So this just indicates that a choice band works as normal after a ditto transforms? I thought that was normal...ditto keeps its item which then works like it was on the transform target.
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DP Research Thread #3 ("Newer")
- Thread starter obi
- Start date
posting to say that the OHKO moves description in the analysis forum is correct when talking about OHKO moves being not affected by accuracy/evasion modifiers (I wasn´t sure because only gravity proof was there)
TEST:
level 53 hippopotas holding zoom lens fissure vs level 50 roselia, 6 sweet scents were used before attacking, 2/2 missed
so, OHKO moves accuracy only works with the level formula posted some time ago
TEST:
level 53 hippopotas holding zoom lens fissure vs level 50 roselia, 6 sweet scents were used before attacking, 2/2 missed
so, OHKO moves accuracy only works with the level formula posted some time ago
I'm sorry, I mainly post things from there because a large amount of the data there is directly from the game. If think I've discovered a fair amount of things wrong with smogon's info by using veekun, and if you noticed, it's how I found Seed Flare actually greatly lowers special defense (because it has a different effect code), something that is STILL wrong in the move descriptions (though Veekun's description is wrong too).
I believe it's also been 100% accurate so far with all the moves people were testing about snatch/protect/detect interaction, and maybe with king's rock.
I'm not meaning to say anything bad about your or anyone else's research, but it's a valid resource for checking/discovering new information. I would have provided other references for Reversal power had I found any other sites with formulas. I didn't know about your post, though, so I guess I'll assume those weird percentages are valid for diamond/pearl then. Why does the damage formula thread have a *** for the move, though, if it's verified?
Just tested.
Two status'd pokemon out of battle, and heal bell cured the one that didn't have soundproof. It did not cure the one with soundproof.
One status'd pokemon in battle with soundproof, one status'd pokemon out of battle, and heal bell still cured the one out of battle (but gave a message that soundproof blocked heal bell for the soundproof pokemon, which didn't have its status cured).
So, soundproof blocks the effect only for the pokemon with soundproof, and doesn't make the move fail in general. I assume it works the same way with perish song (the pokemon with soundproof doesn't get a counter) but I haven't tested since I don't have anything with perish song.
a large amount of data is directly from the game: OK could you please tell me which data is real and which was just copied from another (unreliable) source?
examples of incorrect data: moves that hit flying/bouncing targets and reversal/flail are more than enough to not trust everything from there...lol you even named your own discovery
I don´t have a problem with you posting stuff from other sources and am thankful that you check our info, it´s just most of the time, you just leave it as it is or post questions...hey, there are research badge holders, why should I waste my time with testing? I don´t think we have an infinite amount of time and patience...
and yes, there is incorrect smogon info, just as there is incorrect info on other sites, the difference is that we are the ones that actually work on getting the correct info and others don´t give a ...
if there are things that weren´t changed even after being said a few times, just PM the person that can edit the post with enough proof of what you say (you know, people can´t keep track of everything), like you asked me about the OHKO formula where I answered with a test-result post in this topic
I know I shouldn´t care, but I´m a bit pissed now and took "those weird percentages" as a personal attack on my test results which don´t take 3 seconds but hours to be made you know
some (insert negative adjective) site posts (insert negative adjective) numbers but exact test results are "weird", I like that...
192/286 and 201/300 are nowhere near 70% (200/286 and 210/300)
98/286 and 103/300 are not 35% (100/286 and 105/300)
etc.
I´m probably not gonna test stuff for a particular amount of time...
I can ask Eevee. He was just complaining to me because he hardly ever gets feedback so he can put correct move info. I tell him things that are incorrect occasionally, so he can fix them.
I'm not quite sure I follow you here. I leave what stuff as is? Why should who waste their time testing? I have tested some stuff on my own; I don't have many high-level pokemon, I only have one DS, and I only have some 200-something in my pokedex, so I don't have many resources for testing for one thing. I'm at this very moment testing U-Turn+revenge, by the way.
Eevee is more than willing to correct his information, I believe, if he is notified of what is incorrect. He and others may not (and may not have the time) test everything, but they at least record information. It's certainly great that smogon people are testing things, and I don't mean to knock that at all. It's great, and it's helped me in my work a ton.
You're right, I should probably PM one of the admins when I see things that need edited in the move/ability/item description threads. I'm sorry if I'm spammed this thread with that stuff. I'm not sure I follow you about the OHKO formula, but presumably whatever it was was settled.
I publically apologize; I honestly didn't mean it that way at all. I appreciate very much all the testing that you've done, as does X-Act and others. We all know how hard you work on the stuff. What I meant was, I think that if your work is right (I assume it is, and the percentages are nailed down...like I said, I didn't see that post, sorry), then GAME FREAK/POKEMON uses weird percentages. I checked the ratios yesterday, and I see you included them in your post...and 2/6/13/22/43 is a very odd series in my opinion. I just thought it was weird that the game would be programmed in that way.
Again, I do not mean to attack you or any of your work; I just felt it wasn't fair what you said about Veekun since I've used it a lot to help myself and the research here, and like I said some of it is from the game. I believe Surgo told me about it, saying it was from the game data, to start with. I'm still waiting to see if Eevee knows which of his information is from the game.
I'm sorry for any offense.
Honestly, I haven't even played in months, and if nobody's complaining at me I cheerfully assume all is well. If you're looking for another primary source for anything involved, I'm a pretty terrible one.
(And yeah I probably rounded those numbers at some point because that's way easier to read than either four decimal places or x/256. Bad solution, sorry.)
English text I wrote is not ripped. I have done zero effect research. I'm in this for presentation.
Flags are still from R/S, and donated by chaos. I have the D/P flags floating around somewhere but don't display them yet. I don't even remember if I know what order they're in.
The sorts of things in this table and this other table are ripped.
I care, and I appreciate what you're doing. I sure don't have the patience for it.
I can sync up what I have with the various research threads, but that seems a little tasteless so I have been wary of doing it. Also, $job taking up time etc.
Answering my own question, just in case anyone cares about this minor detail: Revenge (and Avalanche presumably) doubles its power if the user is hit by U-Turn, even though Revenge in this case is technically targeting a different pokemon than the one that attacked it.
For all other moves, the Revenge user must be damaged this turn by the pokemon its attacking for the power to double.
For all other moves, the Revenge user must be damaged this turn by the pokemon its attacking for the power to double.
wow thanks for your post, and it´s good to see that you care also, I didn´t intend to attack any other site, it´s just that I naturally don´t trust things that aren´t tested (by me LOL) or don´t come from people I know that are reliable, yeah I suck
sorry I don´t understand everything you wrote, flags etc. are not my territory, but I hope others do and know what we can work with, so thanks
anyway, I don´t see a reason why you would want to have something wrong when you can fix it, I mean it would be a lot better for players if every site they try to find info on would have only accurate results...dunno if our research is property of smogon.com, I´d like to know what boss chaos thinks about this :)
on an unrelated note, I still can´t believe the game mentions the steps to hatch as 5120, 3840 etc. (maybe they´re just group codes for the internal egg counter)
btw. do I know you? what was your NB nick?
go me for ruining a research topic...
sorry I don´t understand everything you wrote, flags etc. are not my territory, but I hope others do and know what we can work with, so thanks
anyway, I don´t see a reason why you would want to have something wrong when you can fix it, I mean it would be a lot better for players if every site they try to find info on would have only accurate results...dunno if our research is property of smogon.com, I´d like to know what boss chaos thinks about this :)
on an unrelated note, I still can´t believe the game mentions the steps to hatch as 5120, 3840 etc. (maybe they´re just group codes for the internal egg counter)
btw. do I know you? what was your NB nick?
go me for ruining a research topic...
double post, this has some test results:
Baton Pass:
Lock-On: 6 sand attacked magnezone locked-on on aipom with 6, 6 and 3 double teams (3 tests), aipom baton passed, magnezone used zap cannon, 3/3 hit
Lock-On (presumably Mind Reader, as well) is Baton Passed
Fly: Does Twister hit a Flying Pokemon?
TEST:
lv. 31 gyarados, 42sA twister vs 67sD chatot with fly
calculated normal damage: 7-9
double base power damage: 13-16
damage done while flying: 15
damage done to a non-flying target: 8
Twister works exactly like Gust, it hits a flying pkmn with double base power
I assume the same goes for a bouncing pkmn, as they are identical in this regard
Me First: It copies Revenge, which means also Avalanche
TEST:
Lickitung used Me First! Lickitung used Revenge! Machoke used Revenge!
No Guard + OHKO move
lv. 58 abomasnow sheer cold against lv.53 no guard machoke
ignored no guard accuracy: 35%
no guard accuracy: 100%
test: 10/10 hit
the only moves left are:
Assist: What cannot be selected?
Disable: How long does it last?
How to test: Use Disable, count how long it lasts. At least 15 trials should be good.
Encore: How many turns does it last? Test results privided by ShadowYoshi and show encore lasting 4-8 turns.
How to test: Use Encore, count how long it lasts. At least 15 trials should be good.
Magic Coat: Is Teeter Dance bounced back? Anyone with a Spinda to test this?
Metronome: Anyone up for a test where you wait for almost 500 attacks to be selected?
Mind Reader + OHKO move: OHKO move will always hit.
Mist: Does it block Haze, Heart Swap, Power Swap, or Intimidate?
Secret Power: Is the chance of these effect occurring 30% for all of them?
Sleep Talk: Any other moves besides Focus Punch not chosen?
Baton Pass:
Lock-On: 6 sand attacked magnezone locked-on on aipom with 6, 6 and 3 double teams (3 tests), aipom baton passed, magnezone used zap cannon, 3/3 hit
Lock-On (presumably Mind Reader, as well) is Baton Passed
Fly: Does Twister hit a Flying Pokemon?
TEST:
lv. 31 gyarados, 42sA twister vs 67sD chatot with fly
calculated normal damage: 7-9
double base power damage: 13-16
damage done while flying: 15
damage done to a non-flying target: 8
Twister works exactly like Gust, it hits a flying pkmn with double base power
I assume the same goes for a bouncing pkmn, as they are identical in this regard
Me First: It copies Revenge, which means also Avalanche
TEST:
Lickitung used Me First! Lickitung used Revenge! Machoke used Revenge!
No Guard + OHKO move
lv. 58 abomasnow sheer cold against lv.53 no guard machoke
ignored no guard accuracy: 35%
no guard accuracy: 100%
test: 10/10 hit
the only moves left are:
Assist: What cannot be selected?
Disable: How long does it last?
How to test: Use Disable, count how long it lasts. At least 15 trials should be good.
Encore: How many turns does it last? Test results privided by ShadowYoshi and show encore lasting 4-8 turns.
How to test: Use Encore, count how long it lasts. At least 15 trials should be good.
Magic Coat: Is Teeter Dance bounced back? Anyone with a Spinda to test this?
Metronome: Anyone up for a test where you wait for almost 500 attacks to be selected?
Mind Reader + OHKO move: OHKO move will always hit.
Mist: Does it block Haze, Heart Swap, Power Swap, or Intimidate?
Secret Power: Is the chance of these effect occurring 30% for all of them?
Sleep Talk: Any other moves besides Focus Punch not chosen?
I have a teeter dance spinda left over from my confusion testing. I'll do this.
No, no one is.
Yes it seems to be 4-8 turns. Here are my tests and results:
Test 1: 4 Turns
Test 2: 8 Turns
Test 3: 5 Turns
Test 4: 5 Turns
Test 5: 6 Turns
Test 6: 6 Turns
Test 7: 8 Turns
Test 8: 6 Turns
Test 9: 4 Turns
Test 10: 7 Turns
Test 11: 6 Turns
Test 12: 6 Turns
Test 13: 7 Turns
Test 14: 8 Turns
Test 15: 6 Turns
awesome test ShadoeYoshiX, thanks
44-55-666666-77-888
hmm 6 seems to happen more often (I´m gonna get more results myself tomorrow)
also added Obi´s question...with an aswer - a test result: lv. 58 abomasnow sheer cold against lv.53 no guard machoke
ignored no guard accuracy: 35%
no guard accuracy: 100%
test: 10/10 hit
probability to get this with 35% accuracy is very low (0,002%?)
44-55-666666-77-888
hmm 6 seems to happen more often (I´m gonna get more results myself tomorrow)
also added Obi´s question...with an aswer - a test result: lv. 58 abomasnow sheer cold against lv.53 no guard machoke
ignored no guard accuracy: 35%
no guard accuracy: 100%
test: 10/10 hit
probability to get this with 35% accuracy is very low (0,002%?)
Edit: Ignore this for now.
I can't send this as a PM to Amazing Ampharos, so I'm asking here...
In his substitute description, it says:
"Damage dealt to Substitutes does not count toward doubling the power of Revenge, Avalance, or Payback."
Payback apparently doubles in power if the target has taken ANY action, including switching (as far as I know)...so does it still double if something attacks the substitute user before they user payback?
And if anyone would like me to stop asking questions here, please let me know. :P
In his substitute description, it says:
"Damage dealt to Substitutes does not count toward doubling the power of Revenge, Avalance, or Payback."
Payback apparently doubles in power if the target has taken ANY action, including switching (as far as I know)...so does it still double if something attacks the substitute user before they user payback?
And if anyone would like me to stop asking questions here, please let me know. :P
SYX, I don't think that test can be considered reliable, due to the fact that OHKOs only have proper accuracy if both are at the same level. I have a couple questions to ask, and they don't seem to be simple, so here they are for you guys :
1. Does Simple work with Evasion and Accuracy? The chart for Evasion is as follows IIRC :
-6 : (Move Accuracy) x 3
-5 : (Move Accuracy) x 2.6666
-4 : (Move Accuracy) x 2.3333
-3 : (Move Accuracy) x 2
-2 : (Move Accuracy) x 1.6666
-1 : (Move Accuracy) x 1.3333
0 : Move Accuracy
+1 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.75
+2 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.6
+3 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.5
+4 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.4285
+5 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.375
+6 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.3333
Reverse the chart to get Accuracy. Now, how would a Simple Pokémon use this chart, assuming Accuracy/Evasion works with them?
2. With Motor Drive, I get the impression Speed increases 50% each time the user is "hit" by an Electric attack. Is this true? If so, what is the maximum amount of boosts?
3. How is the Speed stat calculated in battle? Is it :
(Original Stat x Stat Modifier x Ability Modifer x Item Modifier) x Tailwind Boost
Or something else? Also, by Item Modifier, this would only be Choice Scarf. And I know Speed Boost and Steadfast aren't Ability Modifiers. Is this where the Tailwind boost goes is what I really want to know.
1. Does Simple work with Evasion and Accuracy? The chart for Evasion is as follows IIRC :
-6 : (Move Accuracy) x 3
-5 : (Move Accuracy) x 2.6666
-4 : (Move Accuracy) x 2.3333
-3 : (Move Accuracy) x 2
-2 : (Move Accuracy) x 1.6666
-1 : (Move Accuracy) x 1.3333
0 : Move Accuracy
+1 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.75
+2 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.6
+3 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.5
+4 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.4285
+5 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.375
+6 : (Move Accuracy) x 0.3333
Reverse the chart to get Accuracy. Now, how would a Simple Pokémon use this chart, assuming Accuracy/Evasion works with them?
2. With Motor Drive, I get the impression Speed increases 50% each time the user is "hit" by an Electric attack. Is this true? If so, what is the maximum amount of boosts?
3. How is the Speed stat calculated in battle? Is it :
(Original Stat x Stat Modifier x Ability Modifer x Item Modifier) x Tailwind Boost
Or something else? Also, by Item Modifier, this would only be Choice Scarf. And I know Speed Boost and Steadfast aren't Ability Modifiers. Is this where the Tailwind boost goes is what I really want to know.
I just realized that. I'll try to get better results tomorrow.
From Peterko:
If this isn't known, maybe I can test something, but it's hard to do foe testing in 2v2 with one DS. I've seen that guy who bonds with his daughter a LOT.
If I understand your post right, though, first your partner gets hit, then the fastest enemy? Does anyone think we need to worry about whether "faster" includes speed boosts, swift swim, quick claw, priority moves, etc.? >____>;
Surgo said he didn't know how this works, and I don't know where to look about it...is there a set order, then, for which order pokemon get hit in 2v2? I was wondering if it would matter when you factor in destiny bond/aftermath/rough skin. Like, do you use surf on one pokemon, and die, or use surf on one pokemon, take damage, then use surf on the next? Or do you use the attack on everything, and then take all the effects?
If this isn't known, maybe I can test something, but it's hard to do foe testing in 2v2 with one DS. I've seen that guy who bonds with his daughter a LOT.
If I understand your post right, though, first your partner gets hit, then the fastest enemy? Does anyone think we need to worry about whether "faster" includes speed boosts, swift swim, quick claw, priority moves, etc.? >____>;
If it's speed based, the Glameow should always be hit by the multi-target move first since it's got 40 speed and the Stunky has 36 speed. (All in-game Pokemon have Hardy nature and have 0 IVs in everything, with the exception of the all-flawless Battle Tower Pokemon. Or so says yamipoli.)
EDIT: In several tests, Glameow was always the first foe to be hurt by Surf. When I used Scary Face to lower Glameow's speed, the Stunky became the first foe to go down to Surf.