Yeah Vaporeon should be ranked in D rank because it isn't really viable in OU. However since it is OU usage stats wise it should be ranked like Donphan used to be ranked even when it wasn't viable.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
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Yeah Vaporeon should be ranked in D rank because it isn't really viable in OU. However since it is OU usage stats wise it should be ranked like Donphan used to be ranked even when it wasn't viable.
scolipede isnt niche, it is in fact far from niche. it can still run quickpass, not to mention that great LO cleaner set. I actually did argue it into A- before this shitstorm, but feel free to explain why its niche.
Vaporeon is awful. There's almost nothing it can do that's done better by something else.
Scolipede is actually pretty cool. The B+ ranking is not because of its role in full Baton Pass chains, but because of its offensive LO set, lead set, and quickpass set. And it'll be required in 3-mon chains, which you know will be a thing :)
Its niche because Speed Boost is the only reason its even remotely viable. There are better and more reliable choices for lategame cleaning like Deo-S, Talonflame or what not. Without Protect to stall for boosts the ability isnt that great anyway and then there is all the priority that shits on speed boost. Scolipede just screams mediocrity, base 100 attack leaves alot to be desired, its defenses are pretty bad as well, its typing leaves it with many common weaknesses. Agree with Ninja Charizard here, if anything it should move down after BP beeing banned, it will maintain its niche on quickpass but outside of it i dont see it performing all that well.
While flame can run band deoxys S can't and both have lower attack stats. (Not saying it's better then either but base 100 attack is far from bad for a late game cleaner)
Wasn't Scolipede B+ before the rise of BP? Or do I just lack any sense of time? IIRC there was LO offensive which hurt like a bitch and quickpassing speed. I don't remember the actual set but I think it was able to do this:
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 307-367 (100.9 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
infract in 5...
how the eff did we start talking about darmanitan stahppppp
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 307-367 (100.9 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
infract in 5...
how the eff did we start talking about darmanitan stahppppp
If something with speed boost making it viable is extremely niche, why is blazekin uber. You might say ninjask, but scolipede has better power and bulk, a usable second STAB, a better bug STAB, spikes, iron defense and a better defensive typing.
You contradicted yourself there. Late game cleaning is when youve removed the checks/counters of a specific Mon and go for the sweep. If youre trying to sweep with Scolipede when Talonflame is still out and about, well, youre using him wrong.
"Azumarill is niche because Huge Power is the only reason it's even remotely viable"
?_?
Yeah, if we take away one of Scolipede's greatest features, it's mediocre. Same with every single pokemon. Chansey would be shit without its titanic bulk. Ferrothorn would be nowhere without its steel typing. Kabutops would be nowhere without Swift Swim.
Deo-S and Talonflame are A+ and S ranked. Don't compare them to something that's being argued for B+. Unless Scolipede is utterly and hopelessly eclipsed them them, comparisons to things that are in higher rankings, which are already agreed upon to be more viable, are not apt.
Fortunately, Scolipede is not hopelessly and utterly eclipsed by them. Talonflame and Deo-S are not able to OHKO Deo-D. Talonflame is countered by Tyranitar, whereas Scolipede checks it. Deo-S is checked by Aegislash unless it carries Knock Off or Fire Punch, but even then there's King's Shield; Scolipede has Earthquake, it doesn't have to worry about KS and can KO a weakened Aegislash or at least dent it.
So good thing it has Protect?
The existence of priority does not make speed an inconsequential stat; it is still really important. The number of things without priority is greater than the things that do; and if we're treating Talonflame, Deo-S and Scolipede as lategame cleaners, you're obviously not going to attempt to clean when T-Tar, Aegislash, and Talonflame are still alive. Speed Boost is a really powerful ability that made a previously mediocre pokemon a top threat in ubers: speed matters.
Every single thing here applies to Talonflame, who you just compared it to ._. it actually has lower attack, it has horrid defenses (and it relies on recoil moves,) and it has weaknesses to common types.
It does, however, have better coverage from STABs, Gale Wings, Wisp, Roost, and U-Turn. So it's more viable than Scolipede. But it does not eclipse it.
Have you ever used LO Scolipede?
Also Talonflame and Deo-S can't quickpass :)
All right. I just deleted roughly 18 posts that were on the topic of Darmanitan and Heliolisk. Both of which don't have a true niche in the tier that isn't already filled by something else. Stop discussing both of these. I will have handed out an infraction, I don't want to have to hand out more.
Thank you.
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I'll post later about moving a few things up or down.
Thank you.
________
I'll post later about moving a few things up or down.
ty based subject
but anyways, i believe mega alakazam needs some discussion. it is really fucking powerful, has trace so it can fuck with sand and rain offense, can use taunt to just shit on stall teams, and can outspeed the entire unboosted meta sans mega manectric and deo-s with a modest nature, and all the support it needs is a pursuit user and something to kill talonflame with, because it survives all unboosted priority bar talonflame. I think its more comparable to things like mega medicham and mega gardevoir tbh, its just that good(and underrated.)
but anyways, i believe mega alakazam needs some discussion. it is really fucking powerful, has trace so it can fuck with sand and rain offense, can use taunt to just shit on stall teams, and can outspeed the entire unboosted meta sans mega manectric and deo-s with a modest nature, and all the support it needs is a pursuit user and something to kill talonflame with, because it survives all unboosted priority bar talonflame. I think its more comparable to things like mega medicham and mega gardevoir tbh, its just that good(and underrated.)
Scoliopede can also get away with running Adamant so it hits about as hard as Banded Talonflame (I think? Fucking iPod so can't calc X_X).
Edit @ Above: You forgot Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, ScarfChomp, Aerialate Quick Attack, Extreme Speed, etc.
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 593-697 (154.4 - 181.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 596-704 (155.2 - 183.3%)
Talonflame hits slightly harder.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 596-704 (155.2 - 183.3%)
Talonflame hits slightly harder.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 270-318 (103.4 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 266-316 (101.9 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
slightly weaker, but not by much.
EDIT: Ninja'd
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chespin: 296-350 (93.6 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chespin: 291-346 (92 - 109.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
it's only marginally weaker, but the difference is negligible anyway
Edit: lol double ninja'd
lol I think we've successfully established that Scolipede can hit pretty hard
but yeah, hitting just about as hard as talonflame and there's really nothing relevant that you miss out on with that literally 4 points of damage difference (i think)
i think scolipede is fine in b+, hits pretty hard and gets up to speed, has notable checks and counters, has a pair of niches in LO attacker (can ohko deo-d with 252/4) and quick passing is pretty cool
but yeah, hitting just about as hard as talonflame and there's really nothing relevant that you miss out on with that literally 4 points of damage difference (i think)
i think scolipede is fine in b+, hits pretty hard and gets up to speed, has notable checks and counters, has a pair of niches in LO attacker (can ohko deo-d with 252/4) and quick passing is pretty cool
Offensive Scolipede has the niche of playing mind games around Protect and eventually catching up (in speed) with set-up sweepers. It also is one of the best and reliable offensive Deoxys-S checks, as it can outspeed after one turn of Speed Boost.
On the other hand, it hit's suprisingly hard, as proven by the posters above. It struggles to do anything to physically defensive walls like Skarmory and Mega Scizor, which is one of the few things slowing it down. I think it is fine in B+ where it is atm, since it's good versus offense, but struggles to deal with bulkier pokes.
On the other hand, it hit's suprisingly hard, as proven by the posters above. It struggles to do anything to physically defensive walls like Skarmory and Mega Scizor, which is one of the few things slowing it down. I think it is fine in B+ where it is atm, since it's good versus offense, but struggles to deal with bulkier pokes.
Blaziken could switch into something that it can threaten out, unboosted, with Flare Blitz (or High Jump Kick if there are no Ghosts of if they you are willing to risk an Aegislash switch in as you are threatening to Flare Blitz the switch) or threaten a Swords Dance. Blaziken, unlike Talonflame, is neutral to Stealth Rock and can repeatedly do this with little team support such as Rapid Spin and Defog support; entry hazard support, which are somewhat ubiquitous and perhaps on can use dual Stealth Rock users to reliable pressure teams with Talonflame, not only assists Blaziken from getting KOs but deters Talonflame. After a Speed Boost, a neutral nature max speed EVs outspeeds most of the unboosted tier (up to Jolly Weavile, at base 125, to be precise) and I think Jolly can outspeed Mega Manectric; this is something that Infernape, with a similar STAB combo and slightly weaker offensive stats cannot do. Blaziken can be considered somewhat of a Scarf user but without the Choice lock for its amazing stabs as it is not merely a revenger killer, but a deadly sweeper too. Still, it is easy to get a +1 without any set-up, and it could just retreat if it is threaten to begin, this again.
Scolilipide has a Stealth Rock weakness, and more importantly, less threatening STABs.
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I don't think anyone is arguing that Scolipede is as good as Blaziken lol. Blaziken was broken beyond reason, Scolipede is just sort of good. Their only similarity is Speed Boost.
And Baton Pass lol.
and Protect!
I quoted someone who questioned why Blaziken is Uber and presumably why Scolipede is instead in the realm of the mortals of OU.
I actually meant that if speed boost is the thing that makes something viable, that isn't a bad thing. I used blazekin as an example of a pokemon that speed boost makes better. I know blazekin is better. He was mediocre before.
Mega zam is awesome I agree, it screws over offence by tracing things such as a lando I's sheer force, it has insane speed even with modest and it's special attack is uber like. It screws over stall with taunt and it is also great against balance (what isn't). I could see it moving to B but not B+. Its good and wrecks teams but needs a lot of support. i think its more comparable to mega cross and suicune than stuff like mega cham and gliscor. Its good but needs a lot of support, but IMO it should move to B.
Nominating Infernape for B-.
I feel like Infernape is a little underrated. It has really great versatility, a great movepool, and a nice speed tier, while being able to run a multitude of Choiced and mixed sets, and is able to set up rocks and function as a dedicated lead. Hell, Nog even used a physically defensive Will-O-Wisp set! I know that a lot of common priority shits all over the monkey, and that it isn't the most powerful Pokemon out there, but that is why I'm not gunning for A rank or something. Also, Infernape is one of the few offensive fire types without a SR weakness.
I'd like to compare Infernape(in C Rank) to Absol-Mega(B- Rank).
They are both fail, fast mixed wall breakers with weaknesses to common priority. Absol has an infinitely better speed tier and a better ability, but Infernape hits harder with a Life Orb and doesn't take up a mega spot, while being able to set up rocks. Infernape is even more versatile and has access to Rocks.
I honestly don't think that Infernape had sunk so low as to be in C Rank with super outclassed shit like Blissey and weak as fuck niche stuff like Venomoth.
TL;DR Infernape is really versatile and has a great movepool(coverage, SR) and can wall break with decent offenses and great coverage move up please.
I feel like Infernape is a little underrated. It has really great versatility, a great movepool, and a nice speed tier, while being able to run a multitude of Choiced and mixed sets, and is able to set up rocks and function as a dedicated lead. Hell, Nog even used a physically defensive Will-O-Wisp set! I know that a lot of common priority shits all over the monkey, and that it isn't the most powerful Pokemon out there, but that is why I'm not gunning for A rank or something. Also, Infernape is one of the few offensive fire types without a SR weakness.
I'd like to compare Infernape(in C Rank) to Absol-Mega(B- Rank).
They are both fail, fast mixed wall breakers with weaknesses to common priority. Absol has an infinitely better speed tier and a better ability, but Infernape hits harder with a Life Orb and doesn't take up a mega spot, while being able to set up rocks. Infernape is even more versatile and has access to Rocks.
I honestly don't think that Infernape had sunk so low as to be in C Rank with super outclassed shit like Blissey and weak as fuck niche stuff like Venomoth.
TL;DR Infernape is really versatile and has a great movepool(coverage, SR) and can wall break with decent offenses and great coverage move up please.
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