Well... you don't ALWAYS have five other pokes. But otherwise yeah. If a poke with that kind of set up is your last guy, and you have to go for double protect... then you are pretty much screwed, and can probably give up. I mean, there's always the chance that you can get hax and make a comeback, but still.
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Pokémon Sylveon
- Thread starter cartercr
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I wanted to post in here to confirm that a moveset of hyper voice, heal bell, wish and baton pass is technically illegal:
- hyper voice and heal bell are both 5th gen tutor moves, so the eevee would have to be transferred
- wish is an egg move, while baton pass is a level-up move for eevee (but not sylveon)
- eevee requires a fairy move to level up once and evolve (all of the above are normal moves)
- once evolved, it has no way of relearning any of the 4 moves (egg moves are not re-learnable for transferred mons)
So there you have it. Either settle for moonblast over hyper voice, or ditch one of the other moves. (I personally opted for protect over baton pass, as it was the most similar choice).
- hyper voice and heal bell are both 5th gen tutor moves, so the eevee would have to be transferred
- wish is an egg move, while baton pass is a level-up move for eevee (but not sylveon)
- eevee requires a fairy move to level up once and evolve (all of the above are normal moves)
- once evolved, it has no way of relearning any of the 4 moves (egg moves are not re-learnable for transferred mons)
So there you have it. Either settle for moonblast over hyper voice, or ditch one of the other moves. (I personally opted for protect over baton pass, as it was the most similar choice).
With the release of Pokebank, Pixilate Sylveon with Wish, Heal Bell and Hyper Voice is legal now. I'm still in two minds about running her over Florges as my special wall though.
this has already been said numerous times in numerous threads, including this one, but sylveon 100% outclasses florges as a wall. their stat spreads are very similar and they pretty much wall the same shit, but sylveon passes bigger wishes and has a much better stab move (pixilate hyper voice > moonblast).
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Why would you even want Baton Pass with a moveset as such?
You can use it to bring in an ally in need of Wish recovery, and not worry about the switch being predicted (you can go to a different one if they switch).
You could slow pass wishes with it, that is if Sylveon didn't hate high powered attacks. It's an interesting idea that doesn't pan out in practice.
I love using Sylveon as my cleric, it's so freakin good at its job. The wishes may not necessarily be gigantic, but having pixilate hyper voice and dragon immunity just really sells it for me. I especially like how hyper voice goes through substitute- it prevents the plethora of subbosters and sub irritants like gliscor from using sylveon as set up bait. Too bad it's still weak against klefki, but you can't have everything.
In this generation, you can relearn egg moves. My friend just made his Eevee forget Wish and then used a Water Stone on it and, upon checking with the Move Relearner, Vaporeon could learn Wish again.
I see... says the once blind man. Seems like you could probably be doing something more worthwhile with the fourth slot though, rather than predicting predictions. But I've never really been good at using clerics in the first place, so I really wouldn't know.
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that only applies to pokes hatched in kalos. I can personally verify that my eevee transferred from 5th gen (and likely every other transferred mon) cannot relearn egg moves
Seems like it's trying to be Umbreon, who would run Wish, Heal Bell, Baton Pass and Foul Play. Unless you don't mind the power drop in a switch from Hyper Voice to Moonblast, you'd likely be better off just using Umbreon. He's got a better physical defense stat to work with as well.
I am in the process of EV training my Shiny Sylveon (nicknamed Belldandy) that I just transfered over from pokebank(as an eevee of course)
Calm Belldandy (Pixilate) Leftovers
31/x/27/31/31/28
Heal Bell
Hyper voice
Wish
Shadow Ball
I am not sure on the EV spread. I want to make her bot a Spc Wall and also a decent Spc Attacker. I maxed the HP EV's to get the most powerful wishes, but still not sure on SpA and SpD. Should I go full SpD and rest SpA, or 158 SpD and 100 SpA? That seems to give me(according to a calc) 281 SpA and 368 SpD, which sounds decently strong and a strong Wall... max SpD gives me 394 SpD but leavs me with 251 SpA...
EDIT: Or go with more SpA EVs then SpD? 156 SpA and 100 SpD gives me 295 and 353 Respectively.
EDIT2: After a lot of calculations, I think the 156 SpA and 100 SpD is the best. I tested it against a Modest 252 Adapability Mega Lucario Flash canon, and she is still 2HKO by uit at 100 EV's and 252 EV's. 100 should mean she will survive plenty of attacks.
Calm Belldandy (Pixilate) Leftovers
31/x/27/31/31/28
Heal Bell
Hyper voice
Wish
Shadow Ball
I am not sure on the EV spread. I want to make her bot a Spc Wall and also a decent Spc Attacker. I maxed the HP EV's to get the most powerful wishes, but still not sure on SpA and SpD. Should I go full SpD and rest SpA, or 158 SpD and 100 SpA? That seems to give me(according to a calc) 281 SpA and 368 SpD, which sounds decently strong and a strong Wall... max SpD gives me 394 SpD but leavs me with 251 SpA...
EDIT: Or go with more SpA EVs then SpD? 156 SpA and 100 SpD gives me 295 and 353 Respectively.
EDIT2: After a lot of calculations, I think the 156 SpA and 100 SpD is the best. I tested it against a Modest 252 Adapability Mega Lucario Flash canon, and she is still 2HKO by uit at 100 EV's and 252 EV's. 100 should mean she will survive plenty of attacks.
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I've been thinking, Echoed Voice might just be viable on Sylveon as it has the advantage of allowing you to 'set up' against certain special wall, effectively forcing them to switch. Anyone have any experience of using it?
Losing her best asset in Pixi Hyper Voice is a big cost to pay though. Echoed voice does does do more overall if you can stay I to use it three turns, by the fith you do 45% to blissey.
Losing her best asset in Pixi Hyper Voice is a big cost to pay though. Echoed voice does does do more overall if you can stay I to use it three turns, by the fith you do 45% to blissey.
Echoed Voice with Metronome wrecks far more shit than simple old Hyper Voice (at least from my experience), even if they switch into a 'mon that resists it. If you can get a simple two Echoes across, Sylveon's already becoming a dangerous ass sweeper.
It generally needs Iron Defense and Speed support from Scolipede to function properly, however.
Echoed Voice is honestly a terrible gimmick. It requires several turns of setup only for you to get forced out by a resist anyway. And if your opponent happens to flinch you? You start from step one.
No.
How often is flinch even used lol? Togekiss and Jirachi (or Dunsparce) and only Togekiss really does it a ton, but it could be walling or clericing or setting up, flinching is not a reason to not run it. It hits 80 BP after two hits, which is the difference between Scald and Surf, while it is actually just two BP different after Metronome, which makes it 88 BP. Here are just very similar calculations:
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 213-252 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 208-246 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I think it is a tad gimmicky, as switching or anything just resets it, but after two you get a 144 BP move.
Echoed Voice is only useful if you plan on using Sylveon on a full Baton Pass chain. When Sylveon gets enough boosts, it is very easy to start spamming Echoed Voice until it actually starts to pay off. Bypassing Unaware Clefable that lack Calm Mind is nice too. A set with Echoed Voice / Calm Mind / Baton Pass / (Sub / Wish) is what Sylveon should be using on a full Baton Pass team.
So, maybe Curse Sylveon can be actually useable now?
I know, it has only 65 base attack, but Pixelate kinda makes up for the lack of attack. Now it can use Heal Bell+Wish to go with Curse, so it's still going to support the team if needed (and it's still a special wall). And Fairy is actually great for a mono attack.
Paring with Dugtrio to get rid of some steels and some poison pokes too maybe?
I know, it has only 65 base attack, but Pixelate kinda makes up for the lack of attack. Now it can use Heal Bell+Wish to go with Curse, so it's still going to support the team if needed (and it's still a special wall). And Fairy is actually great for a mono attack.
Paring with Dugtrio to get rid of some steels and some poison pokes too maybe?
With an extremely limited amount of common weaknesses for Weakness Policy to come in, and the need for so much Baton Pass support, this is only viable as a regular bulky Calm Mind user with Leftovers. Remember! Don't just slap Weakness Policy on just any Pokemon you see fit.
People have been trying for a LONG while now to make that thing work, actually. Its actual viability is questionable, however, as Hyper Voice provides immediate power and some utility against Substitute spammers.
I see. I read through the thread and no one mentioned Wish+Heal Bell+Curse (so it could retain it's work as a special wall and cleric without many losses besides power) because of the pre-Pokebank restrictions, that's why i brought this up.
Glad you put this in the right place, and welcome to Smogon :)
Sylveon is very specially oriented, with great special attack and defense. However, its physical bulk is dreadful. It's weak to Steel and Poison, and poison is usually special. So, a physically defensive pokemon that resists steel an ideal candidate for a second member of a Sylveon offensive/defensive core. There are many choices, but my favorites are:
Heatran
Scizor
Mega-Scizor
Slowbro
Rotom-W (I hate it, but it seems ideal for your situation)
and
Mega-Manectric
Of course, the right choice depends on the rest of your team, as some physical attackers can get past, say, Heatran and Sylveon, like Excadrill.
Hope I could help!
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