Here we go again! I believe that Murkrow is broken and unhealthy for the tier, and that Meditite is not unhealthy and should not be banned, and as there are two Pokemon being suspected in this thread, each with their own qualities that affect battling and teambuilding in their own way, I will be covering them separately and picking them apart in great detail.
As usual, before I get into these two Pokemon, I'd like to remind everyone to try and keep
Murkrow and Meditite the main focus here, and try not to discuss any potential aftereffects of either of these Pokemon being banned; this includes what might become "broken" in the future if one or both of these are removed from Little Cup; that has no place and no relevance here. Additionally, while Swagger and Swagger-related combinations received a high amount of votes in the nomination thread, let's try not to discuss that here (including how it should also be suspected or using its amount of votes in the nomination thread to say it's relevant to talk about here because it's "statistically" hated as much as Murkrow/Meditite) outside of Murkrow's use of Prankster parafusion and/or Swagger + Foul Play, as they are existent and relevant sub-topics for Murkrow's capabilities. However, Swagger's uncompetitiveness even there is not debatable and should be avoided entirely to keep this thread from having cancer. Moving on.
Murkrow
Type: Dark / Flying
Abilities: Insomnia, Super Luck, Prankster
Base stats: 60 HP / 85 Atk / 42 Def / 85 SpA / 42 SpD / 91 Spe
Murkrow is often an overwhelming force in XY Little Cup, with its impressive 19 Speed and potent offensive prowess from both the physical and special sides of dealing damage. The Fairy-types that came with the wave of new XY Pokemon would appear to hold Murkrow back due to their offensive and defensive advantage against the Dark type, but Murkrow's Flying-type STAB, combined with the fact that there are no Fairy-types that resist Flying in Little Cup, makes this a lot less significant than it may initally come across. Murkrow's ability to have +1 priority on all its non-damaging moves make it additionally formidable (this includes Roost for recovery,
parafusion, Substitute to take advantage of switches, etc), its sheer versatility lets it reliably run one of a myriad of strong sets, and it also possesses enough brute strength to easily mow down and 2HKO even its most relied on checks and so-called counters. Its weakness to Stealth Rock is a pain for it, and its defenses leave much to be desired, but
you have to be able to hit it for this to matter this is not enough to balance out the huge threat that Murkrow is offensively. Let's take a closer look at Murkrow's capabilities on the battlefield:
Life Orb MixKrow
Murkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Insomnia
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 80 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Dark Pulse
This is, without question, the most threatening set that Murkrow can run. The 120 Base Power STAB attack in Brave Bird is an absolute nuke in Little Cup coming off an Attack stat of 18 and backed by the boost provided by Life Orb.
Very little can expect to take two hits from this attack and survive to be able to do anything, and this makes switching into Murkrow absurdly problematic. Sucker Punch is not just a strong physical STAB Dark-type attack, but it also hits with +1 priority and beats out potential revenge killers before they can attack Murkrow with +1 priority attacks of their own, and Steel's loss of its Dark resistance this generation makes this even more reliable than it was in BW Little Cup. Steel-types still resist Flying though, and this might have actually balanced Murkrow a bit if it didn't also have access to Heat Wave to roast them with. HP Grass allows Murkrow to get a significant hit on Flying-type resists of other types (Chinchou and Rock-types) that may try to switch in to take the Brave Bird. Below are some calculations that reflect how overwhelming Murkrow is:
(thanks to
blizzardy for gathering these in advance ♥)
This is Murkrow's damage against Eviolite Chinchou, which is considered one of the most reliable checks to Murkrow:
84 SpA Life Orb Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Eviolite Chinchou: 9-12 (37.5 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Eviolite Chinchou: 13-17 (54.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is Murkrow's Brave Bird hitting Eviolite Spritzee, arguably Little Cup's most reliable bulky support Pokemon, with maxed physical bulk:
236 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 13-17 (48.1 - 62.9%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO
This is Murkrow's damage against Eviolite Archen, a "reliable Flying resist":
236 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Archen: 9-12 (40.9 - 54.5%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
84 SpA Life Orb Murkrow Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Eviolite Archen: 9-13 (40.9 - 59%) -- 88.7% chance to 2HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Archen: 13-17 (59 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The funny thing is that all these calculations are done without even including hazard damage, which makes dealing with Murkrow (and switching into it) even more of a pain. Players often have to just let it kill something and then bring in a check, which is often a Chinchou planning to use Volt Switch in a desperate attempt to regain momentum as Murkrow switches out, knowing that it will take huge damage and potentially faint if it stays in. For Murkrow's "checks" that run Berry Juice instead of Eviolite, they get
ONE safety net and a momentum shift in their favor if they switch into Murkrow with decent health, and then they are doomed by the next time they run into Murkrow in the same match. Magnemite commonly runs Berry Juice instead of Eviolite now, and as mentioned previously, it does not resist Dark, so it is no longer a problem at all for Murkrow; its team only needs to run one layer of hazards to break Sturdy, which is very common and standard for many teams (Stealth Rock) and is therefore not difficult to achieve.
Some might argue that Murkrow's high-powered offense in Brave Bird limits it due to the recoil it takes by using it, and they may try to make a point that the more damage Murkrow does with this move, the more damage it does to itself, and while this is fundamentally true, not only do some players opt to run Roost as one of the many variants of offensive Murkrow sets there are, but some Murkrow users actually run Berry Juice to alleviate the Brave Bird recoil without using up a turn with Roost and risking taking a hard hit. Thief can be used with this set to steal an item after having consumed Berry Juice. Murkrow's power is notably decreased without Life Orb, but with hazards, the longevity provided to Murkrow by using Berry Juice can let it spam Brave Bird a lot more freely, and can be even more devastating to opponents than the Life Orb set for this reason.
Substitute Murkrow
Murkrow @ Eviolite / Berry Juice
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SDef / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
- Roost / Heat Wave
What might appear to some users to be a watered-down offensive version of Murkrow, this set actually works to
take full advantage of Murkrow's ability to force switches. Nobody wants to have a Pokemon die to Murkrow if they know they'll need it later to keep another foe in check, and this fact alone gives Murkrow ample opportunities to set up a Substitute and make itself impervious to damage and status (with minor exceptions being sound-based moves and Pokemon with Infiltrator ability, which are relatively uncommon) until its Substitute is broken by a direct damage-dealing attack. After Murkrow successfully sets up a Substitute, it finds itself in a very powerful position. It can, in most cases, attack at least twice with Brave Bird at that point without being hit by enemies, which lets it really dish out pain. It can also Roost off damage comfortably at that point without worrying about taking damage afterward. Last, but certainly not least, it makes Sucker Punch a 100% safe and reliable attack, as the only way Sucker Punch can fail is if its target uses a move that cannot break the Substitute, meaning that Murkrow's shield will remain intact until they use something that makes Sucker Punch able to hit them. This is a very manipulative approach that has much more reward than risk and is quite overpowered in my objective view; it is a scary thing to have to face and it will almost always wreak unstoppable and irreversible havoc in the hands of a skilled player.
Parafusion/SwagPlay Murkrow
Murkrow @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 120 Def / 192 Spd
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Swagger
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave / Roost
- Foul Play / Roost
Speaking of skill, you won't find much of it here in this set. A troll's dream and an unlucky competitive player's nightmare, this set aims to overwhelm the opposition with luck by pushing the numbers (praying to the hax gods) to get favor from the RNG. As if the combination of moves here wasn't broken enough already, the fact that Murkrow has the Prankster ability and STAB on Foul Play makes this what is widely considered to be the most rage-inducing set for any player to face in Little Cup. Here are some calculations, gathered by
blizzardy, to reflect Murkrow's Foul Play damage output against its enemies:
+2 0 Atk Murkrow Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 11-13 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Murkrow Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Eviolite Chinchou: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Murkrow Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Tirtouga: 18-22 (85.7 - 104.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Murkrow Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Archen: 22-27 (100 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 Atk Murkrow Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 60 Def Eviolite Stunky: 9-11 (40.9 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Murkrow Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 9-11 (42.8 - 52.3%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
Again, this is without hazard damage. You have a 50% chance per turn to hit yourself in confusion with a 40 Base Power attack at +2 (or higher if you've been hit more than once with Swagger), and being paralyzed comes with an additional 25% chance per turn of not being able to move. Murkrow can easily set up a Substitute or heal off damage with Roost during this hax storm or while the opponent switches out to rid its active Pokemon of confusion, and
if the player's active Pokemon is not beating itself to death, it's being plowed down by its own power anyway when STAB Foul Play hits it at +2 (or higher). Not only is this completely and utterly broken, but it is too greatly dependent upon luck and is the most uncompetitive thing Little Cup could possibly have to tolerate. If this set had something to balance it, like low Speed and no Prankster, no access to recovery, or just anything, it might not be so bad. But with all of these moves and capabilities together, it's an abomination.
LucKrow
Murkrow @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 80 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave / Substitute / Roost
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Substitute / Roost
Another coinflip-reliant set, but one with a much more immediate payoff, is this set, which gives a largely increased chance of getting a critical hit with XY's new crit rate mechanics, which can be found by
clicking here. With Super Luck as the ability and Scope Lens as the item (Razor Claw does the same thing and will also work), Murkrow's critical hit rate becomes +2 and makes
all of its attacks have a 50% chance to get critical hits. Critical hits from any attack Murkrow has deal more damage than they would with Life Orb and also have no item recoil. In addition, critical hits retain their ability to negate any defensive boosts that the foe has attained as well as Reflect and Light Screen. This set is a lot less often seen the others, but it does exist and it will batter you to death if the coinflips are not in your favor. The scary part is that it still dishes out formidable damage without getting critical hits, so it's not like you're super safe even if you're lucky.
Additional Comments
It should go without saying that all of Murkrow's sets other than the Life Orb MixKrow set have the added advantage of being able to bluff that set, as it is easily the most offensively conventional and powerful set and is also the most common. Due to its overwhelming power, players often anticipate the Life Orb set and decide that it's not worth the risk to think otherwise, at least at first.
Murkrow's support capabilities are often overlooked because it is first and foremost an offensive threat, but it can reliably do much more than just Roost, set up Substitute, and status the enemy. Firstly,
Murkrow is the only Pokemon in the game to have both Prankster and Haze, making it able to stop any setup sweeper under any circumstances, and this includes Baton Pass chains. Secondly, like many Flying-types, Murkrow gets Defog for removing hazards and screens; this move is incompatible with Prankster due to being only available to Murkrow via DPP, but Murkrow's 19 Speed almost guarantees it to get Defog off first anyway. Other usable options available to Murkrow that are compatible with Prankster include Feather Dance, Psych Up, Calm Mind, Taunt, and Tailwind. It even gets Sunny Day and Rain Dance to allow it to get weather up with Prankster for weather-based teams. This is just to show that Murkrow's versatility is certainly not limited to offensive and luck-forcing tactics.
A lot of players and users may argue that Murkrow is somewhat balanced in its metagame presence because it is too frail to switch into very much, apart from Foongus (if running Insomnia) and predicted incoming Ground- or Psychic-type attacks. While it's true that Murkrow's defenses don't really allow it switch-in opportunities, the fact remains that Murkrow doesn't need to do this to be effective. Murkrow is not designed to tank hits, just as Slowpoke is not designed to be fast. Does Slowpoke need to go first to be effective? No. It is the strengths of a Pokemon that make them what they are and give them the relevant influence they exert on the metagame, and this is especially true when one is at a high viability ranking like Murkrow is, and should be unquestionably true now that Murkrow is being suspected. Murkrow is both a user of brute force and a manipulator, and its ability to steamroll the opponent and/or practically puppeteer momentum for itself after getting in more than makes up for its inability to switch into attacks.
One other thing: I'm not going to use "speed ties" as a pro-ban argument for Murkrow and anyone who does is not thinking clearly. There are several Pokemon that reach 19 Speed and using Misdreavus as the only remaining comparison is annoying and objectively misleading to people who don't know better.
1) Is Murkrow broken?
Absolutely. Murkrow is a relentless torturer with too many tools and not enough drawbacks to balance it. Pretty much nothing can switch into the Life Orb MixKrow set, and it can be checked, but not countered. I'd say that, given my points above on what Murkrow is capable of, its overwhelming power and versatility certainly make it broken and I strongly believe that it should be banned.
2) Is Murkrow making Little Cup not fun?
If you ask a troll, they are likely to tell you no. If you ask a player who likes being able to make a team without Chinchou, Archen, or Substitute Elekid/Voltorb, they will probably tell you yes. The limitations Murkrow places on teambuilding are too much, and Murkrow actually defines a large part of what is viable and what isn't viable in Little Cup. I find that it makes the tier not fun.
3) Is a combination of 1 and 2 deterring individuals from playing Little Cup?
I know this is a bold statement, but I'm going to say it anyway: Murkrow's existence has honestly been deterring people from playing Little Cup since BW, and this is something I knew before I even became active in this community. XY did not bring enough limitations or drawbacks to Murkrow to make it balanced enough for competitive play in this tier, and now that I have the chance to get it banned, I want it gone. I am 100% sure that Murkrow turns people away from playing Little Cup.
Meditite
Type: Fighting / Psychic
Abilities: Pure Power, Telepathy
Base stats: 30 HP / 40 Atk / 55 Def / 40 SpA / 55 SpD / 60 Spe
Meditite is one of the handful of Pokemon that were unbanned and released into Little Cup at the dawn of XY, and is quite a force to be reckoned with. Its offensive potential appears rather lackluster at first glance, but after applying its Pure Power ability, you'll find that its Attack stat is automatically doubled. With an Adamant nature, this ability gives Meditite a whopping 28 Attack stat right off the bat, which is insanely high by Little Cup standards where most Pokemon are lucky if they even reach 18 or 19 Attack. Meditite's potent STAB Fighting/Psychic attacking combination lets it powerfully exert its Pure Power on a large part of the metagame, and it even gets Drain Punch for recovery in the process. It has access to Fake Out, Bullet Punch, and all three elemental punches. Despite having its STAB attacks walled by Psychic-types, despite its middling 16 Speed, and despite sometimes finding it hard to fit all the moves it wants all on one set, Meditite maintains its position as one of the most feared attackers in XY Little Cup. But the question is:
In the current metagame, is it really banworthy?
Standard Meditite
Meditite @ Eviolite
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 156 Def / 156 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Punch / Poison Jab
- Fake Out
This is the most common set Meditite runs; it is less offensively potent than many of the others, but can take hits notably better with the added bulk provided to it by Eviolite. Its massive 28 Attack stat allows it to punch huge holes in the opposition with Drain Punch and Zen Headbutt, which will result in an easy OHKO in most cases against anything they score super effective hits against. Thunder Punch allows Meditite to 2HKO Slowpoke, a common switch-in to Meditite, and Poison Jab is an option for getting a hard hit against Spritzee, a Pokemon that can also give Meditite problems otherwise. Fake Out deals surprising damage backed by Pure Power and can be useful for dealing chip damage to secure a KO and also for picking off weakened threats (this is especially helpful against faster ones). Unfortunately, Meditite's standard approach here only uses 12 Speed. This set packs a punch for sure, but let's have a look at how many Pokemon can wall it or outright beat it:
Exeggcute walls this set with ease if Meditite opts to use Thunder Punch instead of Poison Jab. From there, Exeggcute can make use of this huge defensive advantage to hit Meditite or its switch-in replacement with Sleep Powder or Leech Seed. Exeggcute's 60/80 physical bulk, backed by Oran + Harvest and Leech Seed recovery, is impressive and its typing is pretty much designed for walling this set, if Poison Jab is not used.
Slowpoke, on the other hand, walls this set with ease if Meditite opts to use Poison Jab instead of Thunder Punch. From there, Slowpoke can threaten Meditite with Scald or cripple it or its switch-in replacement with Thunder Wave or Yawn. Slowpoke's 90/65 physical bulk, with Regenerator to boot, is impressive and can take good advantage of Meditite with this set if it doesn't have Thunder Punch.
Spritzee can easily take on standard Meditite if it opts to use Thunder Punch and not Poison Jab. Meditite won't like taking a STAB super effective Moonblast either. From there, Spritzee can perform its support duties for itself and/or its team with no sweat, because Meditite won't be able to take it down, and switching out would give Spritzee a free turn it could use. The sheer popularity Spritzee already has without countering Meditite is only complemented further by this fact.
Baltoy walls this entire set, no matter which attacks are chosen. An often overlooked Pokemon in Little Cup, its typing is designed perfectly to wall this set. It isn't capable of much offensively, but it can do many important things with the free turn it gets after meeting Meditite. It can use Rapid Spin to rid its team of hazards, it can lay its own hazard down on the opponent's side of the field with Stealth Rock, it has access to Trick for crippling the switch-in with a Choice item while stealing their preferred item in the process, and it also gets dual screens. This is a supporter that can take full advantage of standard Meditite very easily.
Drowzee is largely overlooked as a Wish passer despite its great bulk and survivability, but with Meditite around, Drowzee can comfortably come in against it and do its work. Drowzee can also threaten switch-ins with Thunder Wave or Toxic and has a vast movepool apart from that. For more information on Drowzee as a Wish passer, be sure to read my post in dcae's "Berry Juice vs Eviolite - The Right Choice" thread by
clicking here. It's thoughtlessly considered a "gimmick" only because people are so scared of Knock Off. Meditite doesn't have it.
Elgyem can take this set on without a problem. It has Recover to heal off damage at will, it walls both of Meditite's STABs, and can threaten Meditite with a super effective Shadow Ball. Elgyem can take advantage of Meditite switching out by crippling the switch-in replacement with Thunder Wave. Its Psychic attack deals solid damage backed by STAB and Analytic ability (which also applies on switches), and HP Fighting backed by Analytic ability lets it easily OHKO Pawniard on the switch-in even if it has Eviolite.
Honedge absolutely destroys standard Meditite. The ghost sword's immunity to Fighting and resistance to Psychic allow it to wall it dutifully with its impressive physically defensive presence. It is also immune to Fake Out and Poison Jab, and it takes negligible damage from Thunder Punch. In return, Honedge can severely hurt Meditite with Shadow Claw, pick it off with Shadow Sneak, or take advantage of the free turn it gains by forcing Meditite to switch by setting up with Autotomize or Swords Dance. Meditite would need Fire Punch to get around this thing on its own, and it would have to limit its other options by carrying it.
Wynaut is a complete and total stop to this set, bar nothing. Wynaut traps Meditite with Shadow Tag so that it cannot escape, and uses Counter repeatedly to beat Meditite to death. The fact that Wynaut walls both of Meditite's STABs is just icing on the cake. Meditite would need Baton Pass to escape Wynaut and safely switch out to a teammate, and it would have to limit its other options by carrying it.
Note that these are all counters.
COUNTERS. Murkrow doesn't have anything close to a list like this.
These Pokemon can switch in comfortably given the conditions made possible by Meditite's standard set and either force Meditite out, take advantage of its presence, make it miserable, or kill it off. That's not even counting the amount of Pokemon in the tier that can check it and force it out. I'll get to that now:
Misdreavus wrecks Meditite's shit with STAB Shadow Ball, and although it only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO if it has Eviolite at full health, one layer of Spikes bolsters that chance to 93.8%, and it's not like Meditite would want to stick around either way. Misdreavus can switch in on a predicted Drain Punch, but apart from that it can't be considered a counter, as it takes too much damage from Zen Headbutt on the switch-in. Missy's immunity to Fake Out also means there won't be any chip damage happening against it and it won't be picked off by it at low health. Nonetheless, Meditite won't be walking around like it owns the place as long as Misdreavus is around, and giving Misdreavus a free Nasty Plot boost is definitely not the best idea in Little Cup.
Gastly handles Meditite the exact same way Misdreavus does, down to the damage output from Shadow Ball. The only difference is that Gastly is even more of a liability as a switch-in than Misdreavus is, because Zen Headbutt is a clean OHKO against it and it won't like taking Thunder Punch either. With just a little prior damage, Meditite won't be able to stomach a Shadow Ball from Gastly and would be foolish to stay in against it.
Snubbull is 2HKOed by Poison Jab and has a small chance of being 2HKOed by Zen Headbutt after Intimidate is applied to Meditite, so it can't be listed as a counter. However, this thing can definitely force Meditite out if it comes in after a teammate faints or as a result of a slow U-turn/Volt Switch/Parting Shot/Baton Pass. Play Rough has an 81.3% chance to OHKO Meditite at full health, and Snubbull also has Thunder Wave to cripple switch-ins. That's not to mention Snubbull's access to powerful coverage moves as well, such as Earthquake and Close Combat.
Taillow outspeeds and easily OHKOs Meditite with Brave Bird when statused if using the Guts + Toxic/Flame Orb set. Protect not only lets the Orb kick in without taking damage, but it also blocks Fake Out if Meditite is just coming in (i.e. both Meditite and Taillow are in the lead position). Taillow can also knock Meditite out with Air Slash if it uses Choice Specs, as it commonly holds for its new Boomburst set, with a little prior damage; it deals the same amount as Misdreavus/Gastly's Shadow Ball, almost kills it from full health but it narrowly survives. Taillow can capitalize on predicted switches by maintaining momentum with U-turn.
Itemless Fletchling has an 81.3% chance to OHKO standard Meditite with Acrobatics, and this is generally not a gamble that Meditite users are comfortable taking. Fletchling can take advantage of this forced switch by either maintaining momentum with U-turn or setting up with Swords Dance. +2 STAB Acrobatics from itemless Fletchling is definitely not something to take lightly.
Life Orb Meditite
Meditite @ Life Orb
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 76 Def / 196 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch / High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Punch / Poison Jab
- Fake Out / Bullet Punch / High Jump Kick
This is Meditite's second most commonly used set, one with the same general coverage, notably more power, and a lot more vulnerability to damage than the Eviolite set. Drain Punch really helps out here for regaining health lost to Life Orb recoil, and High Jump Kick backed by STAB and Pure Power is an absolute nuke. This set has 15 Speed. The same counters and checks apply for this set but with a few changes:
1.
Spritzee is now 2HKOed by Zen Headbutt
2.
Drowzee now has a high chance of being 2HKOed by Poison Jab or Thunder Punch
3.
Elgyem now has an 11.3% chance of being 2HKOed by High Jump Kick
4.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by Spritzee's Moonblast
5.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by Honedge's Shadow Claw
6.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by Misdreavus's and Gastly's Shadow Ball
7.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by Snubbull's Play Rough
8.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by Specs Taillow's Air Slash
9.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by itemless Fletchling's Acrobatics without boosts
10.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by Elgyem's Analytic-boosted Shadow Ball
11.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by Offensive Cottonee's Dazzling Gleam
12.
Meditite is now always OHKOed by Abra's Shadow Ball or Dazzling Gleam
Meditite tears up the metagame with a Life Orb equipped... that's unquestionable and I'm not denying that. What I am pointing out is that with this many checks and counters available, and with this set only having 15 Speed, I am not understanding what is so difficult about dealing with it. It looks to me like Meditite will do an awful lot more switching out than actually attacking, and that's often what it does for it to be able to stay alive and function throughout battles, and this means two things: hazard damage is important and so is taking advantage of free turns provided by Meditite when it switches out. It leaves more openings for its opponent than it leaves for its own team in many cases simply because
there's so much that keeps Meditite in check. Look at the above lists again. How can something banworthy have a list of checks and counters that's this extensive?
Choice Scarf Meditite
Meditite @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 196 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Trick
- High Jump Kick
If Meditite's middling Speed is a concern (and it often is or should be), this can be remedied by equipping a Choice Scarf. It should be noted that this set has the same damage output as the standard set, only with High Jump Kick added. Jolly nature can be used instead of Adamant to outspeed +1 Scraggy, but apart from that it doesn't help very much and makes Meditite's overall offense even weaker than the Eviolite set. Trick is a nice touch that allows Meditite to cripple a troublesome switch-in for the remainder of the match, and can also steal Eviolite or Berry Juice for its own benefit. High Jump Kick sweeps with Choice Scarf are incredible after the opposing Ghost-type(s) have been eliminated, and this can be quite devastating late-game.
While this set is definitely powerful, Fighting and Psychic are not the best types of attacks to lock yourself into, with all the Ghost- and Dark-type Pokemon roaming around the tier. If anything,
you're bound to be giving something a free switch into an attack it takes zero damage from, and this creates a rather significant liability that opponents can capitalize on with minimal effort. Choice Scarf also does not save Meditite from itemless Fletchling's Gale Wings Acrobatics, which will bring it down easily and without it getting to retaliate. I find this to be very powerful if left unchecked but rather easy to play around if you know what you're doing.
Additional Comments
This is the first time I have actually defended something that made it to the suspect stage, so I'll do my best to summarize why I feel that Meditite is not banworthy and should stay in Little Cup, at least for right now:
1. Sub-par Speed
The thing that allows many strong attackers the potential to really do well in the metagame is reaching a decent Speed tier. Meditite's Speed is actually considered so insignificant that none of its sets even run its maximum Speed stat of 16, so I know for a fact that players already acknowledge this problem. This leaves Meditite open to be hit hard by numerous checks and counters and it's not the best at taking random neutral hits either. The only way to patch up its disappointing Speed is to give it a Choice Scarf and lock into something that is bound to hit an immunity sometime. I wouldn't really call that an advantage in most cases, but I guess it depends on what the player considers important. Nonetheless, Meditite's Speed is a significant flaw that helps balance it.
2. Severe 4MSS (4-Moveslot Syndrome)
I would be much more inclined to label Meditite broken if it could actually carry more than four moves. The simple fact that it is limited to four moves in its moveset REALLY holds it back. It absolutely needs Baton Pass or Wynaut beats it 100% of the time; it absolutely needs Fire Punch to get around Honedge without giving a free turn. Meditite wants to run Thunder Punch and Poison Jab on the same set SO BADLY but it can't. If it doesn't run a Fighting-type attack, it gets trampled by Scraggy. If it doesn't run a Psychic-type attack, it gets bullied by bulky Poison-types. If it doesn't run Thunder Punch, Slowpoke has a field day with it, and if it doesn't run Poison Jab, Exeggcute and Spritzee laugh at it in most cases. The Little Cup community needs to come to the realization of just how limited Meditite really is by 4MSS. I honestly don't see how it even gained enough votes to be suspected when I consider how hurtful this drawback actually is to Meditite's performance.
3. Meditite Promotes Variety in Little Cup
There, I said it. With the introduction of the new and improved Knock Off, tons of Pokemon in Little Cup plummeted in viability, and the main group of Pokemon this affected was Psychic-types. They're good against Fighting-types, right? Well, just about all of them carry Knock Off now. The fact that Meditite's STABs are both resisted by Psychic-types is the keystone that keeps Psychic-types in the picture that is XY Little Cup. Meditite is a very strong Pokemon that has advantages against a lot of other Pokemon, and I acknowledge that, but it does not limit strategy and options the way Tangela did, or the way Sneasel did. If anything, Meditite actually makes a lot of Pokemon viable, whereas Murkrow makes a lot of Pokemon unusable. It's one thing to limit the teambuilding of a ton of Pokemon, and it's another thing to actually promote healthiness in the tier, and that's exactly what Meditite does. Wynaut and Honedge would be considered for teamslots a lot less if Meditite's existence didn't make them important, and Exeggcute wouldn't even be thought about. Getting rid of Meditite would cause an entire group of Pokemon to lose their niche and honestly their whole reason for seeing usage in the current metagame, which would further restrict the variety of this tier and that is not something I want to have happen, not when this Pokemon isn't even overwhelming to the tier; its list of checks and counters is extensive enough to keep it from getting out of hand, I believe.
I can't wait to hear the pro-ban arguments for Meditite. That's all I have to say about that.
1) Is Meditite broken?
Absolutely not. It is very powerful, but it has significant enough drawbacks to balance it out, and it has too many checks and counters for it be an overwhelming force in Little Cup.
2) Is Meditite making Little Cup not fun?
I don't think so. I like having it around because I think it brings balance to the tier. ♥
3) Is a combination of 1 and 2 deterring individuals from playing Little Cup?
I don't see why or how it could, considering all the ways Meditite interacts with the Little Cup environment. I think that anyone who is deterred from Little Cup by Meditite in the current metagame is looking at things through a foggy lens and has not stopped to analyze things. I don't mean to patronize but I honestly do not see what the big deal is. To my knowledge, Meditite is not deterring individuals from Little Cup; I've never had someone complain to me about it like I have Yanma or Swirlix or Gligar.
Thank you for reading.
