Mega-Salamence: considering a quick ban (Don't ask for the thread to be closed!)

[Punchshroom]

My team consists of Sceptile, Gren, heatran, Thundurus, gliscor, and Gothitelle. Granted the last 2 have nothing to do with stopping mega mence but the other 4 can either phase it, stop it from coming in, or thunder wave it while still being useful in almost every other matchup. The other 2 are indeed setup fodder but every team has a member which is setup fodder for at least one sweeper. We have 20 pages of people saying that in general, mence can't be beaten without using weird crap but I'd like to think that my configuration consists of viable mons that not only beat every mence set but are also good against most of the field.

A team like that is certainly capable of fending off a Mega Mence sweep. The only noteworthy problem is that Mega Mence doesn't necessarily have to boost to still be able to blow large holes in your team; Draco Meteor MegaMence in particular can 2HKO your entire team , Gliscor included if Toxic Orb hadn't activated prior, plus Toxicing it would mean you won't get to Thunder Wave it if it does boost. It can start doing so against half of your team. That is yet another aspect of Mega Mence's brokeness; it doesn't even have to boost for it to put in work against any kind of team, a common misconception and sentiment that shared by many would-be anti-quickban users.

 

[Expert_Occultist]

A team like that is certainly capable of fending off a Mega Mence sweep. The only noteworthy problem is that Mega Mence doesn't necessarily have to boost to still be able to blow large holes in your team; Draco Meteor MegaMence in particular can 2HKO your entire team , Gliscor included if Toxic Orb hadn't activated prior, plus Toxicing it would mean you won't get to Thunder Wave it if it does boost. It can start doing so against half of your team. That is yet another aspect of Mega Mence's brokeness; it doesn't even have to boost for it to put in work against any kind of team, a common misconception and sentiment that shared by many would-be anti-quickban users.

If it's not boosting then it's not going to be faster than gren or sceptile. If it gets chased off by gren then my opponent is in other kinds of trouble. It also has to mega evolve before it outspeeds thundy. That said, I'm basically theorymoning because honestly, I've never seen a mence with draco meteor/hydro pump/wallbreaker stuff (seriously, I'm very curious about these usage stats lol). Lastly, heatran and spdef gliscor can take many meteors. This isn't a RMT though so I'll just end with my original point; you can build a team that handles mence variants and still performs well against the rest of the field. I'm having zero troubles against this thing. Probably just my opponents :P

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

If it's not boosting then it's not going to be faster than gren or sceptile. If it gets chased off by gren then my opponent is in other kinds of trouble. It also has to mega evolve before it outspeeds thundy. That said, I'm basically theorymoning because honestly, I've never seen a mence with draco meteor/hydro pump/wallbreaker stuff (seriously, I'm very curious about these usage stats lol). Lastly, heatran and spdef gliscor can take many meteors. This isn't a RMT though so I'll just end with my original point; you can build a team that handles mence variants and still performs well against the rest of the field. I'm having zero troubles against this thing. Probably just my opponents :P

I think you're missing the point of overcentralization. In Ubers, a tier considered overcentralized by its own members, you can build a team that handles Xerneas well and still perform well against the rest of the meta, yet even in Ubers it's considered broken. They don't care that it's broken, but they know it is. Just because you can build a team that handles a threat does not mean that the threat in question is not broken or overcentralizing. So, the question isn't "can I build a team that handles Mega Mence as well as the rest of the meta", the issue is "is everyone packing the same mons from a very small pool of mons because they're the only things that check the same threat without being terrible?" If the answer is yes, we have a problem.

Also, once again if a set is viable, which mix sets are, usage stats do not matter. In ladder play, if people only prep for non-mix sets because they don't see it often, Mence players just need to start running Mix sets. Also, just because a Mence player isn't using Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor Mence doesn't mean that none of their 5 other mons can kill a Rhyperior.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I've got to say, this has to be the most banworthy mon this entire generation. It has offensive capabilities comparable to M-Lucario, can tank hits like Groudon and Dialga, and has enough speed behind it to beat the Lati-twins in a race before even setting up. It hits like a train on both ends of the offensive spectrum even when unboosted, which coupled with its insanely diverse offensive movepool can easily give walls and offensive threats alike hell, physical or special. It certainly doesn't help that M-Mence has, like, 5 viable sets, making it borderline impossible to counter considering you probably won't know what set it's running until it's already through half your team and/or already at +1 and behind a Sub. As if that wasn't enough, priority moves don't even scratch it outside of Ice Shard (what with its 130 base Defense and all), making it damn near impossible to revenge kill unless you're running Scarf Greninja or something stupid like that. What's more, Mence has Intimidate before mega evolving, further increasing its sky-high (har-har) longetivity and letting it set up on >75% of the entire OU metagame. (Or, alternatively, you could go with Moxie just to accelerate the sweeping process.) On top of all this, Game Freak decided to give this spoiled mess of traits yet another toy to play with after it's mega evolved; Aerilate. We've all seen what M-Pinsir is capable of with this ability, and since M-Mence gets Double-Edge AND Hyper Voice to abuse Aerilate with... yeah, I think you know where I'm going with this. Sure, it doesn't have priority like M-Pinsir, but it also has 120 base speed and an effective boosting move on top of that.

All the gimmicky shit people are thinking up just to beat this thing once it's set up (Scarf Greninja, Scarf Noivern, other 120+ base speed mons that shouldn't be running Scarf in a balanced metagame) is a clear testament to just how unhealthy and polarizing this beast is. It's arguably the most over-centralizing mon since M-Kangaskhan, and looking at the aforementioned qualities, it's clear to see why so many people love 6-0ing teams left and right with it (and because there's hardly any effort at all in actually doing so). It simply can't be coincidence that the people who are willing to defend M-Mence are most often A.) the ones who use it without giving it a second's thought or B.) the ones who run the aforementioned 120+ base scarfers just to beat it.

TL;DR, quickban please. Suspect testing this thing would just delay the inevitable and waste everyone's time.

 

[Expert_Occultist]

I think you're missing the point of overcentralization. In Ubers, a tier considered overcentralized by its own members, you can build a team that handles Xerneas well and still perform well against the rest of the meta, yet even in Ubers it's considered broken. They don't care that it's broken, but they know it is. Just because you can build a team that handles a threat does not mean that the threat in question is not broken or overcentralizing. So, the question isn't "can I build a team that handles Mega Mence as well as the rest of the meta", the issue is "is everyone packing the same mons from a very small pool of mons because they're the only things that check the same threat without being terrible?" If the answer is yes, we have a problem.

Also, once again if a set is viable, which mix sets are, usage stats do not matter. In ladder play, if people only prep for non-mix sets because they don't see it often, Mence players just need to start running Mix sets. Also, just because a Mence player isn't using Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor Mence doesn't mean that none of their 5 other mons can kill a Rhyperior.

So it's getting banned for the same reasons Angislash got banned, gotcha. For the record, I think that this ban will result in a better meta for that reason. I'm just not convinced of its power in practice.

Edit: Also, for the record after the ban I will still be using my offensive core because it is awesome :)

 

[cuberandgamer]

I believe mega salamence should be quick banned because of its limited checks and counters, lots of bulk for easy set up, and very few ways to stop a sweep.

 

[Punchshroom]

If it's not boosting then it's not going to be faster than gren or sceptile. If it gets chased off by gren then my opponent is in other kinds of trouble. It also has to mega evolve before it outspeeds thundy. That said, I'm basically theorymoning because honestly, I've never seen a mence with draco meteor/hydro pump/wallbreaker stuff (seriously, I'm very curious about these usage stats lol). Lastly, heatran and spdef gliscor can take many meteors. This isn't a RMT though so I'll just end with my original point; you can build a team that handles mence variants and still performs well against the rest of the field. I'm having zero troubles against this thing. Probably just my opponents :P

You speak as if MegaMence has trouble Mega Evolving, which it never really does since it can easily do so against nearly any kind of physical Pokemon or weaker special attackers (such as your Gothitelle), or it can bluff its set and force your Heatran out with the threat of Earthquake when it is really a SubDD variant, but how can you know beforehand?

I didn't even go into the kind of conditions Mega Mence needs to sweep teams, and MegaMence tends to make short work of teams that don't overprepare for it (be it intentionally or unintentionally, in your case). Mega Mence is a devastating sweeper and wincon that can easily end games with extremely minimal support, and you say your team can handle all Mega Mence variants yet neglect to consider Mega Mence's own teammates which can be solely geared towards facilitating a Mega Mence sweep; the payoff is so great and consistent that these teammates can even run very obscure and generally ineffective sets that it won't matter. All a SubDD Mega Mence needs is your Heatran to be weakened or KOed by its very common trapping partners, Magnezone (or even Dugtrio), whereas 3 attacks Mega Mence merely needs Thundurus out of the way to easily sweep your team in one fell swoop. It takes extremely little effort for it to sweep compared to other setup sweepers, and it almost always has a way of snagging that boost by virtue of its bulk, typing, ability, offensive presence, etc..., which is what makes Mega Mence such a polarizing force.

 

[Berserking Now]

I believe mega salamence should be quick banned. It provides a unnatural strain when team building and is difficult to build a team to be viable and not be weak to it due to range of sets. It's speed tier forces teams to use stuff like scarf noivern and greninja to revenge kill it wasting their potential. These are some of the problems with it only looking at from a team building perspective and that is not even going into problems with it in actual matches. I would like to go on and on about how broken mega salamence is but I do not want to beat a dead horse.

 

[Sherkaner]

First post on these forums so hello to everyone :)

Admittedly I am a pretty casual player of this game and I've only been around since the start of XY but I have never seen anything as over powered and centralising as MegaMence. The prevalence of mons like Lando-T and Rotom-W (which admittedly are good irrespective of MegaMence) but also Mamoswine, Magnezone, Porygon2 and Weavile (more niche mons as far as I can tell) speak volumes. People can run 2-3 checks (counters don't exist) and still get blown apart because of the versatility of this mon. I've been using a pretty simple wall breaker set (Return, Earthquake, Fire Blast and Draco) and it works really well at the level I play.

It presents the same issue Mega Lucario did in that you don't know what set you are up against until it is possibly to late. You can choose what counters your own MegaMence and the opponent has very little way of knowing in advance. The SubDD set is justifiably popular because it can sweep a team with just 1 boost but there are countless other MegaMence sets that can work around what your team needs.

120 speed, 145/120 attack, 95/130/90 bulk with an excellent pre-mega and post-mega ability are insane. Factor in a move pool consisting of Return, Earthquake, Draco, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Hyper Voice, Dragon Dance, Roost, Substitute and Refresh and many others and you have a mon which is basically un-counterable.

With ORAS, we have been given access to a plethora of new megas but with MegaMence running around OU a good bulk of them simply unviable. The metagame at the end of XY was actually really fun. It was balanced and it felt like all play styles were viable. I'm not one to complain so I'm enjoying the new metagame as it is but there is no way around it, until MegaMence goes, the metagame will not be able to develop well as it will simply be over centralised around the most broken mon I've ever seen in OU.

Obviously this post is fairly inconsequential to MegaMence being banned and we all know it will be, but just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents while this thread is still open.

 

[Expert_Occultist]

You speak as if MegaMence has trouble Mega Evolving, which it never really does since it can easily do so against nearly any kind of physical Pokemon or weaker special attackers (such as your Gothitelle), or it can bluff its set and force your Heatran out with the threat of Earthquake when it is really a SubDD variant, but how can you know beforehand?

I didn't even go into the kind of conditions Mega Mence needs to sweep teams, and MegaMence tends to make short work of teams that don't overprepare for it (be it intentionally or unintentionally, in your case). Mega Mence is a devastating sweeper and wincon that can easily endgames teams with extremely minimal support, and you say your team can handle all Mega Mence variants yet neglect to consider Mega Mence's own teammates which can be solely geared towards facilitating a Mega Mence sweep; the payoff is so great and consistent that these teammates can even run very obscure and generally ineffective sets that it won't matter. All a SubDD Mega Mence needs is your Heatran to be weakened or KOed by its very common trapping partners, Magnezone (or even Dugtrio), whereas 3 attacks Mega Mence merely needs Thundurus out of the way to easily sweep your team in one fell swoop. It takes extremely little effort for it to sweep compared to other setup sweepers, and it almost always has a way of snagging that boost by virtue of its bulk, typing, ability, offensive presence, etc..., which is what makes Mega Mence such a polarizing force.

"Take away everything that checks it and it can easily win the game." The same can be said about Charizrd X and mega Gyrados and they don't need 5 sets to do it

 

[Ze Diglett]

"Take away everything that checks it and it can easily win the game." The same can be said about Charizrd X and mega Gyrados and they don't need 5 sets to do it

The difference between Zard X and M-Mence is that Zard X actually has a good number of checks and counters to be removed, such as Quagsire, Rotom-W, Mega Swampert, Landorus-T, Hippowdown, (Mega) T-Tar, (Mega) Slowbro, Mega Gyarados, and more depending on what set it's running that require more team support and effort to actually remove in the first place, whereas M-Mence has very few selective and situational checks and counters (scratch that, there are no counters to this thing) that can easily be removed via minimal team support and effort.

 

[Punchshroom]

"Take away everything that checks it and it can easily win the game." The same can be said about Charizrd X and mega Gyrados and they don't need 5 sets to do it

The difference is the amount of things that stop Mega Mence, and how easy the things are to lure and remove. The fact that most teams don't carry more than one counter to a specific Mega Mence set on their team, and the fact that most of said counters don't have reliable recovery, means that preparing the right conditions for a MegaMence sweep is MUCH EASIER (in case you didn't notice it this time, as you didn't in the last post) than pretty much any other setup sweeper in the tier.

Yeah, "take away everything that checks it and it easily wins the game", and in the case of MegaMence it usually needs like only one thing removed, two at the very worst, which is a much easier criteria to fill than MegaZard X and MegaGyara. For the record, MegaMence only really has two sets, and it doesn't matter 'how many' sets it takes for one to sweep as long as it is extremely easy to do so with each one, which only adds to MegaMence's brokenness as the opponent won't know which is which beforehand, and may even end up saving the wrong counter.

 

[Vileman]

The problem with mega mence and what sets him appart from your standard hard hitting mon its the fact that it doent lacks anything: it has solid bulk, amazing speed and a really good attack stat which is complemented by his great movepool. Also, it centralizes so much but there isnt much to handle it so everyone its running stuff like zapdos which wasnt common at all before mega mence, and even so mega mence can get past these supposed-to-be checks with the appropiate moves, not even with much support. Its not revenge killable due to his 120 base speed which means that at +1 no common scarfer (and idk if stuff like scarf aerodactyl is viable at all lol) will be revenge killing him, and because of his solid bulk and reliable recovery in the form of roost, you cant wear him down with priority moves not called ice shard, you can just spend some evs on his bulk over his attack and he will still be 2hkoing more than half of the meta and tanking bullet punches/extremespeed/ etc.
I believe that his solid stats, amazing movepool and opportunity cost (if youre not using mega mence youre basically at insta disadvantage) make his unhealthy for the metagame, i truly think its flat out broken and he needs to go in order for the metagame to be more diverse and not be a meta in which whoever sets up properly first with mence wins.
Quickban pls
(Sorry if i repeated previously stated ideas :x tried my best to say what i think about megamence.)

 

[Shounen]

Super-late, but I'm one for a suspect test. I'd rather not have to retest Mence if we find that it wasn't as detrimental as we once believed. Mence is one of the best counters to a lot of pokemon taht would reign crazy everywhere, I'm not saying Mence isn't broken, but I'd much rather see how banning Mega-Mence affects the meta than just leave it be before it's given a fair trial.

Tl;Dr: Rather be safe than sorry, suspect test Mence.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Super-late, but I'm one for a suspect test. I'd rather not have to retest Mence if we find that it wasn't as detrimental as we once believed. Mence is one of the best counters to a lot of pokemon taht would reign crazy everywhere, I'm not saying Mence isn't broken, but I'd much rather see how banning Mega-Mence affects the meta than just leave it be before it's given a fair trial.

Tl;Dr: Rather be safe than sorry, suspect test Mence.

Ask Aegislash, we don't keep things the community dubs broken just because they check pokes that might otherwise be broken.

Plus, there's a zero percent chance we'll retest this monster, at least not without a couple generations worth of power creep

 

[FinalLegendZero]

Super-late, but I'm one for a suspect test. I'd rather not have to retest Mence if we find that it wasn't as detrimental as we once believed. Mence is one of the best counters to a lot of pokemon taht would reign crazy everywhere, I'm not saying Mence isn't broken, but I'd much rather see how banning Mega-Mence affects the meta than just leave it be before it's given a fair trial.

Tl;Dr: Rather be safe than sorry, suspect test Mence.

1. We've had the ORAS ladder for a month. We know that it is as detrimental to the metagame as is being stated here.

2. We don't keep a broken pokemon to check/counter another broken pokemon; we ban them both.

Anything else I could say has already been repeated here ad nauseum. Quickban this broken P.O.S.

 

[Kurona]

You know... all these teams coming up saying they can 'handle' Megamence, I have to say, would they probably also be able to handle Base Form Rayquaza? Seems an awful lot like it.

 

[Apophis]

I'm for an early suspect. People keep comparing mence to lucario/aegi, and both of those got suspects. Lets face it, it's not the strongest thing in OU. M-Pinsir outdamages it from the start, and with swords dance it gets stronger faster. Admittedly it's typing and movepool are both better than pinsirs, and it has more speed (+DD), and decent SpAtk (for a mega) allowing it to play a bigger variety of roles than most birdspammers.
It also has few checks/counters, though they are there. It forces a lot of switches and can gain quick momentum from these, often deciding the game if it's allowed to this enough, especially since it's decent bulk allows it to switch in and out without getting crippled.
Most of these qualities can be found on other birspammers/megas, but mence just pushes it a little bit too far.
On the other hand, I honestly I feel as though the ORAS ladder doesn't reflect how the meta will shape out. It's full over people being over prepared for mence, without even trying to play around it with a proper team. I often see people with an ice shard user and a gimmicky scarfer, or another ice sharder on the same team, just to "counter" mence. Just like any other mon, mence can be played around, and isn't as immediately over powering or broken as lucario/gengar. It sorely misses SD and priority (yes it's a big deal, just imagine what this thing would be like with quick attack, or god forbid, ESpeed), and just isn't quite a nuke.

Ultimately, though I don't think mence quite as broken as mons like skymin/gar/khan have been in the past, I think that mence is overall going to be over-centralizing, especially with it's brothers in birdspam to back it up. But I feel we need time to make sure, time well spent without gimmicky checks on every team. Definitely unhealthy for the meta, but it doesn't deserve the bandwagon bitching that's all over this thread.
Early Suspect

EDIT: Also, can we stop comparing this to Base-Rayquaza? Ray can hold an item, has better offenses on both ends, and has a way better movepool. That's almost like saying Phione is the equal to Manaphy.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Can we stop with calling it bandwagonning/Circle Jerk/whatever the hell else? It isn't. It's justified, I don't think Menace should be QB'd because (insert smogonite) thinks it should be QB'd. I think it should be QB'd because it is unbelievably broken, and thus creates an incredibly unhealthy meta.
I've said this before, everyone, minus a couple, know it's borked, yet some want the suspect, despite knowing what the outcome will unanimously be. Why waste time on that, when there are other matters at hand? If we already know it's going to get booted, suspect or not, why even suspect it? It's a waste of time.

 

[ginganinja]

I just want to point out that (yet again), there is no point arguing against a quickban if you think Mega Mence would be banned in a suspect test...its really only delaying the metagame for another month or so which is a waste of everyones time. Therefore, you cannot really call it "over centralising", or "unhealthy for the metagame", and then say, "but I don't think it should be quickbanned", because its legitimately hitting the benchmarks for a ban. I'll grant you that if there is an element of doubt as to whether Mega Mence is broken, then you can firmly say a suspect test is valid, but outside of this, you really cannot go around mentioning how unhealthy/broken it is, and turn around and say it doesn't deserve to be quickbanned.

 

[Apophis]

Can we stop with calling it bandwagonning/Circle Jerk/whatever the hell else? It isn't. It's justified, I don't think Menace should be QB'd because (insert smogonite) thinks it should be QB'd. I think it should be QB'd because it is unbelievably broken, and thus creates an incredibly unhealthy meta.
I've said this before, everyone, minus a couple, know it's borked, yet want the suspect, despite knowing what the outcome will unanimously be. Why waste time on that, when there are other matters at hand? If we already know it's going to get booted, suspect or not, why even suspect it? It's a waste of time.

It's an undeniable part of human nature that they will over-emphasize anything that they have support in, as well as it's a fact that others will rebel simply to rebel, or be biased because of some emotion towards something.

But that's true that it would probably be a waste of time. That slipped my mind

 

[SilverPT]

People keep comparing mence to lucario/aegi, and both of those got suspects.
(...)
Just like any other mon, mence can be played around, and isn't as immediately over powering or broken as lucario/gengar.

Hmm, k...

Lets face it, it's not the strongest thing in OU. M-Pinsir outdamages it from the start, and with swords dance it gets stronger faster.

Sure, Mega Pinsir has more base Atk + equal Aerilate boost. But what does that have to do with Mega Salamence? Mega Pinsir has less bulk that Mega Salamence, doesn't have Intimidate and is much weaker to SR.

It also has few checks/counters, though they are there.

There is NO universal check/counter to Mega Salamence. That beast has so many movepool options that you don't know the set until he kills one or two of your mons (usually your "check/counter" ends up being in one of those kills or severely crippled).

On the other hand, I honestly I feel as though the ORAS ladder doesn't reflect how the meta will shape out. It's full over people being over prepared for mence, without even trying to play around it with a proper team. I often see people with an ice shard user and a gimmicky scarfer, or another ice sharder on the same team, just to "counter" mence. Just like any other mon, mence can be played around (...)

Wth... the ladder is full of people over prepared because Mega Mence IS actually a threatening mon. The problem with Mega Mence is that you can finds plenty of setup chances thanks to Intimidate with minimum effort. Yes, it can be played around. Just like Arceus, Xerneas and all the ubers up there. And at the end you end up losing half of your team because you switched around trying to learn which set he had.

But I feel we need time to make sure, time well spent without gimmicky checks on every team. Definitely unhealthy for the meta, but it doesn't deserve the bandwagon bitching that's all over this thread.

One month of ORAS metagame isn't enough?

EDIT: Also, can we stop comparing this to Base-Rayquaza? Ray can hold an item, has better offenses on both ends, and has a way better movepool. That's almost like saying Phione is the equal to Manaphy.

Mega Quaza > Mega Mence > Base-Quaza. Base-Quaza is less bulky, doesn't have Intimidate to back up Def and has less speed (which is actually important when you realize the base speed in Ubers). Poor comparison imo.

 

[TheKingKarp]

WHY ISN'T THIS THING BANNED YET!
why is there still a discussion?
Ok now let's get into the logic of why Mence is broken.
First of all lets just look at the stats people: 95/145/130/120/90/120
Stats wise this has the Attack stat of Mega Frickin Lucario. Just 1 point less than Ferrothorn in defense. It's special attack is 10 BP's more than Latias, it has the SpDef of Clefable, and one of the most godly speed tiers to ever be blessed upon a pokemon. Now I know just plain stats are not something that should make it banworthy after all Kyurem-B has amazing stats but isn't top tier.
Now lets talk about the ability. Pre and post evolution. Intimidate is godsend allowing it to have an easier set up against physically attacking mons, coupled with that beautiful defense stat Mega Salamence has an amazing physical defense. Now let's talk about Aerilate. If you thought Pinsir was bad welcome to Mence world. Aerilate was icing on the cake for this thing. Making Return a 200+ base power move with no draw backs coming off of an 145 attack stat. Aerilate makes every normal move flying and since nothing is immune to flying Mega Mence can run a very powerful mono-attacking set.
Another thing that i find very broken about mence is its versitality. Sure just because it has alot of sets doesnt make it broken, but having many different good sets each with specific "checks and counters" makes this thing broken because you have to play around all of the possibilities and before you know it you lost a pokemon you needed or mega mence just 6-0'd you lol.
Let's just name of the sets for fun.
Sub DD roost
Sub DD
DD roost 2 Attacks
DD 3 attacks
Special
3 attacks plus draco
DD +2 attacks and Fire Blast or Hydro Pump
Refresh + Wish (Uncommon but still viable on stall)

Now I know this post isn't the most professional nor the best arguments, but honestly I have no frickin idea what smogon is doing letting this thing stay in OU, its on par with Mega Gengar imo and is better than MegaMom (from what I remember) whatever the case is please quickban this god.

Thanks for reading, no hate pls

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[byee]

I would personally like to see MegaMence go. It is incredibly unhealthy for the metagame and as long as it stays OU will stay stagnant and the metagame won't be able to evolve. It is just as over centralizing as Xerneas was during X and Y, which should never happen in OU. That monster makes me not want to play OU since my teams have to have 2-3 checks for it and overall makes the game less fun, which is why we play. So the quicker it's banned the better in my opinion. Quick ban it.

 

[heritage]

Alright, this'll be a really short post but:

Do you know how bulky Ferrothorn is and how annoying it is if you're trying to kill it with a Physical hit? Well Salamence is worse than that.
I just want to say that even when un-invested, Salamence's defenses are the best out of ANY sweeper, and it actually has more defense than some of the physical walls in OU.
This thing can run any set efficiently. It's got an awesome support move pool with things like Wish and Defog, as well has having reliable recovery and a way to remove status. This thing does Wish passing just as good as Sylveon, since it can get rid of hazards, unlike Sylveon.

There isn't a single set that Salamence can't work with. It's so over centralizing, that, honestly, whenever I see it in team preview, I just quit because I know how annoying it will be.

Any arguments against quick banning it are null. Seriously, there is no point arguing it.
Quick ban. Please.