While we are on the subject of Politoed, is running a wallbreaker SpecsToed still viable? This Toed functions less of a team player and uses the rain to wallbreak for itself. Furthermore, Toed has access to Focus Blast and Psychic to take care of Ferrothorn and M-Venusaur and toxicroak to allow stuff like Megados or CM Keldeo to sweep more easily
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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In all honesty I think Politoed for the most part should be utilizing Damp Rock. It's as Valmanway mentioned already, the rain is for the most part to support team mates and make things that are normally not as threatening under normal conditions such as Kabutops and Kingdra, into devastating monsters under rain. I'm sure it may be viable but those extra turns of rain (or weather in general) can be a game changer for anyone utilizing it.
Kind of a nitpick but
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 152-180 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 4 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 252-298 (62.3 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If it has any previous damage, it doesn't beat variants (which are very much a thing). Also Azu has to be careful because of flame body. So even if it wins, it can be burned, which leaves it useless for the rest of the battle. I overall agree with your point, but I don't think Azu is a hard check like you're making it out to be.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 224-266 (59.8 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 450-530 (120.3 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And that's not even getting into possible SR damage! :P
Just to say, the calc with Azumarill is fair if counting the idea of BD Azumarill.....which isn't mentioned in the slightest there by axel.
CB Azu:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 224-266 (59.8 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Is much better as it can actually out damage the Volcaronas Giga Drain (although it will most likely go for the OHKO as Azumarill wouldn't have anything to fear from said Volc without a minimum of two boosts) since Azumarill are known to run max speed so they aren't outsped by Heatran of all things.
The AV set though I don't know much about (cause really, all I seem to run into are CB and BD sets. didn't even know people ran a third set) but the matchup between the two can be very interesting if Azumarill has had any prior damage and isn't running speed as a CB set so there is that.
The Aqua Jet still cannot Ohko. If Azumarill is at about 60% health, it loses. So it's not a hard check.
He actually does mention it being able to revenge kill, but that's pretty irrelevant because nobody in their right mind wouldn't immediately go to their Azumarill when they see a Volcarona. If it is revenging, then Volca probably has a few boosts, to where
+2 4 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 336-396 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's almost a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Max Speed Azu doesn't beat it if Volcarona has at least one boost.
Assault Vest shits all over though, but again, you always have to watch out for the burn.
I honestly don't even know why I got into this debate, I agree with what he's saying, Volca is horrible in this metagame. I guess it's one of those things where "somebody is wrong on the internet, I must correct them" or something like that.
I was just interested in the topic really. Was more interested in being wrong as Volc never gets enough love from people to begin with so some discussion seemed better than nothing.
I would like to just throw my two cents in on Hippowdon moving up to A+. He has come a long way ranking wise since we had to first get him out of B ranking a rank at a time, and think it would be a wise idea as stated in reasons posted on the last page more specifically.
Well Banded Azumarill is kind of a waste of that sexy sexy typing both offensively (switching up moves with BD) or defensively (Assault Vest). So I don't think it's exactly fair to calc that against anything lol.
As for Volcarona, I really don't like running max bulk on anything that is supposed to be sweeping with it's speed and power...I would much rather just use the only set on Volcarona I would ever use: Passho Berry with Quiver Dance / Fiery Dance / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Ground or Rock. This set is somewhat effective since it can actually set up on Keldeo and prevents being revenge killed by Azumarill. Bug Buzz doesn't really hit much notable besides Latios/Latias and Tyranitar, but the Latis are super easy to lure and/or trap and Ttar beats you anyways unless you're at +2. Not really commenting on what rank Volc should be but I certainly think it's more viable than Infernape (lol stfu nog you troll).
As for Volcarona, I really don't like running max bulk on anything that is supposed to be sweeping with it's speed and power...I would much rather just use the only set on Volcarona I would ever use: Passho Berry with Quiver Dance / Fiery Dance / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Ground or Rock. This set is somewhat effective since it can actually set up on Keldeo and prevents being revenge killed by Azumarill. Bug Buzz doesn't really hit much notable besides Latios/Latias and Tyranitar, but the Latis are super easy to lure and/or trap and Ttar beats you anyways unless you're at +2. Not really commenting on what rank Volc should be but I certainly think it's more viable than Infernape (lol stfu nog you troll).
True but let's say I am not running a rain team and I want a powerful water type special attacker that can kill Ferro and Venu would Politoed be a good choice?
That's awfully specific, especially since those two mons are used specifically to counter water types lol.
Uhh HP Fire+Extrasensory Greninja.
Hidden Power Flying Keldeo does that.
There is nothing "lol" about it. Pokemon that command an entire playstyle are usually put in A or S rank. This is why we have stuff like Deoxys-D in S rank and Chansey in A.
Espeon commands a playstyle that has managed to be suspected, nerfed and remain viable after the nerf.
Putting Espeon in A rank is not an exaggeration at all, unless you're one of those who think that the only legitimate playstyles are the holy trinity of HO, balance and stall.
I support Hippowdon for A+. Although it does often need to be a full health to tackle what it's supposed to, which is its greatest flaw, its defining trait is that it tailored to beat specific threats ranging from Band Terrakion to Charizard-Y. The fact that it can check both Pinsir and Aegislash with the same spread is also pretty impressive. He's also pretty easy to fit on balanced teams due to his access to Stealth Rock. The rise of Sand Rush Excadrill benefits him doubly, because not only does he provide sand for bulkier Sand teams which prefer him to Tyranitar, he also deals with opposing sand teams pretty well, especially if it's a Sand Force variant (which is usually chosen if Sand Rush conflicts with another Pokemon on the team like Dragonite or Venusaur), although he can't really beat Excadrill if it carries an Air Balloon instead of a Life Orb.
As for Heatran, I think what stops it from being A+ worthy to me is its 4MSS. It wants Rocks, Lava Plume, Toxic/WoW, Roar/Taunt, Earth Power, possibly Stone Edge/Ancientpower and Protect (this last one is actually really important since it gives you a way to get health back as well as rack up status damage, stall out weather and scout for choice-locked Pokemon). This means it can't really deal with everything it wants to with the same set. However, it still has a great typing and solid bulk with really important resistances, as well as a few good sets besides the standard specially defensive one, including Scarf, Specs and offensive SR setter with Air Balloon, so it may well be worth moving to A+.
As for Heatran, I think what stops it from being A+ worthy to me is its 4MSS. It wants Rocks, Lava Plume, Toxic/WoW, Roar/Taunt, Earth Power, possibly Stone Edge/Ancientpower and Protect (this last one is actually really important since it gives you a way to get health back as well as rack up status damage, stall out weather and scout for choice-locked Pokemon). This means it can't really deal with everything it wants to with the same set. However, it still has a great typing and solid bulk with really important resistances, as well as a few good sets besides the standard specially defensive one, including Scarf, Specs and offensive SR setter with Air Balloon, so it may well be worth moving to A+.
Erm may I ask how does Hippo check Zard-y at all besides removing sun? I'm quite sure Zard-y can still 2HKO with fire blast given Hippo doesn't have the greatest special defense
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 186-219 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And you OHKO with Stone Edge. Yes, that's very close to a 2HKO and any chip damage will stop you from countering, but that's the thing with Hippowdon : it counters a lot of stuff at full health, but only barely, which is by far its biggest issue.
Not to mention that after setting sand it can switch out into a water type. I love SpDef Hippo and it can slack off almost anything unboosted but then it gets walled by quite a few things and most notably Scizor. It may be good on Sand Rush teams but it can also come as a burden against opposing Sand Rush teams since it sets sand for Balloon Drill which walls it too. I would love to see it at A+ because it does it's job so well but it's just inneffective against a lot of things making it require checks to Keldeo, Azumarill, Scizor, Gliscor. It doesn't like to be Toxic'd by walls and even Skarmory sets a load of Spikes in it's face. Hippowdon is amazing when combined with the right teammates, but a support mon which requires support itself doesn't warrant A+ imo.
And it needs a fully specially defensive spread to counter so Hippo loses out on checking a lot of physical attackers
And that issue is enough to stop it moving to A. The fact that it needs to be full health to check all the things it does really hampers at its potential. Deosharp teams with rocks and spike stacking chip away at huge chunks of hippos health which just destroy its ability to take the threats it is supposed to. Yes its good, but the fact that it needs to be at full health to check the things its supposed to really prevents it from being an A+ pokemon.
We were talking about offensive Volcarona, defensive sets are horrible.
Hippowdon is interesting in the fact that the bulk is enough to allow it to counter just about anything, but in exchange you need full health. It doesn't take much from entry hazards, so that generally isn't an issue. I still don't see Hippowdon being better than A- because of this issue but that's an issue stall teams face with it, balance doesn't mind at all. And to be honest, Hippo isn't my first though for counter to ZardY, that's just extra utility.
Really? I thought defensive Volcarona was the norm, at least it was back in gen 5. Any particular reason why it is bad?
i think its because even though its bulky, it still dies to the priority its weak to.
Now I'm lolin at how serious you are. To compare baton pass to stall or HO in terms of viability is dumb af. The latter two are much more consistent and less match up reliant. Plus they require much more thought than "hmm what stat do I want to boost next". You can continue your futile arguments all you want but Espeon is never going near A.
Baton Pass is the strongest playstyle in the OU metagame at the moment whether we like it or not, you obviously don't like BP but that doesn't mean it should not be ranked because of your personal feelings.
If by consistent you mean 'consistent at getting wins' then I would say Baton Pass is more consistent since it can win against any team/playstyle, even teams full of supposed counters and checks.
Oh please don't be that guy, it has been proven times and times again that BP is not a mindless boosting just for fun playstyle and that it actually requires prediction and knowledge of the different sets each OU threat can run.
If BP was as mindless as you seem to believe then Denissss wouldn't be the only BP player to reach top ladder.
And tbh, even if it was mindless, Mega Khan was mindless but would you rank it B+ if it was still OU ?
Now this just smells of bias and "running away from arguments" type of mentality, you claim to be "lolin at how serious he is" when you seem the one who's jimmies have been rustled brah. ;]
You should start looking at this in a non-biased way, BP is the most successful playstyle in OU atm whether we like it or not (I don't like it personally) and Scolipede and Espeon are what is keeping it as viable as it is right now (just like the deos with DeoSharp HO)
Think about it mate.
Absol doesn't have Stored Power.
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