Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

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Mamoswine A to A- : hard to get into fite, walled by shit, everything hits it hard

What.
Resistance to BoltBeam with an immunity to Electrc, Ice/Ground is the best dual STAB combo in the game, only two pokemon in OU wall it (Rotom-W and Skarmory) and both are crippled by Knock Off and does a much better job at checking dragons than fairies.
A-rank is fine.
 
What.
Resistance to BoltBeam with an immunity to Electrc, Ice/Ground is the best dual STAB combo in the game, only two pokemon in OU wall it (Rotom-W and Skarmory) and both are crippled by Knock Off and does a much better job at checking dragons than fairies.
A-rank is fine.

If Mamoswine is running Freeze Dry with just a little bit of Sp.Atk investment, not even Rotom-W walls it :)

16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Rotom-W: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 46.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
If Mamoswine is running Freeze Dry with just a little bit of Sp.Atk investment, not even Rotom-W walls it :)

16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Rotom-W: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 46.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Mamoswine has 130 base Atk and 70 base SpA. Using a special move just to 2HKO a single Pokemon which can hit Mamoswine for super effective damage with its best STAB is just silly.
 
Mamoswine has 130 base Atk and 70 base SpA. Using a special move just to 2HKO a single Pokemon with a super effective STAB is just silly.


Using 16 Sp.Atk EVs--just enough to not compromise that 130 Base Atk--to 2HKO its biggest counter is far from silly and actually becoming very popular. Why do you think Garchomp runs Fire Blast? To check Skarmory who is one of the only Pokemon that can fully counter Grchomp otherwise.
 
Using 16 Sp.Atk EVs--just enough to not compromise that 130 Base Atk--to 2HKO its biggest counter is far from silly and actually becoming very popular. Why do you think Garchomp runs Fire Blast? To check Skarmory who is one of the only Pokemon that can fully counter Grchomp otherwise.
While I will not argue freeze dry as a good option knock off is probably better as you're also hurting skarm and crippling things like chansey as well. A is a great place for the prehistoric pig and I also know some who would argue A+ Mamo is a huge threat not deserving of the blasphemous negative talk.
 
Chestnaught is at least B Tier. Completely shuts out Aegislash, reliable recovery, and a great scouting move should warrant a boost. It's weakness to the likes of Talonflame can easily be remedied and even turned into an advantage by certain teammates like a Dragon Dancing Mega TTar, or rock types and physical walls who are looking to set up rocks. While it's typing creates many weaknesses, there are also a large amount of fantastic resistances. Dark, Rock, Ground, and Water resistances are incredibly useful this gen. Other advantages include dismantling Tyranitar, harassing teams with leech seed, the ability to phaze threats, decently powerful stab Hammer Arm, the ability to create many opportunities to set up spikes, stone edge for the express purpose of destroying predicted switch in counters.

Overall, this is a very versatile Pokemon with a lot of staying power and the ability to force many others out. B- is a tad too low for it IMO.
 
While I will not argue freeze dry as a good option knock off is probably better as you're also hurting skarm and crippling things like chansey as well. A is a great place for the prehistoric pig and I also know some who would argue A+ Mamo is a huge threat not deserving of the blasphemous negative talk.

Freeze dry also hits Gyarados, Kingdra, Gastrodon, and Quagsire 4x super effectively which is very good considering that Gyarados in particular is a good check to Mamo.

I think the fact that with Freeze Dry, Mamoswine is not as one dimensional as it was; while the meta is not as friendly to it at the moment this is enough to keep Mamo in A Rank.
 
What.
Resistance to BoltBeam with an immunity to Electrc, Ice/Ground is the best dual STAB combo in the game, only two pokemon in OU wall it (Rotom-W and Skarmory) and both are crippled by Knock Off and does a much better job at checking dragons than fairies.
A-rank is fine.

Only Skarmory if you decide to run the Freeze Dry Mamo set.

EDIT: OH, got beat to it by Sturdynips
 
Yeah, I too thought Freeze Dry Mamoswine was silly on paper... but in practice, 2HKOing two of your biggest enemies (the ubiquitous rotom-w and gyarados) is very welcome, and Mamo has the moveslot to spare anyway.

Anyway, I support Thundy-I for S-rank as well. It can fill nearly any role from Nasty Plot to Bulk Up, and Prankster TWave and Taunt allow it to stay useful against absolutely any kind of team. As others have said, you can slap it practically anywhere and it will always be a top-tier choice.

I'd like to see Hippowdon for A- rank. It provides a ton of utility to its team, and both its physically and specially defensive spreads check a large number of threats. B rank is far too low for how useful it is. However, I think the suggestion of A+ is too ambitious for it. Hippo still struggles with common weaknesses, it hates status, and it has awful matchups against most popular Defoggers (like Mandi). A- seems like a comfortable place for Hippo.
 
Chestnaught is at least B Tier. Completely shuts out Aegislash, reliable recovery, and a great scouting move should warrant a boost. It's weakness to the likes of Talonflame can easily be remedied and even turned into an advantage by certain teammates like a Dragon Dancing Mega TTar, or rock types and physical walls who are looking to set up rocks. While it's typing creates many weaknesses, there are also a large amount of fantastic resistances. Dark, Rock, Ground, and Water resistances are incredibly useful this gen. Other advantages include dismantling Tyranitar, harassing teams with leech seed, the ability to phaze threats, decently powerful stab Hammer Arm, the ability to create many opportunities to set up spikes, stone edge for the express purpose of destroying predicted switch in counters.

Overall, this is a very versatile Pokemon with a lot of staying power and the ability to force many others out. B- is a tad too low for it IMO.


While I agree that Chesnaught is a great defensive Pokemon, it is pretty easy to shut down. MVenusaur is immune to Leech Seed, resists both of Chesnaught's STABs, and doesn't use any contact moves for Spiky Shield which means that Chesnaught can't really touch him.

With Talonflame literally everywhere along with MPinsir and the double Flying cores, Chesnaught's 4x weakness really makes it hardpress for switch-in opprotunites in OU. Yes, you can put it with a teammate, but I think that the ranking are based on what the Pokemon can do alone.

I'm convinced that Chesnaught should stay in B-. No higher and no lower.
 
Keldeo for A- rank. Keldeo is a great offensive Pokemon, with good Speed, power, and a decent number of switch-in chances. However, checks and counters to it are all over the place, such as Lati@s, Mega Venusaur, Azumarill, and physically defensive Rotom-W, Pokemon that are almost on every team. For this reason, Keldeo's offensive potential is not on the same level as other all out attackers in A rank, such as Greninja, Gengar, Mega Mawile, and Terrakion.

Infernape, Salamence, and Magnezone for C rank. I don't have a solid explantion for those, i just feel that they are not as good as the other Pokemon in C+. There are just so many more better offensive Pokemon than Inferanpe atm, so it's really hard to justify giving it a slot on your team, even with lots of support. Same goes for Salamence, which is outdone by many other Dragon-types and provides nothing unqiue on a team anymore. It does have some merit with a Scarf set on DragMag teams, but it's not like those teams are very viable to begin with. Finally, Magnezone can only trap a minority of the good Steel-types those days, failing to trap and remove some of the most dangerous ones, such as Bisharp, Aegislash, and Excadrill, which is why its use is extremely limited.
 
While I agree that Chesnaught is a great defensive Pokemon, it is pretty easy to shut down. MVenusaur is immune to Leech Seed, resists both of Chesnaught's STABs, and doesn't use any contact moves for Spiky Shield which means that Chesnaught can't really touch him.

I don't have an opinion on Chesnaught, but while Chesnaught is shut down by Venusaur, Venusaur is equally shut down by Chesnaught unless it runs HP Fire, which it rarely ever runs. Even Modest variants can't do much at all to Chesnaught.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 81-96 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (8HKO without any investment, mind you)

Chesnaught will therefore, if its running Spikes, set up layers all over Venusaur, giving Chesnaught the advantage in that matchup. Sure, it may not always run Spikes, but it frequently runs Spikes.
 
This ranking are completely tentative My objective is not making those ranking official.

Tangrowth B- Even B It's severely underrated but has one of the best users of the item Assault Vest with his huge offensive movepool, a Grass type is good to deal with Rotom-Wash, and has coverage to do with many threads 8specially in the physical side of the spectrum.
Amoonguss C+ Regenerator + Spore + decent defenses + decent typing makes him good pivot that can sleep the opponent, Knock Off items, and use Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb for damage. It can also use Toxic to wear down walls.
Froslass C- One of the fasters users of Spikes. One of the few hazard setter that can't spin the hazards on front of him because of being a Ghost type. To add of it, a fast Destiny Bond, and a huge movepool (specially with Ghost + Ice meaning great coverage)
Wobbuffet B Requires a lot of prediction, teams partially dedicated to him (hazard remover, Cleric, Wish) but his role is to take one pokemon and with Shadow Tag is easy to do. it can trap many opponent (ghost types are not that common) and deal with Counter/Mirror Coat unless you are Dark type and uses Special attacks (which is rare). It can Encore set up users indefinitely to take the pokemon to another hreat, and his averga defenses allow to take much dm,aage from the opponent attacks But has Wobbuffet has good HP (no, no.. it doesn't have good HP, it has EXCELLENT HP) to do the role.
Azelf C Hazards leads could be down, Explosion would be bad nerf but this pokemon are not that bad. Being one of the few Psychic types able to use Fire moves with good base power, having Steakth Rock in the movepool, a great 115 Speed, a great movepool, and having the ability to do a physuical set with his more than decent 125 Base Attack is great however, doing this is a metagame with so many Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak (specially from Aegislash)
Slowking C It's usually worse than Slowbro, but it has some use. It can use Nasty Plot set which differenciates itself from Slowbro and can do many of the function of Slowbro but more on the special side (whcih still has relevant resistances )
Sharpedo C I deleted Bronzong because I though it's bad for the current metagame I'll go with Sharpedo, with the Dark buff, Speed Boost and a turn of Protect, it can reach ridiculous amount of speed,has the movepool that he needs (Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Crunch) to cause terror to the metagame. However, it can't take any hit (if Greninja is frail, this is way more frail)
Yanmega C The bad news is that if you see you can't use Mega pinsir (they aren't mutually exclusive, but we know), has a terrible speed, average speed and a bad type. Fortunately hazards are less probable to stay up. yanmkega has two very useful abilities: One that is too good that it banned Blaziken, that with one turn of Protect, it can use damage with Bug Buzz/Air Slash/Shadow Ball--HP Ground the other is Tinted lens which is very powerful because 1/2 resist are neutral hits (another ability that in the right hands, could ban a pokemon)
Meowstic C And i have to say only male Meowstic (female Meowstic ha sno viability neither in OU nor UU). And because Prankster It deserves more C- or D than pure C to be honest. But Prankster and a great support movepool (mainly screens and Twave) added to his high speed (compared to other priority users) makes it useful.
Meloetta C A pokemon with 600 Base Defenses, only two resistances of his standard forme, and the ability to change the move with a move that can induce hax sleep and change the counters is not something to ignore. Also is one of the best special tanks (100/128) of the metagame, has the ability to use Dual STAB + Focus Blast/Shadow Ball with almost perfect coverage. Also Meloetta has the ability to troll some Fire and Posion thinking they can resist the Hyper Voice (mainly, the S rank Mega Venusaur)
Mr. Mime D It has one role in the metagame that does very well. Baton pass. And why? It has Soundproof, necessary to take Sound attacks, specially now that those attacks destroy Baton pass teams completely now that they bypasses Substitute.
Gothitelle C+ Shadow tag This is the ability that could make Gothitelle take the right threatm, set up a Calm Mind and defeat the opponent. if you are not prepared, Gothitelle can be very effective as a trapper of many pokemon with his decent defenses.
Rotom-Mow C Electric/grass has been a good typing for Rotom-M; true that Rotom-W does the role better than don't understimate this things. Electric/grass has leaf Storm, the ability to check many key types and some of the qualities that make Rotom-W (it's a Rotom, after all) like Volt Switch, Will-o-wisp, Pain Split, ...
Shaymin C Seed Flare hurts so much that any pokemon that does not resist 1/4 Grass attacks has to care about his Special defenses not be lowered because in this si the former, Shaymin can 2HKo those opponent. It has more than decent bulk, average movepool and Natural Cure Rest.
Virizion C It serves a role as a tank of special tank relatively taking Electric, Water and Grass attacks. It can use Physical and Special moves (Physical is preferred not to use Focus Miss) and he's good at doing them, it's very fast for a tank.
Tornadus C Prankster taunt is gimmicky but usable. And for dedicated Rain teamns, start ewoith a early Rain Dance is a good idea. It has the ability to spam Hurricane in rain.
Cobalion C Is really viable in UU because it can deal with a possible broken attack there that makes. It has the type of Lucario which is a "great type" Is fast, has great defense and accepotable special bulk, is fast and can learn many moves. Recommend to be physuical to not use Focus Blast (named Focus Miss).

And to end, unrelated to the rest, I want to answer a question:
Are item-less sets viable in the metagame right now? If you go to the UU Beta thread, you know why I'm saying this.

I'm talking about things like this (and I put a Psychic type on purpose)
Latios @ Nothing
252 Spa 252 Spe 4 HP
Ability:Levitate
Nature:Timid
-Calm Mind
-Psyshock
-Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt/Surf/Ice Beam/Draco Meteor.
 
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Chesnaught is absolutely great. It works like ferrothorn in that it has the leech seed+protect move combo and hazards but it can check different things, the most notable being dragon dance mega tyranitar, aegislash, terrakion, gengar without sludge wave and excadrill. I would put it at B+. Thundurus is a god, its so much better than almost everything else its not even funny. Nasty plot sets cant be walled, any set with thunder wave can shut down most revenge killers, taunt shits on deoxys-s and support pokemons in general, and of course he can combine all of those to screw with anything it wants. There's also sub and mixed sets that can further harrass the opponent. The point is, thundurus has an answer to just about anything and is one of the easiest pokemon to fit on a team. Solid S imo.

Keldeo for A- rank. Keldeo is a great offensive Pokemon, with good Speed, power, and a decent number of switch-in chances. However, checks and counters to it are all over the place, such as Lati@s, Mega Venusaur, Azumarill, and physically defensive Rotom-W, Pokemon that are almost on every team. For this reason, Keldeo's offensive potential is not on the same level as other all out attackers in A rank, such as Greninja, Gengar, Mega Mawile, and Terrakion.
Holy shit no. Keldeo is a complete nuke, there's just hardly any good switch ins for it. Azumarill can literally come in once (assuming its max hp and stealth rocks are not on the field, otherwise it can never come in), rotom-w is 2hkoed by secret sword regardless of the set, lati@s die to icy wind. The only viable answers nowadays are av tangrowth, av slowbro and mega venusaur, only the latter which is common. Its amazing how many teams keldeo can just run through with specs hydro pumps which makes it a great partner for just about any sweeper. I had previously nominated keldeo for A+ and after a lot more testing i am more conviced about this than ever.
 
This ranking are completely tentative My objective is not making those ranking official.

Tangrowth B- Even B It's severely underrated but has one of the best users of the item Assault Vest with his huge offensive movepool, a Grass type is good to deal with Rotom-Wash, and has coverage to do with many threads 8specially in the physical side of the spectrum.
Amoonguss C+ Regenerator + Spore + decent defenses + decent typing makes him good pivot that can sleep the opponent, Knock Off items, and use Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb for damage. It can also use Toxic to wear down walls.
Froslass C- One of the fasters users of Spikes. One of the few hazard setter that can't spin the hazards on front of him because of being a Ghost type. To add of it, a fast Destiny Bond, and a huge movepool (specially with Ghost + Ice meaning great coverage)
Wobbuffet B Requires a lot of prediction, teams partially dedicated to him (hazard remover, Cleric, Wish) but his role is to take one pokemon and with Shadow Tag is easy to do. it can trap many opponent (ghost types are not that common) and deal with Counter/Mirror Coat unless you are Dark type and uses Special attacks (which is rare). It can Encore set up users indefinitely to take the pokemon to another hreat, and his averga defenses allow to take much dm,aage from the opponent attacks But has Wobbuffet has good HP (no, no.. it doesn't have good HP, it has EXCELLENT HP) to do the role.
Azelf C Hazards leads could be down, Explosion would be bad nerf but this pokemon are not that bad. Being one of the few Psychic types able to use Fire moves with good base power, having Steakth Rock in the movepool, a great 115 Speed, a great movepool, and having the ability to do a physuical set with his more than decent 125 Base Attack is great however, doing this is a metagame with so many Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak (specially from Aegislash)
Slowking C It's usually worse than Slowbro, but it has some use. It can use Nasty Plot set which differenciates itself from Slowbro and can do many of the function of Slowbro but more on the special side (whcih still has relevant resistances )
Sharpedo C I deleted Bronzong because I though it's bad for the current metagame I'll go with Sharpedo, with the Dark buff, Speed Boost and a turn of Protect, it can reach ridiculous amount of speed,has the movepool that he needs (Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Crunch) to cause terror to the metagame. However, it can't take any hit (if Greninja is frail, this is way more frail)
Yanmega C The bad news is that if you see you can't use Mega pinsir (they aren't mutually exclusive, but we know), has a terrible speed, average speed and a bad type. Fortunately hazards are less probable to stay up. yanmkega has two very useful abilities: One that is too good that it banned Blaziken, that with one turn of Protect, it can use damage with Bug Buzz/Air Slash/Shadow Ball--HP Ground the other is Tinted lens which is very powerful because 1/2 resist are neutral hits (another ability that in the right hands, could ban a pokemon)
Meowstic C And i have to say only male Meowstic (female Meowstic ha sno viability neither in OU nor UU). And because Prankster It deserves more C- or D than pure C to be honest. But Prankster and a great support movepool (mainly screens and Twave) added to his high speed (compared to other priority users) makes it useful.
Meloetta C A pokemon with 600 Base Defenses, only two resistances of his standard forme, and the ability to change the move with a move that can induce hax sleep and change the counters is not something to ignore. Also is one of the best special tanks (100/128) of the metagame, has the ability to use Dual STAB + Focus Blast/Shadow Ball with almost perfect coverage. Also Meloetta has the ability to troll some Fire and Posion thinking they can resist the Hyper Voice (mainly, the S rank Mega Venusaur)
Mr. Mime D It has one role in the metagame that does very well. Baton pass. And why? It has Soundproof, necessary to take Sound attacks, specially now that those attacks destroy Baton pass teams completely now that they bypasses Substitute.
Gothitelle C+ Shadow tag This is the ability that could make Gothitelle take the right threatm, set up a Calm Mind and defeat the opponent. if you are not prepared, Gothitelle can be very effective as a trapper of many pokemon with his decent defenses.
Rotom-Mow C Electric/grass has been a good typing for Rotom-M; true that Rotom-W does the role better than don't understimate this things. Electric/grass has leaf Storm, the ability to check many key types and some of the qualities that make Rotom-W (it's a Rotom, after all) like Volt Switch, Will-o-wisp, Pain Split, ...
Shaymin C Seed Flare hurts so much that any pokemon that does not resist 1/4 Grass attacks has to care about his Special defenses not be lowered because in this si the former, Shaymin can 2HKo those opponent. It has more than decent bulk, average movepool and Natural Cure Rest.
Virizion C It serves a role as a tank of special tank relatively taking Electric, Water and Grass attacks. It can use Physical and Special moves (Physical is preferred not to use Focus Miss) and he's good at doing them, it's very fast for a tank.
Tornadus C Prankster taunt is gimmicky but usable. And for dedicated Rain teamns, start ewoith a early Rain Dance is a good idea. It has the ability to spam Hurricane in rain.
Cobalion C Is really viable in UU because it can deal with a possible broken attack there that makes. It has the type of Lucario which is a "great type" Is fast, has great defense and accepotable special bulk, is fast and can learn many moves. Recommend to be physuical to not use Focus Blast (named Focus Miss).

This again........ Oh that hurts to read. Would you mind at least make it double spaced between each entry next time? Like so

Tangrowth : *reasons for moving up/down*

Shaymin: *reasons for moving up/down even though its not eligible for ranking*
Wait....oh now its unreserved for ranking. K.....
 
Yeah A's too huge. Agree with everything alexwolf said regarding those four moving down, never ever have I had an issue with any of those, but I'll go in depth with other Pokes I feel can move from various ranks (a lot)

-Azumarill to A+
This thing is one of three viable fairies, one of which being next to useless until it Mega Evolves. Azumarill is one of those few Pokemon that are incredibly easy to fit into a team, and is easily the best offensive Dragon counter. Only weak to Electric, Grass, and Poison, leaving it with only one reasonably worrisome weakness (elec) and two other weaknesses that are easy to take care of. Huge Power gives it 436 atk at max investment, which is more natural power than fully invested Landy-T. Hard-hitting priority with Waterfall and Play Rough is very good coverage, and it also has access to Knock Off which everyone knows how good that is. Also can Belly Drum and has access to Superpower, Aqua Tail, Brick Break, Body Slam, and has base 100 HP which means those coveted 101 HP subs.
-Landorus-T, Mandibuzz, and Mamoswine all can move up to A+.
There isn't much to say to go in-depth for these, they all have pretty apparent roles and they're all very useful and important. Landy-T is one of the best offensive pivots in the game, and helps with Intimidate. Mandibuzz is one of the few reliable Aegislash counters, can Defog, can shut down Set-up sweepers with Foul Play, has Knock Off, Whirlwind, and Tailwind for utility, and has Roost and Toxic. Insane bulk on both sides and doesn't have to worry about attacking stats. Mamoswine you can see above, only thing holding it back is inability to reliably stand against Rotom-W.

-Things to be moved down to A-:
Gyarados (both), Terrakion, Latios, Greninja, Keldeo (see above), and Conkeldurr.

Gyarados (both):
It's really hard to come up with a worthwhile argument on paper to say why Gyarados isn't worthy of A ranking. In practice, it's insanely easy to fit on an electric or rock type move to deal with normal Gyarados and the weaknesses just increase when you add on Dark in Mevoing. You don't have to worry about using certain EV spreads or moves for Gyara let alone run dedicated counters for it because it's so easy to prepare for in general when team building. Intimidate is not exactly bad, but Rotom-W is so common that Gyarados has a hard time coming in without thinking of Rotom waiting for it. It's still a very good Pokemon, just easy to not worry about Gyarados when in game when some things in A prevent you from wanting to use certain moves (Bisharp) or aren't as easy to naturally prepare for (Gengar).

Terrakion:
His typing isn't this end-all combo it used to be. Commonly runs choice, and very easy to switch in a Steel type on Rock moves and a Ghost or Flying type on Fighting moves. Nice counter to Dark types, but so are fairies and other fighting types. Still very powerful, but when you are weak to Ground, Water, Fairy, Steel, and Fighting and 108 is just under the new premier speed tier in 110 he just isn't getting it done like he used to. I would use lots of other Fighting types before him.

Latios:
There's a reason Latias isn't listed here, she plays a different role which is much better. Latios is supposed to be a powerhouse, but he's so incredibly easy to play around it doesn't matter. My personal team's biggest weakness is on paper Latios and I've never had him be able to KO anything before. Fairies and Darks are rampant, rendering both his STABs useless. HP Fire isn't as powerful anymore, and Thunderbolt is easily stopped by grounds. Only reliable coverage he has that isn't blocked is Surf. Easy to force out by playing with these types and isn't bulky enough to take a hit. I'd run lots of other Dragon types before him. Strongest Specially based Dragon gives it ability to stay in A-, but he's just ineffective compared to lots of other mons around and above him. Latias at least has enough bulk to be worthwhile.

Greninja:
Has anyone actually looked at a teambuilder and said "Oh crap man Greninja is gonna be so hard to kill"? He's incredibly frail, isn't strong enough without being choiced or LO'd, and his "mindgames" with Protean are way easier to get around. Everyone knows what move Greninja is going to be using when he comes in on you, and most mons run moves to cover types that are good against them. You can actually abuse Protean so stuff like Charizard can come in safely and kill where he normally wouldn't be able to against water types. He's naturally frailer than Infernape, just to put that into perspective. He's fast and has infinite STAB, but it's just become too easy to play around and he's way too easy to revenge kill. Not that high on him.

Conkeldurr:
He's supposed to be this super bulky status absorber with Guts and Assault Vest but in practice he struggles to do a lot of damage. Mainly only good for picking off weakened mons. Definitely a threat, but lack of coverage or offense boosting item kind of hurts him. Fighting is just Talonflame/Pinsir lure too, which is never good. Still a good mon, just not A Rank in practice.

-Various crap making minor movements:
Clefable to B, Hippowdon to A-, Mega Gard to B+, Slowbro to B+, Tornadus-T to B+, Crawdaunt to B-, add Slowking to C-

Clefable has been complete crap every time I've gone up against it. I don't know if it's been the people using it or what, but it was deadweight. Easy to 2HKO and major set-up bait. Hippowdown was discussed above. Mega Gard actually is way more scary than I thought it would be when you go against it. You have to play extremely cautiously or it will punish you. Can easily net OHKO's against various mons. Slowbro is fantastic, sets can range Defensive to Choice Specs. Incredibly versatile and very good natural bulk and decent attacking stats. Tornadus-T is still a monster, U-Turn with Regenerator is not something to undermine. Can no longer rely on Hurricane being 100% accurate all game but still threatening nonetheless. Crawdaunt is a powerhouse only held back by speed. Very good at wall breaking. Slowking is a bit difficult to explain so I'll let the analysis do that.

List is a still a slight bit bulky in some places and lacking on other ranks. We should fix that.
 
I don't have an opinion on Chesnaught, but while Chesnaught is shut down by Venusaur, Venusaur is equally shut down by Chesnaught unless it runs HP Fire, which it rarely ever runs. Even Modest variants can't do much at all to Chesnaught.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 81-96 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (8HKO without any investment, mind you)

Chesnaught will therefore, if its running Spikes, set up layers all over Venusaur, giving Chesnaught the advantage in that matchup. Sure, it may not always run Spikes, but it frequently runs Spikes.
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 290-344 (76.3 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Your point confuses me
 
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 290-344 (76.3 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Your point confuses me

Brawl's quote

Chesnaught is immune to sludge bomb because of bulletproof.

and a list of other moves he gets to ignore:
http://www.serebii.net/abilitydex/bulletproof.shtml

Which by itself is ridiculous. He can single handidly wall Gengar (unless it decides to run something like Sludge Wave or something) meaning that he is a tank that finds a lot of opportunities to switch in/set stuff up. Easy highish ranking.
 
Gyarados (both):
It's really hard to come up with a worthwhile argument on paper to say why Gyarados isn't worthy of A ranking. In practice, it's insanely easy to fit on an electric or rock type move to deal with normal Gyarados and the weaknesses just increase when you add on Dark in Mevoing. You don't have to worry about using certain EV spreads or moves for Gyara let alone run dedicated counters for it because it's so easy to prepare for in general when team building. Intimidate is not exactly bad, but Rotom-W is so common that Gyarados has a hard time coming in without thinking of Rotom waiting for it. It's still a very good Pokemon, just easy to not worry about Gyarados when in game when some things in A prevent you from wanting to use certain moves (Bisharp) or aren't as easy to naturally prepare for (Gengar).

Got to disagree with this. Some rock/electric typ moves on a team dont realy help against a well used Mega Gyarados. Due to its normal typing and intimidate it gets lots of switch in opportunities and chances to set up, more than any other common sweeper, and once its set up its almost impossible to stop it with just one poke. Against some electric/rock types it will just change its typing, take pitiful dmg from the attack and proceed to 2hko so it needs at least 2 things to stop it, usually more because of prior dmg or simply not having the perfect answers on the team, one poke to force its mega evo and another to stop it in its mega evo form and that assumes that the Gyara user even tries to setup while both pokes are still around, he always has the option to just bring it in, hit the expected switchin with something and switch out to wear down its counters. I cant even tell how many teams i have swept with Gyara despite Rotom-w beeing on them. Even against pokes like terrakion that have the ability to ohko both forms its still a 50/50 prediction Game and far from a save counter.
 
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Long wall of bold bullshit text


Seriously, this is like the 4th or 5th time I've seen you type like this in the thread and it really has to stop. Nobody can read a massive wall of text and the bold type just hurts people eyes.

Either stop typing only in bold, use some damn spaces/paragraph breaks, or stop posting. Thanks.


I don't have an opinion on Chesnaught, but while Chesnaught is shut down by Venusaur, Venusaur is equally shut down by Chesnaught unless it runs HP Fire, which it rarely ever runs. Even Modest variants can't do much at all to Chesnaught.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 81-96 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (8HKO without any investment, mind you)

Chesnaught will therefore, if its running Spikes, set up layers all over Venusaur, giving Chesnaught the advantage in that matchup. Sure, it may not always run Spikes, but it frequently runs Spikes.


You've made a great point here. So Chesnaught vs MVenusaur will usually end in a stalemate unless one of them uses a move that is normally unconventional. I personally run HP Fire on all of my Venusaur sets but you are right that it is pretty obscure.
 
Meloetta

Certainly one of the cuties in the group, this Pokemon isn't all giggles and gaggles when it comes down to competitive battling, this girl kicks some serious Pokemon backside. Her ability to switch between two forms with nearly opposite counters is unmatched when it comes down to common OU battlers. She packs an awesome base 128 Sp. Atk. and Sp. Def. in Aria form, allowing her to switch in on special attackers to sponge their attacks. Generation VI graced her with the new item Assault Vest, which greatly increases her Sp. Def. and works excellently with the Relic Mixed set from B/W. Beyond the wonderful Aria Forme, Meloetta can change into her threatening Pirouette Forme at will through the handy STAB move Relic Song, which with Serene Grace also has a 20% chance of putting the opponent to sleep upon switching Formes. In Pirouette Forme, Meloetta's Speed and Attack is greatly boosted to base 128, allowing her to transform from a special Attacker/Wall into a fast physical powerhouse with access to Close Combat. Give her Psychic, Relic Song, Close Combat, and Thunderbolt (for some nice coverage) and you've got yourself a kickass cutie. Also fun to play with in the PokeAmie!

Ranking: A+
 
Thundy-T is C+? It seems too good for that rank imo, I know Thundurus-I is pretty much always a better choice but the one thing Thundurus-T has over its Incarnate counterpart is much more power which means greater wallbreaking potential. Volt Absorb, while not as good as Prankster, still has its uses as well. Maybe bump it up to B- at least?
 
Meloetta

Certainly one of the cuties in the group, this Pokemon isn't all giggles and gaggles when it comes down to competitive battling, this girl kicks some serious Pokemon backside. Her ability to switch between two forms with nearly opposite counters is unmatched when it comes down to common OU battlers. She packs an awesome base 128 Sp. Atk. and Sp. Def. in Aria form, allowing her to switch in on special attackers to sponge their attacks. Generation VI graced her with the new item Assault Vest, which greatly increases her Sp. Def. and works excellently with the Relic Mixed set from B/W. Beyond the wonderful Aria Forme, Meloetta can change into her threatening Pirouette Forme at will through the handy STAB move Relic Song, which with Serene Grace also has a 20% chance of putting the opponent to sleep upon switching Formes. In Pirouette Forme, Meloetta's Speed and Attack is greatly boosted to base 128, allowing her to transform from a special Attacker/Wall into a fast physical powerhouse with access to Close Combat. Give her Psychic, Relic Song, Close Combat, and Thunderbolt (for some nice coverage) and you've got yourself a kickass cutie. Also fun to play with in the PokeAmie!

Ranking: A+
No.

In her normal forme Meloetta is far too slow to be threatening, and has to take a turn to turn into her (admittedly much better) pirouette forme. The fact that she has to waste an entire turn to be at her most useful makes her FAR from A+. If we're going to rank her, she should be somewhere in C (I could maybe be convinced on B-).

Thundy-T is C+? It seems too good for that rank imo, I know Thundurus-I is pretty much always a better choice but the one thing Thundurus-T has over its Incarnate counterpart is much more power which means greater wallbreaking potential. Volt Absorb, while not as good as Prankster, still has its uses as well. Maybe bump it up to B- at least?
Thundy-T is basically completely outclassed by I, which is why it's in C currently. However, the fact that it does have significantly more power gives it an important niche and I would definitely agree with a bump to B- or B. Also, I believe it does the Agility set better than Thundurus-I due to its higher unboosted special attack (nobody cares about 101 / 111 speed at +2).
 
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