Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[Sergeant Spooky]

Okay let's go down these one by one
Have no idea what Crumbler is (Speciaily based?) so no comment (Besides maybe that neither of his STABS hit for SE damage on Aegislash)
EdgeQuake? Who the hell uses that besides Ttar? (Also, Hawlucha is immune from EQ and takes normal from Edge.)
Ferrothorn is a WALL, not a BULKY ATTACKER like Chesty. Most Ferro sets are based more around support and usually have an attacking move so they don't become taunt bait.
Most grass types have Synthesis. Ferro is mainly Steel IIRC (Steel/Grass, not the other way) dumb reasoning? Maybe.
Spiky Shield.... Is kinda meh. It's Rocky Helmet without taking a hit. Sounds good in theory, but Kings Shield cripples your opponent more and allows for better mindgames.
Roar? In OU? Unless you're going for the "spam Roar Until hazards kill everything" strat (Roar has MINUS priority IIRC) it ain't gonna fly. Chestnaught also cannot utilise Taunt like Klefki and Thundurus I who can cripple hazard setters first turn.
Oh, and you forgot the QUAD WEAKNESS TO TALONFLAME AND MPINSIR. Breloom can at least use a Sash and lure TFlame/MPinsir and kill them with Rock Tomb. What does Chesty have, Rollout?
Believe me, Chesty IS good. He was my Kalos starter, but competitively, he's just not suited for the priority infested OU meta :/
TL:DR: Chestnaught has a niche in OU at best, and while Ferrothorn MAY move up, it's for the right reasons (He's been OU since BW, nothing's gonna change that)

Wow. Okay. I swear this is a troll post but:

Crumbler is a mixed wall breaker set on Aegislash. While Chesnaught loses to any that have Flash Cannon or HP Ice, and loses to SubToxic (complete stalemate if you get a sub up yourself, e.g. if you're running subseed) it completely walls absolutely every other set, being immune to Shadow Ball and taking little from any of Aegis' psychical attacks. Chesnaught can only 3HKO at best with Earthquake, which is why I usually run it with Subseed.

Uh, Garchomp does, for one. Lando-T, too. Excadrill also. It's not that common anymore, but resisting it is a good thing. And Hawlucha is not tanking fuck, ever.

Chesnaught can be used as a wall, I don't get why you're thinking it has to be a bulky attacker. It can also lay down spikes.

Point is that Ferrothorn doesn't have Synthesis.

Spiky Shield is a straight upgrade over Protect, I don't get what you're saying here. Only Aegislash has King's Shield, and it's weak to Erfquake which ignores its attack drop. KS also doesn't stop status moves.

What the fuck is wrong with Roar?

And Ferrothorn is QUAD WEAK TO CHARIZARD, HEATRAN OH AND ALSO TALONFLAME. I know Chesnaught doesn't beat those but Ferro has its own quad weakness. Sash Breloom is garbage and doesn't work if hazards are up, it'll only work if you're leading with it and then it's pretty obviously sash. And Chesnaught has Stone Edge, you can look this shit up on Google you know.

"he's just not suited for the priority infested OU meta" what the hell does that even mean.
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 120-143 (31.5 - 37.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Holy shit look at that. Chesnaught isn't weak to any other forms of priority except TFlame's Brave Bird, and yeah that'll do him in but it wouldn't matter if it wasn't a priority move because Chesnaught is slow. Like Ferrothorn.

Chesnaught and Ferrothorn are super similar, and ultimately I think Ferrothorn is more useful with better overall bulk and less weaknesses, but Chesnaught has enough over Ferrothorn (Synthesis, Spiky Shield, better coverage options, Roar, walls most Aegislash) for it to be not outclassed. For all the things Chesnaught is capable of beating, I just think B- is a joke.

 

[Ajwf]

I'd support Chesnaught moving up. He beats Mega Gyarados, Mega Tyranitar, Conkeldurr, Aegislash, Bisharp, Terrakion, excadrill and the magical crawdaunt whom we wasted byte space talking about. He does kinda need to run dual attacks for Aegi (Hammer arm and EQ) but EQ does provide ways for some grounded electrics to get beat (mainly Jolteon tbh... does keep things out like Manectric/Raikou). His ability takes away sludge bomb, shadow ball, Gyro Ball, Aura Sphere, Focus Blast and some other lesser-seen moves like energy ball and bullet seed. I don't see why he can't move up, he is THE premier aegi counter at the moment, outspeeding, seeding and EQ'ing, making Aegi largely useless in his face. Plus, Stall needs some good Bisharp switches... Quagsire, Mandibuzz and Chesnaught are three of the only ones that can consistently be relied upon.

 

[Niftyyyy]

Okay let's go down these one by one
Have no idea what Crumbler is (Speciaily based?) so no comment (Besides maybe that neither of his STABS hit for SE damage on Aegislash)
EdgeQuake? Who the hell uses that besides Ttar? (Also, Hawlucha is immune from EQ and takes normal from Edge.)
Ferrothorn is a WALL, not a BULKY ATTACKER like Chesty. Most Ferro sets are based more around support and usually have an attacking move so they don't become taunt bait.
Most grass types have Synthesis. Ferro is mainly Steel IIRC (Steel/Grass, not the other way) dumb reasoning? Maybe.
Spiky Shield.... Is kinda meh. It's Rocky Helmet without taking a hit. Sounds good in theory, but Kings Shield cripples your opponent more and allows for better mindgames.
Roar? In OU? Unless you're going for the "spam Roar Until hazards kill everything" strat (Roar has MINUS priority IIRC) it ain't gonna fly. Chestnaught also cannot utilise Taunt like Klefki and Thundurus I who can cripple hazard setters first turn.
Oh, and you forgot the QUAD WEAKNESS TO TALONFLAME AND MPINSIR. Breloom can at least use a Sash and lure TFlame/MPinsir and kill them with Rock Tomb. What does Chesty have, Rollout?
Believe me, Chesty IS good. He was my Kalos starter, but competitively, he's just not suited for the priority infested OU meta :/
TL:DR: Chestnaught has a niche in OU at best, and while Ferrothorn MAY move up, it's for the right reasons (He's been OU since BW, nothing's gonna change that)

Wow! You really should read more before you get about spouting your uninformed opinion as though its fact! I would also like to point out to you that Klefki does not get taunt.

 

[Mood4food77]

I have something crazy to announce:

Mega Blastoise for B+ Rank

Yes, that's right folks, I'm suggesting we move the tortoise up a rank. Oh, and it's not because of it's spinning capabilities either. In fact, I think it's much, much more effective to run an all out attacking set with him with Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Dark Pulse/Aura Sphere. Outside of the pink blobs, Azumarill, Sylveon, and Clefable, there is nothing that wants to switch into him. He's got the bulk to take most non-boosted attacks, even unboosted Thunderbolts from certain pokes (like a non-LO Thunderus-I for example). No one wants to switch into his STAB Hydro Pumps or his psuedo-STABBED dark/fighting coverage. Ice Beam is great for revenge killing stuff like ScarfChomp and Dragonite. Due to his lack of recovery, he's really not all that he's cracked out to be as a spinner, so why not let something like Latios or Latias do the spinning for him (as a bonus, Latias gets to Wish Pass as well). He works best as a pivot similar to Conkeldurr (something stupid strong who can take a hit that can also force switches). Why waste the mega slot on something that removes hazards. I SAY NAY! Use him for what he's good for: Fucking Shit Up. Is he Mega Charizard or Mega Pinsir? No, but he's a great hole puncher with coverage that is unmatched by anything. He's got great versatility with an all-out attacking set that only Azumarill can claim to resist fully (and even he will take a good amount of damage if he's not running AV). He requires some support but he himself is great at supporting other sweepers like Garchomp, Terrakion, and even Talonflame, punching holes in things to make their job easier. The only real flaw he has is the lack of recovery. Seriously, try out an all-out attacking set before you throw him in the dump. MEGA BLASTOISE IS HERE TO STAY!

 

[GlassGlaceon]

my boy chesnaught hit you up with a spiky shield, as shown above.

Let's go over what chesnaught beats.
Mega-Gyarados (w/out the rare bounce, and even then, it can switch out)
Gengar (w/out sludge wave)
Ttar (both versions)
bisharp
terrakion
Ferrothorn
The daunting Crawfish
Crumbler aegislash (SD beats it 1-on-1)
excadrill
hippo
Lando-T
chansey
and other things I'm not bothered to mention cuz gtg soon. it isn't OU's best tank, but it walls a good portion of powerful OU threats. I support it's move up to B/B+, but no further. For anyone comparing this to ferro, Ferrothorn is great because it's a mixed tank. Ferrothorn also has the advantage of not getting bodybagged by fairy types such as azumarill and sylveon. chesnaught is purely physical and has subpar special defense, although it does have spiky shield+leech seed, which can wear down physical attackers very quickly. Chesnaught is p good, but not truly great, and should be moved up to B/B+ only. Both are crippled by 4x weaknesses in which dangerous mons *char x and y and talon (although it basically 2HKOS itself when it goes for a flare blitz) for ferro* *mega pinsir and talonflame for chesnaught* were added to this gen, but they both still wall a good chunk of the relevant OU Metagame.
tl;dr: Chesnaught for B/B+ and #FlyntFlossyIsTheNewChesnaught

 

[skies]

Let's go over what chesnaught beats.

• Mega-Gyarados (w/out the rare bounce, and even then, it can switch out)

It can do well, but
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 168-198 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Then you have the Taunt sets who shut it down. After Intimidate:
-1 4 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 144-170 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
And this isn't the bulky set. It doesn't beat Mega Gyarados 100% of the time but it certainly fares well.

• Gengar (w/out sludge wave)

Gengar is not countered by Chesnaught!
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 216-255 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
What can Chesnaught do in return to it? It can switch in on Shadow Ball and pull off one layer of spikes, but then it dies (of course if Focus Blast hits). It can counter sets without Focus Blast, but most carry it anyways for Tyranitar and such.

• Ttar (both versions)

+1 252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 202-238 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
Not DD M-Tyranitar. Hammer Arm OHKOes, but you still cannot switch in safely or set up. Other sets are beaten, but not any sets carrying Fire Blast:
0 SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 192-228 (50.5 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
Hammer Arm OHKOes obviously here, but you can't switch safely in without being dented.

• bisharp

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 227-269 (59.7 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
If Defiant has been activated then you've only got a 70% chance of hitting next turn thanks to Iron Head's Flinch chance (iirc, pardon me if this is incorrect). But this is still shaky, of course you shouldn't stay in, but Bisharp can 2HKO.

• terrakion

Literally only 252+ Choice Band can break through it, but that sucks lol. So yeah, Terrakion stopped.

• Ferrothorn

lol

• The daunting Crawfish

You guys realize that Crawdaunt can carry Aerial Ace:
252+ Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 224-265 (58.9 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Can't switch in then and you'll be killed next turn.

• Crumbler aegislash (SD beats it 1-on-1)

Flash Cannon OHKOes, and it isn't that silly to run, but still uncommon. Otherwise, yeah.

• excadrill

lol yes. +2 Iron Head does 2HKO though.

• hippo

How does Chesnaught beat Hippowdown? It isn't a 100% chance to 7HKO while you get Toxic stalled. It doesn't beat it in anyway. Hippowdown just can't hit it.

• Lando-T

I see my set has not caught on yet, hmm
192 SpA Life Orb Landorus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 177-211 (46.5 - 55.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
But yeah.

• chansey

Hammer Arm has a very small chance to 2HKO w/o SR and a 98% chance with, however w/o SR you get stalled to death by Wish + Toxic stall.

 

[the-bumper-car]

So, anybody here considering moving Scolipede up to B+? He's the best Speed Boost pokemon in OU right now, and he has multiple viable sets revolving around abusing Speed Boost - he can be a dedicated Baton Passer (passing Swords Dance or Iron Defense along with Speed), he can be a hazard lead thanks to his access to Spikes + Toxic Spikes, and he can even be a Swords Dance sweeper. One of the sets I'm using actually works well as a combo of BP+Sweeper - boost on set-up bait, then pass either +1 Speed or +1 Speed and +2 Atk to one of his teammates when the counter comes in. His main problems is that he has serious 4MSS, and really wishes he could have both Focus Sash and some form of recovery at the same time. Having BP helps him deal with the liability that is his Bug-typing in today's Flying/Steel/Fire focused Meta.

 

[Rilan]

Gengar (w/out sludge wave)
Gengar is not countered by Chesnaught!
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 216-255 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
What can Chesnaught do in return to it? It can switch in on Shadow Ball and pull off one layer of spikes, but then it dies (of course if Focus Blast hits). It can counter sets without Focus Blast, but most carry it anyways for Tyranitar and such.

Not to nitpick or anything, but isn't Chesnaught immune to Focus Blast? Hopefully most Gengar sets won't have Psychic or Dazzling Gleam. Assuming Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, and Focus blast are all run on the same set, Chesnaught is golden with Leech Seed stalling or seeding a switch-in, unless Gengar also runs Substitute :/ but even then Spikes can still be laid out like you mentioned.

 

[Ajwf]

Chesnaught, your post was hilarious. Did you know Crawdaunt also gets Hidden Powers? I heard that's standard to beating Chesnaught as well. In fact, with Hidden Power Electric, Diggersby can do massive damage to Skarmory!

Secondly, Chesnaught 90% of the time has spiky shield, thus making Bounce Gyara irrelevant. If it switches in on the M-Gyara DD, takes the ice fang as it hammer arms and SS the next turn, it wins. Chesnaught also isn't coming in on Gyarados, it should never come in on a flying type. It waits until mega to come in, so -1 is irrelevant.

Vs TTar, it wins on DDance turn as well... Why you're questioning this, I have no idea. Yes, a fire blast hurts but running special ttar is rare enough that A. It's irrelevant and B. it apparently can't OHKO.

If you feed Bisharp defiant, you SHOULD have to check it for being a moron in an obvious situation. Most likely, though, it'll SD as you come in. Thus you win bar flinch bullshit.

Chesnaught has to carry EQ now to beat Aegi or risk Sub Aegislash. Fact of life, it now beats all Aegi bar Weakness policy.

Lol@Craw's aerial ace. True pros use HP flying, nub.

Lastly, this isn't gen5... why are you running HP Ice Lando-T when Lando I obviously exists?

 

[Molk]

Let's go over what chesnaught beats.

• Mega-Gyarados (w/out the rare bounce, and even then, it can switch out)

It can do well, but
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 168-198 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Then you have the Taunt sets who shut it down. After Intimidate:
-1 4 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 144-170 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
And this isn't the bulky set. It doesn't beat Mega Gyarados 100% of the time but it certainly fares well.

I wouldn't exactly call having a really good shot at 2HKOing Mega Gyarados (guarenteed with rocks) AFTER an intimidate drop being shut down ._.. Especially considering that Mega Gyarados would need to be running either Ice Fang or random Bounce to be able to hit Mega Gyarados in return. DD and taunt already take up two moveslots, so to be able to run once of these moves you'd either have to forego running a STAB move (terrible idea), or run Waterfall/Ice Fang as your offensive moves, which is ofc dumb because Earthquake is too good to pass up. Bounce just gets completely blocked simply by using spiky shield on the turn it gets hit >_>.

• Gengar (w/out sludge wave)

Gengar is not countered by Chesnaught!
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 216-255 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
What can Chesnaught do in return to it? It can switch in on Shadow Ball and pull off one layer of spikes, but then it dies (of course if Focus Blast hits). It can counter sets without Focus Blast, but most carry it anyways for Tyranitar and such.

Bulletproof blocks Focus Blast .____.

+1 252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 202-238 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
Not DD M-Tyranitar. Hammer Arm OHKOes, but you still cannot switch in safely or set up. Other sets are beaten, but not any sets carrying Fire Blast:
0 SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 192-228 (50.5 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
Hammer Arm OHKOes obviously here, but you can't switch safely in without being dented.

First off, DD mega Tyranitar should be running a jolly nature at all times imo, it gets a little speed from the mega evolution, but it still isn't enough to justify not running a +speed nature to outrun as much as possible. One important example is Greninja, who can outspeed and Hydro Pump +1 adamant Megatar but gets outsped and OHKO'd by +1 jolly megatar. Considering this, this is how much a best case scenario +1 Ice Punch is going to be doing

+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 182-216 (47.8 - 56.8%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

Now considering that Chesnaught will most likely be switching in as megatar uses DD, an Ice Punch on the switch should be doing even less than that.

252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 124-146 (32.6 - 38.4%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

(and this is assuming they predict the switch lol)

From here Chesnaught can just OHKO megatar with Hammer Arm while staying alive itself, or predict the switch and Leech Seed+Spiky Shield for some recovery. Chesnaught is pretty well off here imo lol.

• Lando-T

I see my set has not caught on yet, hmm
192 SpA Life Orb Landorus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 177-211 (46.5 - 55.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
But yeah.

Uhhhhh......

Anyways, i'm agreeing with Glassglaceon that Chesnaught is a pretty cool Pokemon in the current metagame and definitely deserves a little promotion up from B- to B rank. It has some pretty damn solid physical bulk and the resistances to common offensive types such as Water, Ground, Rock, and Dark-type moves are pretty damn invaluable, and make it a pretty damn big pain in the ass against quite a few solid Pokemon, namely the ones mentioned in glassglaceon's post. Bulletproof is just the icing on the cake, and those handy immunities to bomb based moves let it give even more Pokemon a hard time, most notably mixed Aegislash. It shouldn't be moved up any higher though imo, since while it checks some good mons, it struggles against some really really common threats too, including the zards, mega pinsir, and tflame, struggling with these very common and threatening Pokemon means that proper team support is absolutely required when using Chesnaught, and the need for support to ensure that these Pokemon can't take advantage of Chesnaught to cleave through a team stops it from moving up any higher imo.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Let's go over what chesnaught beats.

• Mega-Gyarados (w/out the rare bounce, and even then, it can switch out)

It can do well, but
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 168-198 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Then you have the Taunt sets who shut it down. After Intimidate:
-1 4 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 144-170 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
And this isn't the bulky set. It doesn't beat Mega Gyarados 100% of the time but it certainly fares well.

• Gengar (w/out sludge wave)

Gengar is not countered by Chesnaught!
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 216-255 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
What can Chesnaught do in return to it? It can switch in on Shadow Ball and pull off one layer of spikes, but then it dies (of course if Focus Blast hits). It can counter sets without Focus Blast, but most carry it anyways for Tyranitar and such.

• Ttar (both versions)

+1 252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 202-238 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
Not DD M-Tyranitar. Hammer Arm OHKOes, but you still cannot switch in safely or set up. Other sets are beaten, but not any sets carrying Fire Blast:
0 SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 192-228 (50.5 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
Hammer Arm OHKOes obviously here, but you can't switch safely in without being dented.

• bisharp

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 227-269 (59.7 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
If Defiant has been activated then you've only got a 70% chance of hitting next turn thanks to Iron Head's Flinch chance (iirc, pardon me if this is incorrect). But this is still shaky, of course you shouldn't stay in, but Bisharp can 2HKO.

• terrakion

Literally only 252+ Choice Band can break through it, but that sucks lol. So yeah, Terrakion stopped.

• Ferrothorn

lol

• The daunting Crawfish

You guys realize that Crawdaunt can carry Aerial Ace:
252+ Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 224-265 (58.9 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Can't switch in then and you'll be killed next turn.

• Crumbler aegislash (SD beats it 1-on-1)

Flash Cannon OHKOes, and it isn't that silly to run, but still uncommon. Otherwise, yeah.

• excadrill

lol yes. +2 Iron Head does 2HKO though.

• hippo

How does Chesnaught beat Hippowdown? It isn't a 100% chance to 7HKO while you get Toxic stalled. It doesn't beat it in anyway. Hippowdown just can't hit it.

• Lando-T

I see my set has not caught on yet, hmm
192 SpA Life Orb Landorus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 177-211 (46.5 - 55.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
But yeah.

• chansey

Hammer Arm has a very small chance to 2HKO w/o SR and a 98% chance with, however w/o SR you get stalled to death by Wish + Toxic stall.

IMO sub seed is its best set if you want the most consistent performance. I know I said it has perks like Roar and stuff but Seed/Spiky/Sub/Hammer is the set I've used. Then again most of my experience with it is on a rain team, so I didn't have the option of Synthesis and I couldn't fit in Defiant/Spinblock support for a Spikes set.

Mega Dos:
-Are there sets that simultaneously run Ice Fang, Dragon Dance and Taunt? Cause then you have to choose between Erfquake and Waterfall
-Intim calc is kind of pointless, you're switching in to Gyarados, not the other way around. Add in pebbles damage and Chesnaught wins here anyway, and subseed wins too
-Bounce is completely stopped by Spiky Shield

Gengar:
-Bulletproof makes him immune to Focus Blast. Gengar only wins if it has Dazzling Gleam or Sludge Wave, or some more uncommon shit like Psychic. Gengar is such a non-issue for pretty much every team I've made so I've never had to specifically use Chesnaught to handle him, I don't really know what sets will carry that coverage.

Mega TTar:
-DD T-Tar sets are going to use Jolly. Chesnaught also avoids the 2HKO with Leech Seed. It OHKOs with Hammer Arm so it wins anyway.
-Yeah it wins with Fire Blast

Bisharp:
-Flinch hax is a bitch but so is Stone Miss. Chesnaught wins here.

Terrakion:
-CB CC 2HKOs so switching in to it is a bit of a hit or miss, but at least you can dick with it with Spiky Shield before switching out to a fighting resist. Loses to SubSD sets too, but is generally a safe check.

Crawdaunt:
-Before it went to BL, Crawdaunt carried Aerial Ace in UU specifically because Chesnaught was a top defensive threat. In OU, Chesnaught does not have as much prominence, so I don't think any would be running Aerial Ace over Super Power or a boosting move

Aegislash:
-Subseed beats SD sets. Chesnaught wins against Aegislash unless it's SubToxic or has Flash Cannon/HP Ice.

Lando-T:
-HP Ice, u wot m8

Chansey:
-Wins with Leech Seed. delishus

 

[skies]

• Gengar (w/out sludge wave)

Bulletproof blocks Focus Blast .____.

u.u sorry the calculator doesn't block it. It does for shadow ball / sludge bomb though.

 

[Hclegend]

Wow! You really should read more before you get about spouting your uninformed opinion as though its fact! I would also like to point out to you that Klefki does not get taunt.

I don't even know where to begin.
At least the other two people who quoted me didn't basically say "Git Gud Noob"
Big talk coming off someone who joined a week before me.
Also "Unimformed Opinion?" Amazing.
The other posts at least told me why I was wrong, by actually backing up their statements with facts.
Oh right, Klefki doesn't get Taunt, so I got him mixed up with Sableye, way to go, give this guy a medal!
While I'm not going to try and flame you for no reason, the fact that at least I tried to justify my (admittedly wrong) facts at least gives me credit for trying. Again, "Unimformed opinion." my ass. My opinions are different from facts and while I could state my opinions, I'll save you the trouble of reading them.
Summary: People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
(So this stays on topic, I also support Chesty moving up)

 

[Ninja Charizard]

I have something crazy to announce:

Mega Blastoise for B+ Rank

TL;DR

I'd say Mega Blastoise is underrated for the same reason Mega Manectric, Mega Garchomp (who people want to lower), Mega Charizard Y (also wanting to lower), and Mega Venusaur are also underrated: people think being a set up sweeper automatically makes a mega better.

What, that thing is a spinner? Not worth the mega slot. Pivot? Not worth the mega slot. Wallbreaker? Not worth. Wall? Worth the mega slot, but lets downgrade it to A+ because it's not an awesome sweeper like ZardX.

Wait, it gets Dragon Dance? S-RANK NOW!!!1!!

 

[Mood4food77]

To be fair, Mega Charizard X is pretty freaking dumb, it's a 1-turn and win kind of Pokemon that has a stupid easy time in doing so

 

[Ajwf]

So, I'm going to say something wildly controversial. Mega Pinsir to A+ rank.

This thing is terrifying. At the beginning of my time playing XY, I was certain we'd have to ban this thing. However recently it's been seen to not be worth as much as it was. First off, the thing at the start of XY was this thing could just destroy stall... Unfortunately, Stall counters it perfectly with Skarmory. Zapdos also does fine, as does Rotom-Wash if you avoid the mold breaker, which reveals itself on switch-ins. Stall covered up Pinsir pretty fast and it was vastly ineffective until these threats were cleared, meaning you probably needed Magnezone or Goth at least.

On Hyper/Bulky offense, the same deal roughly sticks: There's always something. Whether it's Raikou, M-Manectric, Thundurus-i, Rotom-Wash, Talonflame, Terrakion, Garchomp or Landorus-t, there are so many easy checks to Pinsir-mega. And the issue is, checking Mega Pinsir ends in his death if rocks are up. He simply cannot play in and out with much ease.

With any prior damage, this list increases even more to stuff like CB Azumarill (Who bulky sets survive anything but boosted return), Bisharp (sucker punch kills after rocks), LO Mamoswine (who can beat Pinsir if it hasn't boosted regardless of Pinsir's HP, can kill after rocks with priority Ice Shard and survive quick attack), and Dragonite.

But you could make the argument Zard-Y suffers from the same issues coming in and out. While Charizard-Y may be the same way, at least Charizard-Y can feasibly run roost and has bulk to minimize this issue. Terrifying attacks at a higher power separate the two, as well. They mystery of which mega can be an issue, and all in all Charizard is just all around better except in priority.

In essence, Pinsir has nothing going for it anymore... the meta game is too prepared, it's too easy for stall to wall him and many common threats on offensive teams that can easily revenge kill him. He needs a great deal of support in a defogger, a skarm trapper, something to clear out rotom/thundy-i/electric types and something to take care of... all that stuff above. This isn't the S rank "Sweeps everything with little support" mentality, this is something lower to standard A rank. Still, his devastating power once they're gone can afford him an A+ rank.

 

[Mood4food77]

Stall him? With what? Rotom and Zapdos take 65% from a +2 Return, everything else dies, he only needs 1 free turn. Also, Pinsir only takes 25% from SR, this is huge as it gives Mega Pinsir a better chance of switching in than say Charizard who is at first, 50% weak to SR.

There's a reason he only has to run 1 set and that set hasn't been changed since we found out how bonkers Mega Pinsir was. He requires the same amount of support as Aegislash, Charizard, and Thunderus-I do. While he's not as versatile as any of them, he simply doesn't give a fuck and punches your face in. There is no way he is anything less than S-Rank.

 

[Baharoth]

This isn't the S rank "Sweeps everything with little support" mentality

Well everything exept Skarmory, I think thats still S Rank worty. Rotom gets worn down quickly and Zapdos has to watch his ass like hell in order to not take any prior dmg otherwise he gets killed by +2 Pinsir. The fact that there are a few things that can revenge kill him is hardly a reason to demote him because every sweeper ever in existence can be revenge killed by something. The only thing the other 5 teammates of Pinsir have to do is kill Skarm and get some dmg on Rotom/Zapdos after that its gg, if thats not S Rank material i dont know what is. And with hazard removal to keep his side clear of Rocks he is even worse as he can put immense pressure on the opponent and wear down his checks on his own.

Oh and that

With any prior damage, this list increases even more to stuff like CB Azumarill (Who bulky sets survive a +2 anything)

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 411-484 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

What kind of bulky set did you have in mind? And thats not the only flaw in your check list, Garchomp cant stop it as he is slower and gets ohkoed by Return, Lando T can do it, but only with Stoneedge/Rockslide and at full life since +1 Pinsir does 98% max to full def Lando T.

 

[Ajwf]

Really? Rotom-W/Zap come in on +2, get hit and KO. Game over. Skarm can take +3, tbh. Everything else checks him. Taking 25 initially is fine, but he's frail AF so unless you're hitting him with a cushion, he isn't getting that second switch. He has one set not because that set is "Ridiculous" but because that's the best coverage he gets, anything else isn't worth it. Sure, run close combat and lose half of what he hits. Run a bug stab and kill nothing at all... He CAN'T run anything else and be effective.

I would argue that Aegislash and Thundurus-i are "no support" pokemon. You put them on a team, they will function. Charizard needs a defogger, that's about it. Lati can defog with ease and not sacrifice anything doing so. Saying Pinsir is on the same level is a joke. And it isn't just those three pokemon, though on stall it may seem that way. Quagsire can get hits off, as can Porygon2 and defensive ferrothorn. +2 mega Pinsir will die to ferro after rocks, iron barbs and gyro... That's if he gets +2. And the fact that skarm is a stall staple isn't to be overlooked on these teams, there are simply other pokemon that can absorb this hit. Balloon heatran, for example, is both viable and used, and will take out pinsir.

Acting like there are no other checks or even counters is ludicrous. Stall has pokemon to take it, we round him out pretty early and generally with our defoggers. We're not going out of our ways to do this. And you can't take away those checks... Not to mention the ones that could easily be added with scarf/air balloon.

In the end, all stall teams will have one of Zap/Skarm/Rotom/Bulky Aerodactyl-mega (Don't question it until you try it, apparently). HO will have Talonflame, Lando-T, Bisharp, Manectric-mega, Terrakion, Thundurus-i, Garchomp... The likes. Bulky offense will probably have Lando-T, Raikou, rotom-wash, Garchomp, Azumarill... You get the point. There's way too much in the meta to end Pinsir-mega early, and pinsir doesn't have the longevity to take them after switching in and switching out.

 

[Durant]

I think A+ rank is fine for mega Pinsir as he does require a bit more support than other S pokemon to be useful and even then A+ is not bad ranking or anything.

On a side note some changes have been made in the victory road viability ranking and those changes haven't been made here.

 

[Baharoth]

Really? Rotom-W/Zap come in on +2, get hit and KO. Game over. Skarm can take +3, tbh. Everything else checks him. Taking 25 initially is fine, but he's frail AF so unless you're hitting him with a cushion, he isn't getting that second switch. He has one set not because that set is "Ridiculous" but because that's the best coverage he gets, anything else isn't worth it. Sure, run close combat and lose half of what he hits. Run a bug stab and kill nothing at all... He CAN'T run anything else and be effective.

I would argue that Aegislash and Thundurus-i are "no support" pokemon. You put them on a team, they will function. Charizard needs a defogger, that's about it. Lati can defog with ease and not sacrifice anything doing so. Saying Pinsir is on the same level is a joke. And it isn't just those three pokemon, though on stall it may seem that way. Quagsire can get hits off, as can Porygon2 and defensive ferrothorn. +2 mega Pinsir will die to ferro after rocks, iron barbs and gyro... That's if he gets +2. And the fact that skarm is a stall staple isn't to be overlooked on these teams, there are simply other pokemon that can absorb this hit. Balloon heatran, for example, is both viable and used, and will take out pinsir.

Acting like there are no other checks or even counters is ludicrous. Stall has pokemon to take it, we round him out pretty early and generally with our defoggers. We're not going out of our ways to do this. And you can't take away those checks... Not to mention the ones that could easily be added with scarf/air balloon.

In the end, all stall teams will have one of Zap/Skarm/Rotom/Bulky Aerodactyl-mega (Don't question it until you try it, apparently). HO will have Talonflame, Lando-T, Bisharp, Manectric-mega, Terrakion, Thundurus-i, Garchomp... The likes. Bulky offense will probably have Lando-T, Raikou, rotom-wash, Garchomp, Azumarill... You get the point. There's way too much in the meta to end Pinsir-mega early, and pinsir doesn't have the longevity to take them after switching in and switching out.

Again, Rotom-W has no means of recovery and is quickly worn down to the point where it cant stop Pinsir anymore, further more it has to be physical defensive, the special defensiv set risks getting ohkoed after rocks. Physical defensiv Zapdos is also 2hkoed by + 2 Pinsir, it can barely switch into rocks and take the hit, with any additional prior dmg Zapdos is down for the count. Keeping your "counter" on full life all the time can be difficult sometimes and if you fail you lose. Yes Skarm is a save counter but he is the only one.

Your checks are for the most part very situational or no checks at all. Garchomp is ohkoed, Lando T has a 70% to be ohkoed by Return after rocks and can only fight back if it has Stone Edge/Rock Slide which many sets dont even run. Bisharp needs Pinsir to be on <60% to kill with Sucker Punch, so either Pinsir switched into rocks in Mega Form (will rarely happen) or Bisharp dies. Azumarill is a ohko even with full def investment stop saying its even a check, its not, not even close. That leaves 4 mons from your list that can actually hope to revenge kill it along with 1 save and 2 shaky counters.

I dont know how easy it is for stall to handle Pinsir as i dont play stall teams, but against balanced/offensive teams Pinsir puts tons of pressure on the opponent just by beeing there and one mistake or simply bad luck can fuck up your day. Pinsir is the most powerful and dangerous sweeper in the whole meta and easily deserves its S Rank, more than the others actually since nothing else in S Rank can just win games like that.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

To be fair, Mega Charizard X is pretty freaking dumb, it's a 1-turn and win kind of Pokemon that has a stupid easy time in doing so

I know, I'm not downplaying Xzard, but I've noticed that every time someone talks about a mega, the argument "takes a mega slot" is always mentioned as a downside. Except for set up sweepers. It's like everyone assumes that the default offense/balance team is a mega sweeper with 5 pokemon as support. but if you think about it, the sweeper is also taking a mega slot, you could be using an awesome pivot or wallbreaker as a mega and a non-mega sweeper like Dragonite instead. I don't think the mega slot is so important anymore, the few pokemon who were good enough make it matter are now in uber, and the ones who stayed in OU now compete with non-megas for their niches. It's not impossible to make a competitive team without a single mega pokemon.

 

[the-bumper-car]

I know, I'm not downplaying Xzard, but I've noticed that every time someone talks about a mega, the argument "takes a mega slot" is always mentioned as a downside. Except for set up sweepers. It's like everyone assumes that the default offense/balance team is a mega sweeper with 5 pokemon as support. but if you think about it, the sweeper is also taking a mega slot, you could be using an awesome pivot or wallbreaker as a mega and a non-mega sweeper like Dragonite instead. I don't think the mega slot is so important anymore, the few pokemon who were good enough make it matter are now in uber, and the ones who stayed in OU now compete with non-megas for their niches. It's not impossible to make a competitive team without a single mega pokemon.

It's because it's far easier to build a team around a powerful set-up sweeper than a Spinner, a Pivot, or a tank. And again, partly the difference is that the current sweeper Mega-mons are far, far better at sweeping than the next nearest non-Mega substitute, while the difference in terms of Spinning, Pivoting, and Tanking between M-Blastoise, M-Manectric, and M-Saur are not that significant. (Well, it is certainly a bigger difference between M-saur and his next non-Mega rivals.) Partly the reason is that offensive teams are very sweeper-centric, and if you're not running the best offensive mon around then you're compromising a lot.

 

[RayLang15]

Again, Rotom-W has no means of recovery and is quickly worn down to the point where it cant stop Pinsir anymore, further more it has to be physical defensive, the special defensiv set risks getting ohkoed after rocks. Physical defensiv Zapdos is also 2hkoed by + 2 Pinsir, it can barely switch into rocks and take the hit, with any additional prior dmg Zapdos is down for the count. Keeping your "counter" on full life all the time can be difficult sometimes and if you fail you lose. Yes Skarm is a save counter but he is the only one.

Your checks are for the most part very situational or no checks at all. Garchomp is ohkoed, Lando T has a 70% to be ohkoed by Return after rocks and can only fight back if it has Stone Edge/Rock Slide which many sets dont even run. Bisharp needs Pinsir to be on <60% to kill with Sucker Punch, so either Pinsir switched into rocks in Mega Form (will rarely happen) or Bisharp dies. Azumarill is a ohko even with full def investment stop saying its even a check, its not, not even close. That leaves 4 mons from your list that can actually hope to revenge kill it along with 1 save and 2 shaky counters.

I dont know how easy it is for stall to handle Pinsir as i dont play stall teams, but against balanced/offensive teams Pinsir puts tons of pressure on the opponent just by beeing there and one mistake or simply bad luck can fuck up your day. Pinsir is the most powerful and dangerous sweeper in the whole meta and easily deserves its S Rank, more than the others actually since nothing else in S Rank can just win games like that.

After reading this and previous posts, along with my own experiences with Pinsir. It's obvious Pinsir is well worthy of his 'S' ranking, and I'm of the mindset that he may be due for a Suspect Testing soon.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

It's because it's far easier to build a team around a powerful set-up sweeper than a Spinner, a Pivot, or a tank. And again, partly the difference is that the current sweeper Mega-mons are far, far better at sweeping than the next nearest non-Mega substitute, while the difference in terms of Spinning, Pivoting, and Tanking between M-Blastoise, M-Manectric, and M-Saur are not that significant. (Well, it is certainly a bigger difference between M-saur and his next non-Mega rivals.) Partly the reason is that offensive teams are very sweeper-centric, and if you're not running the best offensive mon around then you're compromising a lot.

The reason I don't like "it takes up a mega slot" is because, strictly speaking, that doesn't change how well they can perform their roles. Just gonna quote what I said awhile back:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

Going by these definitions, Mega Man fits somewhere in B just fine. There's not mention of opportunity cost. Mega Man doesn't have the power, coverage or boosting ability to "sweep a significant portion of the meta," it doesn't the bulk to wall it either, but it can "properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche" (intimidate+STAB Volt Switch+High Speed+Flammenwerfer) and it doesn't have really have any "flaws that prevent [it] from consistently executing [its] strategy."

The suggestion was just for B+ anyway. It's not like he was saying it's as strong as the other megas.

"Takes up the slot" is a drawback for using a mega, but it's not a "flaw that prevents [it] from consistently executing [its] strategy." I just don't think it's important to bring up.

And again, partly the difference is that the current sweeper Mega-mons are far, far better at sweeping than the next nearest non-Mega substitute

I gotta say, this is an overstatement.