Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

[Rotosect]

Slack Off Blastoise sounds sweet on paper, but it has a major problem: it becomes 100% predictable since you already know what it's going to run - Slack Off, water STAB, Rapid Spin and Dark Pulse, and therefore the opponent can take advantage of it and try to set-up in its face when it comes in to remove hazards. None of those moves are negotiable because M-Blastoise would lose its niche in the tier. Not having access to held items compounds this issue, while other spinners like Excadrill, for example, can outspeed an unsuspecting opponent with a Choice Scarf.

 

[amzaneok]

Slack Off Blastoise sounds sweet on paper, but it has a major problem: it becomes 100% predictable since you already know what it's going to run - Slack Off, water STAB, Rapid Spin and Dark Pulse, and therefore the opponent can take advantage of it and try to set-up in its face when it comes in to remove hazards. None of those moves are negotiable because M-Blastoise would lose its niche in the tier. Not having access to held items compounds this issue, while other spinners like Excadrill, for example, can outspeed an unsuspecting opponent with a Choice Scarf.

What threats "set up on its face"? Keldeo, Azumarill, and Gyarados are the only threats I see on the S or A viability rankings and none are very fond of a burn...

 

[Millky95]

Slack Off Blastoise sounds sweet on paper, but it has a major problem: it becomes 100% predictable since you already know what it's going to run - Slack Off, water STAB, Rapid Spin and Dark Pulse, and therefore the opponent can take advantage of it and try to set-up in its face when it comes in to remove hazards. None of those moves are negotiable because M-Blastoise would lose its niche in the tier. Not having access to held items compounds this issue, while other spinners like Excadrill, for example, can outspeed an unsuspecting opponent with a Choice Scarf.

Because of that very reason you could (assuming your team doesn't need Spin Support) run a 3 attack + Slack Off moveset and be more of an offensive tank

 

[escarlata]

Blastoise doesn't need to be a spinner to work in OU. Having Venusaur's bulk with more firepower, plus reliable recovery means it can be an effective wall of sorts. Neither does it need the Scald burn because who needs a burn when you have super effective coverage on practically everything you would want to burn with a set of Slack Off/Ice Beam/Aura Sphere/Dark Pulse.

Relevant Calculations why Scald is unnecessary

0 SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 180-212 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 130-153 (35.9 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Why burn him when you can 2HKO him?

0 SpA Mega Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 408-480 (127.5 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 203-239 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 270-318 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'd rather kill it 100% of the time than 30%.

0 SpA Mega Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 384-456 (107.2 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 126-148 (34.8 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 127-151 (35.4 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I'd rather kill it than burn it.

0 SpA Mega Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 184-218 (67.6 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 157-186 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 123-145 (45.2 - 53.3%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO

I'd rather have 94.1% to win compared to 65.5% (what whatever % it is).

0 SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 28-33 (8.6 - 10.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Mega Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 340-400 (104.9 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 141-166 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Why burn it when you can kill it after breaking MScale?

0 SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 366-432 (113.3 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 124-147 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You don't need to burn it to win; if he spams Stone Miss and not CC, you can just spam Slack Off until he misses, and then 2HKO him.

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 135-160 (37.2 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 91-108 (25.1 - 29.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 106-126 (25.6 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

I'm not sure I want to burn it.

 

[U-Ralph]

Blissey sounded good at first, but most of the Fighting, Bug, Dragon and Dark types are physical attackers which can still take advantage of Blissey's piss-poor defense. It has the same problem most other Fairies have, high special defense but low defense.

One note about Blastoise is that you don't have to use the mega stone on it. Mega Blastoise is obviously a lot better than just regular Blastoise, but regular Blastoise might be able to serve as a decent utility Pokemon if you want a bulky spinner with reliable recovery without using your mega slot.

Haxorus still seems to live under Garchomp's shadow since it has higher speed, better bulk, immunity to paralysis, STAB EQ, usable special attack and a better movepool overall. It is not like Fairies can really switch into Garchomp either, so I don't really see what niche this has over Chomp.

Garchomp doesn't use poison jab often because it has some 4mss issues with its movepool. Indeed, as you noticed it has a good special attack for fire blast, ground and dragon stab. Most of the time it will use SR/stone edge or a second dragon move in its last slot because outside of fairies, poison jab is usless and may be a set up bait ( if it is scarfed ).
What Haxorus has more with its new typing is the ability to have poison stabed. The stab is not that useful for fairies indeed, but i guess having a second stab for hit neutral thing without be locking on outrage or run dragon claw + outrage in not that bad.It also may use earthquake to cover the steel type (bar skarmory). The only type that become an issue then is the ground type with enough physical bulk. But once again, it can use aqua tail to cover that weakness.
Haxorus is also able to come in the fighteasier with that type, on a predicted u-turn for example.
Finally, i have to say Haxorus is not becoming a monstuous sweeper with that buff, but still get enough difference from other dragon to be used. And it is a great teamtate for charizard x as only quagshire counter both.

 

[alexwolf]

I hate to say it, but checking one extra A+ Pokemon doesn't always merit good viability. Pretty much every Dragon and Fairy-type in OU can still beat the crap out of it, and having Bug, Ice, and Fighting weaknesses, as well as low speed for an OU Dragon really hold it back from being viable. As an offensive Defogger, Scizor and Latios greatly outclass it, with the former having much more resistances, Roost for passive damage, and being able to beat Bisharp one-on-one (contrary to your claim that Hydreigon would be the only one to do that, and Scizor would be better at it to boot), while Latios is the fastest Dragon-type in the tier, and also has more power than Hydreigon, as well as Recover for passive damage. Hydreigon will likely stay in C+, purely because he'd still be outclassed at every role he has.

It's not checking one extra Pokemon, Hydreigon could always check Bisharp. It's about checking an entire playstyle, and an entire new role for Hydreigon, this of a hazard remover. Hydreigon is the hardest Defog user to wall, with similar power to Latios but without the awful Pursuit and Aegislash weakness, which is just excellent, and a way more spammable STAB in Dark Pulse. DeoSharp + Aegislash are all fucked up by Hydreigon with a moveset of Dark Pulse / Defog / Superpower or Fire Blast, which is not something many Pokemon can claim. Defog Hydreigon would be the most reliable offensive hazard remover, as it's not weak to Pursuit users or Bisharp. It would also be able to simultaneously check Aegislash and Bisharp, something no other Defog user can do without running defensive sets that are easy to wall (Zapdos and Mega Scizor).

Dragon / Poison Haxorus would become an even better wallbreaker thanks to its ability to OHKO most Fairy-types with Poison Jab. Also, it would gain more set up chances against Pokemon such as Specs Keldeo locked into Sacred Sword, Mega Venusaur, Terrakion's choiced locked Close Combat, and Toxic users without the need to use Lum Berry. The resistance to Mach Punch is nice too and would make Haxorus a tad harder to revenge kill (the Dragon Dance set, the other sets are easy to outspeed with most offensive Pokemon anyway).

Slack Off Mega Blastoise would be great for the the reasons that all the people so far have mentioned. Right now, i am torn between Defog Hydreigon and Slack Off Mega Blastoise, bu i think i will go with Defog Hydreigon, as by becoming a better Pokemon we gain one more viable check to huge threats, namely Bisharp and Aegislash.

 

[Salemance]

Another slate another wait. Lets get to it then!

•Slack Off Mega Blastoise
This has been cited similar to our discussion of Empoleon for obvious reasons. Bulky water getting recovery options? The difference is MegaToise isn't trying to do too much. He already gets STAB perfect coverage due to Mega Launcher and can run Slack Off with whatever in the final slot (HP Grass to Scald to Rapid Spin even) meaning that he is not having difficulty picking or choosing what he wishes to do. This is possibly my vote as I love the idea of this mega being a reliable bulky spinner, something we haven't really ever had.

•Normal / Fairy Blissey
This is iffy for me. This makes sense flavor wise, makes Blissey and even worse to deal with slightly, but she isn't getting any favors though as she is still fighting for a team slot with Chansey but it has some new niches and viability with this that should make it considered (at least its dragon tail nomination. That scared me).

•Defog Hydreigon
Welcome to the best offensive defogger in the game! Same relative bulk as Zapdos, resistance to the dark type moves of Bisharp and a plethora of moves to abuse, its hard to find a lot of fault with Hydreigon in practice as a defogger, thus you must see that it really just falls apart when you look at what was crippling the hydra in the first place. While a beautiful nitch it will possess, I do not know if this will lift it above the flaws that have been plaguing it all generation.

•Dragon / Poison Haxorus
Then we get this damn thing. As much as I respect this suggestion and see Haxo as needing some kind of love, I just don't know how well this will help him. He will be wanting either both STABs or for go poison for fire coverage to not be Skarm bait, making me wonder what it will be that takes shape with him if he is picked and what is the dominant style of choice.


Overall, a very strong slate in some regards and weak in others, I can't wait to see the final decision.

 

[amzaneok]

Blastoise doesn't need to be a spinner to work in OU. Having Venusaur's bulk with more firepower, plus reliable recovery means it can be an effective wall of sorts. Neither does it need the Scald burn because who needs a burn when you have super effective coverage on practically everything you would want to burn with a set of Slack Off/Ice Beam/Aura Sphere/Dark Pulse.

Relevant Calculations why Scald is unnecessary

Why burn him when you can 2HKO him?

I'd rather kill it 100% of the time than 30%.

I'd rather kill it than burn it.

I'd rather have 94.1% to win compared to 65.5% (what whatever % it is).

Why burn it when you can kill it after breaking MScale?

You don't need to burn it to win; if he spams Stone Miss and not CC, you can just spam Slack Off until he misses, and then 2HKO him.

I'm not sure I want to burn it.

Sorry, you're right. I was referring more to the Rapid Spin set than the bulky attacker variant, where you only can have one move left after Dark Pulse, Rapid Spin, and Slack Off, and Scald offers great neutral coverage and utility.

I would still drop Aura Sphere for Scald, though. Bisharp, Ferrothorn, Keldeo, and (I guess?) Conkeldurr are the main threats that Aura Sphere is more efficient against. It still walls Bisharp, Ferrothorn without Power Whip (and a physically defensive set stalls out Power Whip), and Life Orb Keldeo has a really low chance of a 2HKO on the offensive Rapid Spinner (but is entirely walled by a physically defensive set). Scald and Aura Sphere do basically the same damage against Terrakion as well, according to the Showdown! calculator.

Offensive Mega Gyarados is the main thing it really gains the ability to beat (if it doesn't get burnt in 3 hits of Scald), but it can easily delay its Mega Evolution and Blastoise isn't keen of the RestTalk variants. Gyarados isn't a great match up, but Blastoise would have better chances with Aura Sphere, admittedly.

 

[Red Cat]

Garchomp doesn't use poison jab often because it has some 4mss issues with its movepool. Indeed, as you noticed it has a good special attack for fire blast, ground and dragon stab. Most of the time it will use SR/stone edge or a second dragon move in its last slot because outside of fairies, poison jab is usless and may be a set up bait ( if it is scarfed ).
What Haxorus has more with its new typing is the ability to have poison stabed. The stab is not that useful for fairies indeed, but i guess having a second stab for hit neutral thing without be locking on outrage or run dragon claw + outrage in not that bad.It also may use earthquake to cover the steel type (bar skarmory). The only type that become an issue then is the ground type with enough physical bulk. But once again, it can use aqua tail to cover that weakness.
Haxorus is also able to come in the fighteasier with that type, on a predicted u-turn for example.
Finally, i have to say Haxorus is not becoming a monstuous sweeper with that buff, but still get enough difference from other dragon to be used. And it is a great teamtate for charizard x as only quagshire counter both.

Garchomp does not have 4MSS. It can kill almost anything it wants to with Dragon Claw / Earthquake / Fire Blast. It has the option of using Poison Jab, Stone Edge, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Stealth Rock, or whatever other move you want in the last slot since the first three moves get such good coverage. Haxorus on the other hand, does have 4MSS. If you run dual STABs, which is the whole point of the retyping in the first place, then you have two moveslots for coverage. Without Superpower, it is walled by Ferrothorn. Without Earthquake, it is walled by Aegislash and Mega Mawile. Without Aqua Tail, it is walled by Hippowdon and Gliscor. Haxorus is walled by Skarmory and Mega Scisor no matter what it runs, but these are two threats Garchomp can easily get past with Fire Blast. Haxorus's 97 base speed leaves it vulnerable to being revenge killed by the base 100 speed tier.

 

[alexwolf]

Guys, Dragon / Poison Haxorus should be always using (Outrage / Dragon Claw) / Poison Jab / (Earthquake / Superpower). Poison Jab is a reliable STAB move that doesn't lock you in and deals with Fairy-types, Outrage is your most powerful weapon, Dragon Claw hits many targets that Poison Jab can't and unlike Outragte doesn't lock you in, and EQ / Superpower gives coverage against Steel-types, which gives you one free slot to run SD or DD. No matter what you do Skarmory will always check you, so you have to deal with this by teammates. However, +1 or +2 LO Superpower still weakens it a bit, and even +2 LO Outrage will 2HKO Skarmory, so it's in no way a counter.

tl;dr Haxorus doesn't have 4mss at all and Poison Jab is very easy to fit.

 

[Red Cat]

Guys, Dragon / Poison Haxorus should be always using (Outrage / Dragon Claw) / Poison Jab / (Earthquake / Superpower). Poison Jab is a reliable STAB move that doesn't lock you in and deals with Fairy-types, Outrage is your most powerful weapon, Dragon Claw hits many targets that Poison Jab can't and unlike Outragte doesn't lock you in, and EQ / Superpower gives coverage against Steel-types, which gives you one free slot to run SD or DD. No matter what you do Skarmory will always check you, so you have to deal with this by teammates. However, +1 or +2 LO Superpower still weakens it a bit, and even +2 LO Outrage will 2HKO Skarmory, so it's in no way a counter.

tl;dr Haxorus doesn't have 4mss at all and Poison Jab is very easy to fit.

I wouldn't call Poison Jab a reliable STAB considering it is still one of the worst offensive types in the game even with being able to hit Fairies for super effective damage. Outrage locks you in which is an open invitation for revenge killers, Steel types, and the Fairy types which this thing was supposed to destroy in the first place.

The only thing Haxorus really has over Garchomp is Dragon Dance, but you might as well use Iron Head Dragonite if you want a Dragon Dancer and you are really paranoid about Fairies.

 

[Mugenman88]

I wouldn't call Poison Jab a reliable STAB considering it is still one of the worst offensive types in the game even with being able to hit Fairies for super effective damage. Outrage locks you in which is an open invitation for revenge killers, Steel types, and the Fairy types which this thing was supposed to destroy in the first place.

The only thing Haxorus really has over Garchomp is Dragon Dance, but you might as well use Iron Head Dragonite if you want a Dragon Dancer and you are really paranoid about Fairies.

Don't forget about the grass types, although the only grass type which may actually want to switch, Ferrothorn, is unaffected by Poison Jab. Either way no pokemon is perfect and I agree with alex

 

[Jacks0n]

It's not checking one extra Pokemon, Hydreigon could always check Bisharp. It's about checking an entire playstyle, and an entire new role for Hydreigon, this of a hazard remover. Hydreigon is the hardest Defog user to wall, with similar power to Latios but without the awful Pursuit and Aegislash weakness, which is just excellent, and a way more spammable STAB in Dark Pulse. DeoSharp + Aegislash are all fucked up by Hydreigon with a moveset of Dark Pulse / Defog / Superpower or Fire Blast, which is not something many Pokemon can claim. Defog Hydreigon would be the most reliable offensive hazard remover, as it's not weak to Pursuit users or Bisharp. It would also be able to simultaneously check Aegislash and Bisharp, something no other Defog user can do without running defensive sets that are easy to wall (Zapdos and Mega Scizor).

Dragon / Poison Haxorus would become an even better wallbreaker thanks to its ability to OHKO most Fairy-types with Poison Jab. Also, it would gain more set up chances against Pokemon such as Specs Keldeo locked into Sacred Sword, Mega Venusaur, Terrakion's choiced locked Close Combat, and Toxic users without the need to use Lum Berry. The resistance to Mach Punch is nice too and would make Haxorus a tad harder to revenge kill (the Dragon Dance set, the other sets are easy to outspeed with most offensive Pokemon anyway).

Slack Off Mega Blastoise would be great for the the reasons that all the people so far have mentioned. Right now, i am torn between Defog Hydreigon and Slack Off Mega Blastoise, bu i think i will go with Defog Hydreigon, as by becoming a better Pokemon we gain one more viable check to huge threats, namely Bisharp and Aegislash.

Thankyou, someone who appreciates the idea of defog Hydriogon.

The ideal ev's would be:
32 speed ev's (to outspeed bisharp)

252 hp (bulk)

120 defence (only just gets 3okho'd by a +2 life orb orb bisharp sucker punch)

proof:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Hydreigon: 174-205 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

50- attack (guarentees a KO on bisharp with superpower)

rest dumped into the good sp.attack

Item: leftovers

Moveset:
- roost
- defog
- dark pulse
- superpower

This would allow hydriogon to completely shut down aegi/bisharp and deo d cores. It would be a very good anti-meta deffoger with good offences and reliable recovery in roost

That is all

 

[Mood4food77]

i wouldn't even do a bulky set, i would choose defog hydreigon over the others not because it's better, but because of what it does to the balance of the metagame. Deo-D/Aegislash/Bisharp HO is a dominant playstyle right now, probably teh most dominant outside of that stupid BP team, that could use some sort of check and Defog Hydreigon does the trick. 92/90/90 bulk is pretty damn good and with a dark typing, it gets some useful resists. Hydreigon will force HO teams to use a fairy just to beat it (right now they don't as it's not needed outside of azumarill or something) as it checks half the team. Hell, using an offensive defog set might even be the way to go like

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Levitate / Mild
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 Atk
Draco Meteor
Dark Pulse
Superpower
Defog

Obviously you can play around with the EVs and yes, this is obviously walled by fairies but this checks the ever living fuck out of Deo-D HO teams, dealing massive damage with Dark Pulse to Aegislash and Deo-D, pretty much OHKOing Bisharp with Superpower and using Defog to get rid of the hazards. It's fast for a defog user and got a decent defensive typing outside of fairy attacks. It's not creative but it'll fucking get the job done.

 

[skies]

Why do people keep saying it can 'handle' Bisharp?
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 199-234 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 239-282 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
After a round of Life Orb damage it will kill itself or it will die in the process anyways. I mean, Fire Blast and Focus Blast OHKO, but Hydreigon cannot survive the Sucker Punch :/

It's a great check, but not a counter.

 

[Jacks0n]

Why do people keep saying it can 'handle' Bisharp?
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 199-234 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 239-282 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
After a round of Life Orb damage it will kill itself or it will die in the process anyways. I mean, Fire Blast and Focus Blast OHKO, but Hydreigon cannot survive the Sucker Punch :/

It's a great check, but not a counter.

A bulky set would be so much better with roost to heal of the damage with supowerpower/defog/roost/dark pulse and it can also have defencive ev's and just 32 speed ev's to outspeed bisharp. Roost would give it more longevity to defog throughout the game and help it easily overcome aegi and bisharp.

Calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Hydreigon: 174-205 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Jaroda]

Slack Off Mega Blastoise (Red Cat) - Definitely the kind of move Blastoise needs. A bulky Mega is nigh worthless without a means of instant recovery, and Blastoise certainly has the bulk and typing to abuse it. I wouldn't go the spinner route with it however. I'd definitely use it to force switches and perhaps be able to recover health when it forces something out. A specially defensive build with Scald and Slack Off should prove difficult to overcome. Do be aware though that Suicune has 100/115/115 bulk with Leftovers, Pressure and Calm Mind, compared to Mega Blastoise's 79/120/115 defenses. The HP difference is unfortunate, but Blastoise will be hitting MUCH harder even with uninvested SpA thanks to Mega Launcher and 135 SpA. I don't think it's exactly meta changing, just the right buff that the turtle needs.

Normal / Fairy Blissey (Valmanway) - Dragon immunity and losing the Fighting weakness is nice. You might be weak to Poison/Steel now, but the BP of those moves don't even come close to the BP of common Fighting moves like Close Combat and Superpower. But being weak to Bisharp and Aegeslash isn't exactly a good thing, even though Blissey can hit back with Flamethrower. Still, not exactly a change I'm ecstatic about.

Defog Hydreigon (grassycow) - This one I think has the most merit. An offensive Defog user that isn't Pursuit bait, and also can't be trapped effectively by Gothitelle or Magnezone either (unlike Skarmory/Scizor), as Dark Pulse and Fire Blast will wreck both, and Hydreigon doesn't exactly mind being Tricked a pair of Choice Specs either. And of course their is plain old U-Turn to swap to the appropriate counter if the predictable Defiant user or Fairy is coming in. 92/90/90 defenses with two immunities and 6 resistances is pretty damn good, with access to Recovery as well. Hydreigon could potentially be the Defog best able to stick around the longest, as his bag of tricks is immense. This is probably the pick that would influence the meta the most.

Dragon / Poison Haxorus (U-Ralph) - Flavor wise I don't really see the Poison secondary typing working. As if I had to ascribe Haxorus with a second type I'd sooner be inclined to think Fighting, Steel or even potentially Bug. *shrugs* Having written the analysis for this guy, I can say that STAB Poison Jab helps a bit, but not necessarily the change he needs most. Granted, not being weak to Moonblast/Play Rough and having STAB Poison Jab means he ROFL stomps Clefable and Azumarill now, since Mold Breaker ignores Unaware, and Haxorus resists Aqua Jet. Resisting Mach Punch and Toxic immunity is nice. Being weak to Scarf Excadrill/Scarf Landorus-T isn't though. Skarmory/Forretress can be dealt with if you use Taunt, as this allows for extra dances easily. If using Dragon Dance I recommend Taunt over Earthquake and if you run Swords Dance I recommend Earthquake instead.

 

[Jacks0n]

I have not actually been able to say my opinions on the matter so here they are

Slack Off Mega blastoise (Red Cat) Mega blastoise definitely struggles in OU as a spinner or a tank. With no recovery, good bulk but averedge HP and the fact that OU is full of electric types really wears it down. It faces stiff competetion as a spinner on offensive teams from Excadrill which is definately better on offence, it faces competition as a hazard remover with defog skarm which is such a great pokemon on stall, has recovery and doesn't take up a mega slot as well as having a better defencive typing. And it also faces competition on balance from both. Mega blatoise does not really shine at all in OU. Now, given recovery, it has a chance to somewhat shine. I still think as a spinner it would be somewhat outclassed on offence but maybe not stall, but I think it would be able to run a three attacks & slack off set well. It has good bulk to soak hits and it can still hit very hard and have reliable recovery. This suggestion is good, especially on paper, but I still think mega Blastoise would struggle to find a spot any higher then B with its new addition.

Normal/fairy Blissey (Valmanway) Blissey has had a huge fall from grace this gen, I don't think it is long till it falls to UU. Blissey's problem doesnt lie in its typing, though fairy/normal blissey is a good idea, but its piss bad defence will still not let it break B- on viability rankings. Chansey outclasses Blissey so much because its defence is 2x better. Blissey doesnt need something as a buff in its typing, because it can take sp.hits all day, but something to buff its defence. Though anything that buffs its defence e.g. furr coat would make blissey ubers so we have a bit of a problem here. Works flavour wise and a nice idea but I think Blisseys crap defence would hold it back too much and blissey is a really hard thing to work with in theorymon.

Defog Hydreigon (Me) Not going to say much about this because people will call me bias. I think defog hydriogon would be such a good pokemon at breaking down Deoshap/Aegi cores and a great offensive/defencive deffoger. Honestly this thing would nerf the deosharp playstyle (holy crap it also has roost). Go read Jaroda, mood4food77 and Alexwolf's post because they give good input...

Dragon / Poison Haxorus (U-Ralph) Haxorus has also struggled this gen in OU. Being largely outclassed by mega zard x as a ddancer because of better bulk/speed and stabs it has struggled to shine. Poison typing will give it more oportunities to set up on things like choice locked keldeo and terrak but I still think it would struggle because of scarf chomp/exca. But, this thing would have a pluz over chomp with good secondary stab to easily punish fairies, mold breaker to not give a dam about friggen quag, and once skarms are killed this thing will reck stall, aswell as being to destroy offence with a ddance under its belt. A really neat idea and could be quite viable in ou, tho no more than probably a B+/A-.

 

[alexwolf]

I wouldn't call Poison Jab a reliable STAB considering it is still one of the worst offensive types in the game even with being able to hit Fairies for super effective damage. Outrage locks you in which is an open invitation for revenge killers, Steel types, and the Fairy types which this thing was supposed to destroy in the first place.

The only thing Haxorus really has over Garchomp is Dragon Dance, but you might as well use Iron Head Dragonite if you want a Dragon Dancer and you are really paranoid about Fairies.

Garchomp can't reliably get past Quagsire and Clefable, common stall Pokemon, but Haxorus dgaf thanks to Mold Breaker. This, combined with DD, more immediate power, and STAB Poison Jab, which threatens most Fairies with OHKOs, are all relevant and important advantages of Haxorus over Garchomp. And when i say reliable STAB, i mean with good power and accuracy, not with great coverage.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Fairy typing honestly doesn't come across as a boost to Blissey for me. Sure if Clefable got normal added to it that would be amazing, but Blissey's physical def isn't up to the task of abusing that fairy type.

Dragon Immunity-- ok, but Blissey already lols at Lati@s' (and Goodra's?) Draco Meteor, and you're no better off against Psyshock. Every other Dragon is not something you want to switch into. I guess you know beat Hydreigon-- that's nice.

Dark Resist-- So you take less damage from Toxicroak's Dark Pulse and still get raped by everything that uses Crunch/Knock Off.

Bug resist-- Too bad Scizor now rapes you with Bullet Punch, but it's an improvement I guess. Handles Volc better sorta.

Honestly none of this to me is a good trade for now letting Lando-I rape you with Sludge Wave where before he had to risk Focus Miss.

 

[Red Cat]

Dragon Immunity-- ok, but Blissey already lols at Lati@s' (and Goodra's?) Draco Meteor, and you're no better off against Psyshock. Every other Dragon is not something you want to switch into. I guess you know beat Hydreigon-- that's nice.

The funny thing is that Lati@s doesn't have to worry about the special attack drop from Draco Meteor against Blissey, so if Blissey switches into Draco Meteor, there is no consequence and Lati@s can rape Blissey with Psyshock.

 

[Valmanway]

You know, at first I kind of liked my idea, but to be honest, I didn't even expect it to be slated. I was pretty much coming up with things off the top of my head, and at the time, this one seemed passable. I actually didn't think it stood a chance at winning in the first place once I looked at the competition, but now I clearly see that this was just a terrible idea. I guess coming up with theorymons isn't my thing. lol Can we replace my idea with someone else's?

 

[Red Cat]

You know, at first I kind of liked my idea, but to be honest, I didn't even expect it to be slated. I was pretty much coming up with things off the top of my head, and at the time, this one seemed passable. I actually didn't think it stood a chance at winning in the first place once I looked at the competition, but now I clearly see that this was just a terrible idea. I guess coming up with theorymons isn't my thing. lol Can we replace my idea with someone else's?

Extreme Speed Braviary was really good, but yeah, you whiffed on this one.

 

[Valmanway]

Extreme Speed Braviary was really good, but yeah, you whiffed on this one.

That's probably the only good one I'm ever gonna come up with, all honesty. I'll leave making theorymons in better hands.

 

[Chou Toshio]

There's no need to go that far... Fairy Blissey is certainly not UNinteresting. I'm just not sure if Blissey would benefit much. Where it does get better is losing the Fighting weakness. This means that mons that depend on weak or unSTAB'd Fighting attacks will not be able to get around Blissey nearly as easily. Thundurus/Thundurus-T for instance will have a lot more trouble, as will Gengar (as long as it lacks Sludge Bomb...). Even in Landorus-I's case, not every one carries Sludge Wave, and it has a lot of competition for that slot from Psychic (and Sludge Bomb is still only a 3HKO anyway).

Some relevant calcs (with Fairy Typing):

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 118-140 (18 - 21.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
^Meaning Thundurus can do over 80% damage against regular Bliss with 2 Focus Blasts.

252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 283-334 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 188-222 (28.8 - 34%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Eh, though Wild Charge does 2HKO 100% of the time... (let's watch it Wild Charge Blissey though-- that recoil's gotta sting lol)