Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

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-_-

ok guys stop feeding the troll now. its not worth it anymore. subject change plz.



Doesn't even have to be about that, honestly. This is almost worse than the Donphan or Mega Venusaur bullshit.

Mega Aggron definitely in B/B+, it stops so much stuff. Lack of recovery isn't much of an issue because any neutral physical attack is going to do like 10%, it's really easy to pass wishes to it.

There is absolutely no reason to run Mega Banette at all. Sableye does everything it does, the only meaningful prankster moves it has over Sableye are Destiny Bond and Disable. I tried to use it for a bit, and the best use I could come up for it was being able to somewhat reliably stop a significant threat (e.g. +1 X-zard) with a 1 to 1 trade.

Houndoom is actually really, really solid. Great coverage from STABs alone, great speed, good SpA and Nasty Plot, and it can potentially bring its counters down with it Destiny Bond. I'd also say B for it, I think it's a really underrated mega. People sort of ignored it because they saw its ability, thought it was only good in sun and said "if I'm going to use a sun attacker why not Y-zard?" Y-zard doesn't get nasty plot, is slower, and doesn't have Destiny Bond.

No opinion on Mega Sheep.

252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 198-234 (49 - 57.9%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is why. Being stuck with a base 77 defense is not a good thing. And this isn't the only reason why Meloetta has troubles

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Meloetta: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These are all things that can easily come in on Meloetta. I'm sure you're starting to see my point.

Meloetta changes from Psychic to Fighting after relic song, it'll resist Bug and Dark. It's also got 128 base speed, 128 base attack and Close Combat so no, Greninja absolutely can't switch in.

And as for ghost switch ins blocking Relic Song:

252 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 159-187 (49 - 57.7%) -- 51.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 133-156 (41 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It can 2HKO with max SpA EVs (but of course you'd be less effective in P form) or 3HKO with no investment, so it wins the match-up anyway. Also Iron Head is not a very good move to run on Aegislash.

Mr. Rating was trolling, sure, but now that I'm looking at it I don't actually think it's that bad. I've absolutely never used it so I could be wrong, but on paper it doesn't look bad.
 
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Meloetta has the Special defense of Sylveon (more or less), a pokemon that is known for being a special wall. and has a special attack of 128. His 90 Speed in Aria forme means that because she isn't going to outspeed nothing in the 90-100 territory it can afford to run a Modest nature, and even having a Bulky Meloetta (252 Hp 252 SpA Modest). Meloetta is noit that threatening in OU but in UU it's very dangerous.

Remember that even the postv appear positive thesuggest is for C tier.
 
Holy shit no. Keldeo is a complete nuke, there's just hardly any good switch ins for it. Azumarill can literally come in once (assuming its max hp and stealth rocks are not on the field, otherwise it can never come in), rotom-w is 2hkoed by secret sword regardless of the set, lati@s die to icy wind. The only viable answers nowadays are av tangrowth, av slowbro and mega venusaur, only the latter which is common. Its amazing how many teams keldeo can just run through with specs hydro pumps which makes it a great partner for just about any sweeper. I had previously nominated keldeo for A+ and after a lot more testing i am more conviced about this than ever.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 144-170 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 108-128 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Best Case Scenario:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 144-170 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 230-272 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't really have too big a feeling either way about Keldeo, but completely discounting Latias as a counter seems kinda silly, seeing how proper prediction at BEST sets you up for a 2hko, and this involves locking you into a move that won't really hit anything other then Lati@s or other dragons for a significant amount of damage. Meanwhile Latias will either dent Keldeo or 2hko no matter what set she runs. And if Keldeo mispredicts:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 107-126 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
I don't really have too big a feeling either way about Keldeo, but completely discounting Latias as a counter seems kinda silly, seeing how proper prediction at BEST sets you up for a 2hko, and this involves locking you into a move that won't really hit anything other then Lati@s or other dragons for a significant amount of damage. Meanwhile Latias will either dent Keldeo or 2hko no matter what set she runs.

The fact that you can get a clean 2HKO on the most common Latias (4/0 with LO) with Icy Wind, which means it can't switch-in on it since it will be slower than Keldeo after the speed drop, just shows how dangerous Keldeo is. A lot of Latias run Healing Wish over Recover and most run LO now because otherwise you can't OHKO Keldeo with Psyshock so any damage done is permanent. Even if you switch out after the first Icy Wind if you take SR damage just once Specs Keldeo can very likely KO you with Hydro Pump the next time it comes in so you just need to predict right once and thats not even accounting for posssible LO damage Latias might have taken.

Still Latias is one of the few Pokemon that can at least semi-reliably switch in on Keldeo and threaten it the only other Pokemon in S/A that can do that are Mega-Venu and Rotom-W both also risk being 2HKOd. Keldeo is IMO one of the most underrated Pokemon and i think A+ would be justified it is just as threatening as all the other Pokemon in that rank and alot of teams are unprepared for it at the moment. It hates being weak to Talonflame, but that is a threat you need to prepare for anyway and being resistant to a lot of other priority moves especially Sucker Punch which gets more and more common is great.
 
Im really intrigued by Rhyperior's analysis in this thread, and I'd be curious on others' thoughts on it?

I find it sorta an odd, but interesting Pokemon currently. It seems it can do its job far better in this meta, and appreciates Sand support...

But, what's its identity? Does it actually fulfill a role well enough to justify a spot on a team?
 
Meloetta has the Special defense of Sylveon (more or less), a pokemon that is known for being a special wall. and has a special attack of 128. His 90 Speed in Aria forme means that because she isn't going to outspeed nothing in the 90-100 territory it can afford to run a Modest nature, and even having a Bulky Meloetta (252 Hp 252 SpA Modest). Meloetta is noit that threatening in OU but in UU it's very dangerous.

Remember that even the postv appear positive thesuggest is for C tier.

THIS IS NOT UU. THIS IS OU. Some of the meloetta posts do make sense, and yes meloetta can be effective in battle, but rarely so. Now i will say, some of yall take this music mon hate too far. meloetta ohko'es gengar and can OHKO T-tar and sp.deftran if you're ballsy enough to try a mixed set with CC like I have, and on paper it sounds great. In practice it's a little iffy. Meloetta has a huge 4MSS in it's mixed set if it tries one, but it can break stall if used effectively. Life Orb CC coming off a base 128 attack hurts. A lot. It's essentially the same Life Orb Terrak's close combat. with the mono special set, we know that every dark type in existence walls it. Wait, it has focus blast tho!!!1!!, they say. Although modest focus blast has a good chance to ohko standard 252 hp ttar in sand, it's an unreliable move, and should only be mentioned.also, when the main set is special, don't list mandibuzz as a counter unless you say w/out thunderbolt. Meloetta 2HKOs defensive buzz w/ tbolt.

Now that i've covered meloetta's power, let's talk about it's downfalls. Relic song, being one of the main one. The weak STAB meloetta has that allows it to change formes. this is it's one major downfall. Not being able to switch between forms freely severely hurts it, as relic song is pitifully weak in pirouette forme, and you'll usually be forced out unless you wanna try to get the sleep w/ relic song (which can come in handy sometimes, don't downgrade it. That 20% chance to sleep is 20% more than most other attacking moves) It also is easily stopped by ghosts, halting any momentum you could have previously had. another problem is it's typing, leaving it weak to knock off, whic is almost a sin this generation, and leaving it to be easily pursuit trapped by scarf TTar and other TTars if you aren't mixed. another problem-It's speed in aria forme. base 90 isn't slow by any means, but for an offensive mon in this metagame, 90 is pretty low. outsped and ohko'd by many common threats birngs up another problem, and the final one i'll cover for now. It's base 77 defense. Base 77 is relatively bulky for an offensive mon in normal standards, and 100/77 are pretty good overall, but with all of the knock off running around well...EVERYWHERE, it isn't doing meloetta any justice. The moral of this story is screw knock off and i think meloetta should just stay c+ and if it moves bring it to B-

Moral of le story is screw knock off :]
 
Meloetta seems way harder to use in practice than on paper.. sure you can relic song on a predicted switch to keep the momentum on your side, but if you mispredict then you throw away your momentum super hard. You know what other move allows you to deal damage and transform your pokemon into a completely different pokemon with a whole new set of counters? U-turn. And that move doesnt screw you over too hard if the opponent decides not to switch after all. I dont think Meloetta's trick is particularly exciting at all..
 
Meloetta is kind of like Mew in that it can potentially run several viable sets, but in many cases they are outclassed by something else. Her greatest asset lies in her unpredictability. She could be running a mixed Relic Song set, a CM set, Choice Specs (or even Scarf,) Life Orb or something more defensive. Once you know what she's trying to do, though, she becomes much less threatening, as all of her sets have well-defined counters (even is she, as a whole, doesn't really.) She never has every move she needs to get past every foe.

That said, the current OU metagame is pretty unkind to her. Ghosts, particularly Aegislash, are pretty prevalent, and can easily come in on a predicted Relic Song or Close Combat. Pirouette form is hurt by a weakness to common priority, including Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, Talonflame's Brave Bird and Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack. Both formes are hit neutrally by a bunch of other priority, as well, and neither has such defensive bulk as to take those moves gracefully. In general it's easy to prey on Meloetta's Defense.

All in all, I think Meloetta belongs in C+. Other Pokemon do mixed sets, CM, choice, defensive and attacking sets better, so she's more-or-less completely outclassed. She's usable if only for her unpredictability.
 
Alright here goes I'm
Nominating Garchomp/MegaChomp for S
Garchomp is one of the biggest threats this gen with huge versatility thanks to its new mega it can wall break as well as Kyube with great mixed stats and huge bulk for an offensive mon.
There is also the old scarf chomp as effective as ever. SD chomp is still an amazing sweeper if only slightly worse due to priority prevalence. Tank chomp is still great and has the option of going mega.
And he is one of the best Sneaky Pebbles setters in the game with more offensive presence than excadrill or mamoswine.
 
Yea I'm gonna have to agree with Audiosurfer that there's definitely too much hype surrounding Krookodile in this thread. Even the Defensive set really has very few safe switch-ins despite Intimidate because its very mediocre defensive typing.

Plus, it isn't much more bulky than it's common OU counterparts such as Landorus-T.

(-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 136-162 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 64.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery)
(-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Landorus-T: 138-163 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- 96.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery).

This example is just showing neutral hits too, Krookodile's typing gives it many more weaknesses it has to deal with on the Physical side, such as Fighting and Bug, that Landorus-T doesn't have to worry about at all. Defensively, the only thing Krookodile's Dark Typing really helps with is eating Knock Off's which means it has to sacrifice its only form of Recovery.

Its Offensive set isn't all that impressive either, and it's quite easy to Revenge Kill with Krookodile's mediocre speed stat. Plus with all of the Rotom-W, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Lando-T, Mega Venusaur and Hippowdon that are running around I find it very hard to see Krookodile ever pulling off a legit sweep against a solid OU Team / Player.

So yea, Krookodile has some neat sets that can be used in OU if you really want to play around with it, but I have a really hard time seeing it have any sort of significant impact on the metagame. I think C+ rank would fit it much better than B.
 
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Alright here goes I'm
Nominating Garchomp/MegaChomp for S
Garchomp is one of the biggest threats this gen with huge versatility thanks to its new mega it can wall break as well as Kyube with great mixed stats and huge bulk for an offensive mon.
There is also the old scarf chomp as effective as ever. SD chomp is still an amazing sweeper if only slightly worse due to priority prevalence. Tank chomp is still great and has the option of going mega.
And he is one of the best Sneaky Pebbles setters in the game with more offensive presence than excadrill or mamoswine.

I dont know about its wallbreaking capabilities since i havent tried the set yet, but as a sweeper i dont think that Garchomp deserves S Rank. Its good, yes, but without something to boost its speed its to easy to stop it. There are lots of things that can outspeed and kill it, not to mention the walls that can stop it even at +2. Choiced sets arent realy thrilling either since both stabs are nothing u want to be locked into in the current meta.
 
Yea I'm gonna have to agree with Audiosurfer that there's definitely too much hype surrounding Krookodile in this thread. Even the Defensive set really has very few safe switch-ins despite Intimidate because its very mediocre defensive typing.

Plus, it still isn't very bulky after Intimidate, still being clean 2hko'd by Jolly Mega Pinsir's Return for example (252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) whereas Landorus-T can easily come in and actually threaten Mega Pinsir out with Stone Edge (-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Landorus-T: 138-163 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- 96.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery). This example is just showing neutral hits too, Krookodile's typing gives it many more weaknesses it has to deal with on the Physical side, such as Fighting and Bug, that Landorus-T doesn't have to worry about at all. Defensively, the only thing Krookodile's Dark Typing really helps with is eating Knock Off's which means it has to sacrifice its only form of Recovery.

Its Offensive set isn't all that impressive either, and it's quite easy to Revenge Kill with Krookodile's mediocre speed stat. Plus with all of the Rotom-W, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Lando-T, Mega Venusaur and Hippowdon that are running around I find it very hard to see Krookodile ever pulling off a legit sweep against a solid OU Team / Player.

So yea, Krookodile has some neat sets that can be used in OU if you really want to play around with it, but I have a really hard time seeing it have any sort of significant impact on the metagame. I think C+ rank would fit it much better than B.
you did not do -1 attack for pinsir vs krookodile.
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 136-162 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 64.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery.

and dark gives a resistance to dark, ghost and an immunity to psychic. which is solid considering how common dark and ghost moves are.

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 139-164 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- 82.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 250-294 (65.4 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

as an example

also you can't complain that krookodile has no recovery when landorus also has no recovery

I agree with you on the offensive set, it kind of sucks compared to other moxie sweepers.
 
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One of my favorites megas still unranked, MHoundoom should be B- or C+, goods STABs, Nasty Plot, 115 Base Speed, 140 SpA and a nice bulk (75/90/90 for a sweeper aren't bad) but doesn't have coverage options (HP, Solar Beam, that's all) and totaly walled by TTar, Blissey/Chansey, Sylveon, SpD Heatran, etc., and an useless ability (Solar Powers sets needs huge support).
Destiny Bond + 3 attack can deals many damage and DB can take down TTar, then you Specs Latios can spam DM.

ok why is Krookodile in B rank atm? no ou expert but I fail to see what makes it worthy of such a high ranking
Because:
I think it's time to reveal yet another underrated and forgotten Pokemon who shines in this metagame: Krookodile.

Dark is now one of the best offensive and even defensive typings right now, as the buff to Knock Off, the fact that Steel no longer resists Dark, and Dark resisting itself and Ghost, make it very powerful. Krookodile has two excellent abilities that allow it to effectively fulfill an offensive or defensive role.

For me, I've been using Krookodile defensively on a stall team I made with Plus, and it's been a very important member. With Intimidate and its workable defensive spread of 95 HP/80 Def/70 SpD, it's actually really bulky on the physical side, to the surprise of many people. For comparison sake:

-1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 102-121 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 118-141 (28 - 33.5%) -- 92.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Intimidate itself is just one of the best abilities in the game right now, easily hindering the slew of scary physical sweepers from causing too much harm, and it's the only Intimidate Pokemon that can actually beat Bisharp. Furthermore, I'd consider it to be on par with Mandibuzz when it comes to countering all variants of Aegislash (even ones with Head Smash!). Krookodile is also very fast as a defensive supporter, making it a potent stallbreaker at the same time with Taunt + Knock Off. It also has access to Stealth Rock, Toxic, and Dragon Tail, depending on what your team prefers. I've been running Stealth Rock/Taunt/Knock Off/Earthquake and it works like a charm. The only unfortunate thing about Krookodile is its lack of reliable recovery, as you're limited to Leftovers recovery or running some kind of RestTalk set with Dragon Tail and Knock Off, but this doesn't really matter. It forces switches like mad, doesn't take much of a beating from the things it's switched into, has a sweet defensive typing, and arguably one of the most overpowered moves in the game in Knock Off.

Looking at the other side of Krookodile, you'll notice that it's a very formidable offensive Pokemon. Base 117 Attack is nothing to scoff at, not even accounting for Krookodile's Moxie ability, and its base 92 Speed is pretty decent (outpaces Landorus-T). Switch Krookodile in against a weakened target or that's Dark weak and you'll essentially be guaranteed a Moxie boost with Pursuit. STAB Dark/Ground is stellar coverage on its own as well, only being resisted by Hydreigon, Togekiss, Chesnaught, Breloom, and Mandibuzz I think. Using Stone Edge as coverage allows Krookodile to bypass Togekiss and Mandibuzz and hits Hydreigon neutrally. Although it's walled by Chesnaught and Breloom, the former is kind of underused and the latter can't switch into a boosted Knock Off or Earthquake. Breloom also sucks now so whatever.

For these reasons, I am nominating Krookodile for B rank.
 
I dont know about its wallbreaking capabilities since i havent tried the set yet, but as a sweeper i dont think that Garchomp deserves S Rank. Its good, yes, but without something to boost its speed its to easy to stop it. There are lots of things that can outspeed and kill it, not to mention the walls that can stop it even at +2. Choiced sets arent realy thrilling either since both stabs are nothing u want to be locked into in the current meta.
It is the second best scarfer in ou ( to genesect) and its versatility is matched only by the far weaker deoxys S. It is the second strongest dragon behind the ludicrously strong Kyub
 
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It is the second best scarfer in ou ( to genesect) and its versatility is matched only by the far weaker deoxys S

Could you elaborate? Why is it such a good scarfer?

Honestly, I see it's Scarf set as having lost a good deal of its touch with it's dual STAB's being much riskier to lock yourself into and priority users being so common. It's still fast and powerful, sure, but it's definitely nowhere near as good as it used to be.
 
Could you elaborate? Why is it such a good scarfer?

Honestly, I see it's Scarf set as having lost a good deal of its touch with it's dual STAB's being much riskier to lock yourself into and priority users being so common. It's still fast and powerful, sure, but it's definitely nowhere near as good as it used to be.
You're right it's not as good as it used to be but it still hits hard AF and can outspeed everything but faster scarfers of which the only one is terrakion on very rare occasions. It's dragon stab isn't as dangerous to lock into as people think because fairy's don't have as much prevalence here as we initially thought with its only major concern there is azumarill and the occasional togekiss as the other good fairies clefable and mawile don't appreciate an eq or iron head. Ground has always been dangerous to lock in to but leaving and Aegislash, Heatran, Zard X, or Terrakion alive is even more dangerous as the worst that happens from using eq with scarf chomp is a need to switch out which if you predict right you won't even need to do at all as most flyers and levitators hate dragon claw or a fire move. It also has so many other sets which is the point I am stressing here.
Its scarf set isn't getting it to S, neither is SD, or ChainChomp, but its the versatility that it has that makes it so good.
 
I feel chandelure should at least be B- it has great offensive typing (which translates into SPAM FLAMETHROWER!), a great sp.atk stat and it doubles up as a spinblocker, apart from the obvious genesect, I can't think of a better special scarfer than chandelure.
 
I feel chandelure should at least be B- it has great offensive typing (which translates into SPAM FLAMETHROWER!), a great sp.atk stat and it doubles up as a spinblocker, apart from the obvious genesect, I can't think of a better special scarfer than chandelure.
Chandy is a great pokemon, but I'm not sure it has what it needs to be above it's current ranking. It practically HAS to run scarf, it's weak to Stealth Rock, it loses to just about every spinner in the tier (Starmie has Hydro Pump, Excadrill and Donphan have Earthquake, Forretress has nothing but Forry loses to all spinblockers anyway). It's Fire attacks are strong, but that's all it really has going for it- in a tier where it has to compete with Heatran, Talonflame, Mega Charizards, and Infernape for a team slot, it doesn't really have much standing out for it.
 
Can mega tyranitar alone be bumped to A+? Seriously once this guy gets a dance in he starts shredding teams apart.

I also think garchomp and its mega should be put into A. Garchomp is far easier to handle this gen it seems to me, with a lot of Pokemon being able to get the jump on it, like char x and greninja as well as the rereleased deoxys s
 
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Chandy is a great pokemon, but I'm not sure it has what it needs to be above it's current ranking. It practically HAS to run scarf, it's weak to Stealth Rock, it loses to just about every spinner in the tier (Starmie has Hydro Pump, Excadrill and Donphan have Earthquake, Forretress has nothing but Forry loses to all spinblockers anyway). It's Fire attacks are strong, but that's all it really has going for it- in a tier where it has to compete with Heatran, Talonflame, Mega Charizards, and Infernape for a team slot, it doesn't really have much standing out for it.
it beats donphan and weakened starmie, but you have a very valid point about heatran and talonflame walling it to the high heavens, but it outspeeds and ohkos greninja and physical defensive rotom-w. Do people run that or do I fight shit opponents?
EDITT: Read the bit about the fire types wrong
 
it beats donphan and weakened starmie, but you have a very valid point about heatran and talonflame walling it to the high heavens, but it outspeeds and ohkos greninja and physical defensive rotom-w. Do people run that or do I fight shit opponents?
EDITT: Read the bit about the fire types wrong
If it's a spinblocker, it should be able to switch in to the spinners, not just kill them. Chandelure isn't switching into Hydro Pump or Earthquake any time soon. On the other hand, it's a decent scarfer by itself which is I believe why it's where it is. Also choice specs hits ridiculously hard if you don't mind being outsped by everything.
 
Chandy is a great pokemon, but I'm not sure it has what it needs to be above it's current ranking. It practically HAS to run scarf, it's weak to Stealth Rock, it loses to just about every spinner in the tier (Starmie has Hydro Pump, Excadrill and Donphan have Earthquake, Forretress has nothing but Forry loses to all spinblockers anyway). It's Fire attacks are strong, but that's all it really has going for it- in a tier where it has to compete with Heatran, Talonflame, Mega Charizards, and Infernape for a team slot, it doesn't really have much standing out for it.

I think as a special wall breaker, chandy preforms impeccably.

It doesn't NEED to run scarf (although that is a fantastic set)

Because instead of trying to compete against other sweepers it can tear apart physical walls as well as attack sub reliant Pokemon with infiltrator, which is definitely a good ability choice. Yes, flash fire is the best but infiltrator is nearly as good. You often find your self wishing for the other ability, or then praising the fact you chose it.
 
If it's a spinblocker, it should be able to switch in to the spinners, not just kill them. Chandelure isn't switching into Hydro Pump or Earthquake any time soon. On the other hand, it's a decent scarfer by itself which is I believe why it's where it is. Also choice specs hits ridiculously hard if you don't mind being outsped by everything.
But the donphan or starmie has to predict chandelure coming In or else they'd spin, if starmie surfs predicting my chandelure but I stay in, talonflame or charizard is dead. I might try specs. It sounds decent if you can bluff the scarf
 
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