Couldn't RestTalk Lax be good enough for OU :/.
Also, Hipno's tear list is awesome. I think if it was tested out too see how it would work.
Also, Hipno's tear list is awesome. I think if it was tested out too see how it would work.
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D/P tiers. (READ 1st and 2nd POST)
- Thread starter Surgo
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The problem with Resttalk Snorlax is that there's only place left for 2 moves. One STAB, and one other attack (EQ, Crunch, Selfdestruct and some other moves), depending on the second move it will be walled by a type. Like Return/BSlam + EQ is walled by any levitating ghost. Return/BSlam + Crunch is walled by every steel that hasn't psychic as its second type. Lax really deserved Slack Of..
EDIT: Hipno, you named Dragonite, Salamence and the like, but you forgot Garchomp. Chomp is IMO in every aspect better than Nite, except in special attacking and Dragon Dance.
EDIT: Hipno, you named Dragonite, Salamence and the like, but you forgot Garchomp. Chomp is IMO in every aspect better than Nite, except in special attacking and Dragon Dance.
I agree yet disagree with Hipno at the same time. I love the fact I can actually play Pokemon instead of "Jumpmence Draco Meteor and Garchomp Outrage fun fun game!", but alienating a huge number of Metagame threats, which I, myself, haven't seen too often, seems wrong. Hell, you don't even have Blissey on there!
Also, just because Raikou, Suicune, Zapdos, and Azelf are better then their respective cousins doesn't mean they're unbeatable. They still have a number of counters in OU.
Also, just because Raikou, Suicune, Zapdos, and Azelf are better then their respective cousins doesn't mean they're unbeatable. They still have a number of counters in OU.
I agree with Strangerdanger and that these will need revision after competitor. imo, Raikou in anything but OU is just ridiculous, and the reason that he is there now is that its nearly impossible to find a good one. However, after Competitor, I feel the useage of many of the legendaries will increase.
Well, I'd like to say that I think Blissey is being obscenely overrated at this point. The metagame is young, and people are using blissey because it is obvious and easy.. I think over time its useage will drop a great deal.
Also Snorlax I think will find its way into OU. Possibly as a sleep talker with Eq and Pursuit support.. It just has too good stats and movepool to be anything but standard.
Have a nice day.
Also Snorlax I think will find its way into OU. Possibly as a sleep talker with Eq and Pursuit support.. It just has too good stats and movepool to be anything but standard.
Have a nice day.
In my opinion, I really can't get myself to like Hipno's tier list. It just seems to go over what was necessary. Unless we changed the criteria for which a Pokemon is sent to Ubers? Shaymin doesn't break OU, hell, it doesn't even break BL. Suicune has lost a whole lot of stalling power, with the advent of more powerful moves/Pokemon. There is one choice, however, that I do agree with, and that is Salamence. Specsmence alone forces you to have 2 Special Walls in your team.
You know, I think we might need to add a new tier as a bridge between OUs and Ubers. Just a suggestion, but it works. The proof is in the BL.
Hipno, I noticed you neglected Garchomp on your Tier list. Why? He is pretty much superior to Dragonite in everyway and can easily OHKO him, Salamence, or any other dragon with Outrage.
And i agree with Chaos, Specmences is just flat out ugh.
And i agree with Chaos, Specmences is just flat out ugh.
Its unlikely that Blissey usage will decrease much if at all. Its the only counter to the majority of Special Attackers out there and it doesnt take much EV investment to do so. Imo its usage will most likely increase when people realise this.
Snorlax is a good special wall but overshadowed by Blissey this gen in terms of just defending and it needs massive EV investment to be able to not get 2HKOed by alot of Special Attackers. It'll most likely remain in OU due to its incredible stats
Snorlax is a good special wall but overshadowed by Blissey this gen in terms of just defending and it needs massive EV investment to be able to not get 2HKOed by alot of Special Attackers. It'll most likely remain in OU due to its incredible stats
I think you are underestimating Shaymin. Seed Flare is just an incredible move. 120 base power and 100% special lowering - it is probably the best special attack in pokemon.. [edit] -whoops ihcati is right, only 40% special lowering. But still.. That is a damn good move..
Add to that the fact it can remove one of its counters with GrassWhistle and that Stealth Rock hits the majority of Grass Resists SE. Chuck on HP fire and a fourth move (natural cure rest combo maybe?) and you have an extremely dangerous pokemon.. Especially considering I banned most of the Dragons..
Have a nice day.
Add to that the fact it can remove one of its counters with GrassWhistle and that Stealth Rock hits the majority of Grass Resists SE. Chuck on HP fire and a fourth move (natural cure rest combo maybe?) and you have an extremely dangerous pokemon.. Especially considering I banned most of the Dragons..
Have a nice day.
I have an idea for a tier system that I think bridges the gap between the traditional way and what Hipmonlee is suggesting. I'll post a thread on it later, but I think in THIS thread we should stick to classifying Pokemon in the traditional sense. Alternative tier systems, including the one I am going to propose, deserve another topic for discussion.
I was actually starting to make a topic right now, but hey, you're the boss... literally.
Interestingly, 17 out of the 33 OUs are from D/P. I'd put Gallade in OU; I've seen loads of them in the RMT forums, and Surgo himself said in his metagame analysis that Gallade was seeing a lot of use over WiFi.
Gallade can be an excellent support/sweeper pokemon. It gets 3 status condition moves ( Will o Wisp, Thunder Wave, And Hypnosis ) If it can burn, paralyse, or put some pokemon to sleep, that makes up for its terrible speed and allows it to sweep.
Sage, out of curiousity, how many of those new OUs are evolved forms of old BLs/UUs?
I would like to discuss manaphy. Why is it considered uber? I mean jirachi has better typing and a much better move pool. Manaphy's true potential cant even be used unless it IS used in ubers. Rest + hydration + focus sash= one hell of a time killing that thing in ubers. So I am not really having a good understanding why manaphy is uber. It cannot be just because of tail glow.
I'm very suprised not to see Shedinja in OU. Although it can be quite easily disposed of by a fair few Pokemon it is really useful for the endgame and poses a threat to teams that rely on Choice Items.
Also Drifblim, as the best SubPasser with an easily available speed boost which is also passed, should be at least BL.
If Tyranitar is to be uber then surely Blissey should go up too and by ommiting Wynaut from both lists do you mean that he has now fallen to UU?
Also Drifblim, as the best SubPasser with an easily available speed boost which is also passed, should be at least BL.
If Tyranitar is to be uber then surely Blissey should go up too and by ommiting Wynaut from both lists do you mean that he has now fallen to UU?
I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that Manaphy gets access to what is, basically, an instant, 100% recovery move. So it can Tail Glow three times, Rest, then sweep. It makes it so, if someone's packing Manaphy, and if made legal, most people will, I need a Sunny Day user or a Sandstreamer.
I'm thinking Manaphy became Uber becase of it's insane movepool. It's a very small one, but a great one. TG is amazing, especially because it outspeeds A LOT with that 328(Timid) Speed. The the enemy has to face +2 STAB Surfs, while the stuff that resists it faces a +2 Ice Beam or Energy Ball. I haven't tried Sub Manaphy yet, but that seems extremely potent. Meh, I never really saw it's uberness because I have two Manaphy counters on my team, but I guess it really is Uber. Mew has every fucking move out there with 100 Base Stats in every stat, yet Manaphy may have 10 moves in all that are decent yet they are capable of fucking teams over with a single Tail Glow. I don't see Manaphy doing too well in Ubers, but that isn't what tier-ing is about.
Tyranitar I'm really confused on. It really has two counters, Hippowdon, and good prediction. Gliscord sometimes can't really counter it, considering how much CBCrunch hurts, especially with the 20% -1 defense effect.
Celebi is OU, really. It did get some great moves, but they aren't enough to make it some uber pokemon. I personally think it's gotten worse in comparison to last gen.
Shedinja wasnt even OU in Adv with the addition of Stealth Rock and more Sanstream teams what chance does it have to be OU now?
As for Driftblim not being BL you can se the BL list isnt really listed it just is showing pokemon that some think are OU but ca realy be place in a BL tier
Why Tyranitar becomes Uber if it does has nothing to do with Blissey. Without Blissey there would be nothing to stop Special Sweepers this gen. Blissey will never leave OU
My only objection is making Celebi an uber, and here is why;
Too many weakness to common types in ubers. The uber metagame is loaded with nuclear SpA Ice Beams/Shadow Balls/(dark move). It would be far to weak to take that kind of punnishment.
T-Tar as an Uber is questionable. It is going to work there nailing the Psychic Type Dominated, Weak defense pokemon with a STAB crunch. The negatives of putting him there are Groudon/Kyogre. T-Tar wont take like STAB SE Earthquakes. Even More So, despite Sand Stream defense boost, it cant take Water Spouts.
Too many weakness to common types in ubers. The uber metagame is loaded with nuclear SpA Ice Beams/Shadow Balls/(dark move). It would be far to weak to take that kind of punnishment.
T-Tar as an Uber is questionable. It is going to work there nailing the Psychic Type Dominated, Weak defense pokemon with a STAB crunch. The negatives of putting him there are Groudon/Kyogre. T-Tar wont take like STAB SE Earthquakes. Even More So, despite Sand Stream defense boost, it cant take Water Spouts.
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