But what good is being the best Rapid Spinner (M-stoise) in the game, when you can't abuse the two best reasons not to have Stealth Rock on your side (M-Charizard and M-Pinsir?). What good is being the best Pivot, when you can't pivot to these two? That is a notable flaw, IMHO. M-Venusaur doesn't have that much of an issue, as I've already conceded, since he is still the best wall by a large margin AND he can function on teams that don't necessarily need M-Zard or M-Pinsir.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Talonflame also likes rocks gone.
Zapdos, Rotom-W and the likes switches in on SD and from there on they handle it. And stall specifically rarely needs to use their switches to MPinsir, unless the opponent has specifically made a team to wear them out... Which is bad team structure.
Against offense, good luck trying to get off the SD. And if you do, scarf Chomp/Thundy-I/Talonflame/Terrakion revenges and Bisharp forces you to quick attack if you've taken rocks damage after mega.
It's not that effective anymore, as most teams carry one single thing that pressure your MPinsir. It's good, but remember it wasn't even S rank whilst it was considered "The Danger" itself. Now it's overprepared for, and unlike Aegis, it doesn't have the value of being thrown on any team with the option of destroying his potential checks. He's got one set, and that set is very easy to handle imo. And, I never agreed to S rank with Pinsir to start with, anyways.
Now, I haven't checked if there's been any discussion regarding Terrakion on neither of the ranking threads, but I personally find A- to be preposterous. Terrakion has been a major offensive threat since the advent of BW with two excellent STABs, durable bulk and coverage to back him up. His speed stat is even better this gen than last, and despite the general influx of priority, he remains hardly less effective at all (and he does get Quick Attack too for CB/All-out LO sets). He is a most excellent check to many of the greater threats in the current meta, including the already mentioned Mega Pinsir, as well as others like Bisharp, Zard Y (and +1 X if scarf), Dragonite, Mamoswine, Tyranitar and Volcarona. As for things he generally destroy.. well, he's the wallbreaker he's always been. Ferrothorn, Mandibuzz, Togekiss, Skarm (if band or LO after rocks)... you all get the point. Hell, even Mega Venusaur cannot stop him in his tracks..
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 153-180 (42 - 49.4%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
As long as they are still on full life, yes. Balanced teams usually cant afford to keep 1 part of their defensive core on the sidelines for one specific threat so there is a good chance your Zapdos/Rotom-W (especially the latter who lacks recovery) will be damaged when switching into Pinsir and that might be just enough for him to lose.
With 65/120/90 defenses there is no luck involved. And what if the Pinsir player just decides to attack instead of boosting while you switch your Revenger in? Right he takes ~70% dmg and can be picked of with quick attack the next time. Your other choice is to let a mon die any time Pinsir switches in which isnt very beneficial either. The only solid and reliable way to handle Pinsir is Skarm, everything else can work but there is still a significant chance that Pinsir sweeps your team.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.Unless I am missing something (which I very well may) Pinsir does not fit the description of S rank. Pinsir can perform one role effectively (lol stealth rocker). I am no means questioning his power as a set-up sweeper, just saying he doesn't fit the bill. I'm not the greatest OU player so take what I said with a grain of salt.
Sweep significant portions of the metagame. He does exactly that and his only flaw, a 25% SR weakness, is more than mitigated by his sweeping potential. Beeing able to perform multiple roles is one criteria to be S Rank you dont have to fit into all criterias in order to be S rank, one is enough.
While I agree that Rotom-W is easy to whittle, Zapdos finds it easy to remain above 70% hp at all times. This means Zapdos is often used for pivoting as well, due to useful resistances, solid defenses and powerful attacks, as well as reliable recovery. Well, I probably shouldn't list his shit like that, but yeah. He's a useful pivot due to his reliable recovery, meaning that even if he switches in and out, it's simple to just recover up any damage afterwards.
See, whenever I use Pinsir, that's pretty much all I get to do. Attacking straight away. I weaken a mon, yes, but I never get a shot at SDing up later on. Seriously, I've not used SD once without ending up dying that turn, dying next turn or get forced out the next turn. Perhaps I don't know how to "use" him, or perhaps I face off against teams that are overprepared for him. I don't know, I just never get to do anything else than attacking.
See, there's absolutely no need for a pokemon to have counters to make it unmanageable. In Pinsir's case, it's his sheer amount of checks that put him in a problematic position. I personally feel that he suffers from the same issue that Hydreigon did last gen in being a great lack of counters, but is still manageable. He's dangerous when he gets going, but he simply cannot switch in and out as well as, despite having pretty good bulk stat-wise, he's still got a horrible typing. He's weak to all of the most common offensive typings/moves. So unlike Zard Y, which shares his rock weakness after mega, he does not have that many useful resistances aside from Fighting (which is less common this gen anyways). Oh and a ground immunity, but he's never able to utilize that well.
To put it simple, his issues include many checks, hard to switch in and bad typing. If he gets going, he's dangerous, but so is Mega Ttar or Mega Gyarados or SubSD Terrak or BU Talons or whatever. And those have many more setup chances than Pinsir. Now, I'm not saying it's not dangerous, I just find it horribly over exaggerated.
Mega Pinsir easily sweeps the entire metagame, as flying is one of the best, if not the best, offensive types in the game. His only weakness is a 25% SR weakness, which is easily rectified with a spinner/defogger; even with rocks up, the combination of Mega Pinsir's base 120 Def and 105 Speed/Quick Attack allow it to tear apart the tier.
There's other rock-weak stuff, you know. Like Talonflame. Or Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Thundurus, Dragonite, Kyu-B, Volcarona...
Yeah you can't pivot in a mega but you can still pivot in other scary stuff like Landrous-I, Terrakion, Garchomp, Bisharp, Azumarill, Aegislash, Kyu-B, Keldeo...
I mean really you're making it sound like mega pinsir and charizard should be on absolutely every team. Ridiculous.
Lucario was banned because there were no counters for him, revenging/checking him wasnt much of an issue as well.
I agree that Pinsir is manageable, he would get banned if he wasnt, and he certainly isnt the best sweeper to try setup multiple times but he is so dangerous when he gets that boost and even without boost he can ohko/2hko so much its not funny. He is predictable, he cant setup multiple times and his typing sucks but he is fast, extremely powerful and has all the tools he needs to wreck havoc so I see no real reason to demote him, especially if I compare him to Charizard X who has an even bigger problem with rocks, doesnt have the raw power, is slower, has no priority, suffers alot from recoil/drawbacks on his most powerful moves and is easier to counter/check.
Lucario was banned due to his great speed, excellent offensive stats and humongous movepool, as well as sporting an incredible typing that gave him many chances to setup (despite his bulk being below average). But the main reason was that his two setup sets had different counters and priority on both sides, making switching in harder than aborting an adopted ten year old. He did have counters for his sets, but not for him in general. Well, aside from a shaky one in bulky Gyarados.
Also, Zard X is more often the Tank set nowadays anyways. And he does not have a bigger rock problem, no. Because he can roost of the initial rocks damage, and after that do his thing with 25% instead of 50% upon switch-ins.. Pinsir has it the other way around, without recovery. Also, I agree with the DD set being another Early meta monster which is more manageable nowadays.
As for how dangerous he is with his boost.. well, yeah, I mean even Infernape is kinda scary after a setup. That's the point of setting up. When we look on these mons, it's not how dangerous they are after a boost (well, a bit) but rather how easy it comes for them to setup. I would also argue and saying how easy it is to slap a mon on a team contributes to their viability, but that really isn't something everyone agrees to so that's fine, and Pinsir is not a pokemon for every team. He does require substantial support in getting rid of hazards, getting rid of (or weaken to the point that he can do his thing) his checks/counters and generally needs aid to thrive and be a "slap on everything" mon, like Thundy-I and Aegis are.
pinsir needs something to remove rocks and pokemon he has trouble with, just like the charizards and thunderus-i do
there is nothing wrong with a little support, especially when pinsir literally only needs latios to support him, i'm not going very far to support him
seriously, stop saying he needs extra support, he doesn't, most teams only carry 1 pokemon to stop him because of the roles they cover (similar roles), at most 2 and all of those pokes have trouble with latios, and a +2 regular pinsir deals a lot to rotom with EQ (mold breaker)
he can be slapped on almost every team with ease and cleans up better than almost any pokemon can
there is nothing wrong with a little support, especially when pinsir literally only needs latios to support him, i'm not going very far to support him
seriously, stop saying he needs extra support, he doesn't, most teams only carry 1 pokemon to stop him because of the roles they cover (similar roles), at most 2 and all of those pokes have trouble with latios, and a +2 regular pinsir deals a lot to rotom with EQ (mold breaker)
he can be slapped on almost every team with ease and cleans up better than almost any pokemon can
How the hell? I haven't seen any discussion on Espeon (In the VR Part at least)
Something is afoot :/
April Fools. It'll go back to C+ after the day is over.
Of course. And here's me thinking that Missingno in Showdown was the April Fools thingy. Why THAT got removed is another story altogether.I screencapped the post before it got removed
Nominating Magnezone for B+
Why such a massive jump from C?Simply put, it is THE best partner for top threats, name DD Mega TTar, Mega Gyarados, Mega Scizor, and Mega Pinsir.. How is this? Magnet Pull. It traps ferrothorn, skarmory, and other steel type defensive/offensive threats. It isnt deadweight with those threats gone either! It hits hard with base 130 special attack, and with specs on top of that, it is a wrecking ball. Not to mention, dragmag, while ineffective, still works to an extent. Magnezone's low usage is criminal.
Why such a massive jump from C?Simply put, it is THE best partner for top threats, name DD Mega TTar, Mega Gyarados, Mega Scizor, and Mega Pinsir.. How is this? Magnet Pull. It traps ferrothorn, skarmory, and other steel type defensive/offensive threats. It isnt deadweight with those threats gone either! It hits hard with base 130 special attack, and with specs on top of that, it is a wrecking ball. Not to mention, dragmag, while ineffective, still works to an extent. Magnezone's low usage is criminal.
Alright, I'm gonna bring something up that's been bothering me.
Get this thing out of B-
Galvantula is a bit like Donphan in the sense that it's a pretty terrible Pokemon with traits that somehow seem attractive to new or bad players. Sticky Web is not enough to prevent Galvantula from sucking. It's not even easy to set up and maintain Sticky Web long enough. Galvantula is super frail, so it can't come in on anything directly, and it's much too weak to force out anything that isn't weak to Electric or Bug. Sticky Web isn't even worth setting up much of the time because the metagame is so bulky and infested with priority. Sticky Web didn't save Shuckle from being unranked, or Smeargle from making it above C-, so why should it save Galvantula?
Galvantula is a bit like Donphan in the sense that it's a pretty terrible Pokemon with traits that somehow seem attractive to new or bad players. Sticky Web is not enough to prevent Galvantula from sucking. It's not even easy to set up and maintain Sticky Web long enough. Galvantula is super frail, so it can't come in on anything directly, and it's much too weak to force out anything that isn't weak to Electric or Bug. Sticky Web isn't even worth setting up much of the time because the metagame is so bulky and infested with priority. Sticky Web didn't save Shuckle from being unranked, or Smeargle from making it above C-, so why should it save Galvantula?
My main problem with Magnazone is lack of levitate. It'll need an air ballon so it isn't totally destroyed by any ground type move.
...levitate defeats the entire purpose, it's supposed to be trapping steel types with its ability.
I understand that, but a quad weakness to a common and powerful type just doesn't sit well with me. I cannot deny the awesome that is Magnazone, but maybe lack of levitate/ magnet rise being useless is just me being nitpicky.
Idk, for me its just more its reliance on HP to deal with other Steel types. HP was nerfed slightly this gen, and to secure KOs on most, it needs to be Choice Spec'd Analytic...which defeats the purpose of trapping opposing Steels.
252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 256-304 (72.7 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Analytic Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 332-392 (94.3 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
While you certainly cripple them, its still just a little to see him have to resort to that for damage (like how Entei requires CB for OHKO with Bulldoze on Heatran...).
That's the only fault I find with Magnezone though. Has exceptional power, nice Dual STABs, and lots of fun firing of whatever HP it chooses. just wish it didn't have to resort to em.
What is Ferrothorn going to do back though?
Spike like something that is very spikey. I can't think of a clever analogy right now.
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