Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[vyomov]

However diggersby's choice sets are where the problems arise. Let's face it, Normal typing is just not very good this meta. Gengar, Skarmory, Aegislash, and many many more Pokemon are able to play around a choiced Diggersby. This is usually where your "prediction" skills come in however it depends on you and your opponent.

Actually, the same holds true the other way - Diggersby can switch in onto a predicted Shadow Ball from Aegislash and can proceed to beat it with EQ, making it an excellent Aegislash check.

The best Diggersby set by far the LO Swords Dance set

Actually, I've been trying out the Scarf set and it is very good - the sheer surprise factor is great, U-Turn makes it a great pivot(especially as it can hit a Lati twin switch in quite hard), and it can then late-game clean with Return or EQ.

I agree with the proposal to move Diggersby to A-, as it is an excellent wallbreaker and a good pivot too. That's not to say it doesn't have shortcomings, but I feel A- fits Diggersby better right now.

 

[FuckSeven]

Actually, the same holds true the other way - Diggersby can switch in onto a predicted Shadow Ball from Aegislash and can proceed to beat it with EQ, making it an excellent Aegislash check.

Exactly. That is the reason why I said "This is usually where your prediction skills come in." It really depends on the players. Aegislash could simply predict the incoming Diggersby and Sacred Sword, or Diggersby could predict the incoming Shadow Ball.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Exactly. That is the reason why I said "This is usually where your prediction skills come in." It really depends on the players. Aegislash could simply predict the incoming Diggersby and Sacred Sword, or Diggersby could predict the incoming Shadow Ball.

Or Aegislash carries an Air Balloon and Diggersby can't do any damage whatsoever :P

 

[Flamebot]

I think Chandlure should move up. Mostly due to its scarf set, being able to check most of the top tier threats, however, I have not used it on PS. Only on Cartridge.
Tho it does have huge disadvantages, like not spin blocking to well, being weak to some of the most common offensive type attacks. However, there are a few things it can wall, and it does check alot of Pokemon.

Maybe it's ranking is fine, but it seems to be better than most things in C imo.

It does get checked by alot too, but it is useful.

It isn't as great of a revenge killer as Deoxys S and Alakzam(Mega and non Mega) or even Talonflame. But it does have a spamable stab in Ghost. And Flash fire is useful(Not so much on a scarf set tho) it can also run on a TR team and be an okay Pokemon.

B- seems like it's alittle to high, Which is what I was going to suggest, but I think it will fit better in C+ instead of just C

 

[QuickBH]

Or Aegislash carries an Air Balloon and Diggersby can't do any damage whatsoever :P

Or Diggersby could carry a chople berry gg.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't consider Diggersby a hard check to Aegislash thanks to the fact that a Sacred Sword screws it over and the aforementioned Air Balloon. I wouldn't make that a huge selling point to Diggersby and I'd rather just talk about how it can 2hko Skarm with a +2 Return and stuff like that.

As a sidenote, I believe Diggersby should stay B+, but I'll refrain from arguing towards my belief.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I think Chandlure should move up. Mostly due to its scarf set, being able to check most of the top tier threats, however, I have not used it on PS. Only on Cartridge.
Tho it does have huge disadvantages, like not spin blocking to well, being weak to some of the most common offensive type attacks. However, there are a few things it can wall, and it does check alot of Pokemon.

Maybe it's ranking is fine, but it seems to be better than most things in C imo.

It does get checked by alot too, but it is useful.

It isn't as great of a revenge killer as Deoxys S and Alakzam(Mega and non Mega) or even Talonflame. But it does have a spamable stab in Ghost. And Flash fire is useful(Not so much on a scarf set tho) it can also run on a TR team and be an okay Pokemon.

B- seems like it's alittle to high, Which is what I was going to suggest, but I think it will fit better in C+ instead of just C

It got rejected for an analysis, so it's likely to go down actually. It's slow and frail, has a poor defensive typing, and is somewhat weak when Scarfed. Most of the time Charizard-Y (who should go down to A imo), Victini, or Heatran is a better choice. Chandy is cool for being powerful and fast when Scarfed, but it is seriously the biggest Ttar bait ever, which is terrible. At least Gengar can Focus Blast it.

 

[Flamebot]

It got rejected for an analysis, so it's likely to go down actually. It's slow and frail, has a poor defensive typing, and is somewhat weak when Scarfed. Most of the time Charizard-Y (whvio should go down to A imo), Victini, or Heatran is a better choice. Chandy is cool for being powerful and fast when Scarfed, but it is seriously the biggest Ttar bait ever, which is terrible. At least Gengar can Focus Blast it.

However, Fire Ghost Is better offensively than Ghost posion, and Fire Physic. It also takes priority better than Gengar. Not to mention all 3 of these are all Tyranitar bait. And I'm pretty sure Gengar doesn't carry Focus miss as often anymore, becuase most people refer to its stall breaker set. However I'm not sure on the usage stats on Focus blast on Gengar.

It can also trick a scarf on to something. I'm surprised it got rejected, looking at some of the Pokemon in the C category.

 

[FuckSeven]

However, Fire Ghost Is better offensively than Ghost posion, and Fire Physic. It also takes priority better than Gengar. Not to mention all 3 of these are all Tyranitar bait. And I'm pretty sure Gengar doesn't carry Focus miss as often anymore, becuase most people refer to its stall breaker set. However I'm not sure on the usage stats on Focus blast on Gengar.

It can also trick a scarf on to something. I'm surprised it got rejected, looking at some of the Pokemon in the C category.

Eh, you need to realize that Chandy had a cool niche in Shadow Tag and now that we don't have that it's not the same Poke it was when it had Shadow Tag. Yeah you have stupid high attack, mixed with the coveted Ghost typing but it's weakness to rocks, and dark types (ttar and bisharp) is unbearable this meta. Especially with all of the priority users and bulky Pokemon in general. Not to mention if you're not running Choice Scarf, you really won't be putting too many dents in your opponents team.

However of course like most other Pokes, it can work. I just don't see it moving up at all.

 

[Aragorn the King]

However, Fire Ghost Is better offensively than Ghost posion, and Fire Physic. It also takes priority better than Gengar. Not to mention all 3 of these are all Tyranitar bait. And I'm pretty sure Gengar doesn't carry Focus miss as often anymore, becuase most people refer to its stall breaker set. However I'm not sure on the usage stats on Focus blast on Gengar.

It can also trick a scarf on to something. I'm surprised it got rejected, looking at some of the Pokemon in the C category.

If Gengar isn't carrying Focus Miss, it's carrying Will-o-Wisp. If Ttar comes in on Gengar to Pursuit trap it, at least Gengar will go down with a fight. Chandelure choice locked into Fire Blast / Shadow Ball has no way to defend itself from Ttar. At all. Also, Char-Y is much less Ttar bait because it can switch out, can Roost off Pursuit damage later, and can Focus Miss it or Earthquake it. Chandelure is helpless. Also, you're right, it is less frail than Gengar. But, Gengar can reliably run a sash, while Chandy is forced to be sashed. I could argue that the water weakness screws with Chandy even more, but tbh Gengar isn't taking any Aqua Jets. Chandy lacks the speed, the ability, and the typing to be as reliable as Gengar, lacks the Speed and Power to be as reliable as Charizard-Y, and lacks the defenses and typing to be as reliable as Heatran.

Also, just to know, what C ranked mons do you think are worse than Chandy?

 

[Skankovich]

Eh, you need to realize that Chandy had a cool niche in Shadow Tag and now that we don't have that it's not the same Poke it was when it had Shadow Tag. Yeah you have stupid high attack, mixed with the coveted Ghost typing but it's weakness to rocks, and dark types (ttar and bisharp) is unbearable this meta. Especially with all of the priority users and bulky Pokemon in general. Not to mention if you're not running Choice Scarf, you really won't be putting too many dents in your opponents team.

However of course like most other Pokes, it can work. I just don't see it moving up at all.

It never actually got shadow tag. I guess gamefreak decided it would be OP and thought it would be much more reasonable to give it to fucking mega gengar loooooolll

 

[Cinco Swift]

I find it incredible that Heliolisk is not even on the list. With a great base 109 he outspeeds many threats and either hits with a powerful volt switch or gains momentum for the team. He also serves as a great check for many threats including but not limited to azumarill manaphy keldeo and rotom-w. I believe Heliolisk is overlooked because of mega manectric but he is far from outclassed as he has a great ability in dry skin that gives him water immunity and has a better move pool along with not taking up a mega slot

 

[Aragorn the King]

I find it incredible that Heliolisk is not even on the list. With a great base 109 he outspeeds many threats and either hits with a powerful volt switch or gains momentum for the team. He also serves as a great check for many threats including but not limited to azumarill manaphy keldeo and rotom-w. I believe Heliolisk is overlooked because of mega manectric but he is far from outclassed as he has a great ability in dry skin that gives him water immunity and has a better move pool along with not taking up a mega slot

He faces large competition from every electric type. He's slow and weak, and usually isn't worth using over Thundurus or Manectric. If you want to use it competitively, I'd suggest you look at RU. Welcome here btw.

 

[Cinco Swift]

He faces large competition from every electric type. He's slow and weak, and usually isn't worth using over

He faces large competition from every electric type. He's slow and weak, and usually isn't worth using over Thundurus or Manectric. If you want to use it competitively, I'd suggest you look at RU. Welcome here btw.

But unlike those 2 he has an immunity to water and even a cool immunity to ghost that could stop a +2 aegislash for sweeping your team. He's very viable in ou and incredibly overlooked. If things like moltres make the list Heliolisk should be on it too.

 

[RotomPoison]

But unlike those 2 he has an immunity to water and even a cool immunity to ghost that could stop a +2 aegislash for sweeping your team. He's very viable in ou and incredibly overlooked. If things like moltres make the list Heliolisk should be on it too.

Implying StanceDance is still a thing (I assume) is never good for your credibility

Heliolisk is 100% outclassed. It seems ok on paper but in practice and application of..l well thought... says otherwise. Moltres is also viable, but you can read its analysis instead of me explaining

 

[Cinco Swift]

Implying StanceDance is still a thing (I assume) is never good for your credibility

Heliolisk is 100% outclassed. It seems ok on paper but in practice and application of..l well thought... says otherwise. Moltres is also viable, but you can read its analysis instead of me explaining

Well first off I was implying weakness policy not SD ... Also Heliolisk is far from outclassed. I don't consider myself even good but I've successful laddered up to over 1800 using Heliolisk which is pretty impressive for me. None of these other electric Pokemon can also stop a +4 azumarill from sweeping either . I've used Heliolisk and I was very impressed with his capabilities. Mega manectric also takes up your mega slot which limits your team building somewhat.

 

[Karxrida]

Well first off I was implying weakness policy not SD ... Also Heliolisk is far from outclassed. I don't consider myself even good but I've successful laddered up to over 1800 using Heliolisk which is pretty impressive for me. None of these other electric Pokemon can also stop a +4 azumarill from sweeping either . I've used Heliolisk and I was very impressed with his capabilities. Mega manectric also takes up your mega slot which limits your team building somewhat.

Do you have any replays of it in action on the higher ladder? They would be very helpful for your argument.

Also, before anyone asks, I still don't have access to my computer to write up my Wall 'O Text. X_X

 

[Albacore]

Well first off I was implying weakness policy not SD ... Also Heliolisk is far from outclassed. I don't consider myself even good but I've successful laddered up to over 1800 using Heliolisk which is pretty impressive for me. None of these other electric Pokemon can also stop a +4 azumarill from sweeping either . I've used Heliolisk and I was very impressed with his capabilities. Mega manectric also takes up your mega slot which limits your team building somewhat.

WP Aegi is garbage lol.

And Heliolisk isn't very good either. As has already been stated, it's pretty much outclassed by Thundurus, Raikou, and MManecrtic as an offensive Electric-type. The only niche it has other those is that it checks Azumarill after a Belly Drum, but it can't switch into it at all given that Play Rough is a clean OHKO. And that's only one Azumarill set. It can't switch into Band either unless you predict the Water move, and actually loses to the Assault Vest set 1v1. Using one Pokemon over another just to check, not even one Pokemon but one specific set that Pokemon can run isn't efficient teambulding at all, especially when far better answers to Azumarill such as Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss are available. Plus, if you really want an offensive Pokemon to act as a check to BD Azumarill, you can easily use something like Thunderbolt Latios, Breloom, even HP Grass Greninja can somewhat work. Same thing applies to Aegislash : sure, Heliolisk can tale a +2 Shadow Sneak, but so can Mandibuzz, Skarmory, Clefable, Garchomp, Clefable, and Gyarados to name a few, and unlike Heliolisk, they aren't OHKO'd by Sacred Sword (Helolish can't even check +2 Aegi if it's still in Shield Forme, in fact, if you don't run Dark Pulse, Thunderbolt isn't even a guaranteed OHKO if Aegi is in Blade Forme) Heliolisk just seems outclassed and doesn't have a good enough niche to really be viable in OU.

oh and it's unwise to bring up ladder peaks on the viability rankings, you wouldn't believe the stuff people are able to climb it with. Just because you can get to the top 100 or even top 10 using a Pokemon doesn't necessarily mean that Pokemon is good or even viable.

 

[Cinco Swift]

Well first off I was implying weakness policy not SD ... Also Heliolisk is far from outclassed. I don't consider myself good but I've successful laddered up to over 1800 using Heliolisk. None of these other electric Pokemon can also stop a +4 azumarill from sweeping either . I've used Heliolisk and I was very impressed with his capabilities.

WP Aegi is garbage lol.

And Heliolisk isn't very good either. As has already been stated, it's pretty much outclassed by Thundurus, Raikou, and MManecrtic as an offensive Electric-type. The only niche it has other those is that it checks Azumarill after a Belly Drum, but it can't switch into it at all given that Play Rough is a clean OHKO. And that's only one Azumarill set. It can't switch into Band either unless you predict the Water move, and actually loses to the Assault Vest set 1v1. Using one Pokemon over another just to check, not even one Pokemon but one specific set that Pokemon can run isn't efficient teambulding at all, especially when far better answers to Azumarill such as Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss are available. Plus, if you really want an offensive Pokemon to act as a check to BD Azumarill, you can easily use something like Thunderbolt Latios, Breloom, even HP Grass Greninja can somewhat work. Same thing applies to Aegislash : sure, Heliolisk can tale a +2 Shadow Sneak, but so can Mandibuzz, Skarmory, Clefable, Garchomp, Clefable, and Gyarados to name a few, and unlike Heliolisk, they aren't OHKO'd by Sacred Sword (Helolish can't even check +2 Aegi if it's still in Shield Forme, in fact, if you don't run Dark Pulse, Thunderbolt isn't even a guaranteed OHKO if Aegi is in Blade Forme) Heliolisk just seems outclassed and doesn't have a good enough niche to really be viable in OU.

oh and it's unwise to bring up ladder peaks on the viability rankings, you wouldn't believe the stuff people are able to climb it with. Just because you can get to the top 100 or even top 10 using a Pokemon doesn't necessarily mean that Pokemon is good or even viable.

After the weakness policy, aegislash should be in range to KO. Also he outspeeds Aegislash so Aegi shouldn't even be able to touch him unless he switches in on a secret sword. All the Pokemon you named to check aegislash and BD Azumarill may check them but none of them can do what Heliolisk does best which is gain momentum or create a favorable matchup using volt switch while hitting hard. Heliolisk also is a great check to rotom-w as he can take a resisted volt switch , absorb a hydro , and doesn't mind a willowisp Too much. Heliolisk just like all other Pokemon just has to be utilized to his strengths to be viable in Ou which he is.

 

[QuickBH]

After the weakness policy, aegislash should be in range to KO. Also he outspeeds Aegislash so Aegi shouldn't even be able to touch him unless he switches in on a secret sword. All the Pokemon you named to check aegislash and BD Azumarill may check them but none of them can do what Heliolisk does best which is gain momentum or create a favorable matchup using volt switch while hitting hard. Heliolisk also is a great check to rotom-w as he can take a resisted volt switch , absorb a hydro , and doesn't mind a willowisp Too much. Heliolisk just like all other Pokemon just has to be utilized to his strengths to be viable in Ou which he is.

Yes but besides BD Azumarill Mega Manectric hits a lot harder and still has the same momentum, as mentioned earlier you can do a ton of other things to check Azumarill to where Heliolisk is extremely outclassed. Unless you can bring me some replays from the 1800+ ladder to what else Heliolisk can do but not Mega Manectric than please show it, otherwise, it would be highly advised to stop this conversation.

 

[Cinco Swift]

replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-91436973

Yes but besides BD Azumarill Mega Manectric hits a lot harder and still has the same momentum, as mentioned earlier you can do a ton of other things to check Azumarill to where Heliolisk is extremely outclassed. Unless you can bring me some replays from the 1800+ ladder to what else Heliolisk can do but not Mega Manectric than please show it, otherwise, it would be highly advised to stop this conversation.

 

[tyking1224]

"None of them can do what Heliolisk does best which is gain momentum or create a favorable matchup while hitting hard."

Something tells me you don't know anything about some of these Pokemon because that's what MegaManectric and Raikou can and usually do. Volt Switch is standard on both Pokemon (aside from CM Raikou), and both Pokemon use their superior speed and power to do exactly as you said, gain momentum while hitting hard, with MegaMan having the added benefit of using Intimidate to possibly cripple an opposing Pokemon.

As for Thundurus, his two abilities make him better because he can either use Defiant to help punish Defogging whereas Prankster can allow him to completely hinder sweeps with T-Wave, along with a multitude of other options.

If this was Gen V, Heliolisk would most certainly be OU viable, but, in Gen VI, he's just too outclassed when compared to the other Electric types in the tier who either outclass him completely in his role or have different roles that are more preferred, which means that Heliolisk is generally not worth it.

 

[Flamer]

I find it incredible that Heliolisk is not even on the list. With a great base 109 he outspeeds many threats and either hits with a powerful volt switch or gains momentum for the team. He also serves as a great check for many threats including but not limited to azumarill manaphy keldeo and rotom-w. I believe Heliolisk is overlooked because of mega manectric but he is far from outclassed as he has a great ability in dry skin that gives him water immunity and has a better move pool along with not taking up a mega slot

Yeah maybe in theory Heliolisk sounds good but in practise he will be a prick in the opponents ass at best. It can only check specific variants of Azumarill (Can take a T-Bolt and destroy with Play Rough/ Superpower) and Keldeo (Keld can run Scarf and KO with Secret), Manaphy and Washtom are rarely seen and quite easily checked by a large amount of more useful mons. Not only this, thin defenses mean that it can barely stand up to resisted hits and combined with a much needed Life Orb, its going to die pretty quickly. Also, Stancedance and WP Aegi are both pretty useless outclassed and rarely seen in high-level play. If you don't want to use your Mega on Megaman, use Raikou, saying Helios not outclassed because one of the many Pokemon who're better than it is a mega is not a valid arguement.

Oh btw FuckSeven harshly abusing someone in one of your first posts on the site really doesn't get you anywhere and will leave a lasting impression that you're a dick, ignoring the fact that the bold claim you directed at Karxrida isn't even accurate. And no, Char Y can barely deal with Tran, TTar or Chansey as both Tran and TTar KO easily and Flare Blitz will kill you before you kill Chansey. Not only that, it cannot afford to run those (Especially Brick Break, where have you ever seen a Zard Y with that, low ladder doesn't count) as well as staples like Fire Blast, Roost and Solar Beam.

 

[FuckSeven]

Yeah maybe in theory Heliolisk sounds good but in practise he will be a prick in the opponents ass at best. It can only check specific variants of Azumarill (Can take a T-Bolt and destroy with Play Rough/ Superpower) and Keldeo (Keld can run Scarf and KO with Secret), Manaphy and Washtom are rarely seen and quite easily checked by a large amount of more useful mons. Not only this, thin defenses mean that it can barely stand up to resisted hits and combined with a much needed Life Orb, its going to die pretty quickly. Also, Stancedance and WP Aegi are both pretty useless outclassed and rarely seen in high-level play. If you don't want to use your Mega on Megaman, use Raikou, saying Helios not outclassed because one of the many Pokemon who're better than it is a mega is not a valid arguement.

Oh btw FuckSeven harshly abusing someone in one of your first posts on the site really doesn't get you anywhere and will leave a lasting impression that you're a dick, ignoring the fact that the bold claim you directed at Karxrida isn't even accurate. And no, Char Y can barely deal with Tran, TTar or Chansey as both Tran and TTar KO easily and Flare Blitz will kill you before you kill Chansey. Not only that, it cannot afford to run those (Especially Brick Break, where have you ever seen a Zard Y with that, low ladder doesn't count) as well as staples like Fire Blast, Roost and Solar Beam.

Well this is the second time someone is bringing this up. Go back and read and you will see I didn't "abuse" him. I just had a hard time believing someone who made such bold claims could have an actual understanding of the OU metagame. He already said that he was "overzealous" and didn't mean to say Zard-Y should move to Rank C, so I left it there. karxridaI want to apologize if you actually feel like i'm "abusing" you. From my standpoint i'm literally just pointing out facts.


"And no, Char Y can barely deal with Tran, TTar or Chansey as both Tran and TTar KO easily and Flare Blitz will kill you before you kill Chansey."

I'm sorry but... Char Y can barely deal with Heatran? I'm sure that I don't need to bring up the calcs, but:

0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 284-336 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So i'm not exactly sure how you're beating a Charizard-Y with Heatran (Or even reliably switching a Heatran into a Charizard-Y) unless you're running Stone Miss or Ancient Power which is extremely unviable on a Pokemon such as Heatran in this meta. (Which is ironic because apparently Zard-Y can't afford to run moves such as Brick Break to weaken Tyranitar switches.) As for Tyranitar, yes It is an incredibly nice counter to Zard-Y in most cases. I don't want to elaborate on Brick Break because it is again extremely unreliable this meta as well and like you said, very rarely seen.

As for Chansey. Physical Zard-Y is most definitely a thing that a lot of competitive I know use. (I occasionally use it and I can vouch for it's usefulness.)

252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Usually Chansey switches into Zards to absorb the Special move but a Flare Blitz can be devastating to any switch in. I would also like to mention that un-invested Naive Charizard-Y still hits a 354 Special Attack, which still nets a lot of useful KOs and is impressive overall, if you ask me.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Physical Zard-Y is most definitely a thing that a lot of competitive I know use.

Like who? Cause I have honestly never seen a Flare Blitz Y-zard, and the concept seems dumb tbh cause:
-Flare Blitz hits exactly one thing
-That one thing will deal a majority of your health back in recoil damage.

 

[LZH14]

Keep in mind, that Flare Blitz is invested. Which means that either it's not running speed or SpA.