sorry, I phrased myself wrong myself wrong, what I meant to say is, the point of a spinblocker is to switch into a rapid spin, block it and kill/force a switch. Why would I worry about EQ if I want to block a rapid spin.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
- Status
From what I understand, Megas usually get ranked separately from their base forms if they offer a very different style of play from their base forms, or if they outclass them entirely. Megas like Lucario, Medicham, Blastoise, Banette, Manectric, Absol.....overshadow their respective regular forms completely for the most part, while Megas such as Pinsir, Mawile, Venusaur, Charizard have become almost completely different (and far superior) beasts from their base forms altogether. It is only those whose base forms are OU viable and their Mega forms being relatable in their primary / numerous roles or do not play too differently, such as Garchomp, Gyarados, Scizor, and of course our big bad Tyranitar.
There is a difference between being outshined in one or two roles, and being completely outclassed. No doubt Mega Tyranitar does Dragon Dance better than regular Tyranitar and makes for one of the best DDers in general, but if it tries anything else then regular Tyranitar would probably be better; which we can't say the same for Lucario. At this point, Mega Tyranitar would probably be regarded as a "different variation of TTar", rather than being a totally different Pokemon, kind of like Garchomp and Mega Garchomp. Imo, both Tyranitars should probably still be ranked together.
That said, the main argument here is whether TTar deserves A+ or A. There is no denying that Tyranitar is a super dangerous swiss-army knife of a Pokemon, but 61 Base Speed and 7 weaknesses would likely affect its ranking a bit. Switching into it may still prove a tricky task (especially when you consider its attacking arsenal including a very usable Ice Beam / Fire Blast or whatever), but otherwise numerous Pokemon can land solid damage on Tyranitar. I find that it is not particularly easy to just plant down Stealth Rock and get away with enough health to spare to sufficiently damage the opponent's team (like Landorus-T can), since lack of reliable recovery and speed get in the way a lot (which also applies to Assault Vest TTar and the like). Even Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar has some issues: now it has to be a bit more cautious about switching into even resisted attacks since it cannot heal itself (unlike XZard) to not blow its potential sweep, it wants to be able to KO everything or those 7 weaknesses will come back to bite it (thankfully this is not hard to do, but don't overestimate +1 neutral nature w/o power boosting ability), and it is pretty susceptible to certain priority (thankfully it also resists notable ones) and pretty much every relevant Scarfer. It's a solid A in my eyes, but it could still make A+.
There is a difference between being outshined in one or two roles, and being completely outclassed. No doubt Mega Tyranitar does Dragon Dance better than regular Tyranitar and makes for one of the best DDers in general, but if it tries anything else then regular Tyranitar would probably be better; which we can't say the same for Lucario. At this point, Mega Tyranitar would probably be regarded as a "different variation of TTar", rather than being a totally different Pokemon, kind of like Garchomp and Mega Garchomp. Imo, both Tyranitars should probably still be ranked together.
That said, the main argument here is whether TTar deserves A+ or A. There is no denying that Tyranitar is a super dangerous swiss-army knife of a Pokemon, but 61 Base Speed and 7 weaknesses would likely affect its ranking a bit. Switching into it may still prove a tricky task (especially when you consider its attacking arsenal including a very usable Ice Beam / Fire Blast or whatever), but otherwise numerous Pokemon can land solid damage on Tyranitar. I find that it is not particularly easy to just plant down Stealth Rock and get away with enough health to spare to sufficiently damage the opponent's team (like Landorus-T can), since lack of reliable recovery and speed get in the way a lot (which also applies to Assault Vest TTar and the like). Even Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar has some issues: now it has to be a bit more cautious about switching into even resisted attacks since it cannot heal itself (unlike XZard) to not blow its potential sweep, it wants to be able to KO everything or those 7 weaknesses will come back to bite it (thankfully this is not hard to do, but don't overestimate +1 neutral nature w/o power boosting ability), and it is pretty susceptible to certain priority (thankfully it also resists notable ones) and pretty much every relevant Scarfer. It's a solid A in my eyes, but it could still make A+.
Last edited:
My view on the Mtar/ttar issue is simply mtar can't exist without ttar, whereas ttar can exist without mtar. In other words, it's a possible set(s) of said pokemon.
Also ttar is an A+ imo. He is strong, incredibly bulky, versatile, has a powerful mega ddance set, and he usually overcomes his speed issue with his sheer utility. 7 weaknesses would be worrisome if most of them break him, but the spedef set takes even Zard-y Focus Blasts, which should testify simply why his bulk beats his speed and weakness issue. He is much like Rotom-w in that he very rarely lives to the end, but both also very rarely leave the field without doing anything.
He's in B right now.
Also ttar is an A+ imo. He is strong, incredibly bulky, versatile, has a powerful mega ddance set, and he usually overcomes his speed issue with his sheer utility. 7 weaknesses would be worrisome if most of them break him, but the spedef set takes even Zard-y Focus Blasts, which should testify simply why his bulk beats his speed and weakness issue. He is much like Rotom-w in that he very rarely lives to the end, but both also very rarely leave the field without doing anything.
He's in B right now.
You would worry about EQ because if the opponent happens to use EQ or Hydro Pump instead of Rapid Spin, then you just lost your spinblocker. Chandelure can't switch in on any move except Rapid Spin, and that's a very risky game to play.
Huh. I can't actually see the Pokemon since it's currently in broken images on the com I'm using. I'll correct that.
Also, we can agree Chandelure risks a lot to spinblock, but so does Gengar, who is usually known as an offensive spinblocker. Being weak to hazards does limit Chandelure's ability to do so however, as is its reliance on Choice Scarf, but otherwise it makes an okay offensive spinblocker, obviously not on par with more dedicated / bulky spinblockers such as the Grass / Ghosts, Jellicent, and Aegislash.
Last edited:
...no. Gyarados is, and has almost always been, one of the best pokemon in OU. Both normal and Mega Gyara can pull off defensive, offesnsive, and support sets very well. Mega Gyarados is right up there with Charizard-X as one of the best DDancers in the game, trading in Char's great typing for much better bulk.
If you want it to be lowered, please provide some arguments as to why.
The thing is, Mega Evos do have different stats spread, design, abilities etc.
Plus they are the main new feature brought by 6G. We shouldn't consider them as just a detail or an option for a Pokemon. Most of the time they provide a huge boost or change of playstyle.
If Tyranitar would not deserve to be A+ without MTar existing, it should be A, while MTar should be A+ if it's A+ material. I'm not discussing whether it is or not. Just saying, it would be logical to rank them separately if Mega TTar do perform better in XY OU than regular TTar.
Also in Uber, Arceus is ranked differently depending on his plate isn't it ? Because if there can be DIFFERENT versions of a Pokemon, they should be ranked separately if they don't perform equally in the tier.
If not, it's like saying, for example, Charizard is S Rank Material even when non-mega evolved. It is obviously not. What allows Charizard to be S-Rank is its Mega-Evolutions. If it doesn't have any Charizardite attached, then it is not even viable.
It's the same thing with Rotom forms, if we should always put different versions of a pokemon together then Rotom is A+ whether it is Rotom-H, F, etc.
Plus they are the main new feature brought by 6G. We shouldn't consider them as just a detail or an option for a Pokemon. Most of the time they provide a huge boost or change of playstyle.
If Tyranitar would not deserve to be A+ without MTar existing, it should be A, while MTar should be A+ if it's A+ material. I'm not discussing whether it is or not. Just saying, it would be logical to rank them separately if Mega TTar do perform better in XY OU than regular TTar.
Also in Uber, Arceus is ranked differently depending on his plate isn't it ? Because if there can be DIFFERENT versions of a Pokemon, they should be ranked separately if they don't perform equally in the tier.
If not, it's like saying, for example, Charizard is S Rank Material even when non-mega evolved. It is obviously not. What allows Charizard to be S-Rank is its Mega-Evolutions. If it doesn't have any Charizardite attached, then it is not even viable.
It's the same thing with Rotom forms, if we should always put different versions of a pokemon together then Rotom is A+ whether it is Rotom-H, F, etc.
Mamoswine ->B+ ( or lower)
I just cant see how this guy is so high , higher than it used to be last gen
it got nothing new but only a bunch of better stealth rockers to envy and another crap load of pokemon that loses to one to one situations, this gen it took 3 major blows first the hail nerf that makes hail use in OU even more gimmick than it used to be , second is the dragon demise , fairies pretty much stole his job his precious ice shards are not as useful as the used to be, the last one is defog the suicide sash leads are a thing of bw really i just cant see any reason for people still using them , maybe the fact that most sash leads are nowhere as viable as the used to be just takes a little time to get from their heads to their teambuilder.
and i am not even getting into the pathetic LO set , it beats less than 8% of the pokemon above and A- in one to one situations.
I just cant see how this guy is so high , higher than it used to be last gen
it got nothing new but only a bunch of better stealth rockers to envy and another crap load of pokemon that loses to one to one situations, this gen it took 3 major blows first the hail nerf that makes hail use in OU even more gimmick than it used to be , second is the dragon demise , fairies pretty much stole his job his precious ice shards are not as useful as the used to be, the last one is defog the suicide sash leads are a thing of bw really i just cant see any reason for people still using them , maybe the fact that most sash leads are nowhere as viable as the used to be just takes a little time to get from their heads to their teambuilder.
and i am not even getting into the pathetic LO set , it beats less than 8% of the pokemon above and A- in one to one situations.
Once again I find myself challenging posts as opposed to making my own, but whatever.
Mamoswine is still a great pokemon this generation. It still has literally the best offensive typing in the game and the stats to back it up. Stealth Rock wasn't Mamoswine's main niche, that was just a delightful bonus. Hail was never relevant to Mamoswine, Thick Fat is better in just about every situation, and it's not like Hail was common anyway. Mamoswine does a better job of taking out Dragon types then fairies, few of the fairies can switch in, just about all of them are either slow or KO'ed by coverage/alternative STAB. Mamoswine is also slow but it's faster then most fairies and it has priority which is 4x effective on many dragons, really it does a better job of killing Garchomps and stuff then any fairy. I can't argue about the loss of suicide lead viability, but once again that was just one of Mamo's sets.
Not to mention, Mamoswine loves the rain nerf. No more super-effective Hydro Pumps everywhere! yay!
I agree with Colonial, Mamoswine is still a tremendous anti-meta pokemon and thanks to Knock Off's buff and the introduction of Freeze Dry it is no longer as mono-dimensional as it used to be.
It deserves its spot under A-rank because of its unique traits that no other pokemon has. Ground/Ice is the best dual STAB combo in the game, and even though defensively it's not great, thanks to Thick Fat it's the only ground type that resists ice, while being immune to electric and the annoying Prankster+Thunder Wave.
Its speed tier lets it outspeed the vast majority of walls and bulky offensive pokemon such as Heatran and Gyarados, there is literally nothing in the entire game that likes switching on it (its safest switch-ins, Skarmory and Rotom-W, do not enjoy Knock Off and Freeze Dry), it checks many annoying things such as Breloom, Thundurus-I, Gliscor and Klefki and it's the best Ice Shard user in the game.
There is really nothing comparable to Mamoswine and as such it fits the definition of A-rank.
It deserves its spot under A-rank because of its unique traits that no other pokemon has. Ground/Ice is the best dual STAB combo in the game, and even though defensively it's not great, thanks to Thick Fat it's the only ground type that resists ice, while being immune to electric and the annoying Prankster+Thunder Wave.
Its speed tier lets it outspeed the vast majority of walls and bulky offensive pokemon such as Heatran and Gyarados, there is literally nothing in the entire game that likes switching on it (its safest switch-ins, Skarmory and Rotom-W, do not enjoy Knock Off and Freeze Dry), it checks many annoying things such as Breloom, Thundurus-I, Gliscor and Klefki and it's the best Ice Shard user in the game.
There is really nothing comparable to Mamoswine and as such it fits the definition of A-rank.
So, everything highlighted ITP is clearly mistaken.
Since when do Stealth Rockers compete with other Stealth Rockers? If their sole niche is setting up Stealth Rock and doing nothing else, what's the point? Oh, more Pokemon were introduced that can defeat it? By that logic, every Dragon-type in existence should've dropped, they're a no-no with Fairies roaming all around. Mamoswine never even made use of hail; Snow Cloak was banned, and Thick Fat is almost infinitely superior anyway, even on hail teams to an extent. Most Fairies are slow, have low Def, or both. If anything, Fairies are inferior to Mamoswine when it comes to keeping the metagame's top threats at bay.
Sash leads are nowhere near unviable. They perform their role exactly how it should, by setting up hazards, and Mamoswine has massive offensive presence that can give it plenty of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock.
Whether Mamo defeats a majority of foes in it's viability ranking, it hardly matters when it can sufficiently execute it's respective niche. Solidly A-, in my opinion.
When was Mamo ever used with Hail? XD
The fact that Mamo can still be used an a very nice check to Thundurus, Landorus, Aegislash, MMawile, Lati@s, and even Rotom-W with Freeze-Dry is pretty awesome.
He's a very reliable SR setter for HO teams and can beat most other setters and defogers in the tier. I think he's exactly where he needs to be in the A-tier.
How many hail teams did you realistically see last gen? Hail was and still is a joke in OU. Mamo's niche nor advantage was in Hail.
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 395-468 (110.3 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 333-395 (93 - 110.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 205-244 (67.8 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
What the hell are you talking about? Please check facts before posting.
Jiggly....are you serious?
As much as I love the Fairy Type, Mamo serves as a better check to most because he's able to use LO Ice Shard while there is no Fairy priority. You really don't know what you're talking about....
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 226-268 (74.8 - 88.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 333-395 (93 - 110.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 375-444 (115.7 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 270-328 (70.6 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 411-489 (128.4 - 152.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 252-299 (84 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 330-390 (101.8 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 258-303 (60.8 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 198-234 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 468-561 (132.2 - 158.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 159-190 (47.6 - 56.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Pathetic my dragon tail.
How did the absence of Hail affect Mamo at all? Hai teams are weakened yes, but Mamo certainly isn't.
Fairies switch into Dragons better, but they do not revenge kill them better. This is pretty important when it comes down to Azumarill or Mamoswine facing, for example, a +2 Garchomp.
Deoxys-S adapted pretty well to the whole Defog business, so I don't see why Mamo cannot do the same. The main difference between Sash Mamo and most other Sash leads is that while most suicide leads aim to stack hazards and / or Screens etc. , Mamo (mainly) uses its Sash to discourage the opponent from leaving it alone to set up due to the threat of Stealth Rock followed by powerful dual STABs, or using it to beat a good number of Pokemon one on one it otherwise wouldn't have.
Also the Life Orb set helps to power up those good STABs better, and give Mamoswine the power to OHKO, say, Aegislash.
Conclusion: Few things are willing to take Mamoswine's attacks, or even stand up to them. The STAB combo is really Mamoswine's saving grace. Considering the amount of fast Ice-weak threats we have (Lati@s, Landorus, Thundurus), and how useful it can be in breaking down bulky Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Mandibuzz, and Goodra. Ice STAB is really great, and Mamoswine is one of the few Pokemon to receive STAB from it while not receiving its main downfalls (not weak to Rock and Fire).
Last edited:
Do you even have any idea what you are talking about? There are literally 7 Pokemons that resists its STAB, with only 2 relevant ones in Rotom-W and H while it hits 407 Pokemons Super Effectively with its STAB alone, undoubtedly a good STAB combination, and best in the game.
And guess what, according to http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/XY OU/473.html, usage for SR on Mamo is 53.50%, not 71% as you fluffed from somewhere, it's still high, but it makes your statement less credible than it already is, and those 53.50% that use it is because Mamoswine does indeed has the slot for the move, but not as a main niche, as you have claimed.
Minus the obvious ones, here is a good list of stuff that Mamoswine simply beats with some of its most commonly used moves.
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 374-442 (116.8 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 302-364 (84.3 - 101.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 229-273 (76.3 - 91%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 148-174 (54.4 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 299-354 (92.2 - 109.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 179-213 (55.2 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Broken Dragonite: 359-426 (110.8 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 473-562 (133.6 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 252-299 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 377-447 (100.8 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 411-489 (107.5 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 237-281 (77.9 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 205-244 (67.8 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 187-221 (61.9 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Since when does not being able to beat many top ranked Pokemon suddenly mean that your offensive typing isn't good? The fact that Mamoswine struggles against many of the A-S ranked Pokemon has a lot more to do with its weaknesses and below average speed than its offensive typing. Ice/Ground is a fantastic offensive combination, if not the best one in the game. You hit well over half of the game for super effective damage with your STABs alone (that's not an exaggeration, use this coverage calculator if you don't believe me). In more competitively relevant terms, of the top 52 Pokemon in OU (if you count Charizard's Mega forms and Venusaur/Mega Venusaur separately), Mamoswine hits 26 of them for super effective damage with just its STABs (this is also counting Pinsir due to its typing change when it Mega evolves and the fact that nobody uses regular Pinsir). If you want this in terms of top ranked Pokemon in this thread, then of the 36 Pokemon in the A-S ranks (again, I'm counting Venusaur/Mega Venusaur and the Mega Charizard forms separately because of the type effectiveness differences between them), 19 of them are hit for super effective damage. Remember, this is not just neutral coverage; this is super effective coverage between its STABs alone. As for neutral coverage, Mamoswine hits everything in the game for neutral damage besides Rotom-W/H/F, Levitate Bronzong, Shedinja, and...Surskit. Find me one other two move combination that can put up equally impressive numbers on both super effective coverage and neutral coverage.
There are a lot of things you can say about Mamoswine, but to imply that its offensive typing is bad is ridiculous.
Nominating hydreigon for B or B-
While he's gained a new x4 weakness to fairy and can't spam draco meteors as freely any more, the steel nerf has also helped him not need so much coverage any more. He used to always need to run earth power or superpower to deal with steels but now that he can just hit them with his stab, they aren't as required any more if you have other pokemon on your team who cover them.
While he does have a lot of power behind his attacks, he has no way of boosting them outside of focus energy and the mediocre work up, and he sits at an annoying 99 speed which leaves him outsped by a lot of things
He's also not as versatile as some of the other peudolegendaries but he does have a LOT of type coverage available to help make up for it
He's still completely walled by certain fairies such as azumarill though
While he's gained a new x4 weakness to fairy and can't spam draco meteors as freely any more, the steel nerf has also helped him not need so much coverage any more. He used to always need to run earth power or superpower to deal with steels but now that he can just hit them with his stab, they aren't as required any more if you have other pokemon on your team who cover them.
While he does have a lot of power behind his attacks, he has no way of boosting them outside of focus energy and the mediocre work up, and he sits at an annoying 99 speed which leaves him outsped by a lot of things
He's also not as versatile as some of the other peudolegendaries but he does have a LOT of type coverage available to help make up for it
He's still completely walled by certain fairies such as azumarill though
Others have already answered your points very well, but I'm going to reply anyway because I'm the one you were talking to.
First of all: PLEASE fix your grammar and spelling. That was very difficult to read, don't you have spellcheck or something? And stop it with the personal attacks, all you achieve with those is making yourself look immature and makes it almost impossible to take you seriously.
Anyway. To address your actual points.
Stealth Rock's commonality on Mamoswine doesn't matter, it uses SR so often for the same reason Terrakion sometimes does: No reason not to. It doesn't need anything but it's STABs and Ice Shard, so it can run whatever it likes in the extra slot- perhaps SR. The point is, there is no reason to be comparing Mamoswine to other pokemon with SR because no pokemon is just used for SR, it's always just a bonus on top of that pokemon's other qualities. Mamoswine's role isn't SR setter.
You Hail point makes no sense. Hail doesn't matter. Hail is dead, more so then all weathers. Hail immunity is completely pointless when it's immune to hail anyway, not to mention Snow Cloak was banned last gen, so trying to use it as an argument when it's a quality Mamoswine never had and barely had any use of anyway is silly.
Others have already pointed how flat-out wrong your dragon-stopping and inability to beat many A rank pokemon arguments are.
Last edited:
now your bringing prediction into this. Say my togekiss is out on your donphan. He's going to spin unless he PREDICTS
Why is thundurus T a C-rank?! And tangrowth is c- rank?! What kind of a joke is this.
Thundurus t has a huge 145 special attack stat, a varied movepool 101 speed, and agility and nasty plot. And volt absorb
All one would have to do is switch in on the oft present rotom w with volt switch, set up once, and go for a merry walk in town. Nothing will catch x2 base 101 speed and with a special attack of 145 with a boostin nature, you don't have to worry about not having enough power.
Access to focus blast, thunderbolt, dark pulse, psychic, grass knot and the ability to go mixed if you want with superpower and a base 105 attacking stat, plenty to catch special walls off guard....
Anyway. It is a slower thundurus I but more special power and a still good ability. Why is it a c rank? That's a joke. It should definitely be a b rank.
As for tangrowth, the only grass type wall that outclasses it is mega venusuar. And tangrowth does a comparable job without a mega stone. He can go full physical defense and seed and spread status or he can work as a tanky lure with a full assault vest special defense set that can beat specially defensive heatran one on one.
A very good move pool, good attacking stats, access to knock off and regenerator, and he gets... C-... No. He should at least be in b next to his pal slowbro who has a more special leaning movepool while tangrowth is a bit more physical.
Why are good mons getting crap ranks because people who don't use them look down on them because they were low tiered before?
alexwolf EDIT: Tangrowth is at C+ not C-.
Thundurus t has a huge 145 special attack stat, a varied movepool 101 speed, and agility and nasty plot. And volt absorb
All one would have to do is switch in on the oft present rotom w with volt switch, set up once, and go for a merry walk in town. Nothing will catch x2 base 101 speed and with a special attack of 145 with a boostin nature, you don't have to worry about not having enough power.
Access to focus blast, thunderbolt, dark pulse, psychic, grass knot and the ability to go mixed if you want with superpower and a base 105 attacking stat, plenty to catch special walls off guard....
Anyway. It is a slower thundurus I but more special power and a still good ability. Why is it a c rank? That's a joke. It should definitely be a b rank.
As for tangrowth, the only grass type wall that outclasses it is mega venusuar. And tangrowth does a comparable job without a mega stone. He can go full physical defense and seed and spread status or he can work as a tanky lure with a full assault vest special defense set that can beat specially defensive heatran one on one.
A very good move pool, good attacking stats, access to knock off and regenerator, and he gets... C-... No. He should at least be in b next to his pal slowbro who has a more special leaning movepool while tangrowth is a bit more physical.
Why are good mons getting crap ranks because people who don't use them look down on them because they were low tiered before?
alexwolf EDIT: Tangrowth is at C+ not C-.
Last edited by a moderator:
It is outclassed. But incarnate is in A vying right now for s rank. Therian is not so much worse that its in c rank. Again 145 special attack that can afford to run a boosting nature (unlike scarf chandelure, the only other time we see such power) and / or run nasty plot to boost it to insane levels.
It is VERY powerful. It's not a weaker version of incarnate, it's a slower but more powerful version
Chansey for A- rank. Chansey has so much hp and Sp.def that Special Attacks just barely tickle it, and with the eviolite item, it can also take unboosted physical attacks. It has so many options for support moves like wish and aromatherapy. It can also dish out an okay amount of damage with seismic toss.
I might be wrong here so take this with caution, but the way I understand the rankings C is the Rank for things that are outclassed by other things in the ranks above. To get B rank Thundorus-T would need a niche to differentiate itself.
- Status