I severely doubt Flame Body would be used by good players. Flash Fire is what gives Heatran the title of resisting the Dragon+Fire combo, only shared with Marill and Azumarill. It also allows it to absorb Fire-type attacks and retaliate with its boosted attacks. Flame Body is a horrible ability by itself, and it would make Heatran worse, so it will (probably) be never used.
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Pokémon Heatran
- Thread starter Ryuuki
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Flame body would be good if Genesect was still around, but he's not.
You could say that Flame Body is a decent way to punish Mega Mawile when switching into a Play Rough/Knock Off/Iron Head. An SD Mawile would even fear picking Tran off with Sucker Punch if weakened. Substitute variants still come out on top with Focus Punch.
It's a niche that Volcarona can't claim for fear of coverage and Sucker Punch..so that's something.
It's a niche that Volcarona can't claim for fear of coverage and Sucker Punch..so that's something.
I found this spread for Heatran...
Timid 68/0/172/16/0/252 (used by 17%)
Could someone please elaborate? What do the 16 SpeAtk KO (and with what attack)? Why the 68/172/0 defenses? To whatstand what physical attacks (perhaps a more reliable Bisharp/Mega Mawile counter) as it outspeeds all Bisharp (and Breloom, but it has to take Mach Punch). It has just enough speed to outspeed Adamant Excadrill. I was asking because I want a Heatran that isn't specially defensive. Certainly this set isn't Scarfed because only 3% of Heatran are Scarfed.
http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-05/moveset/ou-1825.0.txt
Timid 68/0/172/16/0/252 (used by 17%)
Could someone please elaborate? What do the 16 SpeAtk KO (and with what attack)? Why the 68/172/0 defenses? To whatstand what physical attacks (perhaps a more reliable Bisharp/Mega Mawile counter) as it outspeeds all Bisharp (and Breloom, but it has to take Mach Punch). It has just enough speed to outspeed Adamant Excadrill. I was asking because I want a Heatran that isn't specially defensive. Certainly this set isn't Scarfed because only 3% of Heatran are Scarfed.
http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-05/moveset/ou-1825.0.txt
Hey guys I am trying a bunch of new sets out with all these meta changes... I just made this heatran set, so let me know what you think about it.
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 52 HP / 204 Spd
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
I am not entirely sure what the best type of team this guy would be used for, but it would definitely fall under a more offensive team. The speed ev's let him outspeed 4 speed neutral base 100s, which is really nice for things like mew, but more importantly you can taunt every pokemon on any stall team even deo-d. The air balloon is just to make him a nice offensive pivot, and also counters a few gliscor sets. Fire blast is being used for maximum power and is worth the accuracy drop because he will probably have a free turn to use it anyway in conjunction with taunt and the air balloon. Earth power makes this set a nice heatran counter, and SR is nice because this will force switches, especially if you taunt a mew or something. Yeah I would lead off with him on most occasions, but I havent tested it yet so Ill update this if I need to.
Edit: OK WOW, I played one game with this set, I just gave heatran some random teammates(pretty bad team honestly), and he basically single handedly won me the game.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-133682316 ( I shouldve EP first turn but w/e)
This is cool because usually you see all this different sets, but never any proof that they work. Well here is proof and it only took one game to get lol.
Edit 2: I put a bit more speed on because honestly the extra 4 hp wont matter as much as outspeeding max speed adamant bisharp as well as neutral base 100s that run 16 speed
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 52 HP / 204 Spd
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
I am not entirely sure what the best type of team this guy would be used for, but it would definitely fall under a more offensive team. The speed ev's let him outspeed 4 speed neutral base 100s, which is really nice for things like mew, but more importantly you can taunt every pokemon on any stall team even deo-d. The air balloon is just to make him a nice offensive pivot, and also counters a few gliscor sets. Fire blast is being used for maximum power and is worth the accuracy drop because he will probably have a free turn to use it anyway in conjunction with taunt and the air balloon. Earth power makes this set a nice heatran counter, and SR is nice because this will force switches, especially if you taunt a mew or something. Yeah I would lead off with him on most occasions, but I havent tested it yet so Ill update this if I need to.
Edit: OK WOW, I played one game with this set, I just gave heatran some random teammates(pretty bad team honestly), and he basically single handedly won me the game.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-133682316 ( I shouldve EP first turn but w/e)
This is cool because usually you see all this different sets, but never any proof that they work. Well here is proof and it only took one game to get lol.
Edit 2: I put a bit more speed on because honestly the extra 4 hp wont matter as much as outspeeding max speed adamant bisharp as well as neutral base 100s that run 16 speed
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Wow, I was so impressed with Fire Blast and Earth Power, although it was primarily effective at hitting Terrakion on the switch. It also nice to have the Latios eliminated so you could at least get some damage with it. (Also, nice bit of arithmetic, since you realized that a Flash Fire boosted Fire Blast would do more if it is resisted than Earth Power)
But I am not convinced about the merits of a Modest nature over max speed Timid, as the latter outspeeds Adamant Excadrill and Jolly base 70s, although in the meta, they are not notably present, except for Breloom as Bisharp often runs Adamant. I really would not risk using Heatran against Gliscor since I remember that most of them run speed, at least enough to outspeed Adamant 80s. I think you could use a bit more speed if my math is correct, since a Adamant (are there any modests at this tier?) base 70 with max EVs can outrun your spread as you need 8 more Speed EVs to ensure you will out run them.
(Edit: I did that calc, although initially without checking it, and it was correct, and I highly recommend 8 more speed to beat the positive-natured base 70s.
My heuristic was the 8 EVs = 1 unadjusted base speed point, so 240 EVs then equal 30 base speed points. Since you claimed that your Heatran can outrun a base speed 100 with 4 speed EVs, giving Heatran a de facto speed of 101.0, and since an Adamant base 70 has a de facto speed of 101.5 (240 EVs = 30 base speed, and 12 EVs give it 1.5, then it is 70 + 30 + 1.5 =101.5), then 8 more speed would give Heatran a de facto Speed of 102.)
I believe it is worth considering over a physically defensive or offensive set because most Special Attackers in the meta can hit Heatran super-effectively.
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I like that set--it throws a new curve on the Heatran Gen 6 players are used to (myself included). That set takes advantage of the large number of switches that Heatran naturally forces with the SR, but Fire Blast's extra power is what really makes it good. A lot of people overlook Fire Blast as an option when doing calcs, and in your replay, they clearly were punished for that. I also think it's awesome that he hard walls Sub-Toxic Gliscor--that set (while not common) can be a major pain in the ass.
As for the team it fits on--I'd say volt-turn style teams. Heatran naturally forces a lot of switches, so if you have a team built around maintaining that momentum, he'll fit right in. You clearly had the right idea with Mega-Manectric, as he's a great pivot, and has nice synergy with Heatran (a lot of things that switch in against Heatran won't stay in against Mega-Man).
I feel it's worth pointing out that despite having a double resist to the new fairy type the loss of ghost and dark resists really negatively hinders tormentran. Tormentran worked because most pokemon only had a single move capable of breaking Heatran's sub. Now pokemon that use the common fight/ghost coverage can easily combat the set, as well as pokemon that now use dark coverage moves such as greninja. Physical attackers with enough strength to muscle past its sub with a resisted STAB like MPinsir are also a problem. Combined with the prevalence of defog making hazards even harder to keep down and the loss of perma sand Tormentran is looking to be a mostly ineffective strategy that will likely fish for default wins due to frustrated forfeits rather than legitimate wins, that is if it doesn't fail outright to start with.
Awesome set. Consider bumping up to 216 speed so as to outspeed Jolly Max Speed Ttar (i.e. pre-mega evo DD Ttar) which will allow you to get off some damage in a pinch (or even Taunt if you feel ballsy):
- 252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-172 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
Here is my Heatran set. It's worked out well for me in-game. I would like any constructive criticism.
Heatran
Air Balloon
Modest
228 HP/252 SAtk/28 Spe
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Hidden Power Ice
Stealth Rock
Heatran
Air Balloon
Modest
228 HP/252 SAtk/28 Spe
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Hidden Power Ice
Stealth Rock
Well, that spread, when Bold, ensures the 2HKO, instead of the OHKO, from +2 Mawile's Sucker Punch. But when Timid, it has a 37.5% change of being OHKOd after SR. Without SR, it perfectly avoids the OHKO. If the set uses protect, then it'd be fine Timid. I can't figure out what the special attack EVs do; Fire Blast OHKOs Mawile no matter what, and its other two Fire moves never do.
Protect is inherently risky because your opponent can set up sub or SD. I put in the calcs and apparently the stated EV spread gives Heatran a 2-3% advantage against a +2 Mega Mawile over the more common sense Max HP. It just seems so subtle, but it is worthwhile to prepare for the worse case scenario against Mega Mawile if you need to.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 68 HP / 172 Def Heatran: 267-315 (78.5 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 313-369 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 68 HP / 172 Def Heatran: 267-315 (78.5 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 313-369 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
What are some counters to Heatran? He's on almost every team and now I need a dedicated counter. No matter what I do, if he comes out, I have to guess between his stealth rocks, a hard hit, toxic, etc. Anything I switch in just forces him to switch out and begin and endless switching game.
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 52 HP / 204 Spd
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
this is a hard counter to heatran lol.
Other counters consist of things like keldeo,bulky waters in general, gliscor(with his toxic orb activted), there are other things that are good like landorus, hippowdon, ttar, but they all kinda fear the burn.
How about Suicune? It eats up any of Heatran's offensive moves with ease (save for the extremely rare power herb Solar Beam). Suicune can shrug off Lava Plume burns and Toxic with Rest and force it out with Scald or proceed to set up with Calm Mind on Heatran lacking Taunt/Roar.
Suicune might work. I currently switched to Entei. I also have Superpower on my Scizor and a Conk on my team. I think the most annoying part is that I try to predict switches only to find out that my opponent is just too random to predict and I never get the chance to even hit the damn thing because of switches, Protects, etc. I feel like I cannot devote one pokemon to fighting it because it always just switches out into something that covers Heatran which is usually immune or resistant to Ground/Fighting/Water. Pretty soon my whole team is going to have to start carrying anti Heatran moves just so I can nail it on a switch :/ This thing sucks to play against, its so ugly, so boring, and can beat anything that doesn't OHKO it.
How about Slowbro?
If we're talking hard counters, I don't think so, since some carry Toxic and Heatran's too bulky for Slowbro to KO by itself.
AV Entei with Bulldoze does wonders. It doesn't usually OHKO, but brings it dangerously low. Entei can switch into all of it's moves and sometimes even baits the thing out. Sometimes I throw out a Stone Edge first turn to bring him into KO range of BD so I can kill him on the next turn without him trying to switch out.
Stone edge is commonly used on most offensive heatrans like scarf, or even just spdef sets because it can OHKO chary and talonflame with no investment, so yeah that would work.
Every time I met people using Heatran,no one using that move.they're using HP rock or even Ancientpower instead
HP Rock is a waste. You could have another HP + AP, which gives you a 10% chance to raise all your stats. Plus unless you play IRL then it has no drawbacks
HP Rock is harder to PP stall with Roost.
More PP are welcomed instead boosting your stat.so that's why we should using physical rock(rock slide/stone edge)instead special rock
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