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SwagPlay, evaluating potential bans (basic definition of "uncompetitive" in OP)
- Thread starter haunter
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You missed my point, they don't need T-Wave at that point, they're free to spam Air Slash / Iron Head.
It has a Niche. The metagame shouldn't be controlled by bans because people dislike something. The metagame has to be flexible and allow people to experiment to find counters... counters that exist! Nothing is uncounterable.
Also, running a Lum Berry on a Pokemon to gain the Swag Boost and then using it to KO would be an effective strategy. Something like Trevenent w/ Harvest and Lum Berry could do this countless times.
You're right. Lickilicky is the only pokemon that can learn Own Tempo, my post was completely unreasonable. I can't believe myself. I think I'm just going to have a sit down and reflect on my actiludicolo purugly AVALUGG lilligant SMEARGLE slowbro/slowking
It's a 25% (1/4) chance that you can't move when paralyzed (that means you have a 75% chance of do moving), and 50% (1/2) chance for confusion.
Equation: (3/4) x (1/2) = 0.375
Your Pokemon will get to attack 37.5%, when having these conditions.
Edit: The math might be off but the picture is clear
You're taking potential hazard damage, and assuming that your opponent doesn't have 6 SwagPlayers he could just bring in a spin blocker/defiant user.
How about we ban all secondary effects? It's HAX
How about we ban togekiss and jirachi?
How about we ban all pokemon?
How about we censor opinions of people who don't think swaggerplay should be banned?
How about we ban togekiss and jirachi?
How about we ban all pokemon?
How about we censor opinions of people who don't think swaggerplay should be banned?
Confusion is complete bullshit. It's OK as occasional hax with hurricane or water pulse, since in that case it's not "intentional", beside fishing for it. But swagger... that's just disgusting. I'm in favor of banning swagger/confuse ray/whatever that induces 100% confusion. To quote Seevea:
Conclusion: Ban confusion inducing-moves
Conclusion: Ban confusion inducing-moves
The only Own Tempo user that's viable in OU is Slowbro and Regenerator is a massively more useful ability that it shouldn't have to lose just to beat this bullshit. Please, please stop with the random NU/RU Pokes, this shit comes up in every fucking suspect thread and it's never a good argument.
You know what else has a lot of counters? This thing called Kyogre.
Mega-Absol takes a lot more damage unless it is a gimmiky bulky spread
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Absol: 86-102 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Xatu: 130-154 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xatu: 96-114 (28.7 - 34.1%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Espeon: 94-112 (28.1 - 33.5%) -- 95.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
In my opinion swagger should be banned. Just the move itself. While it is assumed that most battles will be decided by luck in one way or the other (i.e. Focus Blast hitting, Scald burning etc.) swagplay is completely based on luck. Pokemon battles should be decided by a combination of primarily skill and strategy with a little luck. Swagger battles are 100% luck and as such i think the move should be banned.
Every uber Poke has a counter somewhere. This is a bad argument, if "a counter exists so it's not overpowered" were a reason to keep something from being banned then we would have no bans in the whole game.
I didn't agree with a complex ban when it was suggested in Gen V, and I don't agree with the idea now. Complex bans shouldn't and do not need to be considered. Rather than playing the accusation game and trying to decide what to ban based on what the 'culprit' is to the Swagger + Foul Play strategy, just make the simplest ban that makes the most sense and helps the community rather than trying to be politically correct about shit.
If you're going to opt for a ban, ban Swagger. If the strategy continues with Confuse Ray and Flatter, like others suggest it might (which has no basis since we're not in a situation where people are forced to try) then we come back to this and see if those moves need to be banned too.
It's not like the meta improves from having Swagger around by trying to salvage it.
If you're going to opt for a ban, ban Swagger. If the strategy continues with Confuse Ray and Flatter, like others suggest it might (which has no basis since we're not in a situation where people are forced to try) then we come back to this and see if those moves need to be banned too.
It's not like the meta improves from having Swagger around by trying to salvage it.
So what you're saying is that if something is not viable in OU, it should be locked?
And if they don't start switching, then you're just gonna have to sit yourself down and wait for the 144 turn ride to take its course. It's easy to shrug this off until you find yourself having to do it 5 times a day. Seriously, "just switch 144 times!" should never be given as a serious solution to a problem in this game.
An ability to given pretty much exclusively given to Pokémon that are unviable or Pokémon with far better abilities like Regenerator.
I never said "ban everything luck based" so that's not a problem. A small degree of luck is what we have all come to expect playing Pokémon and removing the game's luck based elements would change the game beyond recognition. SwagPlay is a "strategy" built solely around the abusing game's most egregious luck based elements for the sake of annoying an opponent, the extent to which it is luck based is incomparable in scale to things like the ability Super Luck.
none should , but keeping it there is the greater good , cant you see its cancer , its called cancer for a reason , you cant beat it you can just contain it , maybe down there people find a way to deal with it who knows , people will make adaptations to play around it , either way i don't want to see this happening in OU , something like rotom-W over 30%, usage yes one big reason people use rotom is this deal, not only talon ! and people always miss that.
every inch of my existence tried to stop this from happening , i even got infracted by raseri trying to stop that, and now look where are we at , suspecting moves like swagger and status like confusion that never got suspected in the past and make up a good portion of what we know as pokemon battling
you ignore the power of tagging something , and how much a list of pokemon like the one in the viability ranking thread or the ban list effects the perception of the people
random guy A sees klefki in the usable ou mons in the ps teambuilder , he might think to use it , some other read a bunch of smogoners bashing of a new player in the viability ranking about how that x RU pokemon cant be any higher than -D ranking the random guy surely wont use that pokemon as confidently as he used to , prime example is the cheer amount of pokemon that saw their usage stats to dramatically change just because their tags (tier name/ viability rank ) changed !
its a weird argument thats for sure , its not bad though
Except this is a valid strategy, and not a bad idea to be carry a lum berry, something that can cure or bounce back status, or use mirror coat. To be honest I feel like people here are really afraid of trying new things.
I've never had a problem with prankster users and swagger. If anything I find T-wave more bothersome, but I'm not about to cry about banning that.
There are good counters in OU, stop bringing up stuff like Own Tempo. I keep mentioning Rotom-W, so here's a sample:
+2 4 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 49-58 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rotom-W can sit around and take Foul Plays all day, and it's the number one thing in OU right now.
+2 4 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 49-58 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rotom-W can sit around and take Foul Plays all day, and it's the number one thing in OU right now.
I don't know what you mean by "locked", but if something requires random niche stuff to be beaten, it's broken.
You've been visited by the Smogon of no fun allowed! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you post "Thanks Smogon" in this thread.
In all honesty, I don't think a strategy should be banned just because it's luck-based. This is a game of luck. If you ban this you might as well just ban anything using moves that have an X% chance of doing something.
In all honesty, I don't think a strategy should be banned just because it's luck-based. This is a game of luck. If you ban this you might as well just ban anything using moves that have an X% chance of doing something.
Not to be mean, but are you retarded?
Lilligant + quiverdance, sleep powder, and petal dance is good. Very good considering Its a stab grass boosted outrage with no confusion because of own tempo.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-79638218
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-66302544
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-66325912
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-66485059
I use swagger spam as my main silly laddering team when I'm bored and I can guarantee you this would be gone with a swagger ban. The main difference is that swagger puts a lot of things on a timer (pretty much anything that is not a physical wall or Chansey), something confuse ray and flatter will never do.
Unless you're running a whole team of flying types that have a secondary type that resists rock or levitators not weak to rocks then you are able to take spikes damage.
Salt the Flesh I'm pretty sure it was just Assist-i-cat (a.k.a Roar + Assist) that was banned. (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/liepard-suspect-discussion-read-post-202.3489103/page-12)
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