Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I disagree with Manaphy being moved down. It's best set (imo) Rain dance + Tail glow with surf and psychic 6-0's non ferro stall easily. It fares well against balance too and while not great vs offense, it can still do something with the standard tail glow set and luring thundurus with a wacan berry is cool too. Keep Manaphy A-
 
Any specific reason that Salamence is ranked apart from the fact that it's only usable in OU? It doesnt have any niche. Wanna run scarf? Garchomp, Landorus-T, Terrakion, Keldeo, and Kyurem-B are better. Wanna run DD? Dragonite, Zard-X, Gyarados(this is remarkably similar, exact same abilities), Mega TTar, and Mega Gyara are all better. Wanna run a mixed set? Kyurem-B, Thundurus, and Hydreigon are better choices. I guess it has a niche as the only Dragon- type with access to Wish, but that niche is so obscure its not worth using. If its possible, can we boot Salamence off the list?
 
Alexander. said:
Salamence isn't that bad TBH, and now that Aegi and Mawile are in Ubers, the Choice Scarf set with Moxie is p interesting for some DragMagn teams, it isn't a big niche but I guess that if things like Mantine are D rank, Salamence should be too.
Click to expand...
I see where you're coming from, and Salamence is definitely better than Mantine. What sets them apart? Mantine has a defined niche, Salamence does not. Salamence is outclassed(either fully or partially)at everything it wants to do. Mantine is the only bulky water with defog, which is a definite niche and it also checks Zard-Y and Keldeo. I mean, if I can see more good arguments for Salamence to be ranked maybe I'll concede. But so far I think it should be booted.
 
Venusaur (Mega): A+ ---> A
Poor Mega Venusaurez. The current meta is so cruel to it. Sand offence is a complete jerk to this thing. It just completely limits it's ability to preform by cutting off its recovery and wearing it down, making it deadweight vs a very common playstyle. That's not the only thing causing it to move down, however. The ban of Mega Mawile has taken away it's usage as a non Iron Head Mega Mawile counter. Also, all these new stallbreakers murder it, so it's hard to find room for it as a Mega on it's best playstyles, because bulky offence and balanced have better options, and so does stall. very worthy of A rank though, being a nice glue and a counter to the omnipresent Azumaril, but it's poor matchup with a lot of the meta pushes it out of A+ rank.
 
but is there any competitive team that would be better off with salamence then some other poke? I'm there isn't, same with mantine and some of d rank. Imo some of them need to be unranked
 
With Salamence its the same issue as with Blissey and other things. The relevant question is, does a mon thats partially outclassed in its roles deserve a rank? Imo the answer is yes. If the pokemon can be used effectively in the meta and has something relevant to set it apart from its competition then its worth ranking. In Salamence case what sets it apart is moxie scarf. He is fast enough to revenge most of the meta and can be difficult to stop after a moxie boost or two. However considering how small the niche is i think it shouldnt be higher than C.
 
Last edited:
There are way better rapid spinners than Forretress not to mention Defog hurts it's viability because Rapid Spin is no longer the only way to get rid of entry hazards.
 
Smog Frog said:
I see where you're coming from, and Salamence is definitely better than Mantine. What sets them apart? Mantine has a defined niche, Salamence does not. Salamence is outclassed(either fully or partially)at everything it wants to do. Mantine is the only bulky water with defog, which is a definite niche and it also checks Zard-Y and Keldeo. I mean, if I can see more good arguments for Salamence to be ranked maybe I'll concede. But so far I think it should be booted.
Click to expand...
It have moxie, which is a clear niche over chomp as a scarfer, as a mixed attacker, its 100 base speed allows it to speed tie with stuff like mega voir, medi and zard also intimidate nice. other than that, it have acces to hydro pump a clear niche over hydreigon. i think it deserves to be ranked in D.
 
DarkGengar said:
Ranking Forretress in B- rank from unranked was a obviously a huge jump but I wholeheartedly feel it's deserving of that rank. It can finally do the job it has done efficiently since gen 2...rapid spin. It's very underrated imo





I wasn't addressing volt switch was good for it's damage output (it's weak as fuck obviously), I was simply stating how good it was for gaining offensive momentum. The damage it does to incoming mons is completely irrelevant.
Ground types like Garchomp and Lando (i'm assuming you were referring to its Incarnate form) are the only ground types that Forretress fear. It's not a huge deal when you factor in pokemon is played with 6 pokes and can be easily supported by its team (which is why I placed it in B-)
And there really aren't too many hazard removers that are seen commonly in OU actually. It's really just the latis, and Excadrill. Forretress differentiates itself from them by adding more utility (spinning, hazards, momentum), aswell as being alot bulkier.
Click to expand...

Imo its not as much gaining offensive momentum but partially compensatig for the loss of momentum that you suffer from using Forretress in the first place. Pretty much every special attacker can come in for free and force it out, most physical attackers can beat it over time since its lacking recovery. Bringing Forretress in basicly means granting the opponent a free switch to whatever he wants, volt switch barely compensates that. And while other groundtypes like Lando-T or even Hippo might take a while to beat Forretress they will sooner or later. The only thing Forretress can do when up against Groundtypes is hard switch out, killing your momentum even more. If you want defensive hazard removal go for Mew, Skarm, Zapdos, Mandybuzz etc.
 
Last edited:
I'm interested to know why people are suggesting Zard X to be moved down? It's a stupidly good Pokemon.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Zard X is the shining example of what an S rank mon is supposed to be. It's bar none the best Dragon Dancer in the game. It can't be burned, which means there's no need for Lum Berry (it couldn't use it anyway, but that's beside the point), and when that DD is set up, there is hardly anything in the OU meta that will take +1 Zard X's attacks fairly well upon switch in:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 175-207 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 222-262 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 241-285 (68 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 252-297 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 202-238 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 273-322 (64.5 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Note that I'm using JOLLY in these calcs.

These pokes here are all supposed to be good checks to Zard X, and they can be if they can come in before Zard gets a DD up, but from that point on, the only way to truly stop Zard X is to get a free switch in by sacking one of your Pokemon and revenge-killing it with priority or a scarf'd mon (Arceus-forbid if you allow Zard X to be at +2, then Scarf'd mons can't even help you...)

And that's not all. Zard X can also run a very successful bulky WoW set to troll the Pokemon that are supposedly there to kill this thing entirely. Azumarill? Burned. Tyranitar? Burned. Lando-T? Burned. I can keep going. It also helps that Zard X not only has reliable recovery in Roost to make this and even the DD set work, but it's one of the (if not, the only) Dragons in OU that takes neutral damage from Ice AND Fairy, which are for the most part, the mortal enemies to the Dragon typing.

Keep Mega Charizard X at S.
 
Vengeance417 said:
I'm interested to know why people are suggesting Zard X to be moved down? It's a stupidly good Pokemon.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Zard X is the shining example of what an S rank mon is supposed to be. It's bar none the best Dragon Dancer in the game. It can't be burned, which means there's no need for Lum Berry (it couldn't use it anyway, but that's beside the point), and when that DD is set up, there is hardly anything in the OU meta that will take +1 Zard X's attacks fairly well upon switch in:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 175-207 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 222-262 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 241-285 (68 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 252-297 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 202-238 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 273-322 (64.5 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

These pokes here are all supposed to be good checks to Zard X, and they can be if they can come in before Zard gets a DD up, but from that point on, the only way to truly stop Zard X is to get a free switch in by sacking one of your Pokemon and revenge-killing it with priority or a scarf'd mon (Arceus-forbid if you allow Zard X to be at +2, then Scarf'd mons can't even help you...)

And that's not all. Zard X can also run a very successful bulky WoW set to troll the Pokemon that are supposedly there to kill this thing entirely. Azumarill? Burned. Tyranitar? Burned. Lando-T? Burned. I can keep going. It also helps that Zard X not only has reliable recovery in Roost to make this and even the DD set work, but it's one of the (if not, the only) Dragons in OU that takes neutral damage from Ice AND Fairy, which are for the most part, the mortal enemies to the Dragon typing.

Keep Mega Charizard X at S.
Click to expand...
Fire type is nice, but you still get paralyzed unlike Lum berry users. Also, all the Pokemon you mentioned shouldn't be switching into 1+ attacks, they should be switching in as Charizard DD's. In which case all of the Pokemon that you mentioned beat Char X. IF Char X somehow beats its check, you can send in a scarfer. If you let Char X get to 2+ you have a bad team because you either can't handle Mega Dragon Dancers or you sacked your Char X check while Char X is alive... which is stupid. Char X is one of the worse mons of S rank imo. The worst is Keldeo, but if I had to drop 2 pokes from S rank it'd be Keldeo and Char X. I'm ok with keeping Char X at S, but it really isn't that amazing, any competent team should be able to stop it and I wouldn't mind a future drop in rank either.
 
theV8man said:
Fire type is nice, but you still get paralyzed unlike Lum berry users. Also, all the Pokemon you mentioned shouldn't be switching into 1+ attacks, they should be switching in as Charizard DD's. In which case all of the Pokemon that you mentioned beat Char X. IF Char X somehow beats its check, you can send in a scarfer. If you let Char X get to 2+ you have a bad team because you either can't handle Mega Dragon Dancers or you sacked your Char X check while Char X is alive... which is stupid. Char X is one of the worse mons of S rank imo. The worst is Keldeo, but if I had to drop 2 pokes from S rank it'd be Keldeo and Char X. I'm ok with keeping Char X at S, but it really isn't that amazing, any competent team should be able to stop it and I wouldn't mind a future drop in rank either.
Click to expand...

That may be true, and I'll give you that, but none of those Pokemon like taking a Burn either, so if I happened to be running a WoW set, you just crippled your physical attackers for my amusement. That's the amazing thing about Zard X, and Charizard in general: you don't know what set it could run until it actually happens.
 
theV8man said:
Fire type is nice, but you still get paralyzed unlike Lum berry users. Also, all the Pokemon you mentioned shouldn't be switching into 1+ attacks, they should be switching in as Charizard DD's. In which case all of the Pokemon that you mentioned beat Char X. IF Char X somehow beats its check, you can send in a scarfer. If you let Char X get to 2+ you have a bad team because you either can't handle Mega Dragon Dancers or you sacked your Char X check while Char X is alive... which is stupid. Char X is one of the worse mons of S rank imo. The worst is Keldeo, but if I had to drop 2 pokes from S rank it'd be Keldeo and Char X. I'm ok with keeping Char X at S, but it really isn't that amazing, any competent team should be able to stop it and I wouldn't mind a future drop in rank either.
Click to expand...
While most of this is true, who would dd with zard when there's a check on the other side? Most people would just nuke it, making stuff like lando die to a neutral flare blitz later on in the match. As for the scarfers, zard can take a hit from a good amount of them, such as chomps outrage before going mega. And all scarfers will fail to revenge the tailwind set, while sd can kill hippo and lando-t with relative ease.
 
Okay, I'll talk about Forretress after all. Forretress has some potential usefulness in OU now that both Aegislash and Mega Mawile have left the building, but I find Mega Scizor to be better. First, Mega Scizor has basically the same stats, just better in every stat except HP, though a 5 point difference isn't really that big of a deal. Second, Mega Scizor has actual recovery in Roost, something that Forretess would kill for, meaning Mega Scizor can take repeated attacks while Forretress only has a few chances to get the job done. Finally, Mega Scizor can actually provide an offensive presence with priority and high power; Forretress only has 90 Attack, and he can't use Gyro Ball without giving up a utility move. From what I can tell there are only two things that Forretress has over Mega Scizor. First, Forretress can set up Stealth Rock and (Toxic) Spikes, while Mega Scizor has no entry hazard moves of any kind. And second, Forretress doesn't cost the team a Mega Slot, meaning you can have Forretress and still use a Mega Evolution on your team. Though honestly, I'd rather just use Mega Scizor.

tl;dr Forretress has some use in OU, but it's tough to not compare him to Mega Scizor. Now that I look back at it, D rank seems more appropriate for Forretress, since even C- might be pushing it, but I'll let others debate on that one.
 
Valmanway said:
Okay, I'll talk about Forretress after all. Forretress has some potential usefulness in OU now that both Aegislash and Mega Mawile have left the building, but I find Mega Scizor to be better. First, Mega Scizor has basically the same stats, just better in every stat except HP, though a 5 point difference isn't really that big of a deal. Second, Mega Scizor has actual recovery in Roost, something that Forretess would kill for, meaning Mega Scizor can take repeated attacks while Forretress only has a few chances to get the job done. Finally, Mega Scizor can actually provide an offensive presence with priority and high power; Forretress only has 90 Attack, and he can't use Gyro Ball without giving up a utility move. From what I can tell there are only two things that Forretress has over Mega Scizor. First, Forretress can set up Stealth Rock and (Toxic) Spikes, while Mega Scizor has no entry hazard moves of any kind. And second, Forretress doesn't cost the team a Mega Slot, meaning you can have Forretress and still use a Mega Evolution on your team. Though honestly, I'd rather just use Mega Scizor.

tl;dr Forretress has some use in OU, but it's tough to not compare him to Mega Scizor. Now that I look back at it, D rank seems more appropriate for Forretress, since even C- might be pushing it, but I'll let others debate on that one.
Click to expand...

1. Mega Scizor takes up your mega slot
2. Rapid spinning removes only hazards on your side of the field
3. Forretress provides hazard support

That's more than enough to differentiate itself from Mega Scizor.
Forretress can also easily be supported by wish users if recovery is that much of an issue but on offensive teams it isn't necessary at all.

C- and D rank are far too low for Forretress imho. I'm still sticking with my B-
 
DarkGengar said:
1. Mega Scizor takes up your mega slot
Click to expand...

I personally don't see any reason why it must be a Mega scizor to preform any of these roles.. sure the mega evolution adds bulk and power but even if he didn't have a mega he still preforms these roles better than forretress while saving a mega slot.

Not removing your own hazards however is a very good niche for forretress as well but it's outclassed as a hazard setter and a spinner reguardless.. the only thing he can do is lay ALL hazards (bar web) and still spin but I doubt you're going to find 6 turns to just lay hazards. (Especially when you're complete taunt bait and defog is more spammable.)
 
DarkGengar said:
1. Mega Scizor takes up your mega slot. He mentioned this...
2. Rapid spinning removes only hazards on your side of the field
3. Forretress provides hazard support. He mentioned this too...

That's more than enough to differentiate itself from Mega Scizor.
Forretress can also easily be supported by wish users if recovery is that much of an issue but on offensive teams it isn't necessary at all.

C- and D rank are far too low for Forretress imho. I'm still sticking with my B-
Click to expand...

The problem with this statement is that due to the fact Forretress can't recover on its own, it NEEDS that wish support in order to stick around if you plan to keep it alive for long, which is why it's unranked, along with the fact that it has no good offensive capabilities whatsoever. Even Ferrothorn has a better offensive presence than Forretress, AND has a recovery option with Leech Seed. Skarmory himself can set up hazards, remove them AND heal itself with Roost to gain back Sturdy.

I don't see Forretress being ranked higher than the likes of Thundurus-T, Infernape, Hydreigon and Mega Blastoise. Forretress is outclassed and doesn't deserve to be B- . If anything, D is perfect for it (and I'm being super generous) since it has Sturdy, can set up hazards and rapid spin others, and can Volt Switch out.
 
Last edited:
Vengeance417 said:
I'm interested to know why people are suggesting Zard X to be moved down? It's a stupidly good Pokemon.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Zard X is the shining example of what an S rank mon is supposed to be. It's bar none the best Dragon Dancer in the game. It can't be burned, which means there's no need for Lum Berry (it couldn't use it anyway, but that's beside the point), and when that DD is set up, there is hardly anything in the OU meta that will take +1 Zard X's attacks fairly well upon switch in:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 175-207 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 222-262 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 241-285 (68 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 252-297 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 202-238 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 273-322 (64.5 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Note that I'm using JOLLY in these calcs.

These pokes here are all supposed to be good checks to Zard X, and they can be if they can come in before Zard gets a DD up, but from that point on, the only way to truly stop Zard X is to get a free switch in by sacking one of your Pokemon and revenge-killing it with priority or a scarf'd mon (Arceus-forbid if you allow Zard X to be at +2, then Scarf'd mons can't even help you...)

And that's not all. Zard X can also run a very successful bulky WoW set to troll the Pokemon that are supposedly there to kill this thing entirely. Azumarill? Burned. Tyranitar? Burned. Lando-T? Burned. I can keep going. It also helps that Zard X not only has reliable recovery in Roost to make this and even the DD set work, but it's one of the (if not, the only) Dragons in OU that takes neutral damage from Ice AND Fairy, which are for the most part, the mortal enemies to the Dragon typing.

Keep Mega Charizard X at S.
Click to expand...
Adding on to this, Zard X can run different moves to get past some of its checks without detracting from its overall effectiveness (like Outrage for Quagsire or Earthquake for Heatran) and can even Wallbreak with an SD set.

Honestly if Zard X isn't S rank then no other Mega deserves it.

EDIT:
Forretress shouldn't be ranked. It can't get past Gengar without using lol Payback and Gengar still cripples it with Will-O-Wisp or Shadow Ball (which it no longer resists).

0 Atk Forretress Payback (100 BP) vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 200-236 (74.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Forretress Payback (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 200-236 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk burned Forretress Payback (100 BP) vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 100-118 (37.3 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk burned Forretress Payback (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 100-118 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

148 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 120-142 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 129-153 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 168-199 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

148 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 184-217 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 198-234 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 257-304 (72.8 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:
DarkGengar said:
1. Mega Scizor takes up your mega slot
2. Rapid spinning removes only hazards on your side of the field
3. Forretress provides hazard support

That's more than enough to differentiate itself from Mega Scizor.
Forretress can also easily be supported by wish users if recovery is that much of an issue but on offensive teams it isn't necessary at all.

C- and D rank are far too low for Forretress imho. I'm still sticking with my B-
Click to expand...

You can't just say the same thing again and then bold B- at the end, it doesn't help your argument at all. Could you tell me WHY I would use this over Excadrill and Starmie.
 
Copy and pasting some stuff i posted in good cores:
Dugtrio is a very niche pokemon that only kill a few mons. The mons it kills tho are the exact mons lati@s and talonflame hate though. Dugtrio can trap and kill Heatran, Tyranitar, rhyperior, chansey, bisharp, Mega manetric, Raikou. Notice something about those pokemon? They are the exact pokemon talonflame and lati@s hate. . These days I've only used it 1700+, but i'm a lot less dedicated battler these days. The idea is send Dugtrio in on a free switch vs one of the above mons to kill it. Sweep with Talonflame or Lati@s. Lati@s is used as hazard removal is key with the sash and talonflame. It also lures heatran, ttar, bisharp, for dugtrio and loves them gone. It also gives a nice water resist. Lastly, Lati@s deals with the remaining Talonflame counters in Thunderus and Rotom-W.

Basically dugtrio is a great for removing heatran and ttar, 2 very common mons, can work as an ok revenge killer and is a great partner for lati@s and talonflame.

Imo its worthy of at least D if not c- still
 
I'm sorry DarkGengar but B- for Forretress is an absolute joke and nobody is going to take you seriously if you continue to stick to that. However, I could see Forretress in D.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.
Click to expand...

Forretress fits this definition almost perfectly, it is one of the few pokemon that can spin and supply hazards and as an added bonus it maintains momentum with Volt Switch. Having Sturdy is also cool and in the fourth moveslot it could even run Spikes, Toxic Spikes, or Gyro Ball. Due to this I think it deserves D and nothing more. I also feel the need to point out to some people that Rapid Spin and Defog arent the same thing, Defog removes hazards on both sides while Rapid Spin only removes hazards on your side. So while Defog is good and all Rapid Spin is still a little bit better.

I suppose it's outclassed by Donphan though
 
why is Forretress even being discussed for anything above D? it's complete ass in OU, even with Aegislash gone. i see almost no situation where anyone would ever opt for Forretress on their team over another anything else. every single B Pokemon plays a much better role than Forretress; heck, Starmie and Excadrill destroy this thing one on one and spin away whatever it's set up. Excadrill even gets a free switch into Volt Switch. if you need a slow pivot, M-Ampharos is much better, having higher special bulk and actual offensive presence. if you need something to set up Spikes, hell, even Ferrothorn, Chesnaught, and Greninja are better options, having much more overall utility or offensive presence. with all the common Ground-types in the tier such as Landorus-I/T, Gliscor, and Excadrill, Volt Switch actually kills your momentum more often than not, dealing piss-poor damage in the process if it even manages to hit a Water- or Flying-type (you know something's wrong when you can't even 2HKO Greninja with a super effective move). it does not deserve anywhere near a B rank. it has so many notable flaws: bad special bulk, zero offensive presence, only one real usable set, spikes + tspikes aren't that good any more. it requires tons of team support as well; it needs wish and cleric support, while Excadrill is immune to paralysis and poison, Starmie gets Natural Cure and Recover, Scizor gets Roost, and all these Pokemon can actually do something aside from spinning. as a hazard setter, why wouldn't you rather use Ferrothorn or Skarmory?

also supporting Lucario's drop to B-. it's just too, I guess mediocre at the moment, for lack of a better word. Aegislash's removal kinda let it back into OU for a bit more freedom, no longer needing to keep Earthquake on its moveslot to bypass King's Shield, but it still has a small case of 4MSS. it wants to run SD, Close Combat, ESpeed, Ice Punch, and Iron Tail; dropping Ice Punch leaves it walled by Lando-T and Gliscor, while dropping Iron Tail leaves it walled by Azumarill, M-Venusaur, and Clefable, and all of these Pokemon are very commonly used. it also really needs to set up an SD to properly sweep, but even then its average base 90 Speed lets it down, leaving it easily revenge killed by other common threats such as Garchomp and Terrakion. doesn't really help that it's also pretty frail to boot, getting OHKOed or crippled by most physical walls which can take even a boosted attack; it can't even kill Lando-T at +1 with a 4x super effective Ice Punch in most cases. similarly, special set isn't very good either. low BP moves and lack of ESpeed isn't very appealing. I just feel that Lucario just doesn't really stand out much, especially when compared to things like M-Medicham, M-Heracross, and Terrakion.
 
I think Forretress could go in D rank for now. Rapid Spin is a lot better than Defog when you think about it. If there are hazards on both sides of the field, Skarmory or Scizor has to get rid of the hazards you spent a turn setting up, and Skarmory has to use another turn to get SR back up and no competent player is going to give Skarmory two free turns. The increasing popularity of Taunt also makes Rapid Spin a more appealing option than Defog. There is a reason why alexwolf has been talking a lot about defensive Starmie even though it is not that bulky. Rapid Spin is just that superior to Defog. The only really good spinblocker in OU is Gengar, and it is hit hard by Gyro Ball on the switch. Forretress is comparable to Tentacruel as a utility Pokemon which is D rank, so I don't think it is a stretch to say that Forretress is viable in OU (but B- is way too high for it right now).
 
I can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet: Swampert is currently Unranked. While I don't think I'm good enough to assign a rank to it, saying that every other water/ground typed pokemon is on the list, I believe that it should be ranked at least SOMEWHERE.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top