ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

[Gary]

ORAS Forgot to Use

Credit to brightobject for the amazing banner!

Introduction

​

Welcome to the FU Metagame for X&Y! Because PU wasn't enough, Forgot to Use allows all the PU Pokemon that are 3.4% or lower in the 1760 usage stats to be used. Surprisingly, there are quite a lot of decent Pokemon available to use.

Forgot to Use is playable by simply challenging your friends on Pokemon Showdown (simply select PU on Pokemon Showdown and make sure that both players are aware that they should be using Forgot to Use teams). You can easily go on SynIRC and join #xyfu to chat in real time with fellow Forgot to Use players and maybe find battles. Because the PU meta is still very young, tier shifts will happen every month until the ladder is stabilized in order to keep this tier interesting.

Forgot to Use Co Leader: Mambo
Forgot to Use Council:
unfixable


Forgot to Use follows all standard Smogon clauses and bans.

Banlist:
http://pastebin.com/tZyGYezM By usage
Vigoroth
Regice
Stoutland
Machoke
Sticky Web
Ursaring
Barbaracle
Chatot

A team cannot have any of the Pokemon found in the following tiers: PU, NU, BL3, RU, BL2, UU, BL, OU, and Ubers.

threatlist

Ariados
Articuno
Bastiodon
Beartic
Butterfree
Clefairy
Delibird
Ditto
Dodrio
Dragonair
Driftblim
Dusclops
Dwebble
Electabuzz
Electrode
Flareon
Fraxure
Frogadier
Gabite
Gigalith
Glaceon
Gogoat
Gourgeist-Small/Large
Hippopotas
Huntail
Hypno
Kingler
Klang
Lairon
Lampent
Lapras
Leavanny
Lickitung
Linoone
Lumineon
Luxray
Magcargo
Magmar
Masquerain
Meganium
Meowstic-M/F
Metang
Murkrow
Octillery
Pineco
Politoed
Purugly
Quilladin
Rampardos
Raticate
Relicanth
Regigigas
Scraggy
Seaking
Servine
Seviper
Shedinja
Shelgon
Simisage
Simisear
Slaking
Sliggoo
Solrock
Spritzee
Staravia
Swalot
Swanna
Swoobat
Tropius
Vullaby
Wailord
Walrein
Wartortle
Whirlipede
Whiscash
Yanma
Zweilous

Viability Rankings

http://piratepad.net/6CRSpQzHdS

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the Forgot to Use metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

S+ rank

Electabuzz

Fraxure

S Rank

Murkrow

S- Rank

Articuno

Simisage


A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Forgot to Use metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.
A+ Rank

Clefairy

Dodrio

Lairon

Metang

Quillidin

Raticate

Simisear
A Rank

Gogoat

Golduck

Huntail

Kingler

Krokorok

Rampardos

Seviper

Swanna
A- Rank

Dusclops

Electrode

Flareon

Gabite

Gigalith

Gourgeist-S

Lapras

Marshstomp

Persian

Politoed

Regigigas

Stunfisk

Swoobat

Wartortle

Zweilous

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Forgot to Use metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
B+

Butterfree

Ditto

Dwebble

Illumise

Linoone

Luxray

Meowstic-M

Purugly

Relicanth

Servine

Solrock

Spritzee

Vibrava

Vullaby

Whiscash

Wigglytuff

B Rank

Bastiodon

Beartic

Bellossom

Carbink

Dragonair

Fearow

Frogadier

Girafarig

Glaceon

Gourgeist-L

Klang

Leavanny

Magcargo

Mothim

Noctowl

Seaking

Staravia

Venipede

Whirlipede

B- Rank

Chimecho

Delibird

Furfrou

Hippopotas

Lumineon

Meowstic-F

Octillery

Scraggy

Shedinja

Swalot

Wormadam-Trash

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the Forgot to Use metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

C Rank

Anorith

Diglett

Emolga

Carvanha

Lampent

Lickitung

Magmar

Magnemite

Natu

Slaking

Slowpoke

Snover

Sudowoodo

Tentacool

Unfezant

Yanma

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Forgot to Use metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

D Rank

Marill

Sandshrew

E Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are near unviable in the Forgot to Use metagame, and are only ranked because of an extremely minute niche that very rarely makes them useful on select teams. A few Pokemon in this rank aren't even considered viable at all, and are only placed in this rank because they have no where else to go.

Dustox

Furret

Unown

Sample Sets

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-forgot-to-use-fu.3519286/page-30#post-6255607

Speed Tiers

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ticky-web-banned.3519286/page-16#post-5975026

Have fun!

 

[VanGru]

Wow, there are certainly a few pokemon that really don't deserve to be here :/ sawsbuck really? :/

 

[Pikachuun]

I was going to do this you monster D:
Also maybe Pikachu could be viable this time, with its big brother Raichu out of the tier it is essentially one of the only Electric types in the tier (besides Stunfisk and Electabuzz), and considering all of the Flying and Water types in the OP it could be at least decent. Then again, it has to have Light Ball, so it'll probably be outclassed by Electabuzz. But hey, ExtremeSpeed is still cool!

 

[Ranger Mike]

Lol I like how we have kricketune offense will also be far superior due to missy being in the meta and being the godly stall breaker she is. Anyways I'm gonna start off with saying that a linoone suspect is p important as because meowstic m is somehow in this thing it can support linoone with dual screens and twave. If anyone can name a stop to Linoone that is within the threatlist that can switch into linoone's attacks and wall it I will withdraw this statement. Also I don't wanna be too suspect heavy but CB zweilous seems impossible to switch into and the fact that it has webs only makes it so much better, with the right predictions zweilous can beat all it's checks, maybe it could run life orb just to make it so that it doesn't rely so heavily on predictions. Also nvm about that stall thing roselia is in the tier LOL WUT. Webs seems like the best playstyle in the meta cause it has so many pokemon that benefit from it such as wailord who can spam specs boosted water spout.

 

[Anttya]

Staravia <3

Although it'll be facing competition w/ Prinplup, Murkrow, and Vullaby and maybe Bananasaur. Staravia gets Intimidate, and reliable recovery (Unlike Prinplup and Bananasaur.) Bird spam looks pretty viable as well. Also, Linoone's going to be a big threat since it can kill / outspeed Gourgiest w/ Shadow Claw. Everything else gets obliterated by Extremespeed or Shadow Claw

Edit: Tfw Linoone has 100 base speed and Gourgiest-Small has 99... I think it was meant to be :[

 

[Palpitoad707]

This definitely looks like an interesting meta, taking the worst of the worst of the worst. Webs will probably be dominate, just because of the amount of Pokemon that can abuse them. You don't even really need a spinblocker, because the only spinner in the tier is Delibird, and it's 4x weak to rocks. This looks like it will be a meta of defoggers, and there a few decent ones, like Prinplup, Murkrow, Staravia, and Vullaby. One thing that probably definitely needs to be banned is Linoone. If it sets up, it's basically over. Nothing can really switch in on it, and it reaches a crucial base 100 speed, outspeeding practically everything. This meta does look like a lot of fun though!

 

[Anthiese]

I literally tried to think of something that wants to be in on Linoone.

Nobody. Wants. To. Deal. With. That.

ESpeed / Shadow Claw / Seed Bomb is perfect coverage literally no one wants this mon to hit them.

+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Metang: 298-352 (92.2 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Metang: 236-278 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Linoone Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Carbink: 274-324 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

and then i found these glorious calcs

+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 95-112 (29.3 - 34.5%) -- 8.1% chance to 3HKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 111-131 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 63-75 (19.4 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO

GO KLANG GO

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Sawsbuck and Victreebel stand out to me right away. Both are some of the best Chlorphyll Sweepers (I mean there's not a lot of competition, but still,) and there's Meowstic-M notably who has Prankster Sunny Day. Some other stuff could use Sunny Day too I guess idk.

No Fire types really stand out, aside from Simisear cause of its speed tier. Considering it gets Nasty Plot, it might end up being a pretty good Pokemon and frighteningly powerful under sun.

So yeah Sun could be stronk.

By the way 10/10 name for the tier. After we figure out the top threats we need some artist to make a logo of them flipping the bird.

 

[Ranger Mike]

B-b-b-b-but rocks since this tier has even shittier removers than pu cause there are obviously less mons, tbh you can just assume rocks +3 spikes with every calc lol.

 

[Camden]

I remember wanting to get into PU but I never did. Maybe FU is what I needed to play all along...

I see some fun Pokemon to use in that list, like Scraggy/Missy, but Jumpluff could also be fun to play with.

 

[tennisace]

Articuno, Vullaby, Swanna, and Prinplup are all viable Defog users in this tier. Also lets not talk about suspects for a while unless something proves to be absolutely ridiculous with playtesting. The tier has literally been in existence for ~1 hour, cool your jets please.

 

[antemortem]

feeling that Huntail is gonna be a shitty pain the neck once again

 

[Lord Wallace]

Zweilous is going to be a threat [: nice Hustle Outrage with basically no Fairy types in the tier

 

[Jaguar360]

So, spinners...we have Spinda, Delibird, Tentacool, Staryu, Anorith, Bergmite, Shellder, Drilbur, Pineco, Kabuto, Sandshrew, Tyrouge and Squirtle...that's really bad. I guess Tentacool, Staryu, bulky Drilbur and Anorith could possibly be decent at the job, but Defogging seems 100% better unless you have a team that really needs to keep hazards up.

And just how are Swanna and Articuno FU anyway? And Kricketune? Use these more in PU people.

 

[Imanalt]

So i've been playing with some people for a couple days now, and so far regice has been ridiculous. It doesn't die to anything at all, and hits like a truck. your average special attacker can do maybe 20% (things like specs fire blast from octillery don't even 2hko regice running 0 sdef investment...). Basically the only way to kill it is keep rocks up (which is hard because there aren't many good rocks setters) and have multiple physical attackers who outrun and have SE stab... Unfortunately the list of those is VERY short. Regice definitely looks to be the number 1 threat to prepare for and a possible future issue if the meta doesn't shift to deal with it

Also interesting so far has been scarf krokorok, which is a very good check to swoobat, able to outrun and ohko, as well as revenging other threats such as simisear. And that's before we get into its ability to sweep lategame with moxie, or cripple stall by knocking off eviolites and/or pursuittrapping mons like grumpig. Basically it does good things against all teams other than webs, so use it :O

EDIT: oh the other thing i forgot to mention was quilladin. It has insane physical bulk, spikes, recovery, phazing, etc. It is a bit of a momentum killer, but its also one of the best physical walls in the tier, should be a staple on most stall teams.

 

[Hot N Cold]

stall looks op.

np

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Articuno, Vullaby, Swanna, and Prinplup are all viable Defog users in this tier.

Bring on the 4x Stealth Rock-weak Defogger lol

feeling that Huntail is gonna be a shitty pain the neck once again

Yea, I'm curious as to how it's allowed THIS LOW. I haven't really played PU or anything yet, though, so ehh...



I'm really shocked to see Walrein, Sawsbuck, and Electabuzz this low as well.

 

[antemortem]

Bring on the 4x Stealth Rock-weak Defogger lol



Yea, I'm curious as to how it's allowed THIS LOW. I haven't really played PU or anything yet, though, so ehh...



I'm really shocked to see Walrein, Sawsbuck, and Electabuzz this low as well.

Walrein and Regice will be really nice special walls, and I'm not sure which will be more fun to use. If I recall from Gen 4/5 NU, Regice is hugely more offensive than Walrein, though ToxicSub should make for easy pickings in the low-ish offense environment, apart from things like Huntail, Sawsbuck, and Electabuzz, with proper support.

also I don't think Articuno should be defogging, if anything it's the FU version of RU Moltres. no point in slapping the move on something that's going to be half dead using it already. leave that to Vullaby or Prinplup

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

This tier does seem like fun. (It seems to have a lot of broken shit though) Though I do have to say something:
| 56 | Slaking | 3.50075% | 13877 | 4.886% | 11198 | 4.778% |
Why?

 

[Cobracorp]

As mentioned before Hazards look they will be play quite a big part in the tier. Huntail and Sticky web is going to be a real pain to take on. I'm honestly surprised that Drifblim is going to be in this tier. I really hope Prinplup manages to hold up as a decent defogger otherwise let the hazard spam commence.

 

[astromund]

Autisticat (Meowstic-F) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Substitute

I can see Meowstic-F becoming an extremely important mon in this tier given how dominant hazards look right now. LO Competitive discourages any attempts at webs or defogging, since +2 psyshock destroys just about everything that's not a bulky psychic or dark type. Tbolt wrecks almost every single hazard remover mentioned in this thread (most of which are water or flying), and Signal Beam covers darks and psychics. Base 104 speed puts it far ahead of almost everything bar scarfers and sucker punch users, the latter of which can be avoided with substitute. You could even go Sub/CM or give it fake out for a (super dumb) anti-lead if you really wanted to.

 

[Imanalt]

Walrein and Regice will be really nice special walls, and I'm not sure which will be more fun to use. If I recall from Gen 4/5 NU, Regice is hugely more offensive than Walrein, though ToxicSub should make for easy pickings in the low-ish offense environment, apart from things like Huntail, Sawsbuck, and Electabuzz, with proper support.

also I don't think Articuno should be defogging, if anything it's the FU version of RU Moltres. no point in slapping the move on something that's going to be half dead using it already. leave that to Vullaby or Piplup

What does walrein have over lapras? Lapras has better bulk, better offensive presence because of its movepool, and has better support moves with heal bell and perish song.

 

[Dylan1244]

| 101 | Wigglytuff | 1.43700% | 6777 | 2.386% | 5386 | 2.298% |

So , is wigglytuff FU? i really love this thing <3

 

[canno]

Butterfree looks neat here - for once, it's happy to have a Flying-typing because it can just fly about those pesky Sticky Webs.

 

[antemortem]

Butterfree looks neat here - for once, it's happy to have a Flying-typing because it can just fly about those pesky Sticky Webs.

it's also faster than Masquerain and Dustox and gets Sleep Powder, so it's probably the most effective Quiver Dancer in the metagame. I was talking with some people and we think that despite Dustox's pretty subpar offenses, it can run a QD/Roost/Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball spread to cover its bases quite effectively. it will have problems with things like Magmar by virtue of type matchup but the coverage is decent and given a few boosts, it might be able to truck through obstacles