Ladder Balanced Hackmons

Arcticblast said:
Because Gengar can Spore you a second time from the grave, right

And honestly, I'd rather use Poison Heal on something that is actually a threat, rather than a tech for a specific threat. PH should definitely not just be thrown around on whatever you'd like since you can only run two of any ability per team - save it for something that can use it well.

Poison Heal is ridiculously overrated. Good, yes, but overrated.
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Given that this is Meloetta that's being discussed, it's not like it has that many other options. Unaware is useful against Gengar, due to it not usually having particularly powerful coverage options, but against something like Regigigas or MM2X you'd have a better chance with something that means you can possibly survive after switching out.

On the other hand, this is still Meloetta. You could do something sensible like just grabbing yourself a Yveltal and giving it Sucker Punch rather than wasting your time arguing it, it sucks most of the time anyway.
 
Whatwasthatnoise said:
Given that this is Meloetta that's being discussed, it's not like it has that many other options. Unaware is useful against Gengar, due to it not usually having particularly powerful coverage options, but against something like Regigigas or MM2X you'd have a better chance with something that means you can possibly survive after switching out.

On the other hand, this is still Meloetta. You could do something sensible like just grabbing yourself a Yveltal and giving it Sucker Punch rather than wasting your time arguing it, it sucks most of the time anyway.
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also melo hard counters protean mm2y, or should at least, if it not packing some crap niche move like Tail Glow on Protean MM2
 
OiawesomeDG said:
also melo hard counters protean mm2y, or should at least, if it not packing some crap niche move like Tail Glow on Protean MM2
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Wait, how? Sure, Psystrike from Melo does a lot, but Mewtwo can outspeed and do quite a bit with whatever STAB attack it uses. (I use Steam Eruption and Moonblast usually.)
 
Uselesscrab said:
Wait, how? Sure, Psystrike from Melo does a lot, but Mewtwo can outspeed and do quite a bit with whatever STAB attack it uses. (I use Steam Eruption and Moonblast usually.)
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standard melo should be strike/recover/spore/filler so unless it baits you to spore by sporing itself to get off free
252 SpA Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 148-175 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
So I have been experimenting and have noticed that MMX is amazingly verstile, even the lesser used abilities.

Shielddust? Absolutely! no more sacred fire burns. No guarders and nuzzle users go "???"
Wonderskin? Delicious gamble. Not a dead giveaway immidiatly either apart from whirlwind, can fuck up parting shot aswell.
Toxic heal, adabtability, download, contratory all work wonderfully, techy is great too! Even scrappy and adability for hi damage fighting type STAB work too.

why is this fucker so verstile i mean seriously. I haven't really found an ability with a niche that wouldnt work with MMX.
 
CactusCacti said:
So I have been experimenting and have noticed that MMX is amazingly verstile, even the lesser used abilities.

Shielddust? Absolutely! no more sacred fire burns. No guarders and nuzzle users go "???"
Wonderskin? Delicious gamble. Not a dead giveaway immidiatly either apart from whirlwind, can fuck up parting shot aswell.
Toxic heal, adabtability, download, contratory all work wonderfully, techy is great too! Even scrappy and adability for hi damage fighting type STAB work too.

why is this fucker so verstile i mean seriously. I haven't really found an ability with a niche that wouldnt work with MMX.
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Slow Start.
 
CactusCacti said:
So I have been experimenting and have noticed that MMX is amazingly verstile, even the lesser used abilities.

Shielddust? Absolutely! no more sacred fire burns. No guarders and nuzzle users go "???"
Wonderskin? Delicious gamble. Not a dead giveaway immidiatly either apart from whirlwind, can fuck up parting shot aswell.
Toxic heal, adabtability, download, contratory all work wonderfully, techy is great too! Even scrappy and adability for hi damage fighting type STAB work too.

why is this fucker so verstile i mean seriously. I haven't really found an ability with a niche that wouldnt work with MMX.
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Truant.
 
CactusCacti said:
So I have been experimenting and have noticed that MMX is amazingly verstile, even the lesser used abilities.

Shielddust? Absolutely! no more sacred fire burns. No guarders and nuzzle users go "???"
Wonderskin? Delicious gamble. Not a dead giveaway immidiatly either apart from whirlwind, can fuck up parting shot aswell.
Toxic heal, adabtability, download, contratory all work wonderfully, techy is great too! Even scrappy and adability for hi damage fighting type STAB work too.

why is this fucker so verstile i mean seriously. I haven't really found an ability with a niche that wouldnt work with MMX.
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In all seriousness, though, what he said is true. Things like Technician MMX (I know, you're all sick of hearing me talk about it) and Flint's Unaware one are sets that show that Mewtwo Mega X still has a lot of untapped potential.
 
hi, i'm a know (well i guess i am lol) gimmick (and noobish D=) player that have been playing lately, and finally decided to interact here (the forum lulz)

about Mold M-Gengar... despite being gimmick a AV Insomnia Drapion doesn't fear dark pulse as Melo nor does fear Moonblast as Yveltal, or even Sludge Wave in some cases, but for sure this is a very specific check
 
CactusCacti said:
So I have been experimenting and have noticed that MMX is amazingly verstile, even the lesser used abilities.

Shielddust? Absolutely! no more sacred fire burns. No guarders and nuzzle users go "???"
Wonderskin? Delicious gamble. Not a dead giveaway immidiatly either apart from whirlwind, can fuck up parting shot aswell.
Toxic heal, adabtability, download, contratory all work wonderfully, techy is great too! Even scrappy and adability for hi damage fighting type STAB work too.

why is this fucker so verstile i mean seriously. I haven't really found an ability with a niche that wouldnt work with MMX.
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sturdy(its bulky enough to live hits lol), illuminate, stance change, zen mode, (i would say cute charm, but the megas still have genders if i recall...needs fix imo), stall.

But on a more serious note, i do agree, mega mewtwo x is kinda ridiculously good with its 190 attack, 150 spc attack, all around good bulk, typing and speed teir. but i stand firm when i say 190 attack is 190 attack. hes only versatile because his stats are just THAT outrageous. i hate hate hate hate HATE to be "that guy" but as much as i love megas right now, but i think mega mewtwo x(and maybe y) should be taken to consideration to ban or something. and i know you guys wont agree with me or anything, but you can at least hear me out... im just saying...every bh pokemon up to date had SOMETHING to make it somewhat...easier to handle...gengar has mediocre bulk/attack, gyrados has less speed and defense/spc attack heracross has a shit typing and not alot of speed(especially with its bulk being kind of lacking) lugia has NO offensive presence....arceus....ok...arceus has 120 across the board...but at least it doesnt have stats going past that ._. what does mega mewtwo x have? decent bulk, decent defensive typing, decent offensive typing, highest base attack in the game. and spc attack rivaling pokemon such as reshiram and kyogre. both viable with that spc attack stat, and speed teir that not many pokemon pass that are bh viable. before you all jump at me saying "WELL WE ADAPTED TO HANDLE IT AND WE HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS" i know. im just saying, its kinda overpowered, and annoying to face sometimes without using specific pokemon to check it. (xern/chans come to mind being the best) and In my opinion id rather him be gone.
 
Lcass4919 said:
sturdy(its bulky enough to live hits lol), illuminate, stance change, zen mode, (i would say cute charm, but the megas still have genders if i recall...needs fix imo), stall.

But on a more serious note, i do agree, mega mewtwo x is kinda ridiculously good with its 190 attack, 150 spc attack, all around good bulk, typing and speed teir. but i stand firm when i say 190 attack is 190 attack. hes only versatile because his stats are just THAT outrageous. i hate hate hate hate HATE to be "that guy" but as much as i love megas right now, but i think mega mewtwo x(and maybe y) should be taken to consideration to ban or something. and i know you guys wont agree with me or anything, but you can at least hear me out... im just saying...every bh pokemon up to date had SOMETHING to make it somewhat...easier to handle...gengar has mediocre bulk/attack, gyrados has less speed and defense/spc attack heracross has a shit typing and not alot of speed(especially with its bulk being kind of lacking) lugia has NO offensive presence....arceus....ok...arceus has 120 across the board...but at least it doesnt have stats going past that ._. what does mega mewtwo x have? decent bulk, decent defensive typing, decent offensive typing, highest base attack in the game. and spc attack rivaling pokemon such as reshiram and kyogre. both viable with that spc attack stat, and speed teir that not many pokemon pass that are bh viable. before you all jump at me saying "WELL WE ADAPTED TO HANDLE IT AND WE HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS" i know. im just saying, its kinda overpowered, and annoying to face sometimes without using specific pokemon to check it. (xern/chans come to mind being the best) and In my opinion id rather him be gone.
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I agree with that, but even in this situation i would like MMX to stay just because i think it's best to restrict bans to a minimum.

Anyway, most mons are God-like in some aspects, but wet paper in others. MMX is like decent or good at everything and God-Like at offensive presence lol
 
Despite being a heavy offense player, I agree with lcass here. Mewtwo's godlike stats and insane versatility make it literally impossible to reliably counter, and very hard to check.
 
While there are other things I'd rather focus on first (and I really need to get around to typing up my posts for the first one I have in mind), I pretty much agree. Dealing with either Mewtwo requires scouting to deal with, and since they are so fast and powerful, scouting them hurts a lot and can even be fatal if you "mis-scout", which is pretty rare with most other mons. And then you give them Protean and they can happily change their type on you and hit hard with whatever coverage they feel like.

Plus, to echo Lcass again, most things without that much power are either very frail (Deoxys-D), slow (Ampharos-M), or has really bad defensive typing (Kyu-both). And everything else around their speed tiers are also usually pretty frail (Gengar-M, Aerodactyl-M) and often lack offensive power (Deo-S, Accelegor). Mewtwo-M-Both don't have wall-like bulk, but they have enough to take more hits than pretty much anything else at a similar speed tier.

Any, in short, they kind of feel like they're in a similar position Mega-Lucario was in when it was OU legal.

Oh, and Xtwo outclasses so many Fighting types that it replaced the decent handful of Fighting types we used last gen on it's own except for very specific niches. EG, Virizion, Cobalion, Keldeo, Terrakion, Meloetta-P, the occasional Lucario, and I think I'm missing one or two more. Naturally, I'm not a fan of things that restrict diversity and force centralization.

But anyway, yes, we can deal with them since we adapted, but I still wonder if they're healthy for the metagame.
 
Going back to the subject of Mold M-Gengar check/counter, there is something that can't get in because of a lack of sleep immunity, but after it's face to face with Gengar it can do nice.

I am talking about Aerilate Yveltal. Generally i hate to play mind games of Sucker Punch against a Gengar because it can simply get more Shell Smashes until i run out of PP, so it is a must to predict the right time to Knock Off and pray so this Gengar doesn't predict that and shoots a Moonblast on you. With Aerilate you can make sure your priority hits by using ExtremeSpeed.

That's not all, Dark + Flying coverage are only resisted by Bisharp, Mawile and Tyranitar lol

Offensively speaking Yveltal has the same stats as Xerneas, and has one more STAB, so it may be worth a try.
 
Neverman said:
Going back to the subject of Mold M-Gengar check/counter, there is something that can't get in because of a lack of sleep immunity, but after it's face to face with Gengar it can do nice.

I am talking about Aerilate Yveltal. Generally i hate to play mind games of Sucker Punch against a Gengar because it can simply get more Shell Smashes until i run out of PP, so it is a must to predict the right time to Knock Off and pray so this Gengar doesn't predict that and shoots a Moonblast on you. With Aerilate you can make sure your priority hits by using ExtremeSpeed.

That's not all, Dark + Flying coverage are only resisted by Bisharp, Mawile and Tyranitar lol

Offensively speaking Yveltal has the same stats as Xerneas, and has one more STAB, so it may be worth a try.
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You literally will always lose to mgar as it will always moonblast or spore you
Also I'm mad at all the ignorant use of sucker punch-
252 Atk Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Gengar: 240-284 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mega Gengar Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal: 406-478 (89 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mega Gengar Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 370-436 (81.1 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I can see it on careful PH yvel since it can live 2 +2 non LO moonblasts and SP twice but other than that I really don't know
 
Monte Cristo said:
You literally will always lose to mgar as it will always moonblast or spore you
Also I'm mad at all the ignorant use of sucker punch-
252 Atk Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Gengar: 240-284 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mega Gengar Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal: 406-478 (89 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mega Gengar Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 370-436 (81.1 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I can see it on careful PH yvel since it can live 2 +2 non LO moonblasts and SP twice but other than that I really don't know
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Well, you made the calcs with +2 SpAtk Gengar against Yveltal, but with a normal Def Gengar against Sucker Punch, that's not fair.
-1 Def is OHKOed by Sucker Punch (doesn't matter if it is a neutral or positive nature).
 
I think it's just impossible to cover every variant at once. I mean, gar isn't gonna carry judgment, sword, ssmash, moonblast, spore, sub, and kings shield all at the same time, right?

So maybe share the responsibility across your team for countering it.
 
Arcticblast said:
Um no? You could just slap a Lum Berry on it and run something like Unaware to give it utility beyond just checking Gengar or even Prankster for your own sleep shenanigans. There's also Magic Bounce (although this doesn't stop Mold Breaker or Normalize variants).

Let's be real - whether or not it's the BEST choice, Poison Heal is never the ONLY choice. In this case, I honestly believe Poison Heal is not the best choice at all.
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Poison Heal is just too reliable to pass up. Mold Breaker mega gengar is its most common set. It often runs sleep to get passed its counters. What better way to block sleep than Poison Heal?

Kit Kasai said:
I think it's just impossible to cover every variant at once. I mean, gar isn't gonna carry judgment, sword, ssmash, moonblast, spore, sub, and kings shield all at the same time, right?

So maybe share the responsibility across your team for countering it.
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This is exactly what I do. Prankster Kyogre doesn't care about sleep variants, meanwhile, Adamant Poison Heal Yveltal kills them with Sucker Punch and Knock Off. I use my upport PH Xerneas to defeat impostered Yveltals. Sadly, I can't share the set now since I cannot use my computer yet.
 
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I saw someone in Hackmons (www.facebook.com, (s)he's really good) with a really cool counter to Gengar Mega. It was a prankster Arceus. Its moveset was designed for a Baton Pass team because that's what (s)he runs, but it could be easily adapted for non Baton Pass BH teams. The important moves were Encore and recovery (and I'm pretty sure it had a +Def/-Atk nature). Basically, it could switch into Gengar and if it used Judgment, then it gets Encore'd into an immune move. If Gengar used Shell Smash, it gets Encore'd into a status move. If Gengar used Secret Sword, it could just Recover off the damage done.

252 SpA Mega Gengar Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 158-188 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The other two moves were Substitute and Baton Pass, the first of which is also semi-useful for countering these Gengars. If they decide to use Spore and you can predict it, you can set up a priority sub and then Encore them into it.
 
Piccolo Daimao said:
I saw someone in Hackmons (www.facebook.com, (s)he's really good) with a really cool counter to Gengar Mega. It was a prankster Arceus. Its moveset was designed for a Baton Pass team because that's what (s)he runs, but it could be easily adapted for non Baton Pass BH teams. The important moves were Encore and recovery (and I'm pretty sure it had a +Def/-Atk nature). Basically, it could switch into Gengar and if it used Judgment, then it gets Encore'd into an immune move. If Gengar used Shell Smash, it gets Encore'd into a status move. If Gengar used Secret Sword, it could just Recover off the damage done.

252 SpA Mega Gengar Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 158-188 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The other two moves were Substitute and Baton Pass, the first of which is also semi-useful for countering these Gengars. If they decide to use Spore and you can predict it, you can set up a priority sub and then Encore them into it.
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Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner

Inb4 prankster taunt gar
 
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