Pokémon Donphan

[SHUCKLE MAN]

It's still above the OU threshold:

| 44 | Donphan | 4.48757% | 216158 | 4.239% | 182043 | 4.504% |

The tiers are now based on only players with a ranking of 1760 or higher.

There was talk about using a lower ranking like 1630, but those stats still had Donphan, etc. in OU, so they decided to raise the rating even more so that those Pokemon wouldn't be in OU. You can see the discussion here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...m-using-1760-stats-for-tiering.3501370/page-2

 

[Albacore]

I've tried out AV Donphan, and although it's infuriatingly slow, it's still a pretty decent Mega-Manectric counter, only taking 42% from HP Ice and 45% form Overheat. It can than KO with a combination of Earthquake and Ice Shard, even after Intimidate. Otherwise, it's a pretty decent UU Pokemon.

I'd add Head Smash in the list of usable moves on the AV set since it can bring Cloyster down to its sash after a Defense drop if it tries to set up (and then finish it off with Ice Shard)

 

[Baharoth]

The tiers are now based on only players with a ranking of 1760 or higher.

There was talk about using a lower ranking like 1630, but those stats still had Donphan, etc. in OU, so they decided to raise the rating even more so that those Pokemon wouldn't be in OU. You can see the discussion here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...m-using-1760-stats-for-tiering.3501370/page-2

From what i read in the topic its not decided yet, though it probably will. Is there an official announcement somewhere that i have missed?

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

From what i read in the topic its not decided yet, though it probably will. Is there an official announcement somewhere that i have missed?

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT:

We have a new OU list, courtesy of an updated way of determining tiers (the cutoff for the weighted stats is now 1760, read all about it in Policy Review).

Here is the link to the new list.

Therefore,

RIP Zapdos / Keldeo / Chansey / Kyurem-B / Deoxys-D / Terrakion / Manaphy / Deoxys-S / Landorus / Latias (unbolded ones were BL, which means less retests later!)

Hello, Donphan / Klefki / Starmie / Smeargle / Tentacruel / Sableye / Cloyster / Forretress / Galvantula / Salamence / Trevenant

The Council will discuss the final wave of bans over PM for the next week or so. Expect the tier to go official by the 20th at the latest.

That is all.

 

[Aquaslash]

I REALLY don't get all this fuss over Donphan. I really really don't. If people are finding ways to use him and make him work, even in places where he shouldn't, then what's the goddamn problem? People in these threads have been acting like "the holy OU" is being defiled by Donphan making the usage cut. It seems like this new cutoff what done with the express purpose of removing Donphan from OU. It's really looking like these tiers aren't based on usage, but more of what the extreme elite players like to use.

Please don't take this as a troll or anything. I seriously just don't get it. :/

 

[Idyll]

I REALLY don't get all this fuss over Donphan. I really really don't. If people are finding ways to use him and make him work, even in places where he shouldn't, then what's the goddamn problem? People in these threads have been acting like "the holy OU" is being defiled by Donphan making the usage cut. It seems like this new cutoff what done with the express purpose of removing Donphan from OU. It's really looking like these tiers aren't based on usage, but more of what the extreme elite players like to use.

Please don't take this as a troll or anything. I seriously just don't get it. :/

It's just a worse Excadrill, as they can do the same things but Exca do them better plus Exca has actual offensive presence and decent speed to boot. The only thing Donphan has over Exca is priority Ice Shard for checking dragons, but that niche is long gone with their decline.

There's nothing else really.

 

[Baharoth]

I REALLY don't get all this fuss over Donphan. I really really don't. If people are finding ways to use him and make him work, even in places where he shouldn't, then what's the goddamn problem? People in these threads have been acting like "the holy OU" is being defiled by Donphan making the usage cut. It seems like this new cutoff what done with the express purpose of removing Donphan from OU. It's really looking like these tiers aren't based on usage, but more of what the extreme elite players like to use.

Please don't take this as a troll or anything. I seriously just don't get it. :/

Its a bit of both, the usage decides what is OU but the tiering council decides what usage statistics are used for that and obviously they hate Donphan more than anything else, I dont know if u saw the "QC rejections" in the Donphan analysis... it was pathetic, they acted like they finally managed to kill their worst enemy. The biggest joke however is that, after all that trouble to manipulate the usage to a point where Donphan falls out of OU, in the latest 1760 usage charts from February he is back to OU again, so its most likely just a matter of time till he gets back to OU, then they will restrict the usage to SPL and so on.

It's just a worse Excadrill, as they can do the same things but Exca do them better plus Exca has actual offensive presence and decent speed to boot. The only thing Donphan has over Exca is priority Ice Shard for checking dragons, but that niche is long gone with their decline.

Thats not true, there are many things in the usage charts that are somewhat outclassed by something else, but nothing else is hated even half as much as Donphan is.

 

[Idyll]

Thats not true, there are many things in the usage charts that are somewhat outclassed by something else, but nothing else is hated even half as much as Donphan is.

Yes, there things that are outclassed by others that have their merits, but Exca TOTALLY outclasses Donphan in almost every aspect. They can both spin, but the fact is Exca isn't totally dead weight after spinning since it has actual offenses to boast about while Donphan just sits there waiting to be hit before doing anything. Another is that Exca is more versatile as opposed to Donphan being more one-dimensional, meaning you can't really expect what Exca will bring to the table (Sand Rush, Scarf, Bulky Spin, SD(lol), other sets with Spin in it) while Donphan you can easily have the same answer all the time. And lastly, Exca has Steel-typing, and we all know what Steel brings: anti-fairy, tons of resists, etc.

Also there's Mold Breaker for Exca which is totally better than Sturdy meaning it can shit Rotom-W e.e

It's not that Donphan is bad, it's just there's Exca who does (all) things better that makes it look bad so we call it bad (lol).

 

[Baharoth]

Chansey outclasses Blissey just as much and its analysis wasnt rejected. Even if i were to agree that Donphan is bad, the kind of threatment he gets is totally different from other bad stuff out there.

 

[Colonial]

Yes, there things that are outclassed by others that have their merits, but Exca TOTALLY outclasses Donphan in almost every aspect. They can both spin, but the fact is Exca isn't totally dead weight after spinning since it has actual offenses to boast about while Donphan just sits there waiting to be hit before doing anything. Another is that Exca is more versatile as opposed to Donphan being more one-dimensional, meaning you can't really expect what Exca will bring to the table (Sand Rush, Scarf, Bulky Spin, SD(lol), other sets with Spin in it) while Donphan you can easily have the same answer all the time. And lastly, Exca has Steel-typing, and we all know what Steel brings: anti-fairy, tons of resists, etc.

Also there's Mold Breaker for Exca which is totally better than Sturdy meaning it can shit Rotom-W e.e

It's not that Donphan is bad, it's just there's Exca who does (all) things better that makes it look bad so we call it bad (lol).

I would like to point out that Excadrill does not, in fact, make a very good bulky rapid spinner. Steel type or not it still has 60/65 base defenses, compared to Donphan's base 120 Defense. So, Donphan can spin on many physical attackers, which Exca can not do. Sure Donphan isn't an amazing pokemon but I do feel that the hate is a bit excessive, to the point where people are denying that it has any positives, which is simply not true.

 

[Idyll]

I would like to point out that Excadrill does not, in fact, make a very good bulky rapid spinner. Steel type or not it still has 60/65 base defenses, compared to Donphan's base 120 Defense. So, Donphan can spin on many physical attackers, which Exca can not do. Sure Donphan isn't an amazing pokemon but I do feel that the hate is a bit excessive, to the point where people are denying that it has any positives, which is simply not true.

Yeah, I believe the hate is too much, but I'm not one of those people so don't tell me that; I'm just pointing the most obvious facts here. Also, yes, I know bulky spin is kinda iffy since it's downplaying Exca a bit, and Donphan is better in that regard (bulk), but almost Exca can do everything better than Donphan (faster spins, offense, yada). Donphan is just too niche compared to Exca in today's meta.

Also, Exca and Donphan can run AV, so they kinda patch their SpDef a bit, so there's that.

I don't hate, and it's good that he's dropping to UU since there he isn't totally outclassed by anything.

 

[Mr James Grey]

I would like to point out that Excadrill does not, in fact, make a very good bulky rapid spinner. Steel type or not it still has 60/65 base defenses, compared to Donphan's base 120 Defense. So, Donphan can spin on many physical attackers, which Exca can not do. Sure Donphan isn't an amazing pokemon but I do feel that the hate is a bit excessive, to the point where people are denying that it has any positives, which is simply not true.

Wrong. Excadrill has about as much HP as Garchomp, which is insanely high. Investment into his defensive stats are all he needs to perform the bulky spinner role.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

I see why people think Donphan is bad, but the hatred is so big it seems personal. Smogon hating Donphan is almost a meme at this point. It's funny.

 

[Colonial]

Wrong. Excadrill has about as much HP as Garchomp, which is insanely high. Investment into his defensive stats are all he needs to perform the bulky spinner role.

110 HP vs. 90 HP. With such miserable defensive stats that HP won't do much. Specially Defensively, they are about the same. Physical? It's no contest. Donphan can invest too.

 

[HAKR]

Honestly i dont find steel in combination with ground to be that good of an defensive typing. It is weak to water, fire, ground, fighting which is all very common attacking types and Donphan has better defenses. Im not saying that Donphan is better than Excadrill, but they perform different roles.

 

[Pyritie]

Honestly i dont find steel in combination with ground to be that good of an defensive typing. It is weak to water, fire, ground, fighting which is all very common attacking types and Donphan has better defenses. Im not saying that Donphan is better than Excadrill, but they perform different roles.

it might have a few more weaknesses but steel/ground has a LOT more resistances than pure ground does, giving you more opportunities to switch in

 

[Baharoth]

it might have a few more weaknesses but steel/ground has a LOT more resistances than pure ground does, giving you more opportunities to switch in

Flying, dragon, steel, bug, psychic and psn. Thats hardly 2 relevant resists coming at the cost of 3 very relevant weaknesses in form of fire, fighting and ground. Not to mention that every pokemon using flying or dragon attacks has coverage moves to ohko Excadrill. The psn immunity is nice but since Donphan resists psn it matters mostly against toxic.

 

[Aquaslash]

I will say that the biggest problem I had with trying to place Excadrill on any team are his Fire and Ground weaknesses, fire moreso than ground. It was just bad synergy all around.

 

[Retro64]

Its a bit of both, the usage decides what is OU but the tiering council decides what usage statistics are used for that and obviously they hate Donphan more than anything else, I dont know if u saw the "QC rejections" in the Donphan analysis... it was pathetic, they acted like they finally managed to kill their worst enemy. The biggest joke however is that, after all that trouble to manipulate the usage to a point where Donphan falls out of OU, in the latest 1760 usage charts from February he is back to OU again, so its most likely just a matter of time till he gets back to OU, then they will restrict the usage to SPL and so on.

It's like the OU tiering council is the WWE Authority and Donphan is Daniel Bryan. It's hilarious.

Donphan is a decent Pokemon. Yes, he's out classed but other Pokemon with OU analyses are. While Excadrill does outclass him it's not as extreme as people make it out to be. Donphan actually has an easier time switching in with Excadrill be weak to ground, fighting, fire. Donphan does have better bulk too.

 

[Pyritie]

Flying, dragon, steel, bug, psychic and psn. Thats hardly 2 relevant resists coming at the cost of 3 very relevant weaknesses in form of fire, fighting and ground. Not to mention that every pokemon using flying or dragon attacks has coverage moves to ohko Excadrill. The psn immunity is nice but since Donphan resists psn it matters mostly against toxic.

You also gain a neutrality to ice and grass and a double resistance to rock.
Also you forgot the resistance to fairy.

And it's not like you're no longer allowed to use donphan in OU any more. Use him all you want!
But at least now he can also be used in a tier that previously lacked any good spinners, and instead of scraping along the bottom of the OU barrel, donphan can now be appreciated in a different, more fitting tier, instead of constantly shat on for being OU.

 

[Baharoth]

And given his defenses the only ice attack he can switch into without losing 50-70% hp is Donphans Ice Shard... the fairy resistance is nice though forgot about that.

I dont realy care that he drops to UU, id even agree that he is better suited for UU than OU. What goes on my nerves is that undeserved bashing and hating he gets from all sides including the tiering council. Even if hes outclassed, even if he doesnt belong into OU the treatment he gets here is just plain stupid. I mean the new usage list wasnt out for a day when his analysis got 4!! QC rejections with comments like "finally that shitty trash is gone". Calling that immature would be an understatement.

 

[Arcticblast]

Honestly, Excadrill's resistances make it much better at spinning against some particularly significant physical threats than Donphan...

252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 166-196 (45.8 - 54.1%)
252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 189-223 (49.2 - 58%)

And as for the "people are making it work in OU" argument: -Tsunami- once achieved suspect reqs with Mightyena and I got Drifblim to work in OU once. That doesn't make Mightyena or Drifblim OU worthy. The truth is that in the highest levels of play, Donphan is utterly useless. We want our tiers to be an accurate representation of the metagame at its most competitive, and the usage stats before this move simply did not represent the metagame properly (due in part to a huge number of players who play on a far less competitive level).

 

[Albacore]

I honestly think this thread should be moved to the UU forum. Donphan works perfectly fine in that tier. But it's pretty much useless in OU.

 

[Baharoth]

Honestly, Excadrill's resistances make it much better at spinning against some particularly significant physical threats than Donphan...

252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 166-196 (45.8 - 54.1%)
252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 189-223 (49.2 - 58%)

And now make those calcs with Firepunch and Earthquake as well to give that argument some meaning.

 

[Albacore]

And now make those calcs with Firepunch and Earthquake as well to give that argument some meaning.

Fire Punch isn't exactly a common move. Also, Excadrill very often carries Air Balloon, so EQ isn't guaranteed to touch it at all.