Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)

[Force Majeure]

EDIT: Ninjask'd

Guys, what is the exact definition of four-move-slot-syndrome? Every pokemon does get better with a fifth move somehow, but where is the border between just getting better and four-move-slot syndrome? I think a lot of people dont know what it is exactly cause in topics some people say that a specific pokemon has 4mss while others say it has not.

On another note, is it an idea to make a thread about 4mss where people can discuss about the exact definition? I think this will help the discussions on the forum.

To add to what Kurona wrote, the border between 4MSS and "picking and choosing its counters/checks" (like Greninja, Mega Metagross, Lando-I) can be somewhat blurry at times, so there's usually going to be some debate. It's a bit like the prediction "50/50" discussion that came up ad nauseam during the Aegislash suspect test. It's one of those things that gets a lot easier to decipher the more you play; I hate to pull this trite phase out, but eventually you'll know it when you see it.

I don't think a thread about it is necessary, unless it's a stickied post containing some baseline definitions of commonly-used competitive terms like 4MSS, 50/50s, checks vs counters (although this is addressed in the suspect threadiquette thread), Offense, Balance, Stall, Wallbreakers, Stallbreakers, etc. Posters *should* know these things already, but I agree(?) that perhaps a glossary of competitive terms would be useful.

 

[freekhoorn]

EDIT: Ninjask'd


To add to what Kurona wrote, the border between 4MSS and "picking and choosing its counters/checks" (like Greninja, Mega Metagross, Lando-I) can be somewhat blurry at times, so there's usually going to be some debate. It's a bit like the prediction "50/50" discussion that came up ad nauseam during the Aegislash suspect test. It's one of those things that gets a lot easier to decipher the more you play; I hate to pull this trite phase out, but eventually you'll know it when you see it.

I don't think a thread about it is necessary, unless it's a stickied post containing some baseline definitions of commonly-used competitive terms like 4MSS, 50/50s, checks vs counters (although this is addressed in the suspect threadiquette thread), Offense, Balance, Stall, Wallbreakers, Stallbreakers, etc. Posters *should* know these things already, but I agree(?) that perhaps a glossary of competitive terms would be useful.

But this contradicts a bit with what kurona said that only bad or sub-par pokemon can have 4mss.

 

[Kurona]

But this contradicts a bit with what kurona said that only bad or sub-par pokemon can have 4mss.

I perhaps did word it a little inaccurately or vaguely. What I mean to say is that 4MSS is when a Pokémon only being able to have four moves is a detriment to it; while a Pokémon without 4MSS is one that may like to have a fifth moveslot, but not having a fifth moveslot is not a detriment to it.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Wow ok! Didnt expect it to be that far! So this means that 4mss can never be used as an argument for suspect tested pokemon! Cause they obviously are good in the metagame otherwise they would not be suspect tested! A lot of people are saying mega metagross and greninja and a lot of others have it tough. But its nice to know what it means now! Thanks .

Just to add to the above statement, a mon can still do well even if it has 4MSS. It just tends to require more noticeable team support to make up for the lack of that 5th move than other mons might. In Gen V Volcarona was considered to have pretty bad 4MSS since Fire/Bug is a pretty bad type combination and usually had to choose between Roost for longevity, Giga Drain to have a shot at all the Water types running around that gen, or Hidden Power Ground for Heatran and Tentacruel, two very common Stall threats back then that wall it for days. Despite having 4MSS, to this day it's still an A-ranked threat in the BW metagame.

 

[SketchUp]

Hello, I wanted to try out NP Togekiss in OU (NP, Roost, Air Slash) but I have 0 experience with it. What is the best option in the last slot, what is the best EV spread and what are good teammates for Togekiss?

 

[freekhoorn]

Just to add to the above statement, a mon can still do well even if it has 4MSS. It just tends to require more noticeable team support to make up for the lack of that 5th move than other mons might. In Gen V Volcarona was considered to have pretty bad 4MSS since Fire/Bug is a pretty bad type combination and usually had to choose between Roost for longevity, Giga Drain to have a shot at all the Water types running around that gen, or Hidden Power Ground for Heatran and Tentacruel, two very common Stall threats back then that wall it for days. Despite having 4MSS, to this day it's still an A-ranked threat in the BW metagame.

So all things combined, pokemon with 4mss are significantly worse than they would be with more moves in terms of needed team support, and coverage. As in they need a pretty specific team member without its fifth move or it has a lot more checks/counters, and a lot means five or more ou viable pokemon? Cause greninja had only a few, tentacruel and alomomola. And how about mega metagross? His best set is hammer arm zen headbutt meteor mash and ice punch isnt it? So bulky water types who else would be hit by grass knot are now more safe switchins.

 

[Xenol]

Is this Diancie worth using for OU?

 

[Kurona]

Is this Diancie worth using for OU?

Yes.

 

[master_marshmallow]

Is this Diancie worth using for OU?

Also yes

 

[Celticpride]

Does Knock Off have 97.5 BP when attacking something with a Clobur Berry, and does said Berry activate? I'm getting conflicting answers on how much damage you take.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Does Knock Off have 97.5 BP when attacking something with a Clobur Berry, and does said Berry activate? I'm getting conflicting answers on how much damage you take.

Yes the berry activates, and yes it is 97.5 BP

 

[Firebird101]

Guys, what is the exact definition of four-move-slot-syndrome? Every pokemon does get better with a fifth move somehow, but where is the border between just getting better and four-move-slot syndrome? I think a lot of people dont know what it is exactly cause in topics some people say that a specific pokemon has 4mss while others say it has not.

On another note, is it an idea to make a thread about 4mss where people can discuss about the exact definition? I think this will help the discussions on the forum.

To add on what everyone else has said 4mss isn't even necessarily considered a bad thing. Now this of course just depends how badly the pokemon in question suffers from 4mss but because it has more than 4 viable moves it can also make it unpredictable and you don't necessarily know how to deal with the said mon. Dragon Dance Dragonite for example usually has to choose between fire punch and eq for coverage and because you most likely do not know which coverage move it has you don't know if you should send out Heatran or Ferrothorn to check it. It is why it is can get a bit difficult to tell between a detrimental 4mss and a beneficial one.

Can't say if a thread would help make it clearer but it would be nice if Smogon had a some sorta dictionary so people would get less confused on all these terms xD

 

[Aragorn the King]

Hello, I wanted to try out NP Togekiss in OU (NP, Roost, Air Slash) but I have 0 experience with it. What is the best option in the last slot, what is the best EV spread and what are good teammates for Togekiss?

It depends if you want to go defensive or offensive, and if you want to use Baton Pass or not. Baton Pass, Heal Bell, and Aura Sphere are all good options for the fourth slot, and the spread varies from set to set. Look here for info on all three sets :)

 

[BONGMASTER420]

What is a good move set for life orb hydreigon? im thinking draco meteor, earth power, fire blast and dark pulse. also what are some good teammates for it?

 

[boltsandbombers]

What is a good move set for life orb hydreigon? im thinking draco meteor, earth power, fire blast and dark pulse. also what are some good teammates for it?

Read this: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/hydreigon.3524281/

 

[BONGMASTER420]

Read this: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/hydreigon.3524281/

Thanks you :]

 

[eosborne0011]

I was wondering if this would make a good core? Charizard X, Zapdos, (with defog, thunderbolt, roost, and either heat wave or HP ice/grass) and belly drum Azumarill... I'm just starting competitive and know a RMT would be better place to ask this, but I still don't have a team completed. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place.

 

[ssjjynx]

Why have I only ever heard of 1 of these 4 moves?

 

[AM]

I was wondering if this would make a good core? Charizard X, Zapdos, (with defog, thunderbolt, roost, and either heat wave or HP ice/grass) and belly drum Azumarill... I'm just starting competitive and know a RMT would be better place to ask this, but I still don't have a team completed. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place.

This is the right place for basic questions such as this. This would be fine but more or less you would need to take into account lots of factors such as the threats in the tier as well as other good cores that could work with your team as well as what cores could threaten it. The link provided below can help you get accustomed to OU a bit more with various links.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/guide-to-the-oras-ou-metagame.3524015/

View attachment 33325
Why have I only ever heard of 1 of these 4 moves?

Cause the last 3 aren't real moves. It's all a dream.

 

[eosborne0011]

This is the right place for basic questions such as this. This would be fine but more or less you would need to take into account lots of factors such as the threats in the tier as well as other good cores that could work with your team as well as what cores could threaten it. The link provided below can help you get accustomed to OU a bit more with various links.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/guide-to-the-oras-ou-metagame.3524015/

Cause the last 3 aren't real moves. It's all a dream.

I know Rock moves pretty much destroy Charizard and Zapdos and Azumarill if I don't OHKO it. I guess I would have to remove the threats with other pokemon, but thats where I'm stuck. Pokemon that I have tried with them are Chansey, Alakazam, Greninja, and Scizor and I still get beaten almost every time

 

[AM]

I know Rock moves pretty much destroy Charizard and Zapdos and Azumarill if I don't OHKO it. I guess I would have to remove the threats with other pokemon, but thats where I'm stuck. Pokemon that I have tried with them are Chansey, Alakazam, Greninja, and Scizor and I still get beaten almost every time

Handling a type =/= handling a specific threat. For example you can say that you have Electric types handled with a Ground type but this would be false generally cause the majority of relevant Electric types such as Rotom-W, Thundurus, and Zapdos aren't concerned with Ground attacks due to ability or typing. The link that was provided gives you other links such as good cores to help you build and use those as foundations. My advice would be to build from these or use teams in the Rate My Team section to get yourself accustomed to the tier itself. In order to actually know what works with what you simply have to play the game by using a solid foundation and most of these foundations are already prepared for you through good cores and the RMT section. It also comes down to the type of player you are in terms of what you want to build. This isn't exactly a simple answer as ironic as it sounds on a simple question simple answer thread so if you got any more questions feel free to message me whenever you feel like it.

 

[eosborne0011]

Handling a type =/= handling a specific threat. For example you can say that you have Electric types handled with a Ground type but this would be false generally cause the majority of relevant Electric types such as Rotom-W, Thundurus, and Zapdos aren't concerned with Ground attacks due to ability or typing. The link that was provided gives you other links such as good cores to help you build and use those as foundations. My advice would be to build from these or use teams in the Rate My Team section to get yourself accustomed to the tier itself. In order to actually know what works with what you simply have to play the game by using a solid foundation and most of these foundations are already prepared for you through good cores and the RMT section. It also comes down to the type of player you are in terms of what you want to build. This isn't exactly a simple answer as ironic as it sounds on a simple question simple answer thread so if you got any more questions feel free to message me whenever you feel like it.

I completely missed the link you gave me until now. I probably will message you in the future soon for help, seeing that you are an OU mentor. Thank you!

 

[Blazikarados]

What's the most effective way to get off a Mega Evolution with Mega Diancie? On the turn you do, you basically have 50/110/110 bulk which wouldn't be too bad except for the 50 HP and also the 50 base speed for the first turn, so you are vulnerable to attack. It just feels awkward to be unguarded like that, and I really don't want to have to rely on Protect to get the safe Mega.

 

[AM]

What's the most effective way to get off a Mega Evolution with Mega Diancie? On the turn you do, you basically have 50/110/110 bulk which wouldn't be too bad except for the 50 HP and also the 50 base speed for the first turn, so you are vulnerable to attack. It just feels awkward to be unguarded like that, and I really don't want to have to rely on Protect to get the safe Mega.

Yeah protect is still the best way unfortunately. Other ways that can be implemented on your team to help this is through the use of Thunder Wave users such as Klefki and Thundurus for example to give Diancie that advantage. Most times you'll have to resort to switching into something that doesn't immediately threaten it such as slower builds or stuff that is already threatened by M-Diancie already, such as a Magnezone being locked into HP Fire is one example of this scenario.

 

[Roylund]

View attachment 33325
Why have I only ever heard of 1 of these 4 moves?

I hope the move you knew was Falcon-related.

What's the most effective way to get off a Mega Evolution with Mega Diancie? On the turn you do, you basically have 50/110/110 bulk which wouldn't be too bad except for the 50 HP and also the 50 base speed for the first turn, so you are vulnerable to attack. It just feels awkward to be unguarded like that, and I really don't want to have to rely on Protect to get the safe Mega.

AM touched on it already but Sticky Web support (although unpopular right now) will allow you to outspeed plenty of mons, but they are a hassle to keep up. Protect is the most reliable option, however, even when it's almost useless outside of mega evolving. What I'd try to do is send out Diancie on something it forces out/can tank/is really passive and Rock Polish on that turn.