What Item do you recommend then?
Thank you for the advice, I've been using Chandelure and I wasn't sure if there was a better member I could have beeen using
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)
- Thread starter Ace Emerald
- Start date
- Status
What Item do you recommend then?
Thank you for the advice, I've been using Chandelure and I wasn't sure if there was a better member I could have beeen using
Uh, just stick with Leftovers.
I would think that AV Empoleon would be a lot better to pair with Chesnaught. With an Assault Vest, you can keep Empoleon's offensive presence, but also let it deal with many of the special attackers that like to switch-in on Chesnaught (Mega Gard, Hydreigon, Noivern, etc.) Idk, maybe there's something that I'm missing with physical Empoleon, but I find AV to be a good enough set for it if you're looking to have some offensive presence and use it with a physical tank / wall.
Thanks you guys, I forgot about Assault Vest, so I'll use it since I have three pokemon with Leftovers already
Since putting AV would make that core have no recovery, so how about having a cleric like florges? It rounds up your core very nicely.
I haven't seen ANYONE use this (other than myself and one other person who I clearly don't remember), but Kyurem is currently an underrated threat in the UU metagame that not many teams are prepared for. Yes, it's weak to a shitton of things like stealth roaches and it needs some support, but on a pressure stalling set, once it sets up a subsitute, there's only a few things that can effectively prevent it from further PP stalling/launching moves from its base 130 attacks.
To further elaborate, Kyurem's base HP allows it to make 101 HP subsitutes with just 52 HP evs, which allows for some extra EV investment elsewhere, particularly in speed in order to outspeed a few extra pokemon it would not be able to without the investment. Kyurem's bulk is not something to underestimate, either-- for example, a Timid 252spA Raikou's shadow ball or a 0/4 spA Slowbro's Psyshock does not even guarantee the 25% damage needed to break the sub. Momentum moves, such as U-turn and Volt Switch also don't break Kyurem's subsitutes. If that wasn't enough, Kyurem even gets Roost, which will further annoy the opponent or perhaps cause him/her to click that forfeit button if he/she cannot do anything about those annoying subsitutes. Momentum moves, such as U-turn and Volt Switch also won't break Kyurem's subsitutes,
The only pokemon I've seen that were able to successfully check/counter a subbed Kyurem is (AV) Metagross, Chansey, Florges, and mega Gardevoir, as far as my knowledge goes. (I know I could be unaware of at least several other checks/counters like mega Heracross and Cinccino, but I just don't see those enough yet and I'm not going to search and list every single pokemon that are capable of doing so.) AV Metagross only takes about 40-45% damage from Earth Power and can smash it back with its steel moves, although switching into Earth Power is a waste of Metagross's valuable HP, while mega Gardevoir can just simply shit on Kyurem with its pixilated Hyper Voice and shrug off any of its moves. Chansey will not die to Kyurem's attacks, although if it stays in and tries to seismic toss away the subsitutes, it's definitely not going to get the job done due to the PP stalling. Don't even bother taunting Kyurem though; chances are, its ice beam/earth power/dragon pulse/whatever attack move is going to end up dealing a solid chunk of damage
I hope this actually convinces someone that (sub) Kyurem isn't just some useless pokemon that's sitting BELOW the Limbo-C category because almost no one even bothered to touch it in OU. As long as you don't switch it into Rocks a headbreaking amount of times or make some extremely dumbass choices with it, I don't see why Kyurem is simply something to leave out of the equation.
To further elaborate, Kyurem's base HP allows it to make 101 HP subsitutes with just 52 HP evs, which allows for some extra EV investment elsewhere, particularly in speed in order to outspeed a few extra pokemon it would not be able to without the investment. Kyurem's bulk is not something to underestimate, either-- for example, a Timid 252spA Raikou's shadow ball or a 0/4 spA Slowbro's Psyshock does not even guarantee the 25% damage needed to break the sub. Momentum moves, such as U-turn and Volt Switch also don't break Kyurem's subsitutes. If that wasn't enough, Kyurem even gets Roost, which will further annoy the opponent or perhaps cause him/her to click that forfeit button if he/she cannot do anything about those annoying subsitutes. Momentum moves, such as U-turn and Volt Switch also won't break Kyurem's subsitutes,
The only pokemon I've seen that were able to successfully check/counter a subbed Kyurem is (AV) Metagross, Chansey, Florges, and mega Gardevoir, as far as my knowledge goes. (I know I could be unaware of at least several other checks/counters like mega Heracross and Cinccino, but I just don't see those enough yet and I'm not going to search and list every single pokemon that are capable of doing so.) AV Metagross only takes about 40-45% damage from Earth Power and can smash it back with its steel moves, although switching into Earth Power is a waste of Metagross's valuable HP, while mega Gardevoir can just simply shit on Kyurem with its pixilated Hyper Voice and shrug off any of its moves. Chansey will not die to Kyurem's attacks, although if it stays in and tries to seismic toss away the subsitutes, it's definitely not going to get the job done due to the PP stalling. Don't even bother taunting Kyurem though; chances are, its ice beam/earth power/dragon pulse/whatever attack move is going to end up dealing a solid chunk of damage
I hope this actually convinces someone that (sub) Kyurem isn't just some useless pokemon that's sitting BELOW the Limbo-C category because almost no one even bothered to touch it in OU. As long as you don't switch it into Rocks a headbreaking amount of times or make some extremely dumbass choices with it, I don't see why Kyurem is simply something to leave out of the equation.
Florges is actually one of the other pokemon on my team with Leftovers
You forgot crobat/noivern/chalandure as checks. In case you forgot, their ability, infril-whatever has been buffed so that it can hit through subs. Not to mention hyper vioce/boomburst/bug buzz also go through subs too.
Maybe the reason kyurem never got to shine in UU is because the sheer amount of good dragon type(haxorous, hydriegon, latias, zygarde, flygon, kingdra) are facing competition with it as latias almost completely outclasses it. And the only niche it had last gen was the ability to perform well in hail which is nerfed this gen.
Infiltrator and sound-based moves are things I have most definitely acknowledged with Kyurem (I don't know why I never mentioned it in the first place), so it's up to me to make the best move possible in that situation. Regarding Crobat though, it is not really a check because with max attack, its brave bird still does not 2hko w/leftover recovery and Kyurem can just simply roost the damage away or simply Ice Beam it to oblivion if it decides to BB.
Regarding Latias, I don't think it outclasses Kyurem with regards to the substitute set. Latias cannot make 101 HP substitutes like Kyurem can (for the 100 damage moves), and it does not have the ability to effectively PP stall because it does not have Pressure.
Kyurem isn't outclassed by Latias. Kyurem's defensive typing isn't half bad consider it hard stops most offensive water and electric types on their track while setting up a sub on their face. This is really the main draw of using Kyurem. It's power is also unparalleled for every special attacking dragon, giving it a solid reason to be used. It is really underrated right now (seriously? RU Kyurem?).
However, there are reasons that Kyurem isn't used. Keldeo being the most used offensive water type hurts it the most since it loses its role as water check. Latias, (Mega-)Gardevoir, Haxorus and many others are metagame defining threata that can outspeed and hit it really hard if not outright OHKO it. Lacking a good electric move also hurts as it cannot effectively hurt bulkier ones like its brother Kyube. It usually ends up into stall war (favourable for Kyurem though) if the opponent doesn't switch. Overall, Kyurem is good, but not particularly effective in UU.
However, there are reasons that Kyurem isn't used. Keldeo being the most used offensive water type hurts it the most since it loses its role as water check. Latias, (Mega-)Gardevoir, Haxorus and many others are metagame defining threata that can outspeed and hit it really hard if not outright OHKO it. Lacking a good electric move also hurts as it cannot effectively hurt bulkier ones like its brother Kyube. It usually ends up into stall war (favourable for Kyurem though) if the opponent doesn't switch. Overall, Kyurem is good, but not particularly effective in UU.
Who do you think could fall from ou this month? I'm highly hoping foretress, starmie would fall, although trevenent, klefki, sableye has a good chance too. If sableye and klefki comes down, maybe stall could be revived, they can cripple lots of strong attackers, and set up entry hazards or screens. While sableye can't set up hazards it will be the best counter to mega medicham. The presence of starmie will make blastoise a hard time to keep its place as they are one of the better offensive spinners while foretress will be deoxys-d 0.2. Any other pokemon that might fall to UU?
I don't think that Starmie dropping to UU would make it hard for Mega Blastoise to maintain as an offensive spinner. Starmie is frail as shit, is hard countered by AV Metagross (PURSUIT) and has a hard time dealing with Cofagrigus; all of which are threats or issues Mega Blastoise handles well. Starmie is a much better spinner for HO teams or offensive teams that need/want to use their mega slot for something else like Gard, Manectric, or Medicham but still need the spin support. Mega Blastoise fits better on more balanced or bulky offense teams that like its ability to take some hits while spinning.
lolplsforryjustdropalready
no seriously he doesn't even do anything in OU other than lose every form of momentum for the guy using it. @_@ forry dropping would also give a great option as a spinner: it's also a pretty good roserade counter with overcoat blocking sleep powder and resists her STABs (well... just wait until people start running technician hp fire lol)
im really hoping klefki doesn't drop. probably the most annoying shit ever
starmie dropping would be interesting: iinw it'd mark the first ever time starmie is legal in UU. (starmie has already dropped to UU over at PO, but PO raised their cutoffs so lol) starmie would give some competition to megastoise as an offensive spinner, but what really distinguishes it is mostly starmie's access to recover to heal off damage, while blastoise gets mega launcher dark pulse to get rid of ghosts: something that starmie greatly lacks (well, you can pack the appropriate coverage moves to get rid of the spinblockers individually, IB for gourgeist, scald for chandelure and tbolt for jelly, but it's still more convenient when you only need one answer to everything)
thundurus and salamence dropping would be very interesting too. thundurus possesses prankster twave to slow down a lot of offensive pokemon, as well as strong offensive power in the form of nasty plot. definitely a threat to watch out for. mence is a secondary option for dragons, beating out both haxorus and hydreigon.
tree isn't going to drop anytime soon: his usage in january sits at a rather solid 5.38%.
(bisharp pls dont come back down)
no seriously he doesn't even do anything in OU other than lose every form of momentum for the guy using it. @_@ forry dropping would also give a great option as a spinner: it's also a pretty good roserade counter with overcoat blocking sleep powder and resists her STABs (well... just wait until people start running technician hp fire lol)
im really hoping klefki doesn't drop. probably the most annoying shit ever
starmie dropping would be interesting: iinw it'd mark the first ever time starmie is legal in UU. (starmie has already dropped to UU over at PO, but PO raised their cutoffs so lol) starmie would give some competition to megastoise as an offensive spinner, but what really distinguishes it is mostly starmie's access to recover to heal off damage, while blastoise gets mega launcher dark pulse to get rid of ghosts: something that starmie greatly lacks (well, you can pack the appropriate coverage moves to get rid of the spinblockers individually, IB for gourgeist, scald for chandelure and tbolt for jelly, but it's still more convenient when you only need one answer to everything)
thundurus and salamence dropping would be very interesting too. thundurus possesses prankster twave to slow down a lot of offensive pokemon, as well as strong offensive power in the form of nasty plot. definitely a threat to watch out for. mence is a secondary option for dragons, beating out both haxorus and hydreigon.
tree isn't going to drop anytime soon: his usage in january sits at a rather solid 5.38%.
(bisharp pls dont come back down)
if klefki drops i might just have to go back to playing 5th gen uu, in all seriousness, i would really like to see how mence would go in uu with florges etc on most teams, while also facing a ton of competition form hydreigon, zygarde, latios kingdra (sort of) and lol, noivern. also does salamence get knock off? not that it wouold make it a better pokemon, i sort of want to revive that debate cos it was in more circles and more pointless than most suspect threads debates
salamence doesn't have knock off
also what's notable is that salamence has issues getting past fairy types: unlike haxorus it doesn't have a convenient poison jab to laugh in florges's face. EQ isn't exactly really threatening, having a 47% chance of a 2hko with SR and leftovers factored in.
salamence's niche lies in his 100 speed so with a scarf he's capable of revenge killing haxorus, hydreigon, latias and +1 zygarde without much problems.
also what's notable is that salamence has issues getting past fairy types: unlike haxorus it doesn't have a convenient poison jab to laugh in florges's face. EQ isn't exactly really threatening, having a 47% chance of a 2hko with SR and leftovers factored in.
salamence's niche lies in his 100 speed so with a scarf he's capable of revenge killing haxorus, hydreigon, latias and +1 zygarde without much problems.
AV Machamp with DynamicPunch, Knock Off, Stone Edge and Bullet Punch is really good imo, as is anything with knock off though. CB Haxrous wrecks everything, how do you counter this thing?
The new UU needs fairies to support all of those new threats ,other than gardevoir there are not many viable fairies out there.
Sadly no, there are only about 2 and half/half fairies that people have been using in UU. Gardevoir, Florges, Half Granbull, Half Whimiscott. The nice part about the former two though is that they are really good in this metagame.
I've been using DD Haxorus lately- almost nothing can take it on. does solid damage to Aggron, KO's Florges after rocks at +1 w/ LO (or just at +2 if you run SD), and can KO stuff like Keldeo with Dragon Claw if you can't Outrage.
It seems to be working well alongside CB Entei- beats Steels and Fairies, covers weaknesses, and ES can deal with scarfers/prio users.
It seems to be working well alongside CB Entei- beats Steels and Fairies, covers weaknesses, and ES can deal with scarfers/prio users.
there's a pretty decent chance that we're going to see it next month. it doesn't really do anything in OU right now unlike dragonite, latios and goodra, and honestly speaking kyub is a much better dragon for mixed sweeping than salamence.
if i pray that OU players are stupid enough, thundurus could be the next to come down too. bringing that priority twave everywhere... it'll be quite the foe to face!
in exchange, most of the guys at the top of the 'UU' side of the cutoff are not likely to rise up back into OU, or they're on the verge of getting the banhammer. scolipede, terrakion and landorus already did, and gardevoirite could see the boot too. latias isn't very likely to rise up for the time being with big bro latios still around, and neither is blastoise really going to (though i cant say for certain, but if he does rise we can finally have a period where all 3 RBY starters are OU!). if blastoise does go though, it'd be a pretty big hit, as UU will lose one of their best spinners. sure, you can probably get starmie, forry and tenta down, but none of them will ever be able to beat ghosts as easily as blastoise.
the notion of anything beyond the 2 eeveelutions of vaporeon and jolteon (and those two themselves) rising back up is pretty absurd, unless there's a gigantic metagame shift or something.
although, realistically speaking, next month's additions are probably going to be just salamence and thundurus: bisharp is not going down very soon (and if he does that shit better get banned), forretress, tentacruel, starmie and donphan (can i just call them the spinnin' rangers now) aren't too close to the cutoff, except maybe forretress.
lol people please stop using donphan in OU let him drop and he'll fit in just fine
In reference to the earlier discussion about Rapid Spinners, I was thinking if Lucarionite gets banned in OU, then people will start using different Mega Pokemon to replace it, and that could potentially lead to Blastoise rising to OU.
I think Mega Pinsir and Charizard will take all the new usage in that particular power grab. Lucario is used because it's the best offensive mega, mostly offensive players use it. When Luke goes they won't use a defensive mega, they'll try to replace Luke with another offensive one. Blastoise is a defensive/tank mega. They aren't competing with each other for a slot, they have very different roles. I think a more apt scenario would be a theoretical M-Scizor or M-Venusaur ban, as those are Blastoise's real competition.
- Status