XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[radianthero156]

wtf did i read?

basically mew is the god of the metagame, i believe there should be a Mew-rank placed above S-rank because mew is too good even for that. it excells in ALL of the roles in competitive pokemon (pivot, tank, utility, lurer, special wall, physical wall, special sweeper, physical sweeper) with its really good stats and MONSTER movepool.

actually, the amount of effort needed in order to break the relatively simple specially defensive taunt - knock off - wow - roost set itself alone is enough reason why mew is an S rank mon, under the argument that it walls a HUGE amount of the metagame (basically everything barring mega houndoom). THEN it has a smeargle like movepool which allows it to run SD colbur, np 3 attacks, explosion, trick, defog, sr, baton pass, whatever. you simply dont counter mew, it's mew who counters you.

 

[Bouff]

there's not much i can really say that ernesto and rh156 haven't already said, but i'd like to point out a few things.


First off, Stallbreaker Mew is entirely viable without a STAB move, as it can run Knock Off > Psyshock to cripple mons like Nido, making it even harder to take down. An alternate spread with 96 speed (i think with timid? idk i can't remember tbh) to outspeed King, and I'm pretty sure Mew outspeeds Queen regardless so it can just heal off the damage from the switch in.

Second off, you're right on the fact that it can't take Knock Offs well, but it can heal off the damage from the fastest Knock Off in the tier (from Mien) on the same turn it gets its item knocked off, thus letting it take another one and either heal again, or just flat out burn it, and then the other common Knock Off users like bulky Krook and Esca, can just be flat out burned.

 

[DaKakz]

^
This thing is the only thing that scares me along with Victini when I see it on team preview due to it's ridiculous unpredictability, it's like the Mega Charizards in OU or the Mega Mewtwos in Ubers as in you can never guess which set it is running until it is too late (note that both Charizard and Mewtwo are S in the viability thread of their own tiers) you can bring Florges predicting a special attack only to be tricked a Choice Scarf/Band, you can bring Slowbro predicting a physical attack only to be hit by a Shadow Ball or Giga Drain, you can bring Xatu predicting Stealth Rocks or WoW only to have it Baton Pass a boost. In other words, you can never successfully predict Mew and by the time you knew what kind of set it is running, Mew would have already accomplished it's job (setting up Stealth Rocks, Tricking walls, burning physical threats...)

Mew should definitely stay S-rank due to it having no Pokemon that can safely switch in or counter all of it's possible sets.

From the OP:

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Mew perfectly fits this description.

^
To be honest Slowbro is not the perfect physical wall that everybody imagines it to be, while it has an amazing ability in regenerator and great bulk with it's 95/110/80 stats it can only wall a small portion of the tier's most dangerous physical attacking threats, let's take a look at some calcs featuring the bro against UU's stop threats:

252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 258-306 (65.4 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 238-282 (60.4 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 218-257 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Absol Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 174-206 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 242-283 (61.4 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, Slowbro gives most of these popular and viable threats' free Moxie boosts or free kills when it's supposed to protect it's team from them.

Quoting the OP again:

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Out of the many physical threats of A- to S viability, it can only wall Darmanitan, Mega Aerodactyl and Metagross while Mienshao, Mega Absol and Cloyster still have a chance to beat it! I wouldn't call that a Pokemon that can wall a significant portion of the metagame with little support.

Still, Slowbro is a great Pokemon with a great ability and coverage but I just think it doesn't fit the description of an S Rank in UU as demonstrated above.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Even though I think Mew should be A ranked, I can definitely understand why others want it S ranked.

And I would still choose a STAB Psychic or Psyshock over Knock off in most circumstances just for consistency. Knock Off has great utility, but being able to beat Nido's and damage pokes such as Amoong is always a plus.

 

[psVoltage]

While mew can run may sets and be versatile it is mainly used as a stallbreaker/ Defogger/ Nido check (but it can be shaky) I think that Mew COULD be S ranked but I think that it would be better off A or A+ at the moment.

For the sake of not being a complete parrot I'll explain just a little. Mew can't handle many of the top threats on its own (See Darmanitan, Suicune, Victini Ect.) It still is a extremely good pokemon, just doesn't fit the S ranking description as well as some others.
I noticed also that the s rank is pretty barren now haha

 

[DaKakz]

^
Actually, a little bit high on the ladder I have seen a lot of specially defensive Mew with Taunt and Toxic/WoW used to easily shut down CroCune, as for Victini the phyisicall defensive Mew variant only is 3HKO'd by Scarf Victini's V-Create so it can heal off the damage until Victini is at -2 Defense where Mew can safely Knock Off to OHKO it after Stealth Rock.

Darmanitan can actually cause problems for the wall sets but Scarf Mew can easily revenge kill it.

But the point is even if it cannot defeat that many foes with just one set, it's sheer unpredictability is what makes it fit the description of an S-rank 'mon.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I'm always torn between Taunt or Defog on Mew. I don't think we have the greatest spinner, and two of the best Defoggers went up to OU :[

 

[pokemonisfun]

^
This thing is the only thing that scares me along with Victini when I see it on team preview due to it's ridiculous unpredictability, it's like the Mega Charizards in OU or the Mega Mewtwos in Ubers as in you can never guess which set it is running until it is too late (note that both Charizard and Mewtwo are S in the viability thread of their own tiers) you can bring Florges predicting a special attack only to be tricked a Choice Scarf/Band, you can bring Slowbro predicting a physical attack only to be hit by a Shadow Ball or Giga Drain, you can bring Xatu predicting Stealth Rocks or WoW only to have it Baton Pass a boost. In other words, you can never successfully predict Mew and by the time you knew what kind of set it is running, Mew would have already accomplished it's job (setting up Stealth Rocks, Tricking walls, burning physical threats...)

Mew should definitely stay S-rank due to it having no Pokemon that can safely switch in or counter all of it's possible sets.

From the OP:



Mew perfectly fits this description.

^
To be honest Slowbro is not the perfect physical wall that everybody imagines it to be, while it has an amazing ability in regenerator and great bulk with it's 95/110/80 stats it can only wall a small portion of the tier's most dangerous physical attacking threats, let's take a look at some calcs featuring the bro against UU's stop threats:

252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 258-306 (65.4 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 238-282 (60.4 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 218-257 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Absol Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 174-206 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 242-283 (61.4 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, Slowbro gives most of these popular and viable threats' free Moxie boosts or free kills when it's supposed to protect it's team from them.

Quoting the OP again:



Out of the many physical threats of A- to S viability, it can only wall Darmanitan, Mega Aerodactyl and Metagross while Mienshao, Mega Absol and Cloyster still have a chance to beat it! I wouldn't call that a Pokemon that can wall a significant portion of the metagame with little support.

Still, Slowbro is a great Pokemon with a great ability and coverage but I just think it doesn't fit the description of an S Rank in UU as demonstrated above.

You literally picked a bunch of Pokemon who have like the highest base attacks in the tier and gave them STAB super effective moves (except Victini which you gave a Band and the strongest possible non STAB super effective move). Yeah big whoop Slowbro can get 2hko by them.

Frankly I agree Slowbro is A rank or somewhere around there but I don't think those calculations paint an accurate picture.

Not to mention that Slowbro will be surviving the hit, invariably, bar crits and live to wall some other weaker attacker because regenerator much of the time.

 

[Limitless]

Ernesto edit: Nice Umbreon pronunciation, nub .–.

 

[KM]

I've already stated my thoughts on Suicune, and I'll state my thoughts on Mega-Blastoise tomorrow (It's getting late over here), but I wanted to quickly address another poke - Krookodile.

Many of you have probably seen Krookodile on a number of top teams on the ladder, and it's definitely something to watch out for. There are a number of qualities that make Krookodile an amazing poke, and I'm going to touch on just a couple of them.

1. Dual Immunities - I can't stress how important this is. Although psychic and electric aren't the most likely types to be locked in to, the ability to cockblock volt switches, thunderbolts, psyshocks, zen heatbutt, bolt strike, etc is very handy. Combine with with Intimidate and you have a freaking amazing pivot that can come in on a lot of stuff and threaten it out. The only other poke I can think of with dual immunities off the top of my head is Flygon, and that's practically the only thing keeping him being used.

2. Versatility - While Krook isn't quite as versatile as Mew, he's certainly up there. I'm personally a fan of the fully defensive set with Lefties, Intimidate, Taunt/SR/Knock Off/EQ, because the damage output it has combined with the tankiness and utility is pretty unprecedented, and he's a good answer to basically every common lead. However, Krook can also run a very effective Moxie Sweeper set as well - walls coming in have to be afraid of STAB knock off for both the damage and the loss of an item. Finally, I've seen xMarth (I think so, at least) run an offensive LO Krookodile with Intimidate, which is just a freaking awesome offensive pivot that catches a lot of people off guard - when people see Intimidate, they don't expect the crazy damage output and coverage that Krook can dish out.

3. Movepool - Even with all of Krook's respective niches, he can run a variety of moves. Stone Edge, Earthquake, Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Taunt, Dragon Tail, and perhaps even more are all viable options, and any combination of them (practically) can create a good and well-rounded set. There are very few things that can safely switch into Krook, and those that can risk getting phazed out or losing their item.

In summary, Krook should be at least A, probably A+.

 

[Swamp Link]

I agree that Krookodile is a really good Pokemon. It can run a number of different sets well. The defensive set is extremely bulky and has access to nice support moves like SR and Taunt, and is a reliable utility Pokemon that can remove items and be a good physical wall. For perspective, it's bulkier than Hippowdon with Intimidate.

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 135-160 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- 53.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 157-186 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Obviously Hippowdon gets the edge overall for survivability because of Slack Off, but Krookodile's Speed and access to Intimidate for team support are great. Then it has a Scarf set that's gotten way better with the change in generation because of Knock Off. While Moxie Krookodile struggled to sweep late game last generation, Knock Off is just an awesome for cleaning late game, and Krookodile is in general a very effective sweeper. Scarf Pursuit is nice with Pokemon like Victini being massive threats, and Earthquake is a solid cleaning move.

I also ran a goofy Offensive Stealth Rock set with Life Orb and Intimidate, similar to the one Kitten Milk talked about. It's surprisingly effective, and it works well as a mix of the other two sets. Overall, Krookodile is a great scarfer, defensive pokemon, and has the versatility and unpredictableness to be more threatening.

 

[EonX]

Ok, going to cover Suicune and Mega-Blastoise. Would also cover Krookodile, but I simply don't have experience with it to form a viable argument one way or the other:

Suicune: I think A+ is pretty good. If you don't have a way to beat Suicune, you're fucked. However, it has a fairly major issue; Slowbro. Slowbro can not only give it competition as a bulky Water-type in general, but also as a win-con for stall teams. CM Slowbro is able to double up by not only handling some top physical attackers like Mienshao, Darmanitan, and Victini, but it can also utilize Regenerator to slowly get itself back in shape to sweep late-game. As for Suicune, it has to use Rest to get back in shape for sweeping late-game. Not only that, but a quick CB Bolt Strike, Reckless HJK, or repeated U-turns will have much more of an impact on Suicune who can't passively regain HP via Regenerator. Suicune is definitely something you need to be ready for, but you have to cover for more things if you use it than you would if you used Slowbro. The main advantage Suicune has is the fact it doesn't give two fucks about poison, but considering that Slowbro has some pretty solid synergy with Florges and Umbreon, two of the best clerics in the tier, this usually isn't a major issue; just a mild inconvenience.

Mega-Blastoise: This is a hard one for me. On the one hand, it's arguably the best spinner in the tier. Mega Launcher Dark Pulse screws every Ghost-type in the tier. It has a great Special Attack stat and solid coverage to be able to break down some common defensive Pokemon. However, it has two major drawbacks that make it A rank.
The first being its Speed stat. Sure, it can beat most Ghost-types, but with a lackluster Speed stat and the inability to have any form of healing, even Leftovers, makes it super easy to wear down into KO range of many top attackers. Just a couple of examples: LO Regen Mienshao only needs 26% prior damage to ensure a KO with HJK; an easy feat when factoring in Stealth Rock and a minor hit from most Ghost-types. Choice Scarf Victini needs ~35% prior damage to finish the job with Bolt Strike. Band Victini? a measly 3%. The standard Life Orb Honchkrow needs just 25% prior damage to KO with Brave Bird. Now, you're probably thinking "Eon, these threats aren't Ghost-type. Mega Blaster can spin on them and fulfill it's role. Um, no. So long as there's a Ghost-type of virtually any kind paired with these threats, Mega Blaster is going to be outsped and in KO range of these threats after a single encounter with most Ghost-types. And it should be taking hazard damage because it's job is to spin them away.
Now, the other major issue. Toxic Spikes. It is incredibly vulnerable to Toxic Spikes, and we don't have a lot of good grounded Poison-types in the tier right now. Roserade, Nidoking, and Nidoqueen are about the only three grounded Poison-types. Two of them can viably run Toxic Spikes as well, which makes matters worse as they are at least decently common. Mega Blaster has no recovery of any kind unless it's a defensive RestTalk set, which kinda sucks considering RestTalk and Spin would be near necessities. So, Mega Blaster would go from just losing 12.5% when it comes in to losing 12% a turn. This is just going to lower it into more KO ranges that much faster, making it even harder to spin. Now, is it bad? No. It's about the best bulky spinner we have as it does shit on most Ghost-types easily and is at least able to outpace most walls. However, it can be a bit suboptimal without recovery and the fact that many offensive teams can simply use a Ghost-type to prevent a spin and just get the appropriate faster threat in to pressure it out to prevent the spin ultimately. Compare this with Starmie who can still beat a fair few Ghost-types with the brute force of Hydro Pump and have the Speed to stay in front of a fair few offensive Pokemon (Shao, Darm, Tini, Celebi, etc.) to spin. All of this makes Mega-Blastoise A rank imo. Solid spinner, but it does have some shortcomings that can easily prevent it from doing its job in some situations.

 

[DaKakz]

You literally picked a bunch of Pokemon who have like the highest base attacks in the tier and gave them STAB super effective moves (except Victini which you gave a Band and the strongest possible non STAB super effective move). Yeah big whoop Slowbro can get 2hko by them.

Frankly I agree Slowbro is A rank or somewhere around there but I don't think those calculations paint an accurate picture.

I picked those 'mons because they are the major physical attackers in the tier AKA A- to S ranked physical attacking threats, and showed that it cannot wall most of them because of it's bad defensive psychic type, thus it does not fit the description of an S-Rank 'mon that can wall significant portions of the metagame with little support. I don't see where the problem is ?

It's not that Slowbro is not good enough, it's just unfortunate because as the UU metagame evolved, the most dangerous physical threats turned out to be Dark or Bug types or have strong Electric moves that can muscle their way out against the Bro.

Not to mention that Slowbro will be surviving the hit, invariably, bar crits and live to wall some other weaker attacker because regenerator much of the time.

So you are saying that Slowbro will switch in, live the hit and then switch out to let another 'mon take the second big hit just so it can get a Regenerator boost and live up to tell the tale ? I don't think a physical wall is supposed to sacrifice other teammates just so it can survive...

Anyway, I think you just misunderstood the point I was trying to make with those calcs above, I wasn't showing that Slowbro cannot take hits that it obvously cannot take, I was showing that it cannot wall half of the most dangerous physical threats thus it does not deserve the S-Rank it has.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Slowbro is S because it can check nearly every physical attacker in the tier while keeping itself healthy just by switching out. This also allows it to scout for potentially dangerous moves such as victini choice band bolt strike with little problems. Slowbro also makes an excellent win condition for stall with calm mind and is one of the few hard stop to the standard sleep talk suicune. Suicune is S because it can setup on nearly the entire metagame and due to the lack of physical electrics and grasses its nearly impossible to break through after even a single calm mind boost. With roar instead of sleep talk it can even beat cm slowbro while being able to have some utility early game.

 

[Jellied Eels]

I'm not sure how it should influence its ranking but I just wanted to say that Mega Blastoise is a centerpiece of Sticky Web teams rn considering its speed, bulk, power and access to Rapid Spin. The fact that it has pseudo STAB on Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse means that teams that don't run Florges but Umbreon or even Mew can really struggle to check it defensively, and considering how often the nidos are on this kind of teams, it's a very threatening offensive presence.
I realize that we can't go like "this mon is really good with Sticky Web and screens and hazards support" so I won't push for a particular ranking but yea I just wanted to bring this up.

In Suicune's case I'm torn because I believe Crocune might be the single most influencial set in the current UU when it comes to teambuilding. Of course when used as a bulky water it weakens your team to well-played Fire-types etc but it's just such a threatening presence during the match that you can pull the most obvious double switches and your opponent still has to play conservatively .-.
The main problem with it imo is that its checks are also really viable mons compared to something like Zygarde which basically forced you to run suboptimal sets. SD Toxicroak, Guts Heracross, Shaymin, NP Celebi, offensive Roserade, choiced Starmie, CM Slowbro, CM Reuniclus, Stallbreaker Mew, Mega Ampharos, Taunt Jellicent are all good mons and more often than not it's really not hard to fit two checks to Suicune on your team. Not to mention Suicune can struggle to set up against common offensive mons like Mienshao, non-Scarf Victini, Honchkrow etc which means that a common scenario against offense is that you have to let Suicune get low enough to check something that it just can't set up for the remainder of the match.
So while I could totally see Suicune in S Rank, A+ is probably where it belongs.

 

[panamaxis]

I think Suicune should be A Rank.

You pretty much know what suicune is going to do (the large % of them seem to be crocune) and yes while suicune is extremely scary in the right scenario, it's not too difficult to plan for in teambuilding as there are a lot of pretty solid ways to counter it. A- is probably too low because Suicune is extremely good at what it does, but I feel like A+ rank should be reserved for pokemon that are bordering on/closer to S rank than suicune is. You generally know what suicune is going to do and this can be planned for fairly easily in teambuilding. The fact that suicune is so good at what it does should merit it A rank imo, but the number of ways that you can handle it prevent it from being A+ rank imo.

I think Mega Blastoise should be A- Rank
I could possible see this guy in A rank but, idk, I feel like mega blastoise isn't really that bulky and his speed stat means he is outsped by nearly all of the offensive UU pokes. Mega Blastoise is the poke that sort of at the "I'm going to tank a hit fine, but a lot of stuff can still 2hko me" level. He's sort of in the middle where you would think he would be a "defensive nuke" so to say, but he really isn't, unless you're fully investing in his defenses, but then he's not as scary offensively so it's fine.

He is by far UUs best spinner and extremely difficult to switch in (so he definitely has to be somewhere in the A level) but given the fact that he does have counters (bulky waters / florges / [non-celebi grasses + mega amph for non-ice beam blastoise]) and given the fact that most offensive pokes that hit him neutrally can 2HKO him or come pretty close to it (assuming it's an offensive blastoise: max hp / max s.atk), I think A- rank would be fine for him.

 

[C AllStar]

Suicune (A): Undoubtably it is one of the most influencial pokemon in teambuilding and forces people to carry strong checks or counters in order to not autolose to it. However, CroCune have absolutely zero ways to deal with its counters which are mostly immune to water or can cure themselves from burn. Suicune is basically useless before they are removed. Even it can choose to run offensive CM, it isn't that strong and is usually easily walled or revenge killed. Besides, relying on Restalk for healing means it is pretty easy to wear down and is generally not a good wall. While its fully invested physical bulk is good, pure water type's lack of resistance makes it somewhat checked by physical attackers to a point that even freaking Darmanitan can sort of check it. Suicune is something that is so influencial that is even potentially broken, but in practice it isn't consistant enough in its job to warrent a higher rank.

Mega Blastoise (A-): Mega Blastoise is without a doubt the best spinner in UU. It's coverage makes it really hard to switch into and it is extremely hard to OHKO without a super effective STAB move. However, the good news ends here. Mega Blastoise, as a spinner, needs to switch into hazards frequently to do its job, making it one of the easiest things to wear down when coupled with its total lack of recovery. This is even worse when Mega Blastoise has a hard time switching into many hazard setters (Roserade, Chesnsaught, even Nidoqueen, Empoleon etc can nail it hard on the switch in. It could still be spinblocked if predicting wrong for ghost switch in. It isn't completely safe against ghost types too as LO Tbolt Mismagius and offensive Trevnenant (I have used LO/Colbur Berry with Nature Cure Rest and it is cool). Even it kills the ghost, it will be forced out by the switch in and may not be able to come in on offensive pressure and hazards again.

As an offensive tank, Mega Blastoise's speed is simply underwheming in UU to threaten offensive teams. To make matter worse, it doesn't have good enough bulk or typing to back it up. Pure water's lack of resistance makes Mega Blastoise 2HKOed by many common attacks in UU. Its powerful coverage is great and acts like pseudo-protean but it is still walled by common pokemon like Florges, Suicune, AV Tangrowth etc. Even things that weak to one of its coverage like SpDef Mew can status it and roost stall it to an extent. Offensive teams have more trouble switching into it but also kills it really fast when combimed with hazards. I could even argue it for B+ but that seems too harsh.

 

[KM]

I wrote a whole post on this before (hidden below for ya convenience), but I'll just summarize it here for those not willing to listen to Kitten-jabber. Suicune's existence in the tier makes a number of otherwise far less viable mons (croak, heliolisk, even jelli to some extent) much more viable, and this effect, although not visible, contributes to its own viability. Any poke that can have that kind of effect on a metagame deserves to be ranked very highly.

Hide

While I definitely sympathize with the notion that a good number of things in the metagame that counter Suicune pretty well have recently risen in popularity, I think the fact that one of their main reasons for rising to popularity is Suicune makes Suicune an inherently S-ranked mon.

What I mean by this is that Suicune makes teambuilding rather restrictive. If you lack a cro-cune counter, you are going to lose to it. That's sort of absolutely true. It's not like other scary physical threats that you lack a counter to that you can just wear down with faster things and chip damage; you will get swept. Because of this, teams are forced to run a Suicune counter, or at least a suicune check. This usually manifests itself in the form of a water absorber like Heliolisk, Taunt Jellicent, Gastrodon (although gastro is hardly a counter), and Toxicroak, or simply by running several strong grass and electric type mons and phazing/hazards to deal with it eventually.

Because one of the main reasons for these water-absorbing mons' popularity is Suicune, we can also conclude that without the existence of Suicune in the tier, they would be far less viable. Without Dry Skin, Heliolisk is sort of just an underwhelming offensive pivot - without Dry Skin, Toxicroak is just a paltry set-up sweeper with decent offensive and horrible defensive typing - without Water Absorb, Jellicent is just an average spinblocker. For the 8.71% of people using Suicune on their team (as of the March stats), these pokes are something to work around. For the other 91.29% of people not using Suicune, they reap the benefit of battling these pokes that would be sub-optimal if Suicune didn't exist. As such, Suicune is pretty influential on the metagame and the caliber of pokes being used in it, which makes it easily S-rank imo.

Now, for Mega-Blastoise. I actually thing M-Blast is quite a bit better than many of you are giving credit for him. I'm going to discuss his role mainly on balanced and hyper offensive teams, because that's what I have the most experience with in the current meta and I personally think that's where he fits best.

Put simply, Mega-Blastoise is the epitome of reliability. There is very little in the tier that can straight OHKO him, and this combined with his respectable coverage means that he's a great emergency check to practically every threat in the entire tier. That said, he's not quite tanky enough to not get 2HKOd by the most dangerous threats of the tier, and he doesn't have any reliable methods of healing himself back up. However, because M-Blastoise is a paragon of bulky offense, he'll almost always perform his required duty, whether it's to spin away hazards once or twice, or just destroy some mons with his insane damage. The only things that can really safely switch into Stoise are Suicune (which will take significant damage), Milotic, and Florges, as the combination of Ice Beam, Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, and Water Pulse/Hydro Pump will threaten practically everything else in the tier. Even Toxicroak, who walls him defensively pretty well, can't do a whole lot of damage in return.

Although Mega-Blastoise is too slow and not bulky enough to sweep entire teams, his respectable bulk and insane damage make him a very reliable poke that will always spin away game-changing hazards and can dish out deadly damage in the process. I would lean towards A+ for Mega-Stoise - his role is unique, he isn't outclassed, and he has very few counters.

Oh - and a little side note. Mega-Blastoise is an amazing recipient of Quiver Dance/Shell Smashes, as his speed is sufficient to outspeed most of the unboosted metagame after a boost, and his damage gets skyrocketed to insane levels.

+2 252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 175-207 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[psVoltage]

I personally think Mega-Blastoise should go to A rank no lower than A-. He has an amazing set of moves, and is by far the best spinner in the teir since he has the ability to slaughter ghosts. I have had alot of success on the ladder with a Physically defensive mega blastoise (sorta like last gen but with more of a punch) He gained some great bulk while in mega, and still does quite a bit of dammage with his moves, all he needed was wish support (Unless you opt for rest talk ofc.) I used him on a spikes stacking semistall team where defog really wasn't an option. This is where he shines bulky or not. He can most of the time reliably spin, or just nuke something due to its wonderful ability. He is a good pokemon, just not one to throw onto every team like a suicune. For that he seems like a really good A rank candidate.

For those wondering heres that Blastoise set.
Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Dark Pulse
- Rapid Spin
- Roar/ Toxic/ Protect

 

[midend]

This

I personally think Mega-Blastoise should go to A rank no lower than A-. He has an amazing set of moves, and is by far the best spinner in the teir since he has the ability to slaughter ghosts. I have had alot of success on the ladder with a Physically defensive mega blastoise (sorta like last gen but with more of a punch) He gained some great bulk while in mega, and still does quite a bit of dammage with his moves, all he needed was wish support (Unless you opt for rest talk ofc.) I used him on a spikes stacking semistall team where defog really wasn't an option. This is where he shines bulky or not. He can most of the time reliably spin, or just nuke something due to its wonderful ability. He is a good pokemon, just not one to throw onto every team like a suicune. For that he seems like a really good A rank candidate.

For those wondering heres that Blastoise set.
Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Dark Pulse
- Rapid Spin
- Roar/ Toxic/ Protect

This is actually the best set of the 3; specially defensive spreads still easily get 2koed by too many things.

Unfortunately though i have seen one too many bulky offensive spreads switching into a variety of offensive stuff and then die. Die without doing a single shit.

 

[Chronobreak]

1000th post on this thread!!!!!
Anyway, wouldn't you want Water Pulse instead of scald if you are going for a reliable water STAB that nukes stuff? Idk, the burn may be be more important than I thought.

 

[Swamp Link]

Personally I prefer Scald. It's only 10 BP weaker, something that the extra 12.5% from burn can easily make up if you get it, and the utility is just better.

 

[RotomPoison]

Water Pulse is useless, either go for the utility of Scald or the power of Hydro Pump. I mean if you wanted to use a Surf with confusion just use SwagPlay

 

[Petrico94]

I mean if you wanted to use a Surf with confusion just use SwagPlay

Then I guess you would use Water Pulse
Pulse- 60bp(x1.5=90) + confusion
Surf- 90bp
Scald- 80bp + burn
Pump- 120bp 80% accuracy (120 x .8 = 96, still better damage if you used it that much)

Scald still has a better status to spread unless someone on your team is throwing out sleep or toxic and hydro pump is only bad if you can't stand missing, but it is surf that is useless.

 

[ShayminSweep]

Hydro Pump has 110 bp so it would be 110 * .8 = 88