Diggersby in fact has Swords Dance, not Agility; +2 Earthquake wrecks Forre. Deoxys is a SUICIDE lead, it either dies or switch out.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Donphan
- Thread starter Milkshook
- Start date
- Status
Assuming a good pokemon being overlook is okay, but assuming an overused pokemon being completely overstated basically means that you assume some >3% of teams being idiots and you are the only genius, especially when Donphan possesses zero shiny properties that may call for users to use it just because they like it.
It is a lot more difficult to overstate a pokemon than to understate it, as you never know about something that you never use, but for those who does use it, it is a lot easier to tell if it is strong, for as long as you keep on modifying you team, you will eventually get rid of the liabilities of your team.
Also, stop talking about rapid spin should only be used when you are using spikes, it is a very over-generalized statement and has been disproved millions of times with solid arguments.
For Manaphy i guess its stuff like Azumarill and Keldeo, yes azu is physical but both of them are bulky watertyp sweepers. Scolipede isnt realy overshadowed by anything because of its niche in having speed boost, the reason here is probably the common priority everywhere especialy Talonflame making those speed boosts far less useful not to mention that its mediocre at best outside of speed boost. Landorus-I competes with its Therian form, yes they serve different roles but nobody is going to use both on one team 4x Ice weakness is not something u want to have many times on a team. Dont know about Tornadus-T but obviously there is also something limiting its usage.
Having SR and Rapidspin might not be "impressive" but its rare, with only Excadrill, Donphan and Forretress having both and Excadrill having the defenses of a wet paper bag its obvious where the ppl go when they want hazard support with some bulk. Smeargle might also get sticky web but aside from that it has nothing in common with Galvantula not to mention its obvious flaws and the fact that a suicide lead is far from optimal in the current meta.
You are completely missing the point. Forretress can die too. Skarm still walls diggersby. Even gengar walls its double dance set and with swords dance only, it is beyond easy to check with just about any fighting type able to survive quick attack or any ghost able to outspeed. Deoxys defense is not a very good momentum grabbing lead and you know it. Stop trying to justify mediocre sweepers to prove me wrong. Deoxys d is and only ever will be a bulky anti lead capable of easily setting up hazards.
I've just realized something: Without Rapid Spin, Donphan would be outclassed by Piloswine.
Piloswine has better Defense:
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 135-160 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- 80.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine: 120-144 (29.7 - 35.6%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO
Piloswine has better Special Defense:
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 252-296 (62.3 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 372-440 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
And Piloswine has a more powerful Ice Shard:
0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 144-172 (44.4 - 53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 184-220 (56.7 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
They both have Stealth Rock, Stone Edge and Earthquake. So the reason Donphan is OU and Piloswine was NU was because Donphan has Knock Off, Rapid Spin and a slightly more powerful Earthquake. Amazing.
I am not saying that Piloswine is a good Pokemon, but I am saying that Donphan is a bad Pokemon with a good move.
Piloswine has better Defense:
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 135-160 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- 80.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Thick Fat Piloswine: 120-144 (29.7 - 35.6%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO
Piloswine has better Special Defense:
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 252-296 (62.3 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 372-440 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
And Piloswine has a more powerful Ice Shard:
0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 144-172 (44.4 - 53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 184-220 (56.7 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
They both have Stealth Rock, Stone Edge and Earthquake. So the reason Donphan is OU and Piloswine was NU was because Donphan has Knock Off, Rapid Spin and a slightly more powerful Earthquake. Amazing.
I am not saying that Piloswine is a good Pokemon, but I am saying that Donphan is a bad Pokemon with a good move.
And without tailglow, Manaphy would be a slightly better Phione. What's your point? Donphan has a better movepool and a better defensive typing to go along with sturdy and leftover recovery. Donphan is a spinner and Piloswine is not. Half of the spinners in OU would likely be RU or lower without rapid spin. The only spinner that might have stayed OU is Excadrill which is why it is considered to be the best spinner in OU and why defog is a more popular alternative in the current metagame.
I may have found a new set to use on donphan. Rock polish sweeper. In the past this was considered more or less a joke, and to be honest, it's still ridiculously gimmicky. However, with weakness policy it becomes somewhat usable.
Donphan @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Flail
- Earthquake
- Knock Off/fire fang/endeavor/stone edge/ice shard
- Rock Polish
Flail is used because of the sturdy abuse of this set. At one HP, Flail is effectively 200 BP. With sturdy, Donphan is able to take any hit at full health and live. Because of this, Donphan is able to take super effective hits and survive in order to obtain a weakness policy and rock polish boost. After a rock polish a jolly max speed donphan reaches 436 speed after a rock polish. For reference, this is only 2 points of speed below base 150 speed pokemon running max speed and a beneficial nature. And outspeeds base 80 speed scarfers like chadelure. At +2, donphan is able to OHKO physically defensive rotom-w at full health 56.3% of the time and 100% of the time with rocks or adament nature! Earthquake and flail are basically mandatory for Donphan to carve a niche out for itself as a sweeper, but the third slot is a pick your poison coverage move. Donphan is likely going to be walled by something, so endeavor is the probably the best choice as a last ditch effort against pokes like skarmory, but ice shard does allow Donphan to KO weakened priority users and knock off allows Donphan to beat threats like gengar more easily. Fire fang isn't really too useful, but it can be used to kamikaze kill ferrothorn and put a large dent in skarmory. Stone edge allows donphan to hit most flying types for decent damage, but this only really helps for Mandibuzz and a few OU oddities like Staraptor and flail deals with these things just as well if you are lucky enough to be brought down to sturdy. For this set to work correctly, you really need priority and rocks off of the field. Its a really gimmicky set as its somewhat difficult to pull off, but it can be effective late game sweeper that your opponent likely won't plan for and an interesting lure to take out things like rotom w late game to setup another Pokemon to sweep. Again this is not the greatest set, but can be an interesting late game sweeper.
Donphan isn't bad persay it's decent in ou I guess but it's outclassed by every hazard remover in ou! Let it be known that the only reason donphan is ou is because all the noobs make a team and the team builder with a bunch of random ou pokes they see donphan and jus think hmm that seems like a great pokemon I think I'll fuck with smogon and use it lol. But that's just my 2 cents
I made an almost identical Golem set in the past which is better because it has more weaknesses and Stronger priority. However, both of them are gimmicky but can still work if their gimmick/intention doesnt work out so well. Nice ewdea though.
This applies to most of the pokemon in OU but they are there for their niche (galvantula o.o) Donohan's niche is rapid spin. And knock off spam and better coverage.
It's still OU. Donphan's getting an OU analysis for the same reason; policy oversight. However, considering that we have Banette, Vivillon, and even Gogoat threads that haven't been locked, I can say that the requirements aren't too much to get a discussion.
Last edited:
Infernape's write-up got rejected but then was rescinded because you have to have a write-up for every OU pokemon. I'd assume these discussion threads are the same, with much more leniency. Both Donphan and Infernape are viable OU pokemon. They just are bottom-of-the-barrel OU pokemon that almost disappear higher up on the ladder.
Why not use Hippowdon? Because Hippowdon doesn'0t have Rapid Spin in his movepool.
The 1760 Stats show that Donphan is not that bad. Compared it to Joltreon who has 3% on the normal ladder and 1,5% in the top ladder. Or even Cloyster, which is actually OU. Having more usage than Manaphy is ridiculous.
Why people are using Rapid Spin and Donphan with it? Because Rapid Spin 1) doesn't give Bisharp at automatic +2 boost; 2) it's inmune to Taunt because it's an attack (that's why it's spinblocked) and 3) doesn't throw ypour hazards away.
If you aren't using a hazard setter at all, Defog is better (except for Taunt and Bisharp). But there are teams that have entry hazards and they requires a Rapid Spin users. And Donphan is not the worst user but not the best user:
-Excadriull has forced to use an Air Balloon, has an underwhelming 88 base speed (for attack), has a case of 4MSS (you have to chose between Earthquake (Mandatory)/Rock Slide/Rapid Spin/Iron Head/Stealth Rock/Swords Dance) and it¡s rather frail on both sides.
-`Starmie is fast for a spinner, but has the same bulk of Excadrill (more or less) with less resistances and 5 weakness, many of them are rather common. The good thing is Recover. Also has a serious case of 4MSS when spinning.
-Forretress has no offensive pressure outside Gyro Ball which is unreliable and has a lot of resist. Also, 4MSS on it.
-Mega Blastoise is definitely better than Donphan? Problem: The problem that require hazard removal support in OU are mainly MCharizard-Y, MPinsir, Talonflame, Volcarona and Dragonite. Two fot hem are incompatible with MBlastoise.
The 1760 Stats show that Donphan is not that bad. Compared it to Joltreon who has 3% on the normal ladder and 1,5% in the top ladder. Or even Cloyster, which is actually OU. Having more usage than Manaphy is ridiculous.
Why people are using Rapid Spin and Donphan with it? Because Rapid Spin 1) doesn't give Bisharp at automatic +2 boost; 2) it's inmune to Taunt because it's an attack (that's why it's spinblocked) and 3) doesn't throw ypour hazards away.
If you aren't using a hazard setter at all, Defog is better (except for Taunt and Bisharp). But there are teams that have entry hazards and they requires a Rapid Spin users. And Donphan is not the worst user but not the best user:
-Excadriull has forced to use an Air Balloon, has an underwhelming 88 base speed (for attack), has a case of 4MSS (you have to chose between Earthquake (Mandatory)/Rock Slide/Rapid Spin/Iron Head/Stealth Rock/Swords Dance) and it¡s rather frail on both sides.
-`Starmie is fast for a spinner, but has the same bulk of Excadrill (more or less) with less resistances and 5 weakness, many of them are rather common. The good thing is Recover. Also has a serious case of 4MSS when spinning.
-Forretress has no offensive pressure outside Gyro Ball which is unreliable and has a lot of resist. Also, 4MSS on it.
-Mega Blastoise is definitely better than Donphan? Problem: The problem that require hazard removal support in OU are mainly MCharizard-Y, MPinsir, Talonflame, Volcarona and Dragonite. Two fot hem are incompatible with MBlastoise.
forced to use an air balloon? wat
it can also run leftovers just for general recovery, and does often.
it can also run assault vest for some really nice special bulk which is cool considering its plentiful resists.
it can also run scarf and having scarfspin is standard on its scarf set because a fast spin if you need it before dying + bringing in mega pinsir to clean up or something is cool.
oh yeah and sand rush too i guess.
those're just the standard sets, too. you might be able to think of some other neat trick.
it's not that donphan is terrible in and of itself or anything, it's just that excadrill is generally better in the sense that it is more versatile, has a cooler typing in addition to more of an offensive presence, higher speed to deal with more threats [most notably rotom-wash], and its abilities are generally better as well due to being at full health and being a spinner being somewhat difficult to pull off due to the nature of the job.
sorry for going off on just exca itself but there is a reason it's typically considered better when the two are compared.
that said it's not as though donphan's completely eclipsed, because that defence stat is pretty cool and i guess if you have too many fighting weaknesses or something you might not want a steel type so you don't augment it, and you want to use rapid spin over defog because you have a non-durable sr setter/use spikes or sticky web/you just don't like defog [i can totally understand the latter], then it could deserve a spot.
or maybe you just want an elephant-a-mus for christmas. i won't judge.
it can also run leftovers just for general recovery, and does often.
it can also run assault vest for some really nice special bulk which is cool considering its plentiful resists.
it can also run scarf and having scarfspin is standard on its scarf set because a fast spin if you need it before dying + bringing in mega pinsir to clean up or something is cool.
oh yeah and sand rush too i guess.
those're just the standard sets, too. you might be able to think of some other neat trick.
it's not that donphan is terrible in and of itself or anything, it's just that excadrill is generally better in the sense that it is more versatile, has a cooler typing in addition to more of an offensive presence, higher speed to deal with more threats [most notably rotom-wash], and its abilities are generally better as well due to being at full health and being a spinner being somewhat difficult to pull off due to the nature of the job.
sorry for going off on just exca itself but there is a reason it's typically considered better when the two are compared.
that said it's not as though donphan's completely eclipsed, because that defence stat is pretty cool and i guess if you have too many fighting weaknesses or something you might not want a steel type so you don't augment it, and you want to use rapid spin over defog because you have a non-durable sr setter/use spikes or sticky web/you just don't like defog [i can totally understand the latter], then it could deserve a spot.
or maybe you just want an elephant-a-mus for christmas. i won't judge.
Just wanted to let you know that Donphan and Cloyster would not be OU if the 1760 stats were used for tiering (which if you'll check Policy Review may actually happen soon) - Volcarona at #49 is last with 3.43% usage, then Donphan comes in at 3.24%. Cloyster is even lower. Neither of these Pokemon are really OU worthy.
I disagree. While Donphan clearly doesn't deserve its OU placement, Cloyster is still a unique set up sweeper with many tricks up its sleeve that other sweepers wish they had. They're not even in the same league, really.
Guys,just a bone for pro donphan users to chew on, usage =/= viability.
Donphan is a solid pokemon. He is not great and not bad.
He fills alot of roles and is pretty versatile, that's its main strength. It is tanky and has sturdy so is gauranteed to get steal rocks off. It can clear hazards, has a nice electric immunity, a nice STAB move, and knock off or priority ice shard.
He is good depending on the team. Everytime I put him on a team I am unhappy about it, because I know there are 'better' pokemon out there. After a few games I am always happy to have him though as he does so much. One of the best support pokes in OU.
In a sense, usage = viability because good people should be using what's good in the meta. If it's not viable, it won't be used much and vice-versa. Our tiers are fucked up as of late though so I see your point.
Honestly, I think the only reason Donphan was OU last gen is because, aside from SR and Spin rolled into one, he was a decent Dragon check with Ice Shard. That niche is now gone with the decline of Dragons and now he faces competition from Excadrill, which is in my opinion better with his decent speed, passable bulk, and offensive presence.
Last edited:
And as pointed out, Donphan would not be considered OU if only 1700+ stats are considered.
Yeah, that was I was trying to say, because if the 1760 stats are used the real viable stuff are actually the ones being used. The problem is there are people who insist using some weird stuff on the ladder which causes some shit. Edited that sentence sorry.
Last edited:
Woo donphans now uu! Rejoice people rejoice!
- Status