest set is actually pretty good if the person using it is competent and it really is one of the best attacking grass types in the tier and doesn't have the ghost and dark weakness's that Celebi has. I may not be the best at OU but I think Shaymin deserves a B rank.

Shaymin is not getting an OU analysis, so we're not going to rank it. I don't know how many times I've had to say that. Honestly, please just check this thread before nominating stuff. If it's not there, don't bother.

Since we're talking about mega pinsir, I'd like to mention Feint.
I think that mega pinsir is the only viable user of feint in singles. But what is Feint anyway?
Well, its a 30 base power move with 100 accuracy that bypasses protect, detect, quick guard, and wide guard.

"But its weaker than quick attack, why would I ever use it >_> you can just play around protect and SD duuuuhhh >_>"

Well here's the wonderful thing about Feint. It's +2 in the priority bracket, not +1.
This means that you don't have to worry about ANY other priority! AT ALL! The only exception to this is dragonite/zygarde after a dragon dance with extremespeed, but I don't think mega pinsir should be your answer to that. You'd lose with quick attack anyway, so that's pretty irrelevant.

Anyway, there are endless benefits to Feint in exchange for the 10 base power drop.
First off, yeah, you do ignore the situational protect. However, if that sylveon is about to heal right back up to 65%, you can just click Feint in case he hyper voices predicting your SD as a safe option out. Not really a legit argument, but just a scenario

Second, you bypass extremespeed. This has obvious benefits: you can just pick off lucario (before mega evolution (but that's about to be irrelevant, which is why I ignored him in the previous espeed list)) weakened dragonite, weakened zygarde, and weakened genesect (probably not gonna be relevant, as long as the voters aren't smoking ku$h when they cast the vote). Most notably, you can bypass banded espeed from genesect, which is always nice, as QA couldn't do that.

Third, for a reason a little less situational, you outpace all other +1 priority. If that mega absol is about to sucker punch your ass, no problem, you can just Feint and be totally safe! Same goes for thundurus, all though it needs to be heavily weakened to bypass thunder wave, you CAN do it. But, most notably, this:

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 97-115 (32.5 - 38.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Feint vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 193-228 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

After an SD, or just some prior damage, you don't even have to worry about Talonflame! That's HUGE! Bypassing talonflame no matter what and getting rid of him after an SD boost and rocks is great!

While these arguments may seem lackluster to some, keep in mind that with quick attack, you lose to everything in every scenario where you might've had a chance with Feint. With Quick Attack you lose to talonflame, get para'd by thundurus, get picked off by banded genesect espeed, get sucker punched by mega absol, get owned by any other faster priority user out there!
Is losing to all those guys worth just 10 more bp? Are you getting any significant OHKOs or 2HKOs with QA that you're not getting with Feint?

Feint is very cool on Mega-Pinsir, however, I don't think it's really a big enough difference to justify a change in ranking (especially as it's already as high as it can go).

 

[Timpsu]

Something that has been said previously, but I will bring this up again: What kind of rank should Nidoking receive? I don't feel all that strongly for the Pokemon, but since it does have an OU analysis, and I have used it to some extent to moderate success, I guess it would be only logical to give it a sort of rank too. The only viable set of Nidoking is Sheer Force + LO special attacker, which does hit pretty damn hard. It also has some unique niches: it is the most viable Ground-typed special attacker, and it's unique typing gives it a nice niche over other special attackers. It couldn't care less for Heatran, which is a common special wall, and also does well against Fairies. It also has access to all the relevant coverage moves, so u can decide what it can take on in addition. However, Nido is just slow, and will never manage to get over 300 Speed. Although Nido is no set up fodder, it is pretty easy to revenge kill, and needs serious team support for it to work efficiently. I guess it could go somewhere in the C region, propably C or C-.

 

[Xcreated]

I agree with Mega Aggron for B rank. I've been using him as a lead to wrack up stealth rock DMg and spread paralysis along side a wish blissey and it has been doing wonders. (I'm only about 1600 rank so far so not like I'm fighting crazy pros yet) I also been running it with counter to take out heavy hitters that think it's just set up bait. I even think a B+ or A- rank would be good for it.
I'll add some calcs tomorrow cause the calculator is really hard to use now on the phone.

 

[Prinz]

Also how about Mega Tyranitar in A+? It's one of the biggest threat atm, being able to sweep entire teams just setupping a Dragon Dance, which is p easy thanks to its natural bulk in combination with the boost at the SDef it gets from sandstorm, that makes hard revengekilling as well. It resists to Quick Attack / Sucker Punch (perhaps the most common priority move actually) but can also tank Aqua Jet from Band Azumarill and Bullet Punch from Band Scizor and hit back hard with a boosted Stone Edge. For these reasons, in combination with good coverage moves too (Stone Edge, Eq, Ice Punch etc.) it imo deserved the A+ ranking. It can also run a support set with Stealth Rock but its not so used so whatever lol.

 

[Srn]

Also how about Mega Tyranitar in A+? It's one of the biggest threat atm, being able to sweep entire teams just setupping a Dragon Dance, which is p easy thanks to its natural bulk in combination with the boost at the SDef it gets from sandstorm, that makes hard revengekilling as well. It resists to Quick Attack / Sucker Punch (perhaps the most common priority move actually) but can also tank Aqua Jet from Band Azumarill and Bullet Punch from Band Scizor and hit back hard with a boosted Stone Edge. For these reasons, in combination with good coverage moves too (Stone Edge, Eq, Ice Punch etc.) it imo deserved the A+ ranking. It can also run a support set with Stealth Rock but its not so used so whatever lol.

Definitely sticking my thumbs up to this. Mega tyranitar w/ dragon dance is probably my favorite mega, and for good reasons. After 1 dd, he outspeeds the entire unboosted tier, and thanks to his enormous bulk, he can set up on a ridiculous number of things, even shit like LO starmie! And did I mention his bulk? His bulk, uninvested, shrugs off fucking banded bullet punch from scizor and banded aqua jets from azumarill, he's crazy! A 164 base attack with reliable STAB such as crunch, stone edge for power, and ice punch for catching lando-t, garchomp, and gliscor, this guy isn't a soft hitter either. Additionally, he can use eq to reliably get past aegislash, mawile, and a few others. Probably the best thing I like about mega tyranitar is that it isn't revenged by talonflame. It can shrug off a pathetic brave bird anyday, what is usually the bane of sweepers, which means I could go so far as to set up on a choice locked on and not give 2 shits. Again, mega tyranitar is a monster and definitely deserves A+

Feint is very cool on Mega-Pinsir, however, I don't think it's really a big enough difference to justify a change in ranking (especially as it's already as high as it can go).

I never said it should go up in ranking (especially cuz its already S) If anything, if should go down to A+, it has a number of offensive checks and while it is insanely powerful, common checks that can take a hit exist, like rotom-w, zapdos, and skarmory. But I just wanted to give a shout-out to Feint and see what people thought about it.

 

[Punchshroom]

I can attest to Mega TTar's effectiveness, as its new 71 Speed is much better for DD sweeping than its regular form's 61. It also has great STABs, packs great power and coverage, and has the bulk to both setup and tank some hit while sweeping. The problem with Mega TTar is that it comes with a certain kind of opportunity cost: without Leftovers, Assault Vest, or even any HP investment, Mega TTar isn't nearly as equipped to handle threats its base form would easily stop, especially since the damage it takes can potentially ruin its sweep. That said, it can wreak all kinds of havoc if given the chance to setup, so Mega TTar could see some potnetial in A+, but it faces some parallel with Gyarados and its Mega, in that the Mega is (usually) better for sweeping but limited in sweeping only, essentially making it "just another potential Gyarados set" rather than being a clear cut above its base form.

I'm not entirely sure why Zygarde (who was recently pushed down even further) and Dragonite are worlds apart, especially since they are pretty comparable in a good number of roles. Both have DD and Extreme Speed, both can do bulky boosting, both can even parashuffle, it almost seems like they are long lost brothers. Dragonite may have more power (with a competent Special Attack stat) and a great ability, but Zygarde has additional sweeping STAB, a Stealth Rock resistance, and retains great bulk even when not at full health. Sorry alexwolf , but it almost seems like you bumped it down for no reason at all. Goodra has also received an unexpectedly big drop but I won't go into that one for now.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I can attest to Mega TTar's effectiveness, as its new 71 Speed is much better for DD sweeping than its regular form's 61. It also has great STABs, packs great power and coverage, and has the bulk to both setup and tank some hit while sweeping. The problem with Mega TTar is that it comes with a certain kind of opportunity cost: without Leftovers, Assault Vest, or even any HP investment, Mega TTar isn't nearly as equipped to handle threats its base form would easily stop, especially since the damage it takes can potentially ruin its sweep. That said, it can wreak all kinds of havoc if given the chance to setup, so Mega TTar could see some potnetial in A+, but it faces some parallel with Gyarados and its Mega, in that the Mega is (usually) better for sweeping but limited in sweeping only, essentially making it "just another potential Gyarados set" rather than being a clear cut above its base form.

I'm not entirely sure why Zygarde (who was recently pushed down even further) and Dragonite are worlds apart, especially since they are pretty comparable in a good number of roles. Both have DD and Extreme Speed, both can do bulky boosting, both can even parashuffle, it almost seems like they are long lost brothers. Dragonite may have more power (with a competent Special Attack stat) and a great ability, but Zygarde has additional sweeping STAB, a Stealth Rock resistance, and retains great bulk even when not at full health. Sorry alexwolf , but it almost seems like you bumped it down for no reason at all. Goodra has also received an unexpectedly big drop but I won't go into that one for now.

There's no opportunity cost since tyranitar and the mega are slashed. The fact that can tyranitar can pull off a monstrously bulky sp def set, can support sand sweepers, pursuit trap lati@s, shits on talonflame, the dragon dance set is back and better than ever due to the mega stone are all good reasons for a A+ promotion.

 

[alexwolf]

Punchshroom i also wanted Zygarde for B, but i am not the only one taking the decisions. The SubCoil set is fantastic and truly deserving of B rank imo, and i would also like to hear from the people who put Zygarde at B- what was their reasoning.

I also agree with bumping Mega Tyranitar to A+. It's a terrific late-game sweeper, and there are very few Pokemon on offensive teams that stand in his way. Most of the time, it's simply a matter of doing 20-30% to their sole check and then you can go to town. His bulk is also disgusting, which allows it to set up on things that no other Pokemon can, and survive strong priority even with only 1/4 of it's life. For example, bulky Garchomp's EQ does ~61% to 4 HP Mega Tyranitar, while CB Talonflame's Brave Bird does ~26%.

Oh, and i put Dragonite and Latios to the ''conclusion reached'' category.

 

[Rotosect]

I'm not entirely sure why Zygarde (who was recently pushed down even further) and Dragonite are worlds apart, especially since they are pretty comparable in a good number of roles. Both have DD and Extreme Speed, both can do bulky boosting, both can even parashuffle, it almost seems like they are long lost brothers. Dragonite may have more power (with a competent Special Attack stat) and a great ability, but Zygarde has additional sweeping STAB, a Stealth Rock resistance, and retains great bulk even when not at full health. Sorry alexwolf , but it almost seems like you bumped it down for no reason at all. Goodra has also received an unexpectedly big drop but I won't go into that one for now.

The only real advantages Zygarde has over Dragonite are SR resistance and a more reliable secondary STAB.
Dragonite is far more versatile because it can run CB or a mixed set, while Zygarde has to run Coil or it's completely outclassed by some other dragon. Dragon Dance Zygarde isn't that good because it lacks raw power (100 base attack isn't really threatening even after a DD boost) and its coverage moves are kind of crummy, especially Stone Miss. Mega Charizard X is a far better DD user and if you're already using your mega slot for something else then even Salamence is usually a better choice thanks to the extra power and speed. Oh and DD Salamence is often seen as a worse DDnite, which by extension makes DD Zygarde even worse.
Non-boosting sets are obviously outclassed by Garchomp and Kyurem-B.

Add the fact that Aura Break counts as a non-ability, while the other dragons worth using in OU have something far more useful (Multiscale, Levitate, Rough Skin, Teravolt, Swift Swim, Moxie, Intimidate and Though Claws) and you'll quickly see why its viability in OU is really at the bottom of the barrel.
I'd say it's C+ material at best.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

The only real advantages Zygarde has over Dragonite are SR resistance and a more reliable secondary STAB.
Dragonite is far more versatile because it can run CB or a mixed set, while Zygarde has to run Coil or it's completely outclassed by some other dragon. Dragon Dance Zygarde isn't that good because it lacks raw power (100 base attack isn't really threatening even after a DD boost) and its coverage moves are kind of crummy, especially Stone Miss. Mega Charizard X is a far better DD user and if you're already using your mega slot for something else then even Salamence is usually a better choice thanks to the extra power and speed. Oh and DD Salamence is often seen as a worse DDnite, which by extension makes DD Zygarde even worse.
Non-boosting sets are obviously outclassed by Garchomp and Kyurem-B.

Add the fact that Aura Break counts as a non-ability, while the other dragons worth using in OU have something far more useful (Multiscale, Levitate, Rough Skin, Teravolt, Swift Swim, Moxie, Intimidate and Though Claws) and you'll quickly see why its viability in OU is really at the bottom of the barrel.
I'd say it's C+ material at best.

While you've summed up why the DD set is mostly outclassed, the Coil set is a lot more interesting and, I believe, the reason it was put in B to begin with. However effective it may be, it's certainly not outclassed because nothing else approaching OU even gets Coil. Coil also mitigates Stone Edge's accuracy if you want to run that, which would be very satisfying if not especially useful.