Resource LC Viability Rankings

[Amp Pharaohs]

I will argue for Skiddo place in C-rank, mainly due to the fact that it can deal with Chou and is a very good lure for Flying-types, whom it can deal good damage to with Rock Slide. And access to two recovery options(Milk Drink and Horn Leech) means it can have longevity against teams to lack a Flying-type. Considering that Max Atk Fletch Acrobatics does not OHKO Skiddo after a Bulk Up is pretty impressive, and it can OHKO less bulky variants.

Some calcs:
-0 SpA Chinchou Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Eviolite Skiddo: 10-12 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
-76+ Atk Skiddo Horn Leech vs. 76 HP / 212+ Def Eviolite Chinchou: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(This is assuming Chou has Ice Beam, which many don't currently)
Of course Skiddo doesn't like Scald Burn, but that is the risk anything takes on switching into Chou.

-196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +1 0 HP / 52 Def Eviolite Skiddo: 14-18 (60.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-+1 76+ Atk Skiddo Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 92 Def Fletchling: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So if Fletchling switches in on Bulk Up, it ends up losing the fight and Skiddo may still have around 30% of his HP, which means he can take another hit from a Physical attacker and recovery with Horn Leech/Milk Drink.

76+ Atk Skiddo Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Murkrow: 18-22 (81.8 - 100%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Although this likely won't play out this way in an actual match(Skiddo likely won't be at 100%) this are pretty important since they mean Skiddo can KO a possible Check so easily after SR or some prior damage.

Like honestly, I'm not saying Skiddo is great, or even good, but it is pretty unique and has enough coverage to suit its needs. I believe these calcs are pretty relevant, since it allows it to fill a niche, which is why I think Skiddo belongs in C-Rank.(Of course you could argue that Fighting-types with Bulk Up can fill the same niche, however there is a reason most of them are A+ rank and they cannot deal with Chou as easily Skiddo, giving it a slight niche over them)

 

[Wobbyble]

skiddo doesnt like being burned, i dont see how its a switch in to Chou.
you're severely overestimating skiddo at +1, i made the same mistake. skiddo is useless and belongs in D

 

[Amp Pharaohs]

I suppose you're correct, it really doesn't like Burn, which really kind of ruins its ability to switch into Water-types. I definitely overestimated it when I said it was "good" switch-in to Chinchou, when really isn't because it is physically based. And getting to +1 is actually pretty difficult for it in the current meta, so I guess I can see it in D-rank.

 

[Rowan]

skiddo, phantump, pumpkin and lolbronzor all been demoted

prem does nothing for this thread

 

[Expulso]

Can we get High, Mid and Low ranks? (or +, neutral, and -).

There are 15 Pokemon in A, 19 in B and a whopping 40 in C Rank. It's getting a bit crowded.

 

[Magcargo]

Slowpoke --> B-Rank.
With Gligar and Swirlix ban, Slowpoke is much worse in the metagame. It has greats stats, movepool, and ability, but its heavily crippled by its typing, as its typing gives Slowpoke weaknesses to common attacking-types such as Dark, Bug, Electric, and Ghost.Due to its typing, Slowpoke cannot reliably wall a majority of A-Rank and S-Rank. That being said, Slowpoke does provide utility with Thunder Wave and Scald and regenerator allows it to stay around for a while, but its inability to wall a significant portion of the tier makes it a B-Rank Pokemon.

Can we get High, Mid and Low ranks? (or +, neutral, and -).

There are 15 Pokemon in A, 19 in B and a whopping 40 in C Rank. It's getting a bit crowded.

I feel the metagame is too early in its development state to add + and - rankings. Once the metagame becomes a bit more refined, then it would probably be a much better time to add + or - rankings.

 

[Camden]

Let's at least wait until the current suspect period ends before we start specifying stuff like that. As for now, I have to agree that Slowpoke should move down to B-Rank. While Regenerator compliments its bulk well, and its movepool is great, it's too easily bothered by Knock Off, U-turn, and Volt Switch, three of the biggest momentum-affecting moves in the game. They all not only hamper Slowpoke's ability to perform its walling duties, but he take super-effective from all of them. He unfortunately cannot deal with a decent portion of the meta reliably enough because of the overbearing presense of these moves.

 

[Rowan]

Slowpoke -> B =]

 

[Salkovon]

Drilbur A- Fast and powerful (but frail), it can sweep with SD while supporting with rapid spin. It has a handy resistance to rock, a great boon for any spinner to have. It only really needs two moves for coverage (Rock Slide and EQ). While it's Sand Sweeping days are over, it can now use Mold Breaker to beat Levitate users (even though they aren't that common bar missy, but why would you stay in on a Missy).

Honedge C- Garbage ability, average movepool, no kings shield make it really bad. The only reason it's C not D is because it is the only counter to Meditite. Other than that, it's nothing.

 

[Wobbyble]

why would you have swords dance on Drilbur lol.

Slide/EQ/SR/Spin, yeah you could run something else for SR but drilbur just isnt worth running unless its for rocks and spinning

 

[absdaddy]

why sd? to setup on lead dweb, ohko it, ohko spinblock-attempting missy,spin. im not even running rocks on drilbur since MB earthquake takes care of sturdy (BAN ME PLEASE) anyway.

 

[Merritt]

Swords Dance is absolutely one of the best options for non-bulky drilbur, as without it it suddenly becomes a far worse answer to Dwebble. Max attack Drilbur will fail to OHKO Dwebble, but both Earthquake and Rock Slide will do more than 50%, requiring three hits. On the other hand, after a swords dance, Drilbur can OHKO Dwebble with Earthquake. In addition, at +2, Drilbur is extremely threatening, as it at least 2HKOs essentially the entire tier. Misdreavus, the best ghost not weak to Earthquake, is OHKOed by +2 Earthquake. Incidentally, this makes Pumpkaboo and Phantump much better options, as Pumpkaboo especially can 2HKO with Seed Bomb and Shadow Sneak, while only taking (+2 236 Atk Mold Breaker Drilbur Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pumpkaboo-Super: 15-18 (68.1 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) 81.8% at most.

With so many other options for rocks, and Drilbur's insane power with +2 Mold Breaker SlideQuake, Swords Dance is 9 times out of 10 a better option.

 

[Anna says hi]

Azurill for C rank.

It's actually usable as a trick room sweeper, unlike what many people think. It can't do anything else though.

Also Bunnelby for A rank. Scarf Bunnelby tho.

 

[Expulso]

but why would you use azurill when bunnelby is basically better azurill

 

[Merritt]

Azurill for C rank.

It's actually usable as a trick room sweeper, unlike what many people think. It can't do anything else though.

Also Bunnelby for A rank. Scarf Bunnelby tho.

Much as I'm a fan of Azurill, it has a middling at best set with Trick Room. It has middling defenses, and must actually switch in to get the most out of trick room, as it cannot learn it. In addition, even if it manages to come in safely, it just doesn't have good enough moves to take advantage of it. It has no fairy STAB, and return sometimes just doesn't cut it. At best it's D-rank.

As for Bunnelby, the same arguments as when it was demoted to B-rank still stand. It's absolutely good, just not quite A-rank material. That may change after the suspect test, however.

 

[Kavatika]

Azurill for C rank.

It's actually usable as a trick room sweeper, unlike what many people think. It can't do anything else though.

Also Bunnelby for A rank. Scarf Bunnelby tho.

anyways, azurill sports horrible bulk, limited stab options (no stab on water moves really sucks, so does no fairy stab), and is only viable inside trick room which is kinda gimmicky anyways. besides, why would you use it over cranidos on a tr team, who sports really helpful abilities, superior coverage, and a better offensive typing. plus meditite and bunnelby are much better huge power abusers.

 

[kostic]

Okay, time for few proposals :

Croagunk for B rank : After using Croagunk quite a lot, I feel that's it's not A rank worthy. While Croagunk is good because it checks prominent threats/counters prominent threats such as Carvanah, Scraggy and Tirtouga, it does have some flaws that prevents it from being A rank imo. I find it to be a liability in lots of matches because while it does well against what it's supposed, it isn't threatening enough to do something signifiant to the rest of the team(apart from Knock Off). Moreover, while its bulk isn't bad, it's far from good especially when you consider that it will most likely get knocked off when trying to check Pawniard, Mienfoo or Timbur so it can't switch on them more than once. Should be drop to B rank imo.

Honedge for B rank : Honedge is a really cool mon, both offensively and defensively. Defensively, it complety stops Medititewhich is huge and does well against threats such as Fletching(without Overheat) and Spritzee. Offensively, its Swords Dance is really potent, being a good Sweeper and can create holes in mid-game so that a teammate can sweep. Is best set is the Automatize one though. Not only, it oustpeeds everything that isn't a scarfer, allowing to be a big threat against more offensive teams, it also has a fast destiny bond after using Automatize, allowing it to take down something while dying. Overall, even though Honedge has flaws(i.e common weaknesses, bad special bulk and slowness), its strong points make it B rank imo.

Drilbur for A rank : This thing is without a doubt the best spiner in the tier and an awesome hazard setter as well. Thanks to its ability(which can be useful versus Sturdy mons like Tirtouga, Dwebble and Magnemite), it can easily beats basically every spinblockers(Missy and Gastly are 2HKO and OHKO respectively by Mold Breaker Earthquake, Honedge is OHKO most of the time after SR by Earthquake and Frilish which is neither good nor use can be 2HKOed according to its spread). Moreover, with Eviolite, it's quite bulky, able to take hits such as Brave Bird from Murkrow and +2 Shadow Ball from Missy, which means that SR aren't too difficult to set-up. Alternatively, if you don't need Stealth Rock, you can use Swords Dance which makes Drilbur a really potent sweeper. While it seems that Defog gave the mole competiton, it's actually not tue because of Pawniard being everywhere and really dangerous after the Defiant boost. So, A rank for this mon imo.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

Okay, time for few proposals :

Croagunk for B rank : After using Croagunk quite a lot, I feel that's it's not A rank worthy. While Croagunk is good because it checks prominent threats/counters prominent threats such as Carvanah, Scraggy and Tirtouga, it does have some flaws that prevents it from being A rank imo. I find it to be a liability in lots of matches because while it does well against what it's supposed, it isn't threatening enough to do something signifiant to the rest of the team(apart from Knock Off). Moreover, while its bulk isn't bad, it's far from good especially when you consider that it will most likely get knocked off when trying to check Pawniard, Mienfoo or Timbur so it can't switch on them more than once. Should be drop to B rank imo.

Honedge for B rank : Honedge is a really cool mon, both offensively and defensively. Defensively, it complety stops Medititewhich is huge and does well against threats such as Fletching(without Overheat) and Spritzee. Offensively, its Swords Dance is really potent, being a good Sweeper and can create holes in mid-game so that a teammate can sweep. Is best set is the Automatize one though. Not only, it oustpeeds everything that isn't a scarfer, allowing to be a big threat against more offensive teams, it also has a fast destiny bond after using Automatize, allowing it to take down something while dying. Overall, even though Honedge has flaws(i.e common weaknesses, bad special bulk and slowness), its strong points make it B rank imo.

Drilbur for A rank : This thing is without a doubt the best spiner in the tier and an awesome hazard setter as well. Thanks to its ability(which can be useful versus Sturdy mons like Tirtouga, Dwebble and Magnemite), it can easily beats basically every spinblockers(Missy and Gastly are 2HKO and OHKO respectively by Mold Breaker Earthquake, Honedge is OHKO most of the time after SR by Earthquake and Frilish which is neither good nor use can be 2HKOed according to its spread). Moreover, with Eviolite, it's quite bulky, able to take hits such as Brave Bird from Murkrow and +2 Shadow Ball from Missy, which means that SR aren't too difficult to set-up. Alternatively, if you don't need Stealth Rock, you can use Swords Dance which makes Drilbur a really potent sweeper. While it seems that Defog gave the mole competiton, it's actually not tue because of Pawniard being everywhere and really dangerous after the Defiant boost. So, A rank for this mon imo.

That's like saying that any mon with knock off has no counters in regards to croagunk. also gunk can switch into mienfoo, timburr, and can set up on pawn because it'll force a switch because of STAB vacuum wave. note also that croagunk checks/counters/kills way more than you give it credit for. Check my former huge post about croagunk, and that might sway your opinion on why I believe it should be a-rank

 

[Kappaten]

I don't think Honedge is B-rank. At the moment, the only S mon it "checks" is Meditite, who can just run Fire Punch if it wants to beat Honedge. In A, it can beat Cottonee and Spritzee reliably. It doesn't hit hard enough without a Swords Dance, and it's too slow without Autotomize. Autotomize + Destiny Bond is its real niche, and that just isn't worth B-rank imo.

I do support Drilbur for A, though.

 

[TUO]

Okay, time for few proposals :

Croagunk for B rank : After using Croagunk quite a lot, I feel that's it's not A rank worthy. While Croagunk is good because it checks prominent threats/counters prominent threats such as Carvanah, Scraggy and Tirtouga, it does have some flaws that prevents it from being A rank imo. I find it to be a liability in lots of matches because while it does well against what it's supposed, it isn't threatening enough to do something signifiant to the rest of the team(apart from Knock Off). Moreover, while its bulk isn't bad, it's far from good especially when you consider that it will most likely get knocked off when trying to check Pawniard, Mienfoo or Timbur so it can't switch on them more than once. Should be drop to B rank imo.

Croagunk should stay in A-Rank imo. Even if it becomes "a libaility" dependent on team matchup, you can say that's the same for most pokemon. I have a team that has Scarf Pawniard/Chinchou/Archen as a core and it renders Murkrow as somewhat of a liability. Of course, that case is a bit extreme but Croagunk's role on a team and it's niche is way too good for it to be B. Pretty much everything it checks is rising in usage from my personal experience (People are hyping scraggy a bit more now)

Croagunk does have occasional issues of lack of power in comparison to the rest of the mons in LC, which can make it a momentum killer on a lot of offensive teams, which is what keeps it from being an Elite A Mon, but it's still deserves an A rank. If this had subdivisions, it would definitely be an A-.

This will probably never pass, but I'll give it a shot cuz I wanna. I'm going to go and propose Bellsprout for B-Rank (Yeah I just kinda have to.)

This mon is just powerful. If sun is well played and setup and Bellsprout gets a switchin opportunity, you are pretty much fucked for the next few turns, losing 1-3 mons, and maybe something asleep. It 2HKOes 90% of the meta with the combo of SolarBeam/Weather Ball, and when Sun runs out, it can put the opp to sleep and/or Knock Off it's item. You can choose to forego Knock Off for protect if you are really that scared of Fake Outs, or put Sludge Bomb/Growth for extra coverage/late-game sweeping, but anything works out. However, Bellsprout should be used as a powerful Wallbreaker more than a late-game cleaner, even though it is veratile enough to do both. In the sun, it can completely dominate and dent massive holes in the enemy team.

Of course it still definitely has its issues with its need of sun and weakness to Fletchling certain priority, but that's what a team setup is for. This metagame favors explosive and fast Pokemon, and Bellsprout definitely fits that category.

On a side note, Drilbur for A pls, great spinner almost as useful as it was in BW. If only it had Knock Off.....

EDIT: I haven't done this in a while so I might be off in some points

 

[The Quasar]

[...]

This will probably never pass, but I'll give it a shot cuz I wanna. I'm going to go and propose Bellsprout for B-Rank (Yeah I just kinda have to.)

This mon is just powerful. If sun is well played and setup and Bellsprout gets a switchin opportunity, you are pretty much fucked for the next few turns, losing 1-3 mons, and maybe something asleep. It 2HKOes 90% of the meta with the combo of SolarBeam/Weather Ball, and when Sun runs out, it can put the opp to sleep and/or Knock Off it's item. You can choose to forego Knock Off for protect if you are really that scared of Fake Outs, or put Sludge Bomb/Growth for extra coverage/late-game sweeping, but anything works out. However, Bellsprout should be used as a powerful Wallbreaker more than a late-game cleaner, even though it is veratile enough to do both. In the sun, it can completely dominate and dent massive holes in the enemy team.

Of course it still definitely has its issues with its need of sun and weakness to Fletchling certain priority, but that's what a team setup is for. This metagame favors explosive and fast Pokemon, and Bellsprout definitely fits that category.

EDIT: I haven't done this in a while so I might be off in some points

[...]

I agree with The Unlucky one, about Bellsprout for B-Rank. Even if Tangela is gone, but also Ground-Flying Gligar too, I think sun team could have a chance, with a priority moves good support and enough strategic attention to watch out for the same priorities. Solar Beam, Wheater Ball but also KnockOff, Sleep Power, Clear Smog (to reset stat) or Giga Drain to recover HP (perhaps better than Synthesis) are dangerous weapons on sunlight.
.

 

[Kappaten]

One of the main issues Sun has right now is the limited turns. We lost the best defogger in the tier in Gligar, making it harder to keep hazards off the field for Vulpix to keep switching in. Sun also has to worry about being stalled out, either by protect or a Sub user with Prankster. This isn't even mentioning the fact that, since most sun sweepers are so frail, they need to be running Life Orb, leaving them vulnerable to powerful Sucker Punches from Murkow or Pawniard. Not to mention that Sun is incredibly matchup dependent as it is: if there's a Vullaby or a Fletchling on the opposing team, two very common mons, you're going to have a significantly harder time getting to your win condition.

Note the description of C-rank:

Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

That is exactly what all Chlorophyll sweepers are.

 

[apt-get]

why would you have swords dance on Drilbur lol.

Slide/EQ/SR/Spin, yeah you could run something else for SR but drilbur just isnt worth running unless its for rocks and spinning

Because it takes care of Dwebble way more easily than SR?
Because you can beat meditite 1-on-1 with it?
Because you can basically sweep teams by forcing a switch?
I mean OHKOing misdreavus at +2 is a pretty big feat, SD is an absolute must on Drilbur.

 

[Anna says hi]

OHKOing Missy at +2 makes something noteworthy?
Riolu can OHKO Missy with Crunch at +2, but I don't see it above D tier anytime soon.
And let's not forget that Azurill OHKOs Missy at +0 with Knock Off, but it has numerous flaws that keep it from being viable.

 

[Merritt]

OHKOing Missy at +2 makes something noteworthy?
Riolu can OHKO Missy with Crunch at +2, but I don't see it above D tier anytime soon.
And let's not forget that Azurill OHKOs Missy at +0 with Knock Off, but it has numerous flaws that keep it from being viable.

The point is that Missie, one of the premier spinblockers, is killed on the switch. That makes Drilbur a much more viable spinner, as it can remove its counters.

In addition, a +2 Drilbur also OHKOs every single S-rank mon with either Earthquake or Rock Slide.