Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[Norne]

I still find CharX to be superior to Mgross. For typing and sheer destructive power, accept no substitutes.
Main difference is that Mgross can run a fully offensive set where charX basically has to run a support move. Agility builds aren't even that common anymore, are they?

Well I use that very set with thunder punch as my coverage option to be specific.

And yep not getting burned and the ability to have flexible ev spreads really make char X a great pole position mega, however in a team that doesn't rely to much on volturners I found bulky agility Megagross to do wonders.

And yes I'm amazed at the amount of empoleon on the ladder at the moment.

 

[Karxrida]

You are seriously bringing up Slaking and Regigigas? Is that a joke?

Also the LO Boost is relevant, in fact it is the point of my post, considering its stats, it is the ability that pushes him over the edge. And a lot of people mentioned it, too. The BST was never the main reason something was to good, as proven by Kyurem Black in Gen 5

I am just midly amused that people gets this late in ban mood for it

In case you couldn't tell by the tone of my post, it was partially a joke, but my point still stands that BST isn't enough to make something broken even with a LO (but sure as hell helps), as you stated yourself with Kyurem-B. Metagross happens to have has some significant flaws that prevent it from being broken.

• Legitimate 4MSS, as it needs to run both STABs and Agility sets have to drop important coverage to clean lategame. Ice Punch hits exactly one thing (Lando-T), and said thing is still checking you with Scarf Earthquake and cripples you regardless of you killing it. The choice between Hammer Arm and Earthquake is the most notable, since they overlap enough where you can't run both but you want both for specific targets.
  
• Speed tier is good but now inflated by other threats like Mega Diancie that can beat or severely cripple you if you lose the speed tie. Bullet Punch alleviates this for some of them this but makes the 4MSS even worse since either you're now running 3 STABs + 1 coverage move or give up Meteor Mash. Scarfers can still catch you off guard since you're not THAT fast.
  
• Speed before Mega is mediocre and can prevent you from Mega Evolving safely against more aggressive team or stop you from beating things you're supposed to be checking, like Timid Offensive Heatran.
  
• Prankster T-Wave gives you trouble since you need the speed. Bullet Punch again helps somewhat but stuff like Specs Keldeo can easily revenge you regardless.
  
• Type is good defensively but everything you're weak to is super-common on every team ever, and some of the things you're supposed to check/counter like Clefable or Celebi can easily fuck you over with a Fire Blast or Earth Power.

There's no denying that despite all of these points, Mega Metagross is extremely good. It probably does deserve a suspect, but right now I don't see it being broken.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

In case you couldn't tell by the tone of my post, it was partially a joke, but my point still stands that BST isn't enough to make something broken even with a LO (but sure as hell helps), as you stated yourself with Kyurem-B. Metagross happens to have has some significant flaws that prevent it from being broken.

• Legitimate 4MSS, as it needs to run both STABs and Agility sets have to drop important coverage to clean lategame. Ice Punch hits exactly one thing (Lando-T), and said thing is still checking you with Scarf Earthquake and cripples you regardless of you killing it. The choice between Hammer Arm and Earthquake is the most notable, since they overlap enough where you can't run both but you want both for specific targets.
  
• Speed tier is good but now inflated by other threats like Mega Diancie that can beat or severely cripple you if you lose the speed tie. Bullet Punch alleviates this for some of them this but makes the 4MSS even worse since either you're now running 3 STABs + 1 coverage move or give up Meteor Mash. Scarfers can still catch you off guard since you're not THAT fast.
  
• Speed before Mega is mediocre and can prevent you from Mega Evolving safely against more aggressive team or stop you from beating things you're supposed to be checking, like Timid Offensive Heatran.
  
• Prankster T-Wave gives you trouble since you need the speed. Bullet Punch again helps somewhat but stuff like Specs Keldeo can easily revenge you regardless.
  
• Type is good defensively but everything you're weak to is super-common on every team ever, and some of the things you're supposed to check/counter like Clefable or Celebi can easily fuck you over with a Fire Blast or Earth Power.

There's no denying that despite all of these points, Mega Metagross is extremely good. It probably does deserve a suspect, but right now I don't see it being broken.

Some of that is just false.
Agility is hardly needed to clean with base 110 speed. Ice punch also hits glicor, garchomp dragonite which it can't ohko.4MSS hardly... You beat 90% of the meta with just Zen, Meteor, Hammer and ice punch. Its literally just like ninja where you get to pick and chose what you beat.

Diancie and Lati@s sometimes run hp fire letting you outspeed. Also Diancie also runs modest rock polish also letting you outspeed. In addition neither can ohko you. Only other 110 mons are gengar and Gallade.

Pre mega speed is an issue, but a minor one.
Prankster t-wave is only on 2 mons who don't even always run it.
What you need prediction or a safeswitch in? You have to watch out for coverage moves? What is this blasphemy? Aegis was also weak to those things but was also banned.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Some of that is just false.
Agility is hardly needed to clean with base 110 speed. Ice punch also hits glicor, garchomp dragonite which it can't ohko.4MSS hardly... You beat 90% of the meta with just Zen, Meteor, Hammer and ice punch. Its literally just like ninja where you get to pick and chose what you beat.

This is where the 4MSS comes in actually, is that 10% that it can't beat, because if it could have a 5th slot, Grass knot would round it off. It instead has to deal with the fact that (common might I add) Pokemon hard wall it with that set. No matter what moves it has, they will never be able to perfectly cover every Problem Pokemon in the metagame, however, if it could have a 5th move, that problem wouldn't exist.

 

[Karxrida]

Some of that is just false.
Agility is hardly needed to clean with base 110 speed.

Every Scarfer outspeeds, the most common of which is also one of your biggest checks. The entire point of Agility is to beat stuff faster than you and not get killed by Scarfers.

Ice punch also hits glicor, garchomp dragonite which it can't ohko.4MSS hardly... You beat 90% of the meta with just Zen, Meteor, Hammer and ice punch. Its literally just like ninja where you get to pick and chose what you beat.

Ice Punch is only necessary for Lando-T, which is what I meant to say. You can just smack the others with Meteor Mash as they switch in and you're golden (watch out for Scarf Garchomp).

Diancie and Lati@s sometimes run hp fire letting you outspeed. Also Diancie also runs modest rock polish also letting you outspeed. In addition neither can ohko you. Only other 110 mons are gengar and Gallade.

Latios and Diancie don't always run it though, and you won't know until it's revealed. I also mentioned that they can kill or cripple (you might have missed that since I edited it in later), the latter of which Diancie will do with Earth Power (70% minimum) and Gengar and Gallade sure as hell will do with STAB.

Pre mega speed is an issue, but a minor one.

It's an issue against offense since any prior damage will guarantee Bisharp or Scarfers can revenge you.

Prankster t-wave is only on 2 mons who don't even always run it.

They exist, which is enough reason not to stay in on either. T-Wave is also one of the main reasons to use Thundurus anyway.

What you need prediction or a safeswitch in? You have to watch out for coverage moves? What is this blasphemy? Aegis was also weak to those things but was also banned.

4 SpA Clefable Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 140-166 (46.5 - 55.1%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO
Because that totally isn't enough to give a shit ton of things the ability to revenge you or stop you from checking it again, and don't tell me Fire Blast isn't viable when it hits Scizor and Ferrothorn. On an unrelated note, the Aegislash ban was stupid anyway and an extremely close vote to boot.

 

[yoloburn]

Megagross hits everything it wants to hit hard. It hardly has 4MSS. It is versatile enough where it can pick what to hit super effectively, but that doesn't mean it has 4MSS. Meteor Mash, Zen Headbutt, Hammer Arm, and Grass Knot is all it needs.

 

[Firebird101]

I feel many people are just freaking out because we haven't completely adjusted to the new top megas. Similar in XY when Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X, Landorus and Thundurus ran rampage but honestly, if we could adjust to those beasts I think Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye are certainly manageable without having to resort to more gimmicky options.

Actually I think this is something we should discuss more as while most of us agreed in the Greninja suspect test is while the ninja made so many balance teambuilds almost non-viable and was practically impossible to play around successfully all the time it cannot be said the same for Mega Metagross or Mega Sableye as their qualities do not completely overshadows their flaws and are not as centralizing as Greninja. Of course by banning all the top dogs we could have a more variety but that goes for all S and A+ mons as removing them would allow us to build a team without considering just slapping the super glue called Lando-T on it. There is a arbitrary line somewhere that we can agree that separates a healthy pokemon and a unhealthy one, most of us don't agree where exactly we should draw that line but I think we should at least give Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye more time before we decide to suspect test them. Cuz again, if we could somehow avoid suspect testing Thundy and his first-class trolling I don't see how we can't adjust to these two.

 

[Norne]

I feel many people are just freaking out because we haven't completely adjusted to the new top megas. Similar in XY when Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X, Landorus and Thundurus ran rampage but honestly, if we could adjust to those beasts I think Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye are certainly manageable without having to resort to more gimmicky options.

Actually I think this is something we should discuss more as while most of us agreed in the Greninja suspect test is while the ninja made so many balance teambuilds almost non-viable and was practically impossible to play around successfully all the time it cannot be said the same for Mega Metagross or Mega Sableye as their qualities do not completely overshadows their flaws and are not as centralizing as Greninja. Of course by banning all the top dogs we could have a more variety but that goes for all S and A+ mons as removing them would allow us to build a team without considering just slapping the super glue called Lando-T on it. There is a arbitrary line somewhere that we can agree that separates a healthy pokemon and a unhealthy one, most of us don't agree where exactly we should draw that line but I think we should at least give Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye more time before we decide to suspect test them. Cuz again, if we could somehow avoid suspect testing Thundy and his first-class trolling I don't see how we can't adjust to these two.

I have to agree here, Metagross has great reactive typing (Mega Stone helps against knock off) but it does have its shortcomings, I mean this thing actually has a 4MSS, I do admit he has a relatively easy time becoming a winning condition and has some switch in opportunities post mega(Premega Offensive spreads are not that bulky to be honest) , but the fact is that unlike previous threats he seems to have its fair share of checks that don't need to run obscure spreads to shut it down nor centralize team building. Also it's mega status does come with an opportunity cost evidenced by key members of Metagross based teams.

I mean if it comes to worse suspect test is always an option, but at this state of the meta I can't call him overcentralizing, a top threat you want to check?, definitely. But one you devote or sacrifice a full core to check? nope.

 

[AM]

I feel many people are just freaking out because we haven't completely adjusted to the new top megas. Similar in XY when Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X, Landorus and Thundurus ran rampage but honestly, if we could adjust to those beasts I think Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye are certainly manageable without having to resort to more gimmicky options.

Actually I think this is something we should discuss more as while most of us agreed in the Greninja suspect test is while the ninja made so many balance teambuilds almost non-viable and was practically impossible to play around successfully all the time it cannot be said the same for Mega Metagross or Mega Sableye as their qualities do not completely overshadows their flaws and are not as centralizing as Greninja. Of course by banning all the top dogs we could have a more variety but that goes for all S and A+ mons as removing them would allow us to build a team without considering just slapping the super glue called Lando-T on it. There is a arbitrary line somewhere that we can agree that separates a healthy pokemon and a unhealthy one, most of us don't agree where exactly we should draw that line but I think we should at least give Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye more time before we decide to suspect test them. Cuz again, if we could somehow avoid suspect testing Thundy and his first-class trolling I don't see how we can't adjust to these two.

I don't have a real opinion on anything else you mentioned but the Thundurus aspect came about due to the nature of how the meta-game developed in a less than favorable way for Thundurus in the fact that Prankster TWave didn't have such a profound effect on teams late XY and now as opposed to when it was at his prime. You're also talking about something that doesn't have the defensive utility from a base stat or support move standpoint that these other two have, M-Gross and M-Sableye that is. Its lack of any real defensive synergy is the big downfall where its main focus becomes one solely on offense with an aspect, Prankster T-Wave, that becomes more and more less appreciated and useful as a meta puts emphasis on bulkier builds that aren't too concerned with this.

 

[HardlySaucy]

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These scarfers which can easily outspeed cannot actually KO Metagross even with absolute max rolls. I shouldn't have to say that Ice Punch KOs either of them, and it's the best coverage to run IMO considering it does hit these 'checks' so hard. Even if it goes down to Garchomp's Rough Skin, if it's worth trading off you would do it, if it isn't worth it, don't do it. It's weaker in special defense?

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 240-284 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 122-144 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

ScarfTran OHKOs with Overheat. It's just about the only reliable revenge killer that can be guaranteed to outspeed and OHKO, other than Greninja which is more than likely banned. So unless you're willing to lose one to two Pokemon, one to get a safe switch into a Scarfer and another to get significant damage off, you have to run uncommon sets deliberately to stop it. It's not terrible overcentralisation like Greninja bringing Tentacruel and Empoleon up, but it's still overcentralisation.

EDIT: Changed the calc with a positive SpDef nature. My mistake.

 

[Karxrida]

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These scarfers which can easily outspeed cannot actually KO Metagross even with absolute max rolls. I shouldn't have to say that Ice Punch KOs either of them, and it's the best coverage to run IMO considering it does hit these 'checks' so hard. Even if it goes down to Garchomp's Rough Skin, if it's worth trading off you would do it, if it isn't worth it, don't do it. It's weaker in special defense?

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 240-284 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 122-144 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

ScarfTran OHKOs with Overheat. It's just about the only reliable revenge killer that can be guaranteed to outspeed and OHKO, other than Greninja which is more than likely banned. So unless you're willing to lose one to two Pokemon, one to get a safe switch into a Scarfer and another to get significant damage off, you have to run uncommon sets deliberately to stop it. It's not terrible overcentralisation like Greninja bringing Tentacruel and Empoleon up, but it's still overcentralisation.

EDIT: Changed the calc with a positive SpDef nature. My mistake.

First of all, the only way to outspeed those Scarfers is faster Scarfers or being at +2 with Metagross, and that means dropping coverage and not having max Speed since you want bulk.

Secondly, the amount of prior damage for them to OHKO is not unreasonable (it's not like you need it to be at half or something ludicrous), and Lando-T has a chance to OHKO with just Rocks up.

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Thirdly, none of these sets are even niche/uncommon bar Scarf Gengar; Scarf is easily the most common Lando-T set and Intimidate means you've neutered Metagross even if you fail to OHKO it. Other non-niche answers that aren't Scarfers include Bisharp (use this more because it's amazing), Mega Manectric, Raikou with Shadow Ball, Thundurus, Rotom-W, (Mega) Sableye, (Mega) Slowbro, (Mega) Gyarados, Talonflame, Jirachi, Mega Houndoom, and Mega Beedrill. Some of these are only checks and may lose to specific variant, but like with Aegislash it's not hard to stack them together and you might do it without even trying (see: the several cores with Bisharp in XY, one of which had 3 Aegislash checks and was still pretty legit without Aegislash around).

 

[56k]

I don't see any reason why lando can't be Adamant scarf. There's certainly many speed targets to pick but it actually only takes 96 speed EVs to be faster than base 115s and the rest EVs and nature can go into bulk and offenses. There's no greninja to be faster than and I don't see stuff like manetrics around very much at all.

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 272-324 (90.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 272-324 (90.3 - 107.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[ThePack]

I don't see any reason why lando can't be Adamant scarf. There's certainly many speed targets to pick but it actually only takes 96 speed EVs to be faster than base 115s and the rest EVs and nature can go into bulk and offenses. There's no greninja to be faster than and I don't see stuff like manetrics around very much at all.

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 272-324 (90.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 272-324 (90.3 - 107.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The main reason I run Jolly Lando-T's are still to outspeed Scarf-Drill and Adamant Mega Zard-X at +1 Speed to KO them both with EQ.

 

[56k]

Those are definitely noteworthy threats :/

 

[zbr]

Just gonna throw in my thoughts on how the meta looks like now that Gren got the boot in the suspect ladder:

First off, fairies have become even more prominent than before. Even though we have the introduction of MMeta (who utilises fairies as majority of it's switch ins), we see a much needed increase in the number of fairies being used. Of these fairies, Specs Sylveon is one of those underrated monsters that are coming back to haunt us. Now, with one of the biggest threats to fairies being removed, this means that you now have greater accessibility to fairies in general and this makes dealing with M-Sab stall teams less taxing as slapping a Fairy on your team is a relatively easy to do thing (HO have access to Specs Sylv, AV/CB Azu and Balance have access to Clef, etc). However, because of this trend, Stall teams have been packing more than one Fairy Check and Tenta is one major fairy check to look out for. M-Sab/Tenta teams abuse this rise in fairies, allowing them to become much more effective in the post Gren Meta. (Also bringing about with them the return of TSpike stall)

Next, LKT seems to have been reincarnated in the form of MKT (with M representing Mega Metagross and T for Trapper). This is extremely scary as MMeta is basically a super powered Land I (sporting a more desirable ability, speed tier and most importantly being given access to LandT) and is even more versatile than it's predecessor. MKT cores are extremely effective for exactly the same reasons as to why LKT were popular. They are offensive, they apply insane pressure to the opponent (Lati can no longer come in on Keld and stay in to check for fear of trap and Scarf Keld can destroy Scarf LandT albeit at the cost of the deliciousness of SubCM atm) and most importantly, they are easy to use. (i.e, Keld lures in Clef to check, 4 attacks MMeta has the option to switch in since Flamethrower is not a 2HKO and Fire Blast is a 65.2% chance to ohko; Agiligross has an even easier time switching in and only has to worry about stray hax burns or the aids twave) This makes it easy to build teams surrounding this core and winning as all they really need to do is apply enough offensive pressure (which is much more easier to do with this core) to teams by deteriorating/breaking checks to MK and then just flat out destroy the opponent.

Overall, the meta without Gren hasn't really changed much except that M-Sab is slightly easier to handle due to the rise in fairies and that MKT core itself is potentially what will break MMeta just like it did to Land I. It's still a pretty interesting metagame at the moment, it's just that it seems the impact of Gren's pseudo ban on the ladder isn't as impactful as something like Aegislash's ban, which really overhauled the metagame.

 

[Mix]

I still find CharX to be superior to Mgross. For typing and sheer destructive power, accept no substitutes.
Main difference is that Mgross can run a fully offensive set where charX basically has to run a support move. Agility builds aren't even that common anymore, are they?

Mega-metagross is better than Mega-Charizard-X in this meta, in this meta much players uses spikes+stealth rock and both are dangerous for charizard, charizard-x is completely walled by mega-altaria, and can be a setup field for it; the only set can beat mega-altaria is dragon dance + flare blitz + dclaw + iron tail

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Iron Tail
- Dragon Dance

but why use this, when mega-metagross is faster, can trap latwins with pursuit, beat clefable, diancie, mega altaria& stuff if u want metagross can has a priority (bullet punch) and can fuck rock polish diancie, zen headbutt beat keldeo and (also i haven't see it) terrakion.

 

[Prinz]

I guess that you are right on the fact that Metagross is more viability than Charizard-X, but don't act like it's bad or anything. I think that Charizard is still a cool mon to use, it has an huge weakness to Stealth Rock and stuff but it's still a powerful wallbreaker / DD sweepers. It beats Clefable, Heatran (if EQ), SABLEYE and it isn't easy to revenge-kill as many people could think, Landorus-T exists yeh, but you can't switch into Flare Blitz and you can always run Jolly Charizard-X if you hate Landorus-T too much. Also only defensive variants of Mega Altaria can switch safety on Charizard-X as offensive ones takes too much from Flare Blitz, but they aren't really common because people prefer to run Sableye or Slowbro in their Stall teams. Metagross is a better mon overall, but I don't think Charizard-X is as bad as people think.

 

[master_marshmallow]

Mega-metagross is better than Mega-Charizard-X in this meta, in this meta much players uses spikes+stealth rock and both are dangerous for charizard, charizard-x is completely walled by mega-altaria, and can be a setup field for it; the only set can beat mega-altaria is dragon dance + flare blitz + dclaw + iron tail

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Iron Tail
- Dragon Dance

but why use this, when mega-metagross is faster, can trap latwins with pursuit, beat clefable, diancie, mega altaria& stuff if u want metagross can has a priority (bullet punch) and can fuck rock polish diancie, zen headbutt beat keldeo and (also i haven't see it) terrakion.

EVs are off, but it's not an unviable set. Iron Tail has a lot of power behind it, and rock types are common switch ins for charX. It smashes Diancie also.

 

[Kurona]

Iron Tail is way too situational for a main set imo; very inaccurate and hits very specific targets your other team-mates should be dealing with anyway. I'd rather run Roost for longetivity or even Earthquake for better general coverage.

 

[heritage]

+1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 330-390 (136.9 - 161.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah no. Iron Tail is awful. Other than Diancie, Flare Blitz or Earthquake hits everything it needs to harder and is more reliable.

 

[Kingler]

There's really no comparison to be made between Mega Metagross and Mega Charizard X. They have different sets of counters (aside from general soft checks like Lando-T) and actually Mega Metagross really smashes Unaware Clefable and most Rock-types in general, the checks/counters to Char-X. Mega Charizard X is a boosting sweeper that is also bulky and can check a bunch of threats with a Will-O-Wisp set, while Mega Metagross is a fast wallbreaker that punches holes in teams and really destroys a lot of mons with its near-perfect coverage and sufficiently vast movepool. While you could use Agility MegaGross, they still are sufficiently different and fit onto different kinds of teams, having their own pros and cons.

Also, Iron Tail is bad; you shouldn't be using Mega Charizard X to try to beat Mega Altaria and 75% accuracy just isn't reliable enough especially when you're risking a miss against a sweeper late-game. You're better off running a bulky WoW set if you really want to beat Mega Altaria (after it Mega Evolves) and Azumarill (though Earthquake hits it anyway).

 

[megacrazyhand]

Personally, the problems I've had with Mega Sableye are all things I blame Mega Metagross for. For one, Mega Sableye can act as a way to check Mega Metagross and on the turn it mega evolves can pull off a Prankster Will o Wisp which is then combined with STAB Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse. On top of that, Mega Sableyes biggest immediate checks (before calm minds) are fairy types who can smack it hard and limit set up oppurtunities but which all get destroyed by Mega Metagross. Another thing I've heard about is the drop in Mega Venusaur usage in favor of Mega Sableye, which may have something to do with all these Mega Metagrosses running around with their Tough Claws boosts to Zen Headbutt. I genuinely think that Mega Metagross limits team building and should be suspected, and I expect that if it were banned we'd start to see less Mega Sableyes and more Mega Venusaurs.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Mega Sableye hasn't repleaced Mega Venusaur on stall just because of Mega Metagross. Mega Sableye's assest are various and unique; are you able to name something else that can burn stuff, control hazards, spinblock, act as a safety shield against Taunt based stallbreakers, provide a status immunity and on top of this even acting as a powerful wincondition that can't be taunted or phazed? Mega Venusaur's advantages(but also those of other bulky Mega Evolutions such as Mega Charizard X, Mega Altaria, Mega Slowbro ) are aviable more or less in the same fashon on a stall team by using some similar non Mega Pokémon(i.e. Amoonguss or Chesnaught instead of Venusaur, Heatran or SpDef Talonflame instead of X, Clefable instead of Altaria, Slowbro instead of Mega Slowbro). Sure, the non-mega Pokémon are a bit worse than their Mega counterparts, but is it really worth to forfeit the immense utility of Mega Sableye just to have a slightly upgraded Chesnaught?

Note that this "use amoonguss and don't waste ur mega" stuff applies to stall teams only. On balanced and offensive teams, Venusaur's advantages over Amoonguss and Chesnaught, such as higher bulk, neutrality to Fire and Ice and expecially much higher power are more appreciated and are actually worth the use of Venusaur even though it "wastes a mega slot". Sure, it faces competition with Altaria, Metagross and Scizor on bulky offense, but unlike Altaria it isn't roflstomped by Fairies, and unlike Scizor and Metagross it doesn't have trouble with surprise fire coverage and resists Water, making it a better check to stuff like Mega Altaria, Keldeo, Mega Manectric and Clefable

 

[SketchUp]

Why are we already asking for suspects if the current one is not even over? We could maybe wait untill the metagame adapts and if something stands out as broken we could suspect that in the future
About Mega Venusaur: many people are underprepared for Mega Venusaur and with things like Keldeo, Clefable, Thundurus and Azumarill everywhere it is a very good wall. I still love using the defensive set on semi-stall teams, but you are pretty much forced to run either fast mons or run unaware clefable if you don't want to lose 6-0 to Mega Gallade.

I genuinely think that Mega Metagross limits team building and should be suspected, and I expect that if it were banned we'd start to see less Mega Sableyes and more Mega Venusaurs.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
^ That is not a switch in

 

[master_marshmallow]

Iron Tail is way too situational for a main set imo; very inaccurate and hits very specific targets your other team-mates should be dealing with anyway. I'd rather run Roost for longetivity or even Earthquake for better general coverage.

I agree for the most part. The whole point of having a third attack in place of Roost imo however is to land those crucial OHKOs without taking recoil damage. If at all possible, as it saves a turn instead of giving away free setup