I never thought much of Hawlucha, but that is a pretty standard team and nothing stood a chance. Very scary, although any priority user could have probably stopped it from that amount of health.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
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I never thought much of Hawlucha, but that is a pretty standard team and nothing stood a chance. Very scary, although any priority user could have probably stopped it from that amount of health.
hawlucha had 64% health in that replay
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 153-180 (51.3 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 104-123 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 116-136 (38.9 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 102-120 (34.2 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
ice shard does a shit ton though while smogon bird and mega pinsir 1hko it with priority
I guess I underestimated its bulk. Thought Aqua Jet at least would be doing way more than that.
I wouldn't mind seeing Mew in A-, it's very versatile and fast for a bulky support Pokemon with good stats and reliable recovery. A very large movepool allowing it to do pretty much anything it wants to do. It can be used as a lead, support mon, baton pass and even offensive to catch things off guard but the support set it's really what makes it so good as it wrecks stall and is dangerous when paired with Pokemon like Charizard Y. It can also pave way for other things to sweep. Nothing really wants to stay in on it Azumarill, Scizor, Excadrill, Tyranitar, or any other physical attacker besides Zard X and walls can't touch it either and I know it's too early for this but with Aegislash gone it really does help Mew a lot.
Despite all the "aegislash just got unbanned stahp hyping" posts, i will indeed be hyping and nominating something right now:
Bisharp to A, if not A-
Now I believe that i'm not really doing what I just said because we had two long weeks of suspect test laddering and a few more days too as there were a few days in between deo-d/s ban and aegi suspect starting.
Bisharp usage has dropped sharper than mega heracross's horns man. Lemme just break this down very simply:
There were two reasons to use bisharp, and everything else it does is pretty outclassed imo:
1) Abuse defog and effectively keep hazards up
2) Trap and deal with aegislash.
Now lets address these two points:
1) With the ban of deo-d/s, there's really nothing that can effectively set hazards as they did. The thing is, effective HO leads like SR SD garchomp and taunt sr Terrak still exist, but here's the difference: they only set up rocks. There's a massive difference between rocks and rocks+spikes, and the pressure on the player to clear hazards is also exponentially higher. Without the application of such pressure on the player to remove hazards (that rocks alone cannot apply) there's a much higher chance that the player will simply ignore it or just end the match before hazards really even need to disappear. So without an effective hazard setter, one of the reasons to use bisharp really goes down. The only real way to still abuse bisharp in this regard is to use it on a sticky webs team; a sticky web alone can seriously pressure HO teams to remove them ASAP and bisharp will still shine on those teams.
2) Yeah once aegislash is gone, the best mon to pursuit trap it, bisharp, will also really drop in usage. These pokemon are often paired alongside mega hera, mega garde, mega cham, etc etc because when you remove aegislash these partners really rum rampant. I do agree that bisharp naturally just removes ghosts and fairies for mega medicham anyway (much better than ttar can deal with fairies), but my points about the other two apply still. Basically, the support of removing aegislash is no longer necessary as it is banned, and thus mega hera, mega garde, and mega cham can thrive on their own.
So yeah bisharp has little use outside if mega cham and webs teams and should thus be dropped to A, if not A-. rip
Bisharp to A, if not A-
Now I believe that i'm not really doing what I just said because we had two long weeks of suspect test laddering and a few more days too as there were a few days in between deo-d/s ban and aegi suspect starting.
Bisharp usage has dropped sharper than mega heracross's horns man. Lemme just break this down very simply:
There were two reasons to use bisharp, and everything else it does is pretty outclassed imo:
1) Abuse defog and effectively keep hazards up
2) Trap and deal with aegislash.
Now lets address these two points:
1) With the ban of deo-d/s, there's really nothing that can effectively set hazards as they did. The thing is, effective HO leads like SR SD garchomp and taunt sr Terrak still exist, but here's the difference: they only set up rocks. There's a massive difference between rocks and rocks+spikes, and the pressure on the player to clear hazards is also exponentially higher. Without the application of such pressure on the player to remove hazards (that rocks alone cannot apply) there's a much higher chance that the player will simply ignore it or just end the match before hazards really even need to disappear. So without an effective hazard setter, one of the reasons to use bisharp really goes down. The only real way to still abuse bisharp in this regard is to use it on a sticky webs team; a sticky web alone can seriously pressure HO teams to remove them ASAP and bisharp will still shine on those teams.
2) Yeah once aegislash is gone, the best mon to pursuit trap it, bisharp, will also really drop in usage. These pokemon are often paired alongside mega hera, mega garde, mega cham, etc etc because when you remove aegislash these partners really rum rampant. I do agree that bisharp naturally just removes ghosts and fairies for mega medicham anyway (much better than ttar can deal with fairies), but my points about the other two apply still. Basically, the support of removing aegislash is no longer necessary as it is banned, and thus mega hera, mega garde, and mega cham can thrive on their own.
So yeah bisharp has little use outside if mega cham and webs teams and should thus be dropped to A, if not A-. rip
Usage =/= Viability, and Bisharp is really fucking viable. Can't elaborate atm cause I'm on my phone, but Bisharp is fucking amazing even with Aegislash gone and shouldn't be any lower than A if it does drop.
Aegislash has been banned for like...less than a day? Everybody needs to chill out with some of these rankings, also lol @ dropping Bisharp for such vague reasons. That being said, Mega Heracross literally has no reason not to be A- anymore now that it doesn't have to run Earthquake anymore.
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Copypasting my post from the Suspect thread since I'm tired and it still applies here for Bisharp.
"Defiant is the only way to punish Defog and can turn the tide of a battle immediately, with the bonus of turning Intimidaters like Lando-T into completely liabilities. STAB +2 Knock Off is something that very little wants to switch into and the few that can stomach it have to be wary of a +2 Iron Head. It can Pursuit trap like T-Tar but without killing momentum since it doesn't need a Scarf to threaten the Latis and can decide to go 'lol Swords Dance' and sweep."
"Defiant is the only way to punish Defog and can turn the tide of a battle immediately, with the bonus of turning Intimidaters like Lando-T into completely liabilities. STAB +2 Knock Off is something that very little wants to switch into and the few that can stomach it have to be wary of a +2 Iron Head. It can Pursuit trap like T-Tar but without killing momentum since it doesn't need a Scarf to threaten the Latis and can decide to go 'lol Swords Dance' and sweep."
Lemme elaborate on the Bisharp drop a little further so I don't come off an asshole, even though I am: Bisharp is nasty powerful. Bisharp wasn't even a good check to Deoxys-S or Aegislash, since you were playing around with speedy Sacred Swords, and had to rely heavily upon Sucker Punch predictions, or the Deo-S would set up Hazards on you. What makes Bisharp A+ is the fact that nothing truly checks it. There is no pokemon in the tier that enjoys having their item knocked off, and even Megas don't appreciate taking hazard damage + Stab Knock Off.
I don't really understand the Pursuit argument, because frankly there's still plenty of shit Bisharp can trap, namely Lati@s, who are going to spike in usage now that Aegislash is gone, and Bisharp traps them WAY better than Aegislash.
I don't really understand the Pursuit argument, because frankly there's still plenty of shit Bisharp can trap, namely Lati@s, who are going to spike in usage now that Aegislash is gone, and Bisharp traps them WAY better than Aegislash.
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Okay, I'd like to suggest Heatran for A+ (Nothing to do with the Aegi ban btw).
I think someone actually suggested this change a while back and I was opposed to it, simply because I felt that its defensive capabilities were on par with the likes of Hippowdon and Ferrothorn, and that even though its defensive typing is really good (especially pared up with Flash Fire) and it's pretty much the best rock setter in the game, it suffers from 4MSS and lack of recovery makes it easy to wear down.
Now, I stand by Heatran being on par with other A ranks for its defensive capabilities, but I've been using offensive Heatran sets a lot and they are, if anything, even better than the defensive sets.
Firstly, the Offensive Air Balloon set which is really good on offensive teams since not only is it a stellar rock setter (the balloon forces a ton of great opportunities to get rocks up), but it also brings a load of other things to the table like giving the team a WoW absorber and dealing with a few troublesome Pokemon such as Talonflame and XZard. It also acts as an emergency check to pretty much everything that uses EQ for coverage, and WoW helps a lot since it disables said EQ users while they take a turn to pop that baloon, and also lets it disable stuff like Bisharp and MMaw and to a lesser extent Azumarill.
Then there's the Scarf set which I haven't used much but I've seen it in action and it's great, catching a lot of stuff off-guard and being able to wisp a few sweepers which have set up to +1.
It's kinda hard to compare Heatran with anything in A+, since nothing else really does "defensive Pokemon that can also provide offensive support or even revenge kill", but I really feel like Heatran's versatility, the amount of support it provides to defensive and offensive teams alike and the fact that nothing is capable of filling the roles it does in the current metagame make it well worthy of A+ IMO.
I think someone actually suggested this change a while back and I was opposed to it, simply because I felt that its defensive capabilities were on par with the likes of Hippowdon and Ferrothorn, and that even though its defensive typing is really good (especially pared up with Flash Fire) and it's pretty much the best rock setter in the game, it suffers from 4MSS and lack of recovery makes it easy to wear down.
Now, I stand by Heatran being on par with other A ranks for its defensive capabilities, but I've been using offensive Heatran sets a lot and they are, if anything, even better than the defensive sets.
Firstly, the Offensive Air Balloon set which is really good on offensive teams since not only is it a stellar rock setter (the balloon forces a ton of great opportunities to get rocks up), but it also brings a load of other things to the table like giving the team a WoW absorber and dealing with a few troublesome Pokemon such as Talonflame and XZard. It also acts as an emergency check to pretty much everything that uses EQ for coverage, and WoW helps a lot since it disables said EQ users while they take a turn to pop that baloon, and also lets it disable stuff like Bisharp and MMaw and to a lesser extent Azumarill.
Then there's the Scarf set which I haven't used much but I've seen it in action and it's great, catching a lot of stuff off-guard and being able to wisp a few sweepers which have set up to +1.
It's kinda hard to compare Heatran with anything in A+, since nothing else really does "defensive Pokemon that can also provide offensive support or even revenge kill", but I really feel like Heatran's versatility, the amount of support it provides to defensive and offensive teams alike and the fact that nothing is capable of filling the roles it does in the current metagame make it well worthy of A+ IMO.
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Some changes I think would make sense:
- Regular Tyranitar for A-
Tyranitar is kinda bad. The Scarf set is pretty decent but you can't use it as a dedicated revenge killer on your team without needing something else because it's slow as all hell. The other sets kinda suck. I get that Smooth Rock is cool for Excadrill teams bc they're very good and I use it myself, but every time I use it it's the most expandable member of my team. I think that the Scarf set + Sand Stream + possible Mega bluff is worth A-, but not much more. Mega Tyranitar is an animal though and A+ is perfectly fine for it.
- Zard Y for A+
I'm not exactly sure why Zard Y isn't A+. To me it's still one of the most threatening Pokemon in the metagame and while it needs support to be truly effective, it's the kind of support you find on just about every team anyway (Defog and Pursuit.) I agree that Zard X is probably the better Charizard but having Y two ranks below sounds kinda extreme, especially considering it's very hard to guess the Zard on most teams. I don't know a lot of people who like to play Guess The Zard either
- MHeracross for A-
MHeracross is currently starting to get a lot of popularity because it is very hard to switch into it. It has excellent physical movepool and you have to think twice before thinking what counter you're going to switch into it. If you guess wrong, you have to take a possible Super Effective attack coming from a 185 base Atk mon so you can't exactly fuck around it... it also does extremely well against very popular team archetypes, such as Stall on Sand Offenses thanks to its great typing. It doesn't really need a lot of support to do well so I think it deserves a promotion.
- Politoed for A-
Politoed is the definition of average but Drizzle is great and Rain teams are very good in a metagame where Offense is dominant. I think that Politoed's placement in the viability rankings should reflect that, because no one is going to use Rain without it.
- Alomomola for B+
I think that Alomomola is a very effective Pokemon because it can always stay healthy while also healing its teammates. It checks an incredible amount of threats which makes it incredible on Balance and especially Stall teams. While it doesn't have much offensive presence the threat of a Scald burn is enough to discourage most physical threats to set up on it.
- Keldeo for S
XY OU is pretty much defined by offensive Waters and I feel like Keldeo is the poster boy of the Water army. It's ridiculously powerful and pretty much every type of team has a hard time handling it. Stall teams usually have to predict correctly not to get their switch in smashed by the appropriate move which means that with a little support it's going to do a ton of damage. Balance and Offense teams also have a hard time switching into it because of the sheer power of Specs boosted Hydro Pump and Secret Sword. Its best switch ins, Lati@s and MVenusaur, can both be hit by the appropriate coverage, either Icy Wind or Hidden Power Flying. Even things like Azumarill hesitate before switching in in fear of the possible Scald burn. Keep in mind that Keldeo is a horse that requires very little support to do its job and it will be effective in just about every game. While Keldeo is kind of a one-trick pony, it can do all that I just mentioned with just one set. Its Speed is actually pretty good by XY standards so it's not a problem for it. Add to that the multiple resistances to key types, including Water, Rock, and the crucial Dark and you've got one hell of a horse. It also fits on all kinds of teams except the hardest of Stalls which makes it such a common sighting in the current meta.
That's all I have right now because I haven't really looked at every mon's placement but I'll probably add more later
- Regular Tyranitar for A-
Tyranitar is kinda bad. The Scarf set is pretty decent but you can't use it as a dedicated revenge killer on your team without needing something else because it's slow as all hell. The other sets kinda suck. I get that Smooth Rock is cool for Excadrill teams bc they're very good and I use it myself, but every time I use it it's the most expandable member of my team. I think that the Scarf set + Sand Stream + possible Mega bluff is worth A-, but not much more. Mega Tyranitar is an animal though and A+ is perfectly fine for it.
- Zard Y for A+
I'm not exactly sure why Zard Y isn't A+. To me it's still one of the most threatening Pokemon in the metagame and while it needs support to be truly effective, it's the kind of support you find on just about every team anyway (Defog and Pursuit.) I agree that Zard X is probably the better Charizard but having Y two ranks below sounds kinda extreme, especially considering it's very hard to guess the Zard on most teams. I don't know a lot of people who like to play Guess The Zard either
- MHeracross for A-
MHeracross is currently starting to get a lot of popularity because it is very hard to switch into it. It has excellent physical movepool and you have to think twice before thinking what counter you're going to switch into it. If you guess wrong, you have to take a possible Super Effective attack coming from a 185 base Atk mon so you can't exactly fuck around it... it also does extremely well against very popular team archetypes, such as Stall on Sand Offenses thanks to its great typing. It doesn't really need a lot of support to do well so I think it deserves a promotion.
- Politoed for A-
Politoed is the definition of average but Drizzle is great and Rain teams are very good in a metagame where Offense is dominant. I think that Politoed's placement in the viability rankings should reflect that, because no one is going to use Rain without it.
- Alomomola for B+
I think that Alomomola is a very effective Pokemon because it can always stay healthy while also healing its teammates. It checks an incredible amount of threats which makes it incredible on Balance and especially Stall teams. While it doesn't have much offensive presence the threat of a Scald burn is enough to discourage most physical threats to set up on it.
- Keldeo for S
XY OU is pretty much defined by offensive Waters and I feel like Keldeo is the poster boy of the Water army. It's ridiculously powerful and pretty much every type of team has a hard time handling it. Stall teams usually have to predict correctly not to get their switch in smashed by the appropriate move which means that with a little support it's going to do a ton of damage. Balance and Offense teams also have a hard time switching into it because of the sheer power of Specs boosted Hydro Pump and Secret Sword. Its best switch ins, Lati@s and MVenusaur, can both be hit by the appropriate coverage, either Icy Wind or Hidden Power Flying. Even things like Azumarill hesitate before switching in in fear of the possible Scald burn. Keep in mind that Keldeo is a horse that requires very little support to do its job and it will be effective in just about every game. While Keldeo is kind of a one-trick pony, it can do all that I just mentioned with just one set. Its Speed is actually pretty good by XY standards so it's not a problem for it. Add to that the multiple resistances to key types, including Water, Rock, and the crucial Dark and you've got one hell of a horse. It also fits on all kinds of teams except the hardest of Stalls which makes it such a common sighting in the current meta.
That's all I have right now because I haven't really looked at every mon's placement but I'll probably add more later
Edit: Noticed that Ttar was A+ not A, apologies. Yeah A is fine, A- is too low though.
If we're seriously considering dropping Ttar to A- some of those in the category of A need to go down as well. The reason why I'm saying this is that Ttar is generally a solid mon and if we're talking about comparison reasons I find it much more useful than some of the A- mons. I mean idc so much about the verdict of this if it maintains A or drops to A- cause if it's viable on your team it's viable, ranks here won't change that. I just wanted to bring that up in terms of Jirachee's post. Everything else I agree with except for Keldeo but I do want to see how the meta changes now with Aegislash gone cause for all we know Keldeo might be more useful than ever, and it was already useful to begin with.
If we're seriously considering dropping Ttar to A- some of those in the category of A need to go down as well. The reason why I'm saying this is that Ttar is generally a solid mon and if we're talking about comparison reasons I find it much more useful than some of the A- mons. I mean idc so much about the verdict of this if it maintains A or drops to A- cause if it's viable on your team it's viable, ranks here won't change that. I just wanted to bring that up in terms of Jirachee's post. Everything else I agree with except for Keldeo but I do want to see how the meta changes now with Aegislash gone cause for all we know Keldeo might be more useful than ever, and it was already useful to begin with.
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In regards to Azumarill to S, I don't think that's unreasonable. I likened it to Aegislash somewhere on the forum recently, since it's one of those mons with bulk, a good typing and a buttload of power that you just slap on a team and watch it perform. It checks a lot of stuff, counters some important mons, can sweep and isn't hardwalled by much either. I haven't used the AV set, but apparently it's awesome. I think it performs more on par with S-rank mons than A+. It's just that easy and consistent. Actually that describes Azumarill really well, it's just an all-around easy mon to use.
Ok now with Slash gone, I think Starmie needs like an extremely high raise cuz it's now pretty much the best spinblocker in OU. Excadrill I believe is still the best overall mon, due to its sand rush set and mold breaker still an amazing ability in tandem with Earthquake. However, it needs to predict on the switch to kill stuff like Gengar and Chandelure, which can be a huge pain. For Starmie, due to its high speed and power, it can click rapid spin and pretty much all relevant ghosts can't switch in and can do nothing about it. Gengar gets psyshocked, Chandelure and lol Doublade get hydro pumped to oblivion, the smaller gourgeist formes die to ice beam and can't outspeed, really only the ones that can win given good prediction are the bulkier gourgeist formes and Trevenant which still fear ice beam 2HKOES. Excadrill has no hope getting bast the grass ghosts who can will-o-wisp and eat up anything and just pain split or rest or sitrus harvest up like no one's business. Thus I propose to raise Starmie to B+
Wouldn't be worried about gourgeist and trevenant too much honestly. As far as Starmie goes that's a huge leap from where it's at. If someone has high level replays or any recent XYOU tour plays of it doing work against most common archetypes that would be nice. It seems great on paper but every time I've seen Starmie it's just a let down and Aegislash had nothing to do with it except for making it less viable as a spinner.
Cant even give the ban a day, can we? Excadrill is still the better Spinner. Hes not Pursuit weak and he has a better overall typing both offensively and defensively
Damn right he is
Gengar cant switch into him, as 2 Iron Heads or 1 Mold Breaker EQ kill him. Chandy isnt even common ?_?
You say relevant ghosts, but you bring up Trevanant, Gourgeist, and Doublade up? No one uses those outside of teams dedicated to supporting them, which are still really bad. I can agree with Gengar, but thats it.
He doesnt have to worry about them because theyre practically nonexistant in OU. Especially in upper level play.
Im not against Starmie moving up, but jesus christ wait more than 18 hours to start nominating every Pokemon ever created to move up. The meta hasnt even shifted enough yet. For all you know, all these things that were walled by Aegislash cant do anything because theyre walled by other things. Give the meta some time to adapt.
My first post here, so please forgive me if I say something that is already said. I don't have too much time right now, so I'll keep it short:
Tentacruel from unranked to C+:
I tested it for a while, and being totally nerfed in this gen it is still a pretty viable Pokemon. 100% accuracy on Toxic, Rapid Spin and its decent special bulk lets him wall many special sweepers without Psyshock. It does decent against Mega-Venusaur thanks to its ability, and its typing allows it to hardcounter Keldeo. As a spinner it is still outclassed by Excadrill, but its typing and ability to handle some top threats gives him a nice niche. Right now I can see him in C+.
Azumarill from A+ to S:
I agree with all that was said. A very good Pokemon which does one job, and that very well. Nothing to add.
Doublade from unranked to C:
The younger twin brother from Aegislash is not as good as himself, but he does still a good job. While not having a spammable Shadowball, it can still check and counter many Pokemon that were countered from Aegislash before. I tested it for a while and it is very viable, but needs way more team support than Aegislash. That said, it outclasses Aegislash's SD-set because it doesn't loose its bulk. It can take more physical hits, sadly his special side isn't that great. It is still way too early to say something clearly for this guy, but right now everybody is using MegaMedicham and Heracross without Earthquake and he did a great job. For now I would like to see him in C, after more tests it should be clear how viable he really is.
That's it for now, I will expand some points later.
Tentacruel from unranked to C+:
I tested it for a while, and being totally nerfed in this gen it is still a pretty viable Pokemon. 100% accuracy on Toxic, Rapid Spin and its decent special bulk lets him wall many special sweepers without Psyshock. It does decent against Mega-Venusaur thanks to its ability, and its typing allows it to hardcounter Keldeo. As a spinner it is still outclassed by Excadrill, but its typing and ability to handle some top threats gives him a nice niche. Right now I can see him in C+.
Azumarill from A+ to S:
I agree with all that was said. A very good Pokemon which does one job, and that very well. Nothing to add.
Doublade from unranked to C:
The younger twin brother from Aegislash is not as good as himself, but he does still a good job. While not having a spammable Shadowball, it can still check and counter many Pokemon that were countered from Aegislash before. I tested it for a while and it is very viable, but needs way more team support than Aegislash. That said, it outclasses Aegislash's SD-set because it doesn't loose its bulk. It can take more physical hits, sadly his special side isn't that great. It is still way too early to say something clearly for this guy, but right now everybody is using MegaMedicham and Heracross without Earthquake and he did a great job. For now I would like to see him in C, after more tests it should be clear how viable he really is.
That's it for now, I will expand some points later.
Unranked to C+ is waaaay too much. Toxic doesn't have 100% acc btw. Rapin spin is cool but you're overplaying the special bulk aspect when things like Thundurus and Landorus run rampant in the tier. This doesn't change the fact that it loses to a lot of match ups including but not limited to, CharX, Excadrill, Garchomp, Breloom, Dragonite, the Latis, M-Ampharos, M-Alakazam, Crawdaunt and the list goes on. The only way it beats most of these is fishing for Scald burns and I wouldn't call that reliable. I threw in those last ones in there to give the idea that it loses to plenty in the lower ranks. Yes it's outclassed as a spinner by Excadrill, but it's also outclassed in so many other aspects and its niche doesn't even handle most of the tier.
Still agreeing with this
I won't understand the allure of using Doublade in OU besides checking things like Staraptor,M-Cham, and M-Hera but anyways moving on from that. The fact that it needs so much support to function doesn't warrant this move either. Also you have to realize that if this actually becomes relevant M-Hera and M-Cham will just go back to using Earthquake and Fire Punch respectively. Also I doubt it's going to even be as viable as people are making it sound. Like you pointed out, it has some pretty apparent flaws that are too apparent in OU. I know you're testing it to give you a better idea on viability but C rank? Idk about all that.
Edit: Putting this here for my own sake
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toxic got changed this gen so that it has perfect accuracy when used by a poison type. c+ is still too high for tentacruel though.
Thanks for the clarification.
Tentacruel from unranked to C+:
I tested it for a while, and being totally nerfed in this gen it is still a pretty viable Pokemon. 100% accuracy on Toxic, Rapid Spin and its decent special bulk lets him wall many special sweepers without Psyshock. It does decent against Mega-Venusaur thanks to its ability, and its typing allows it to hardcounter Keldeo. As a spinner it is still outclassed by Excadrill, but its typing and ability to handle some top threats gives him a nice niche. Right now I can see him in C+.[/quote]
Tentacruel is way outclassed by latias , latias can remove hazards a lot easier whilst countering keldeo, having strong offensive presence and reliable recovery although bisharp does give it a few issues.
Sorry about the formatting I'm on my phone
I tested it for a while, and being totally nerfed in this gen it is still a pretty viable Pokemon. 100% accuracy on Toxic, Rapid Spin and its decent special bulk lets him wall many special sweepers without Psyshock. It does decent against Mega-Venusaur thanks to its ability, and its typing allows it to hardcounter Keldeo. As a spinner it is still outclassed by Excadrill, but its typing and ability to handle some top threats gives him a nice niche. Right now I can see him in C+.[/quote]
Tentacruel is way outclassed by latias , latias can remove hazards a lot easier whilst countering keldeo, having strong offensive presence and reliable recovery although bisharp does give it a few issues.
Sorry about the formatting I'm on my phone
Yeah true haha sorry I will try using Starmie a little during laddering and see how it functions. I did mention "lol Doublade" cuz I know it isn't common. Chandelure sees use as a very good Zard-Y check and burn stuff like Bisharp and Mawile and Tyrannitar who think they can sucker punch or pursuit trap and still maintain a great offensive presence due to its special attack. Gourgeist is actually pretty good as a Megados counter that isn't screwed by gothitelle and a spinblocker that beats Excadrill lol and as an annoyer with leech seed and pain split.
But sorry will post again after testing with Starmie
Tentacruel:
If it would be good against many threads in the tier I would have recommended it in B. It has flaws and there are some special attackers that can stop him quite easy. Like you said, Thunderus, Lati@ss and Landorus are the most popular ones. I think his worst flaw is his Psychic-weakness.
The rest of these Pokemon are physical sweepers anyway and it would be stupid to assume he can do anything against them. Like I said, he will propably never go to B rank because of this but he is worth a mention.
Being able to full counter Keldeo, one of the best specs-user in the tier and giving Mega-Venusaur a hard time because of Liquid Ooze is a great ability.
If C+ is too high for him as a newcomer, he can be fine in C-. D seems a bit too hard for him.
Doublade:
Doublade does the exact same things like SD-Aegislash, without loosing his bulk while attacking. He can't spam Shadow Balls and a SubToxic-set is probable not really great without Leftovers (could try of course, but I doubt it right now), but he can Swords Dance and has a Shadow Sneak as strong as Aegislash's. He can still Pursuit-trap Lati@s, he can survive Excadrills Earthquake even better than Aegislash. He is nowhere near S rank, but he can be a really great team support, a fantastic spin blocker and take advantage of his incredible defensive typing. His special side is rather useless, but that doesn't mean he is useless in general. He can do great work, and therefor he is more than worth a mention.
Still I recommend him for C for the start.
I've tried Starmie out and it's actually pretty damn good. I honestly find it better at spinning than Excadrill, for one main reason : it's way faster.
Let's face it, Excadrill is kinda slow for an offensive mon with no priority. I really don't find it to be an effective spinner without Scarf (which can kill momentum) or Sand Rush (which requires support and limits the situations when you actually can spin). Otherwise, you just get outsped by basically everything on offense.
Now Starmie on the other hand outspeeds the vast majority of the unboosted unscarfed metagame besides Greninja and rarer stuff like MManectric and Torn-T. This gives it a hell of an easier time spinning vs offense. There are also a few other reasons to use it over Excadrill, namely, it doesn't add an Azu or Keldeo weakness (actually counters Keldeo) and can spin on rock setters Exca can't such as Landorus-T and Skarmory. Oh and then there's the bulky Reflect Type set which spins on Ferrothorn of all things.
Starmie is defenitely a solid spinner on offense. B seems fine for it, B+ may be pushing it but that's where Zapdos is and Starmie is arguably a better hazard remover than it.
Let's face it, Excadrill is kinda slow for an offensive mon with no priority. I really don't find it to be an effective spinner without Scarf (which can kill momentum) or Sand Rush (which requires support and limits the situations when you actually can spin). Otherwise, you just get outsped by basically everything on offense.
Now Starmie on the other hand outspeeds the vast majority of the unboosted unscarfed metagame besides Greninja and rarer stuff like MManectric and Torn-T. This gives it a hell of an easier time spinning vs offense. There are also a few other reasons to use it over Excadrill, namely, it doesn't add an Azu or Keldeo weakness (actually counters Keldeo) and can spin on rock setters Exca can't such as Landorus-T and Skarmory. Oh and then there's the bulky Reflect Type set which spins on Ferrothorn of all things.
Starmie is defenitely a solid spinner on offense. B seems fine for it, B+ may be pushing it but that's where Zapdos is and Starmie is arguably a better hazard remover than it.
I realize this is a bit early, but I've been typing at this for a long time and don't want to lose it all, so here goes. Expect this to get updated later this week.
EDIT: Mega Gardevoir added.
Zapdos (B) -> B | Yeah, I think it's about time Zapdos falls to B Rank. Thunderburd had a niche in being able to check Aegislash and a few other Steels, but with Aegislash banned, a Pokémon that Zapdos could check quite well, it's lost another one of its uses. As Albacore pointed out, Starmie now performs vastly better with Aegi out of the tier and makes for a solid hazard remover. Despite its use as a Defogger, Zapdos suffers from having a SR weakness, which hampers it a lot in that regard. As an offensive Pokémon, Raikou and Thundurus-I do the job far better and Mega Manectric provides useful Intimidate support while having the same Fire-type coverage; it's also much stronger than defensive/Defog Zapdos and has nearly unoutspeedable Volt Switches. Zapdos has good Speed at best, at 100, making it vulnerable to being RK'd as an attacker. Unlike Thundurus-I or Raikou, it has no Special Attack-boosting options and unlike Mega Manectric, running Defog gives it 4MSS: without Heat Wave it loses to several Steel-types and without HP Ice Garchomp and Mega Charizard X shit all over it. Mega Charizard X can just set up on Zapdos all it wants, too.
All in all, I feel like Zapdos has really lost its luster in OU as of now. Move it down to B.
Raikou (B) -> B+ | I feel like Raikou has become better with the departure of Aegislash. It's a great CM attacker and has just the right coverage to plow through some major OU threats, notably Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame, Thunderbolt doing a shitton of damage to all of them (aside from AV Azumarill). Its nifty coverage move of Extrasensory makes it so that Mega Venusaur doesn't wall it to Hell and back, unlike what is the case with Mega Manectric and Zapdos. Lastly, in terms of moves, HP Ice hits pesky Dragon-types like Garchomp and Dragonite. As for other sets, Assault Vest can check a large myriad of special attackers and Raikou is one of the fastest Choice Specs users in the tier as well, giving it a definite offensive presence in OU.
Now, what holds it back? For one, a susceptibility to being RK'd. Scarf Garchomp just EQs it into oblivion, while Azumarill's Aqua Jet can seriously dent it to name a priority move. It's also set-up bait for some of the most dangerous attackers in the tier, namely Mega Tyranitar and Mega Charizard X, the former of which can use its astronomical bulk to even stomach +1 Thunderbolts and proceed to OHKO with Earthquake, the latter of which can set up a DD on any of its moves and either DClaw or Flare Blitz the shit out of it. It also lacks the precious Fire-type coverage that Mega Manectric has, as a last note. Nevertheless, Raikou is more solid than ever and deserves to rise to B+.
Mega Heracross (B+) -> A-/A | Where to begin with this monster bug? I'm not kidding when naming this thing monster bug: Mega Heracross is an absolute demolisher. Let's start with its otherworldly base 185 Attack, giving its strong STABs some real force. Its STABs are none other than good ol' Close Combat and, more notably, Skill Link Pin Missile, which not only outdamages Megahorn, but is also more accurate AND shits all over Substitutes. The only coverage move this Hercules beetle needs is Rock Blast, amplified by Skill Link as well, to have a move that's 1.25x stronger than Stone Edge, 10% more accurate and with twice as much PP. You think that was all there is to it? Fuck no, this thing is so monstrous that it gets Swords Dance to make its Attack so high that almost everything in the tier is OHKOed by any of its moves. With its 80/115/105 defenses, as well as key resistances to Grass, Fighting, Ground and especially Dark, Mega Heracross has ample of switch-in opportunities and with that galactic Attack stat, it forces many switches, giving it many chances to set up a Swords Dance and leave behind a trail of wreckage. Considering its stats and moves, Mega Heracross is one of the ultimate nightmares to and completely annihilates Stall teams.
These amazing traits aside, Mega Heracross has several flaws. Firstly, its weakness to Fairy-, Fire- and Flying-type moves limits its switch-in chances and leaves it weak to several top-tier threats if it can't outspeed these. Secondly, its base Speed of 75 does hold it back from being a total demolisher, since that leaves it quite prone to Offense teams. Fortunately, this can be fixed by using Sticky Web. All in all, Mega Heracross is an absolutely marvelous wallbreaker that's capable of easily destroying whole teams given the chance and should always be prepared for. Mega Heracross for A-/A.
Mega Gardevoir (A-) -> A/A+ | You thought Mega Heracross was a nightmare to Stall? If that's what you thought, then Mega Gardevoir would be the poltergeist haunting it! Seriously, this Pokémon has become even more amazing than it already was. 165 Special Attack is absolutely fantastic and Mega Gardevoir has just the right movepool to maliciously abuse the living fuck out of it. Its signature Pixilate Hyper Voice has 175 power counting STAB and Pixilate, but its Fairy-type and ability to bypass Substitutes is just mind-blowing. This move alone makes Mega Gardevoir ridiculously hard to switch in on, but this dancer has access to STAB Psyshock to hit physically weak Pokémon and provide additional coverage. The third main move on Mega Gardevoir is Focus Blast, which, while inaccurate, allows it to slay most of the Steel-types that tend to annoy it, including Heatran, Skarmory and Mega Mawile. Since Aegislash has left, these three moves provide perfect coverage in OU and leave room for another useful move to add: Calm Mind allows Gardevoir to raise its Special Attack to insane levels, while giving it notable Special Defense to take hits on the special spectrum; Taunt gives Mega Gardevoir the ability to completely lay waste to Stall teams; and Will-O-Wisp lets it cripple physical attackers for a teammate to set up on or catch said attackers by surprise on the switch to live a physical hit. Additionally, stat-wise, Mega Gardevoir has a wonderful Special Defense stat of 135, giving it notable special bulk that can be augmented by Calm Mind, as mentioned before. 100 Speed is a good Speed tier in OU and since several other base 100s often don't go max Speed, Mega Gardevoir can easily run a Modest nature to make its power simply absurd.
With all these fantastic advantages, Mega Gardevoir does have some notable flaws. Firstly, its measly base 65 Defense gives it no physical bulk if not using Will-O-Wisp and leaves it prone to being revenge killed; Talonflame is the worst offender, as it's immune to burn courtesy of its own Fire-type. Additionally, 100 Speed is good, but not fantastic and leaves Mega Gardevoir outsped by key OU threats, such as the Eons, Thundurus-I and Landorus-I. This issue can be fixed by using Sticky Web, however, and Mega Gardevoir is easily one of its best abusers in the OU tier. To summarize, Mega Gardevoir is a massive threat due to its general unpredictability, jaw-breaking special power and being extremely difficult to directly switch in on. Mega Gardevoir for A/A+.
EDIT: Mega Gardevoir added.
All in all, I feel like Zapdos has really lost its luster in OU as of now. Move it down to B.
Now, what holds it back? For one, a susceptibility to being RK'd. Scarf Garchomp just EQs it into oblivion, while Azumarill's Aqua Jet can seriously dent it to name a priority move. It's also set-up bait for some of the most dangerous attackers in the tier, namely Mega Tyranitar and Mega Charizard X, the former of which can use its astronomical bulk to even stomach +1 Thunderbolts and proceed to OHKO with Earthquake, the latter of which can set up a DD on any of its moves and either DClaw or Flare Blitz the shit out of it. It also lacks the precious Fire-type coverage that Mega Manectric has, as a last note. Nevertheless, Raikou is more solid than ever and deserves to rise to B+.
These amazing traits aside, Mega Heracross has several flaws. Firstly, its weakness to Fairy-, Fire- and Flying-type moves limits its switch-in chances and leaves it weak to several top-tier threats if it can't outspeed these. Secondly, its base Speed of 75 does hold it back from being a total demolisher, since that leaves it quite prone to Offense teams. Fortunately, this can be fixed by using Sticky Web. All in all, Mega Heracross is an absolutely marvelous wallbreaker that's capable of easily destroying whole teams given the chance and should always be prepared for. Mega Heracross for A-/A.
With all these fantastic advantages, Mega Gardevoir does have some notable flaws. Firstly, its measly base 65 Defense gives it no physical bulk if not using Will-O-Wisp and leaves it prone to being revenge killed; Talonflame is the worst offender, as it's immune to burn courtesy of its own Fire-type. Additionally, 100 Speed is good, but not fantastic and leaves Mega Gardevoir outsped by key OU threats, such as the Eons, Thundurus-I and Landorus-I. This issue can be fixed by using Sticky Web, however, and Mega Gardevoir is easily one of its best abusers in the OU tier. To summarize, Mega Gardevoir is a massive threat due to its general unpredictability, jaw-breaking special power and being extremely difficult to directly switch in on. Mega Gardevoir for A/A+.
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