Or Cotton Guard.
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. +3 252 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 79-93 (22.3 - 26.2%) -- 14.5% chance to 4HKO
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
- Status
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. +3 252 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 79-93 (22.3 - 26.2%) -- 14.5% chance to 4HKO
Also, these:
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 376-444 (95.4 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 180-212 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (65.3 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 260-308 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
While none of these are guaranteed OHKOs like Xerneas is, they're still pretty impressive.
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 376-444 (95.4 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 180-212 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (65.3 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 260-308 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
While none of these are guaranteed OHKOs like Xerneas is, they're still pretty impressive.
I am not sure how worth an exploding Mega is (I am speaking of Glalie). If I remember correctly, Jolly Explosion does kill 4 HP/ 252 Def Eviolith Chansey, but what does it do otherwise?
Is the offensive pressure alone really worth for a Spike-Suicide Lead when it is costing you a mega slot?
Just think about that for a second, if it can actually take hits with 80/80/80 and ice typing and being SR weak.
Basicly what I am trying to say, for that insanely powerful Explosion, nothing is immun to, you are wasting a Mega Slot that you can use for other, more versitile Pokemon, and with the huge selection of Megas we are getting, I am sure you can find at the very least 5 that could fullfill that expectation.
Unlike with other Exploders in the past, while you don't have to worry about Ghost Types, you want to save your Explosion for a centain threat in a team. Like you want to kill a Chansey but your opponent switches a weakened Landorus, while it might be a threat, it could have been something you might have handled with something else rather easiely.
Is the offensive pressure alone really worth for a Spike-Suicide Lead when it is costing you a mega slot?
Just think about that for a second, if it can actually take hits with 80/80/80 and ice typing and being SR weak.
Basicly what I am trying to say, for that insanely powerful Explosion, nothing is immun to, you are wasting a Mega Slot that you can use for other, more versitile Pokemon, and with the huge selection of Megas we are getting, I am sure you can find at the very least 5 that could fullfill that expectation.
Unlike with other Exploders in the past, while you don't have to worry about Ghost Types, you want to save your Explosion for a centain threat in a team. Like you want to kill a Chansey but your opponent switches a weakened Landorus, while it might be a threat, it could have been something you might have handled with something else rather easiely.
Explosion has always been a valuable move in the first 4 generations, and what does it matter if it's a mega the only viable user of this move now? It's not like a mega is automatically the strongest member of your team.
That's the part where you predict and use another move like Spikes or Return/Double-Edge... nobody says you HAVE to explode on the first turn.
It matters in that you had an opportunity to have something so much better there. What would you rather - an easy to set up Dragon Dancer like Charizard X, a fantastic wallbreaker like Mega Gardevoir, an incredible Swift Swimmer that easily sets itself up and 2HKOs/OHKOs most the metagame like Mega Swampert... or something that takes up your Mega Slot just to take down one Pokémon with it, and even then it's hard for it to survive at all to pull off this job.
There are merits to using a powerful Explosion as your Mega of choice. It can really be helpful against some faster and frailer teams if it gets a free turn. Clearing the way as a hole-puncher is a worthy use of a Mega slot, this case just happens to have a one time use for a much bigger dent. Not to mention it can also Return spam until it finds the right window to use Explosion, as well as Spike setting. In addition to that, the nature of Explosion allows you to get something frail in safely after Glailie goes down.
Problem with that is that Glalie is pretty damn frail with a horrendous defensive typing, and it's speed leaves a lot to be desired - if it's up against fast, frail teams, I doubt it'll survive more than one turn. It is a unique niche, sure, but is it really a good unique niche considering the rest of the metagame and all your other choices for a Mega Slot?
I have a question about this: is discussion about what tier a mega could be in included in this rule or no? Like saying how Glalie is only UU material at best or how Pidgeot will probably be BL? I'm assuming its alright since there haven't been any issues with this sort of discussion, but towering does apply to this sort of discussion...
It may not be a good niche, but it does more than Explode and die. That's more what I was leaning towards.
It's fine, as long as you stay focused in OU talk and don't talk about OU bans or Uber Pokemon getting unbanned.
Other than megamence(who will probably gonna be banned) the most interesting mega in my opinion is mega gallade-
A great 165 attack stat(only second to mega hera, kyu-b and mega cham) backed up with a 110 based thats let it outspeed/speedtie most of current threats in the OU metagame(and alot of those that are about to come in ORAS). To add to all this he gets fantastic stab in close combat, a priority in shadow sneak and can boost his attack even more with swords dance, which is not that hard with 68/95/115 defenses which are actually nice for a sweeper/wallbreaker.
Defiantly the mon I most waiting for to use.
A great 165 attack stat(only second to mega hera, kyu-b and mega cham) backed up with a 110 based thats let it outspeed/speedtie most of current threats in the OU metagame(and alot of those that are about to come in ORAS). To add to all this he gets fantastic stab in close combat, a priority in shadow sneak and can boost his attack even more with swords dance, which is not that hard with 68/95/115 defenses which are actually nice for a sweeper/wallbreaker.
Defiantly the mon I most waiting for to use.
Last edited:
Just a quick note it's base speed is 110.
Thanks for correcting me, changed it.
What do you think about investing a bit in beedrils defensive? due to its low base investing even a bit would have rather big effects. i think you can always give it 48 def evs due to 208 speed evs letting him outspeed greninja after mevo.
Then you could also give it a bit of the attack evs into defense - i know it actually needs everything possible due to his rather low bp attacks and it misses some important ohkos._., but i think it could be still worthwile in this case to survive some priorities.
Beedrill @ Beedrillite
adamant
252 Atk /48 def/ 208 Spe
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Knock Off
or
Beedrill @ Beedrillite
adamant
172 Atk /128 def/ 208 Spe
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Knock Off
calcs:
Then you could also give it a bit of the attack evs into defense - i know it actually needs everything possible due to his rather low bp attacks and it misses some important ohkos._., but i think it could be still worthwile in this case to survive some priorities.
Beedrill @ Beedrillite
adamant
252 Atk /48 def/ 208 Spe
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Knock Off
or
Beedrill @ Beedrillite
adamant
172 Atk /128 def/ 208 Spe
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Knock Off
calcs:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 160-190 (59 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 147-174 (54.2 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Beedrill: 127-150 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 240-283 (88.5 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Beedrill: 190-225 (70.1 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 516-608 (129.6 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 488-576 (122.6 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 237-281 (87.4 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 218-257 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Beedrill: 190-224 (70.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 428-508 (159.7 - 189.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 408-480 (152.2 - 179.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
However it would miss 3 important ohkos with less atk, but the diffence isnt that great:
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 376-444 (95.4 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 356-420 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 284-336 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 270-318 (90.3 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 376-444 (93 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 356-420 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Other offensive calcs:
252+ Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 408-480 (105.9 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
172+ Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 384-456 (99.7 - 118.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 147-174 (54.2 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Beedrill: 127-150 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 240-283 (88.5 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Beedrill: 190-225 (70.1 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 516-608 (129.6 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 488-576 (122.6 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 237-281 (87.4 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 218-257 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Beedrill: 190-224 (70.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 428-508 (159.7 - 189.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 408-480 (152.2 - 179.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
However it would miss 3 important ohkos with less atk, but the diffence isnt that great:
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 376-444 (95.4 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 356-420 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 284-336 (94.9 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 270-318 (90.3 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 376-444 (93 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
172+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 356-420 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Other offensive calcs:
252+ Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 408-480 (105.9 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
172+ Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 384-456 (99.7 - 118.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
I can see that working, because it's base Defense it only 40! and yea it really does need that high attack because of it's low bp on it's STAB moves, such as poison jab, which is still 80.
From my experience with doubles, Ludicolo is a great rain sweeper, and will be a good partner to Swampert in OU. It should run enough special attack to OHKO Rotom-Wash and 2HKO Mega Venusaur with Giga Drain and Ice Beam respectively. Damp Rock Politoed and Rain Dance Thundurus will also be good partners to set rain for Swampert.
In Übers, where I'm sure it will be also viable (not banned to), Kyoger and Aegislash will be great partners. Kyoger can do the obvious rain setting, and Aegislash can weaken a lot of stuff down turning 2HKOes onto OHKOes and just benefits from the rain.
Overall, I am very excited for Mega-Swampert and one of the first compedative teams I am going to build when the new games come out will be a Mega Swampert based rain team.
i honestly don't see the reason to invest in defense since its defenses are pretty non-exstint . lol 65/40/80. blasphemous. what are those defensive Ev's going to let your survive , lol. it may seem to work but I'm 3/4 on nah 1/4 on sure why not. nice idea tho :]
It could help you survive the aqua jet from Band Azu and Craw... I mean investment actually makes a bigger difference on lower stats.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 240-283 (88.5 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 237-281 (87.4 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 218-257 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It helps you survive Luvdisc's waterfall, of course.
ooo..didn't see those calcs. thanks for telling me :] now i see the difference.
edit; what Dillon~ said below me, is it still really worth it tho? sure beedril can now guarantee 2HKO from lo crawdaunt and banded azu, but now it's pretty much useless for battle after taking 90%, so you're going to have to be careful about hazards and all that stuff
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 48 Def Beedrill: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 48 HP / 0 Def Beedrill: 243-286 (85.8 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Like I said, investing in the lowest stat always makes the biggest difference.
Avoiding the OHKO from ubiquitous pokemon is always worth it, especially since there isn't much you're sacrificing.
So I've noticed some things I haven't noticed after all the days I've been lurking on this thread, so here goes....
Mega Swampert seems like a fantastic Pokemon on a rain team. Obviously, rain teams will become more popular now. But there's one rain abuser that stands out to me, particularly because of it's ability to check Mega Swampert. This Pokemon is Ludicolo.
Ludicolo has x4 resistance to Waterfall, and x2 to Earthquake. This makes Ludicolo a great switch-in to either of Swampert's STABs. Ludicolo can also OHKO back with Giga Drain, and heal off at least 50% of the damage it took from Swampert's attacks. I think this set would be pretty good:
Ludicolo@Leftovers/ Life Orb
Swift Swim
148 HP/ 252 SpA/ 108 Spe or 204 HP/ 252 SpA/ 52 Spe
Modest
-Scald
-Giga Drain
-Ice Beam
-Hydro Pump/ Rain Dance/ something else
First set of EVs allow it to outspeed Mega Manectric under rain, while second spread allows it to outspeed Greninja under rain. Special Attack EVs are self explanatory. HP for more bulk. Here are some calcs against Swampert (and some other possible useful stuff):
252+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 388-460 (96 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)(that's as bulky as any Mega Swampert will go, most will probably run less HP)
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 134-158 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Swampert Superpower vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 214-252 (63.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (only thing Ludicolo has to fear)
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 153-180 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 186-219 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric in Rain: 279-328 (99.2 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Ludicolo Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric in Rain: 202-238 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Obviously, there are a lot of things that can OHKO it, but Ludicolo can perform pretty well on a rain team. Outside of rain, it's not that good and may die before it can do anything, but I can see it getting at least SOME usage on a rain team now.
Mega Swampert seems like a fantastic Pokemon on a rain team. Obviously, rain teams will become more popular now. But there's one rain abuser that stands out to me, particularly because of it's ability to check Mega Swampert. This Pokemon is Ludicolo.
Ludicolo has x4 resistance to Waterfall, and x2 to Earthquake. This makes Ludicolo a great switch-in to either of Swampert's STABs. Ludicolo can also OHKO back with Giga Drain, and heal off at least 50% of the damage it took from Swampert's attacks. I think this set would be pretty good:
Ludicolo@Leftovers/ Life Orb
Swift Swim
148 HP/ 252 SpA/ 108 Spe or 204 HP/ 252 SpA/ 52 Spe
Modest
-Scald
-Giga Drain
-Ice Beam
-Hydro Pump/ Rain Dance/ something else
First set of EVs allow it to outspeed Mega Manectric under rain, while second spread allows it to outspeed Greninja under rain. Special Attack EVs are self explanatory. HP for more bulk. Here are some calcs against Swampert (and some other possible useful stuff):
252+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 388-460 (96 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)(that's as bulky as any Mega Swampert will go, most will probably run less HP)
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 134-158 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Swampert Superpower vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 214-252 (63.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (only thing Ludicolo has to fear)
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 153-180 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 186-219 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric in Rain: 279-328 (99.2 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Ludicolo Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric in Rain: 202-238 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Obviously, there are a lot of things that can OHKO it, but Ludicolo can perform pretty well on a rain team. Outside of rain, it's not that good and may die before it can do anything, but I can see it getting at least SOME usage on a rain team now.
- Status