Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

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I realize that Charizard X can be stopped but it places a HUGE restriction on teambuilding and the metagame. First this thing is not easy to revenge kill for most types. You need a powerful scarfer and even then Char X can be switched out. 25% dmg from SR isn't very much do dent Zard and his bulkiness. You never know what set it is running and different ones have different checks. Most types struggle with this monster and it severely limits teambuilding. Charizards bulkiness and sweeping potential make him an incredible threat to any team. In my opinion Char X has the same devastating effect as Shaymin-S on the metagame except it is commonly used on a type (flying) that is already very strong.
Char X can't switch into much, as it only gains its bulk when it Mega Evolves, takes 50% from rocks on first switch, and base 100 speed is kinda low now. Prankster Paralysis (Whimsicott/Klefki/ThundyI), status from a bulky mon, and there are Scarfers who can take it on, and outspeed even if it is at +1 (Lati@s and Dragon/Dragon Pulse, Terrakion and Stone Edge, Keldeo and Hydro Pump (neutral, but STAB, and powerful), Garchomp and either STAB, Skymin and Earth Power or flinchax, Greninja and whatever is the most powerful neutral hit or Rock Slide if you run that, Noivern and Dragon STAB, Salamence speed-ties and Dragon STAB/EQ). Those account for Grass, Steel, Fairy, Electric, Flying, Dragon, Ground, Psychic, Rock, Fighting, Water, and Dark. Fire is immune to WoW and resistant to Flare Blitz but weak to EQ. If no EQ, Heatran walls. If EQ+Fire move Air Balloon Heatran walls. If Dragon move+EQ, then Fire struggles, but Air Balloon Heatran can Earth Power it putting it into KO range for priority (such as Band Entei Extremespeed/Arcanine Extremespeed/Infernape Mach Punch). Intimidate users lower its attack. Bug has Scarfcross and Mega Pinsir but relies on Char X not setting up first. Phazers/Haze/Clear Smog is always an option. Taunt prevents it from setting up/roosting. Grass also has Sash Breloom with Rock Tomb/Spore. Um. Too lazy to remember what types I didn't cover.
Nvm, normal: Scarf Ditto Dragon move or EQ if it doesn't carry a dragon move once it gets set up a couple of times. Sash Spore Smeargle works too. Ice: Thick Fat Eviolite fully invested Piloswine can tank a hit, and EQ puts it close to LO Mamoswine Ice Shard KO range. There is also always Sash/Destiny Bond Froslass (for Ice and Ghost). Ghost has Jellicent who can somewhat stall it and Froslass. Electric: Prankster Thundy-I T-Wave into Band Electivire EQ. Poison struggles. Tentacruel w/ Acid Spray into Scarf/LO Nidoking I guess (ScarfKing doesn't outspeed +1 Zard tho). Sticky Web affects it after it Mega Evolves, as do Toxic Spikes (these are iffy counters though, admittedly, and only useful against flying for Mega Char X or Mega Gyar after they Mega Evolve). Note that there are other ways of countering it, that I am simply too lazy to try and remember. Foul Play is another thing, on Mandibuzz or Klefki or Umbreon or another Pokemon that uses it.

Also, A Hunk I don't think most Zekroms would run Band if it were unbanned, as it needs Earth Power or Draco Meteor to help beat physical walls and steel/electric types. LO (for power/ability to change moves) or Scarf (boosting its low speed) would be more common I think. Also, Mega Sableye will give it a nice burn, causing a not 2HKO and it can Recover stall, and Mega Venusaur has Leech Seed, and a switch to Ferro if necessary (probably best option if it is locked into Outrage). Nidoking also has BoltBeam coverage. And Nidoqueen and Starmie and Lapras and Latias and Latios and Tyranitar and Blissey (!!!!) and Clefable and Wigglytuff (BoltBeamWishProtect?) and Lanturn and Kecleon (Protean ftw) and Mega Audino (o3o) and lots of others, most of which suck though (Slaking and Delcatty ftw, amirite?). Not all of those are viable, but they are usable.
 
Also, A Hunk I don't think most Zekroms would run Band if it were unbanned, as it needs Earth Power or Draco Meteor to help beat physical walls and steel/electric types. LO (for power/ability to change moves) or Scarf (boosting its low speed) would be more common I think. Also, Mega Sableye will give it a nice burn, causing a not 2HKO and it can Recover stall, and Mega Venusaur has Leech Seed, and a switch to Ferro if necessary (probably best option if it is locked into Outrage).

LO, Band, Scarf, Lefties would all be possible sets depending on the rest of the electric team.

I personally think Band would be popular to give electric the physical wallbreaking potential it's always lacked, especially with sticky web support. I didn't say they would all be band, but even LO variants would 2HKO a lot of those walls. Even with a burn Mega-Sableye is still being 2HKOd because the first hit does 80% of the health. If Mega-Saur doesn't use synthesis on the first turn it's going to be 2HKOd regardless of leech seed.

Nidoking also has BoltBeam coverage. And Nidoqueen and Starmie and Lapras and Latias and Latios and Tyranitar and Blissey (!!!!) and Clefable and Wigglytuff (BoltBeamWishProtect?) and Lanturn and Kecleon (Protean ftw) and Mega Audino (o3o) and lots of others, most of which suck though (Slaking and Delcatty ftw, amirite?). Not all of those are viable, but they are usable.
What are you listing here? Possible Zekrom counters?

Nidoqueen/Nidoking (E-powered).
Lanturn (bolt striked)
Kecleon (bolt striked)
Starmie (screwed if webs, also can't OHKO)
Lapras (can't KO)
Tyranitar (can't KO and is 2HKOd by bolt strike)
Blissey (Bolt striked)


I think Mega-Audino would actually stop Zekrom, if only by barely surviving the hits and stalling.
 
I don't think I have the capacity to reply to that huge wall of text, but I'll try somewhat.

Go look up how many electric pokemon know Earthquake. It's okay; I can wait ;3;

Really nothing less than banded Electavire is clearing Zard-X out, or MEga-Ampharos if you've pulled off the para.
What priority are you using? Can i haz it?
Anyway, a big criticism is that all the suggestions for dealing with DD Zard X are royally screwed by bulkzard.
And as for scarves with SE moves and 100+ base speed; That's not something every monotype has easy access to, or would naturally have on a team when teambuilding. Scarf Terrakion, Scarf Latios, Scarf Garchomp are the only pokemon that come to mind tbh.

Stunfisk. Ok now the serious reply. Tbh, the fault with nearly your entire argument is that it assumes chari-x got +1 at 100% HP which is its best case scenario.

- Yes priority is a big pain in chari's side. What I meant simply is if it's lit and take more damage from a fast scarfer who wasn't able to kill it. As long as the damage of "x" is greatly suficient, I would say mid 3hko range, is a solid revenge killing option. Also cute to post adamant scarf diggersby calc, LO/Band digs does much better ;)

- NO, Absolute 0 I mentioned are screwed by bulkyzard. Hell if a zard-x isn't at +1 it's really not hard to get a poke to hit hard or toxic it. The Counters I mentioned assumed the scenario that it's at +1 and you're choosing a mon to send in. If a zard-x isn't at +1... that makes it a lot easier to make it go bye bye.

- Electric. Fact of the matter is, 1/2 of all elec teams run electivire (based on this ). Which can do a decent amount to zard -x. Elec unlike the other examples above may have to sac a poke to dent it first. Which is why I stated it's a bit iffy for them. Don't just try to re-word as if I said elec had a bread and butter answer to it.

- The examples I didn't include, thought didn't need any evidence because of how obvious it is. rock doesn't even consider chari-x in teambuilding.

- Since you assumed Chari-X was at 100% and misunderstood my mentions of priority, it makes a lot of your arguments irrelevant. Posting calcs of priority damage doesn't do anything to what I am saying. Your bisharp calc you posted wasn't LO, Heatran does significant damage and that's all that matters. Here is the problem with your statement you think I'm listing pokes that just straight up nuke zard-x which is far from reasonable to do with any top tier mon in the monotype meta. I posted pokes that do significant amount of damage and in practical scenarios would be viable options for killing zard off at +1 and lit lightly. Priority was mentioned, so that they can pick off Heavily chari's who presummably take damage from a weak fast scarf, or another priority user.

- There are many pokes over 100 base speed, and when a monotype didn't have access to a perfectly viable one, I showed various other ways of handling it. Some better than others ofc.

- Flying IS BARELY capable of running stall/balance. Any Gen V player knows this. Without Zard-X, Flying monotype plays much like pseudo-steel core. Basically, just having an immunity core and making 50/50s in which you lose a poke or live to predict another 50/50. This occurs instead of making a team with actually solid switch-ins. Flying does not have the same defensive prowess as steel so this becomes a big problem for those two playstyles. I made a flying stall team and I've been using it well over 4 months. Let me tell you, it is simply incomprehensible to make a stall team just as effective as HO without chari-x. Hell, Stall Flying is sub-par even now. Greninja is super overcentralizing and worrying about dealing with Fighting Monotypes Wealth of WallBreakers is only part of it. This is what I mean by delicate balance. It isn't over equipped at all. You see a mighty tower, I see a construct in which if you pull one block away it tumbles down like Jenga. Is that not delicate?

I can't argue Charizard-X warrants a ban based on it's own merits, and I'd have trouble arguing that it warrants a ban based on flying monos being "overpowered".
- *Cringe* Well first off you didn't have a reply to what I said about how flying takes many plays and surely some skill to play effectively. It doesn't auto-win anything and every type has a fighting chance of beating it. It is the ideal top tier that still is balanced. That isn't enough though? What is your idea of top tier then, Skymin & Frens or Kyu-W and Frens?

I mean you can say "boltbeam is the easiest coverage to obtain in the game", but how many pokemon actually have it, especially in monotype? There are only a handful I can think of; electric types who run HP Ice (SpD Gliscor dispatches), Kyurem-B, Genesect, Porygon2/Z, rotom-fridge..... Even then, Mega-Gyarados and Articuno exist and tank a lot of the crucial hits they need to.
- Flying has arguably more 50/50s than any type. First of all Mixed Tanks are hard to come by and even those mixed tanks have to worry about coverage moves (namely boltbeam & Fire)wiping them out(Zard-X, sp.def gliscor, sp.def gyarados). Now besides the basic Physical or Special wall, There is Rock, Fire, Ice, Elec. Any Combination of them (in which Rock and Ice you can't switch in immunity) mean a 50/50 or just you plainly take damage and send in the correspending physical/special wall. BUT WAIT! There's a problem with that. Pokes like MegaCham for example who run Ice Punch Kill every single mon on flying.

>>>Let's lower the power scale then. Victini is about to hit skarm so you need to switch out. You can go to Lando-T(you risk glaciate on mix sets or just a fully invested blue flare coming your way), Zapdos(Whom depending on your spread will get bopped by V-Create or Blue Flare), Gyarados(BoltStrike hits skarm too, and thunderbolt as well). In the victini scenario you not only play physical/special wall coin flip you gotta factor in coverage. This also shows how Fire attacks alone plague flying, Gyarados is the only answer to the Fire + Ice Combination. Ah, but all of this is alleviated when you add Zard-X to the picture who can block fire, ice, and elec attacks with the catch of suffering From both of the very common EdgeQuake. (Keep in mind EQ is the most common move in the game). Once again it is a very delicate balance ^_^ Uh... Articuno... Problem is you can't just always assume you're not taking rocks damage. Plus it's not resistant to any of the 4 coverage moves that plague flying. Hell it's weak to 3 out of the 4, also Articuno doesn't take STAB Fire or Elec moves very well. It's team synergy is rather poor too(What do you need to ice beam? A grass mono?!?!).

tl;dr You're a bad person and should read my post.
 
What are you listing here? Possible Zekrom counters?

Nidoqueen/Nidoking (E-powered).
Lanturn (bolt striked)
Kecleon (bolt striked)
Starmie (screwed if webs, also can't OHKO)
Lapras (can't KO)
Tyranitar (can't KO and is 2HKOd by bolt strike)
Blissey (Bolt striked)


I think Mega-Audino would actually stop Zekrom, if only by barely surviving the hits and stalling.
Nope, lol, I was just saying more Pokemon with BoltBeam. You said how many Pokemon had it, and I replied a lot, giving some examples (there are others, but those are the most viable).
>Kecleon being considered a Zekrom counter rof
Also, cool, 111 posts XD
 
Ice may still suck with or without Kyurem-W, but that doesn't mean they should be able to keep it. Your post massively underestimates its usefulness.

Ok, now let's talk about Flying. I specialise in flying, as I have done since gen 5. You say "A well played Cloyster can easily auto win vs. flying and dragon". lol. Even assuming it runs the rare hydro pump, it can't OHKO skarmory at +2 and gets phased. Add to this the fact that Skarmory is very good at its job and can very often get SR down, allowing Cloyster's sash to be broken. Cloyster may be strong against Flying, it's true, however a well-played flying team will always be able to beat it, and generally will be able to KO it before it can even shell smash. Next, we look at Kyu-B. Flying once again doesn't like this monster very much. If we assume the standard scarf set that most ice teams are inevitably forced to run due to lack of team support, we'll see that it has a 3.1% chance to 2HKO skarm, whether using fusion bolt or ice beam. Now, technically that means it's not a counter, that's true. But given the standard scarf set does, in fact, run a choice scarf, this gives plenty of options for a pokemon like Landorus (if bolt strike) to come in, set stealth rock, do whatever. Meanwhile Togekiss will happily tank ice beams from most Kyu-B sets that are run. I'm not saying it's easy for flying to deal with this monster, don't get me wrong. It's not only got BoltBeam coverage, which flying struggles enough with already, but it's a mixed boltbeam coverage where neither the physical nor the special side can be walled at all easily. But flying can just about handle it, if played extremely well and doesn't get particularly unlucky.
Now, Kyu-W steps into the mix. It 2HKOs literally everything. There is no flying pokemon that can counter it. There is no flying pokemon that can check it. On my team, I had to add a specialised pokemon just to be able to revenge kill it. And if you're going to suggest running Articuno is a decent way of dealing with it, there's a word for that: Overcentralisation. (And let's not even mention Stealth Rock). Look, there is simply no way a good flying player will beat a good ice player, even if this ice player is worse than the flying player. This thing turns a winnable, if difficult, matchup into a downright impossible one.

Let's look at this.
There is no adapting to Kyurem-W. You know what I've done? I've stopped even bothering to bring a revenge killer. I see it in 2% of my games, and I simply mark those games down as losses. That's how I adapted to the threat. I could bring Articuno, and severely limit my team's ability in 98% of games just to stand perhaps a 50% chance of winning the 2% of games in which it appears. I could bring a revenge killer and weaken my team somewhat in 98% of games, only to have a 10% of winning those 2% of games. Or I could simply ignore it. And when you simply accept losing any game in which this pokemon turns up, because tactically that's your best option, you know it's broken. If it comes in, and zard x isn't already at +1, then I've got to sacrifice perhaps 2, perhaps 3 pokemon to stand a chance of KOing it.
This pokemon is the definition of broken. It destroys not only my type, but perhaps 5 others as well. Perhaps more. But this pokemon does not "do nothing". The fact that ice isn't top-tier is irrelevant. Moreso, as you've pointed out yourself its existence doesn't change how usable ice is. As I've said in previous posts, this pokemon does little to help against its weaknesses (Ice still loses 83% of all games to steel! 83%!) and yet it utterly destroys other types. Look at poison, look at grass, look at electric. Once the current suspects are dealt with, let's ban this thing.

DoW out.

If you ask me this sounds exactly like Charizard X against electric. But aparrently that isn't enough reason for a ban so I personally don't think this should be banned either. Granted it is really strong, but it levels the playing field for ice.
 
Um that 25% off is huge, don't just shrug that off as nothing. You do not need a powerful scarfer either, anything that is above the 100 speed tier scarfed and a move that hits SE is able to revenge kill it. I don't see how it restricts teambuilding. Sure you have it in mind, but it should never cost you a severe amount of practicality. It's tough for electric because Chari-X basically walls nearly every offensive poke they have. however paralyzing it and then EQing it with whatever usually solves this problem. You can also make your team less setup bait.

>"Never Know what set it's running"
Excuse my french but, Horse S***. It's either bulkyzard or d-dance. No ifs ,ands or buts. Most of your claims are just baseless assertions that have no supporting argument whatsoever. For the bulky variant you don't worry about it sweeping you and can just toxic and the traditional ways of killing the D-dance variant work the same. As for D-dance I'll just state it again. Scarf over 100 base tier with SE move(even if it's not SE, something with priority wipes it off the map), Something that eats a hit and takes it out (ex. Swampert, AB Heatran) - By "takes it out" this can also mean para. These reqs are not that hard to fulfill just naturally teambuilding a team :I

"Most types struggle with this monster"
Dragon, ground, water(Sampert, Azu, many more), fire(Glaciate Scarftini, Mach Punch Infernape, Arcanine/Entei, T-wave Rotom-H), fairy(Mega Diancie, Azu, Klefki, Toge), Rock, steel(AB Heatran, Bisharp, Cobalion, Empoleon), psychic(Latios, Glaciate Scarftini, MegaCham, Uxie"T-wave"), fighting(Priority, Scarf Keldeo/Terrak),
normal(Ditto, Snorlax, Pory2, Lopunny, Ambipom, Diggersby Tho?), dark(t-tar,Mind games w/ Sucker Punch, Krook), flying, Grass(Scarf HP Rock Serperior, Breloom, Scarf Sceptile, Shiftry, Scarf Virizion, Whimsicott).

- All of these types have a fairly easy way of ridding of Chari-X, so remind me how is that most? The remaining types still have ways to kill, but I wouldn't say It's as easy as the types above(elec has to para first, Ghost needs scarfGar, ice ;-; needs niche things but fake out weavile, preserving sash on froslass, Pilowsine, and Walrein for example).

Tbh, I think flying is very overrated and chari-x with that. First and foremost flying is in a very delicate balance right now and is barely able to run balance/stall. Chari-X Basically carries the playstyle and puts in a lot of work for HO as well. If Chari-X is banned for "bettering the meta" then you just made two playstyle unviable for flying because it will just force it into too many 50/50s via BoltBeam predictions. What this essentially does is return flying to it's Gen V. A Hyper Offensive Cluster F***. Defog helped alleviate this, but I'd argue charizard x had a just as large effect.

At it's current state, Flying doesn't just automatically win you the game. You have to predict and play your cards carefully. Some of the most intense battles usually feature a flying team. Hell for flying you don't have 5 fodder mons and 1 mon sweeping. No, you have a team that needs to have synergy and be played well to win. Generic Flying is commonly complained about however you get that in any metagame, pokemon or not. In any game, what is seen as successful is more commonly used. There will always be a generic team of whatever type, no matter what you do. Flying is one of the better types and is in fact top tier. No matter what there will always be tiers and in the top tier I'd rather it be a type that doesn't have a bluntly broken pokemon. All this being said, I don't even main flying.

tl;dr: Flying Monotype is a lot like the harmonica. Noob Friendly, but hard to master. Oh and good poke =/= broken :I

Ok, your counters aren't even counters. Glaciate Scarftini like really?
252 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 68-81 (22.8 - 27.2%) -- 56.1% chance to 4HKO Look at taht puny damage. How does that deal with Zard X in the slightest. It just roosts off damage and EQ's or dragon claws.
Mach Punch infernape
212 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 78-94 (26.2 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO That doesn't even do much.
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-H: 246-289 (80.9 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock No way rotom-H gets a chace to t-wave this thing.
Entei/Arcanine/Fletchinder are the only way to deal with this thing. And even still you are lucky to do 50% with a band equiped.
Mega Diancie has a hard time tanking and EQ. Best chance for fairy is kelfki/Azu
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 202-238 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And remind me how porygon2 actually stops this monster? by para yeah right. Flying has acess to heal bell.
Plenty of your other "Checks" don't actually beat this thing. And a good flying player simply saves zard for later.
If you are going to say something checks zard. At least back it up with some calcs.
I understand that 25% is noticable but more often than not zard can roost off the damage, or if not flying has plenty of defogers.
And don't forget you can run arvada's belly drum zard. So thats 3 viable sets.
Charizard X SEVERELY restricts teambuilding and most types have to be built specifically around this mon. It is more destructive than Ky-W. The only difference is that Ky-W wrecks flying which is a huge portion of this metagame so it is cosidered more dangerous. It just seems like we are playing type favorites.
 
Ok, your counters aren't even counters. Glaciate Scarftini like really?
252 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 68-81 (22.8 - 27.2%) -- 56.1% chance to 4HKO Look at taht puny damage. How does that deal with Zard X in the slightest. It just roosts off damage and EQ's or dragon claws.
Mach Punch infernape
212 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 78-94 (26.2 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO That doesn't even do much.
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-H: 246-289 (80.9 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock No way rotom-H gets a chace to t-wave this thing.
Entei/Arcanine/Fletchinder are the only way to deal with this thing. And even still you are lucky to do 50% with a band equiped.
Mega Diancie has a hard time tanking and EQ. Best chance for fairy is kelfki/Azu
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 202-238 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And remind me how porygon2 actually stops this monster? by para yeah right. Flying has acess to heal bell.
Plenty of your other "Checks" don't actually beat this thing. And a good flying player simply saves zard for later.
If you are going to say something checks zard. At least back it up with some calcs.
I understand that 25% is noticable but more often than not zard can roost off the damage, or if not flying has plenty of defogers.
And don't forget you can run arvada's belly drum zard. So thats 3 viable sets.
Charizard X SEVERELY restricts teambuilding and most types have to be built specifically around this mon. It is more destructive than Ky-W. The only difference is that Ky-W wrecks flying which is a huge portion of this metagame so it is cosidered more dangerous. It just seems like we are playing type favorites.

Imma keep this short and sweet.

Scarf tini robs it of speed boosts and if it roosts it puts itself at -1 speed. um that mach punch is a lot, and it's good if it's lit. >After SR how convenient, That is a matter of how hazard control goes in the match. Porygon2 Paralyzes it & Teammates Finish :I Chari-X is used late game and if they switch out to heal bell and you allow that. Who's fault is that. Even so, They just got rid of their boosts and I'm assuming he's lit.

Oh and another thing. Your arguing char-x is broken yet in multiple of your arguments you state the Chari-X user has to use skill to get around situations? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Arvada's Custom set for Chari-X is irrelevant here. Should I account for every Mew Custom set as well? Chari-X's teambuilding restricting is very minimal. Run a Fast scarf that hurt Fire and/or a poke that Can Tank hit and Hurt back. Maybe some priority. The three playstyles of: HO, Balance, and Stall All Fulfill that easily and naturally in the art known as Good Teambuilding. Special Tini w/ Glaciate, LO/Band or even anti-lead Infernape, Arcanine/Entei can all 3 be easily seen on a common fire team. Fire doesn't even have to think of Chari-X to Be able to have 3 Good Obstacles.
 
I don't think I have the capacity to reply to that huge wall of text, but I'll try somewhat.

[a whole lot of stuff, long long text wall, lots of misunderstood anger or something]

tl;dr You're a bad person and should read my post.

I think you may have interpreted a subtext of anger, mockery, or condescention in my post that I didn't intend to be there. I'm sorry, I'm very tired and stressed and am discharging it through argument lol.

I also think you may have gotten the impression that I believed most monotypes did not have strong responses to Charizard-X's d-dance set, which I never said. All I said is that the examples you gave weren't adequate. Stronger measures exist on most of those monotypes. The principle of what you were arguing, that the meta is well equipped to deal with charizard-x is something I'm in full agreement with.


Since you assumed Chari-X was at 100% and misunderstood my mentions of priority, it makes a lot of your arguments irrelevant. Posting calcs of priority damage doesn't do anything to what I am saying. Your bisharp calc you posted wasn't LO, Heatran does significant damage and that's all that matters. Here is the problem with your statement you think I'm listing pokes that just straight up nuke zard-x which is far from reasonable to do with any top tier mon in the monotype meta. I posted pokes that do significant amount of damage and in practical scenarios would be viable options for killing zard off at +1 and lit lightly. Priority was mentioned, so that they can pick off Heavily chari's who presummably take damage from a weak fast scarf, or another priority user.
Regarding the calcs I posted, I did you a favor by using the Mega-Zard X set with no investment in HP, which is not what bulky-dragon dance sets use, who also use roost. Even if the player is using a decent amount of HP investment, Mega-Zard can eat a lot more hits. Even at half health Mega-Zard X can roost through most forms out priority is my point/

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 165-196 (49.5 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Quick Attack vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 101-121 (30.3 - 36.3%) -- 46.5% chance to 3HKO


- *Cringe* Well first off you didn't have a reply to what I said about how flying takes many plays and surely some skill to play effectively. It doesn't auto-win anything and every type has a fighting chance of beating it. It is the ideal top tier that still is balanced. That isn't enough though? What is your idea of top tier then, Skymin & Frens or Kyu-W and Frens?
Um...

I didn't say that flying auto-wins anything or that flying monotypes are devoid of skill or that certain monotypes have no chance of defeating it. I'm not sure where you got that impression tbh. The quote of mine that you were responding to explicitedly said "i can't argue that zard-x is overpowered or that flying is overpowered".


- NO, Absolute 0 I mentioned are screwed by bulkyzard. Hell if a zard-x isn't at +1 it's really not hard to get a poke to hit hard or toxic it. The Counters I mentioned assumed the scenario that it's at +1 and you're choosing a mon to send in. If a zard-x isn't at +1... that makes it a lot easier to make it go bye bye.
Bulk Zard can will o wisp a LOT of the pokemon you mentioned and then roost off residual damage though. That's all I meant.

Sorry if I came off as condescending. It's been a long day.

Sowwy c:
 
Disclaimer: I didn't bother with it on fire because I not only don't see it, but I don't see much grief about it. I honestly didn't know there was a lot of grief about it on flying, but more synergy in general.

Alright I didn't really want to deal with this but I'm tired of this forum running in circles. There have been nitpicks at each other comments one after another to come up with maybe one more slight thing that hasn't been mentioned and then just refuting the entire opposition because of it (however many comments have been repeated for what seems like an eternity) .

Charizard traditionally is difficult to stop by teams that are weak to fire and teams that can't hit it hard with the standard 'mons / keep up with its speed tier before and and after setting up (electric has been mentioned). So bug, grass, ice, and steel by that theory gets smashed. But most of the time charizard has to get through armaldo, avalugg, breloom, and heatran. And believe me that can be very difficult at least with my set as my other teammates get pummeled trying to get them out of the way to sweep. For more clarification

Charizard's X skeleton looks like this...

Charizard-Mega-X
Ability: Tough Claws
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance / Belly Drum / Will-o-Wisp / Earthquake
- Flare Blitz / Flame Charge / Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / Outrage / Earthquake
- Earthquake / Roost

If you are running earthquake you are either forgoing recovery, a stab move, or set up (also earthquake isn't boosted by tough claws :x).

Vs. Steel- As hard as it may be to believe, if you aren't running earthquake charizard HATES fighting steel teams. Heatran can switch into all zard x's with impunity, even the belly set, and threaten with earth power / toxic. Not only that, but if you do in fact run earthquake, you are either losing coverage against another type which really hurts him, or you lose recovery, which also sucks.

Vs. Water- Swampert, empoleon, hydro pumps, you name it and you have what you need to make setting up uncomfortable. Now I recently was able to set up on someone notorious for be very good with water and sweep, but that was alot of over prediction and doesn't count haha. Water rarely has troubles.

Vs. Fire- Believe it or not this is kinda tough to set up on too. The dragon dance set has alot more opportunityes than mine does, but it can get shut down by heatran or a scarf darm depending on what is out on the attempted switch. Torkoal can yawn / status, ive seen rotom-h with thunder wave, and charizard-y generally 2HKOs max HP zard x with air slash (favors 2HKO more than not). It has stuff to prevent sweeps.

Vs. Grass- A lurking breloom and the fear of toxic / twave when setting up is usually the biggest fear. Ferro run twave/ toxic, breloom can spore, cradily uses toxic, venusaur 2HKOs with sludge bomb, and skymin can hax his way through. Keep in mind in the matchup zard can just blast away with flare blitz's till youre dead, but reseting charizard takes time and alot of team support to do oftentimes, as he doesn't come out scottfree.

Vs. Dragon- Mega altaria and any speedy scarfer will smash him out of the sky. I personally hate fighting dragon because garchomp is a very solid stealth rocker and kyurem-black is just...sadness.

Vs. Fighting- I usually can't breathe in this matchup and if either gliscor or skarm go down I'm dead. Charizard typically gets a hit or kill, but between the massive offensive pressure and usual difficulty to get rid of the rocks zard plays a very small role unless you are the Will-o-Wisp set, and even then fighting has switchins / scarfers / breloom to deal with that. Also Mega Gallade wreaks havok on flying, especially if ice punch :x

Vs. Psychic- Extremely diverse, bulky and fast mons with status around every corner to keep you on your toes. Slowbro usually can tank if not belly zard, cresselia can tank if bellyzard and toxic/twave back. Scarf latios can draco on predicted moves and force him out even after a set up. I think they are OK.

Vs. Dark- I feel under pressure in this matchup. Rocks from ttar and fast special attacks from greninja scare me from setting up. Even if you have EQ, the common ttar set i see is

+1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Tyranitar: 194-230 (48.1 - 57%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO

just to get stone edged back, not cool.

Vs. Ghost- still pretty hard to set up, toxic on jelli, dynamic punch + sash on golurk, chendelure 2hkos with shadow ball, sableye, i have been reminded ;-;, does have foul play. Now I can just set up and try to destroy and try to come back later, but like I said, that can be hard with rocks depending on the situation.

Vs. Fairy- Clefable (unaware) + Mdiancie + Azumarill + Screens is very hard to set up on. I usually use zard as a trick counter versus a set up sweeper there.

Vs. Poison- Not going to lie, zard can sweep in a very clean manner with the right prediction, but it can just as easily get donked by earthpower and the like from the Nido's. The sweep can be easy, but it does both ways, if rocks are up and a nonchoiced nido comes is, generally I can lose 2 pokes.

Vs. Electric- Now I get the grief, I do honestly. But I would attribute alot of the difficulty to not having a nice rock setter that is even worth using. Zard typically wont set up unless there is something out that can literally do nothing, and even so the thread is convinced he doesn't come out untouched. Togekiss or Articuno would have to come in with heal bell to help him out and that can be prevented to my awareness. I am not entirely in a echo chamber though, I am aware this thing really stinks to play against as a electric user.

Vs. Flying- Belly zard succeeds the most here, or else lando-T will come in and steal your boost and threaten with earthquake or stone edge. Skram can phaze once, altaria is decently common, and gyarados is scary too.

Vs. Rock- Most of these pokes are durable enough to live an earthquake or outrage and OHKO or 2HKO back, Charizard is kinda dead weight here.

Vs. Ground- Constant rock pressure and speedy, powerful threats make it very hard to set up and sweep. Lando-i is initially faster, mamo can take a hit and OHKO back or icicle crash then shard or earthquake based on prediction, gastrodon can poison, hippowdon laughs, even belly zard doesn't ohko, and excadrill under the sand will force out. Very difficult.

Vs. Bug- Armaldo can threaten with rock and ground move, volc can run hp ground and kill after a boost, and galvantula can hope for a thunder hax. Then it is down to priority... yeah this matchup can be very difficult for bug.

Vs. Ice- Avalugg will not tank a flare blitz after swords dance, but flying has its own sword to deal with here so it is usually an exciting game. Don't know what else to say, it is usually an uphill battle.

Vs. Normal- Another bloodbath battle. Between chansey's seemingly endless supply of rocks and status, aided by porygon2's stats and bulk, this can be very hard to break through. Misplays on the flying player's end can cost alot more than vise versa if rocks are up, because banded diggersby will 2HKO skarmory and meloetta can break articuno after rocks and a calm minded / specs boosted psyshock.


To Sum it Up!

I tried to show mons that give flying grief in general versus just things that can defeat charizard 1 on 1 or some kind of almighty counter. Keep in mind what I listed will be played with prediction from both ends in a high level game and I really think that deserves a mention, as one really bad play can cost the game. Also, in general, IF rocks are up, zard is not coming to your town very soon, as flying likes to exist in a hospitable environment before it launches attacks, so keep that in mind. Double switches are extremely punishing as we could be losing 12, 25, or even 50% of damage just to keep priorities alive that are needed to win the game.

I am a flying user so the above comments will have bias in the sense that I would prefer Zard X to not be banned. However, I have tried very hard to be level headed and reasonable with the arguments presented. Thank you for your time reading this nonsense!

Don't ban zard X on the grounds that these 18 matchups for just flying seem to be reasonable in my opinion and keeps the metagame rolling.
 
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I think you may have interpreted a subtext of anger, mockery, or condescention in my post that I didn't intend to be there. I'm sorry, I'm very tired and stressed and am discharging it through argument lol.

I also think you may have gotten the impression that I believed most monotypes did not have strong responses to Charizard-X's d-dance set, which I never said. All I said is that the examples you gave weren't adequate. Stronger measures exist on most of those monotypes. The principle of what you were arguing, that the meta is well equipped to deal with charizard-x is something I'm in full agreement with.



Regarding the calcs I posted, I did you a favor by using the Mega-Zard X set with no investment in HP, which is not what bulky-dragon dance sets use, who also use roost. Even if the player is using a decent amount of HP investment, Mega-Zard can eat a lot more hits. Even at half health Mega-Zard X can roost through most forms out priority is my point/

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 165-196 (49.5 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Quick Attack vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 101-121 (30.3 - 36.3%) -- 46.5% chance to 3HKO



Um...

I didn't say that flying auto-wins anything or that flying monotypes are devoid of skill or that certain monotypes have no chance of defeating it. I'm not sure where you got that impression tbh. The quote of mine that you were responding to explicitedly said "i can't argue that zard-x is overpowered or that flying is overpowered".



Bulk Zard can will o wisp a LOT of the pokemon you mentioned and then roost off residual damage though. That's all I meant.

Sorry if I came off as condescending. It's been a long day.

Sowwy c:
Aww now I feel bad. I'm sorry if I come off as a bit zealous. I'm on my High School debate team so sometimes when I get going I may get heated over my arguments. Will try better to contain myself. Sorry once again ; - ; forgive me senpai
 
Thank you ArVaDa- for summing up the offensive Zard X against every types, I'll do the bulkier variations of Zard X since I main that set.

The set looks like this:
Mega Charizard X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248HP/ 252SpD/ 8Spe
-Will-o-Wisp
-Dragon Claw
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
-Roost

Fire
: Bulky Zard X is only used as a counter to 2 things against fire- Zard Y (if it doesn't have dragon pulse) and Scarf Victini (providing it doesn't run zen headbutt). It cannot do much damage to Torkoal, Heatran and Infernape nukes it with a Close Combat as well as Entei with a Orbed Stone Edge

Steel: Yes you can wall a lot of things and burn it, but they will keep switching to Heatrans and since you don't have earthquake, you have to rely on double switches which is extremely annoying to play around.

Water: You can switch in on a greninja considering it's not Life Orbed and not mixed, otherwise you can't wall that. Slowbro, Swampert, Alomomola, Quagsire walls it easily and can cripple it with toxic/t-wave. Keldeo can easily do a huge number using Specs Hydro Pump. So therefore, not a good matchup.

Grass: Mega Venusaur can wall it easily, since you lack the power
0 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 134-162 (36.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and sash rock tomb breloom can hit it hard as well as Cradily and Skymin.

Dragon: The only thing you need bulkzard here, is to kill Goodras, Dragalge and tank Scarf Kyurem-B ice beam and dragon claw it back. Nothing else.

Fighting: You don't need Zard here, you, don't. Everything outspeeds you.

Psychic: Slowbro can easily switch in and cripple it, if they lost slowbro, Gallade and Mega Medicham can revenge kill it, otherwise, Zard X is dominant over here.

Dark: A burned Mega Tyranitar can 2hko it with stone edge, there's Greninjas to beam through the entire team, a Hydreigon to nuke you, a Mandibuzz to cripple you, an Umbreon to cripple you. I don't see how this match favours fly in anyway.

Ghost: This match is better for the flying user, you can switch into them for days (just be sure they don't cripple you) and you're cool. But watchout for sash Golurk which can hit really hard.

Fairy: You only switch in to Gardevoir and Clefable, nothing else, BD Azu kills it easily, Togehax, Mega Diancie will ravage through the team, and Slurpuff will destroy once BD up.

Poison: Unlike ArVaDa- I have a really hard time battling it, since I don't outspeed Nidoking it can easily destroy me and my core, really hard to play around it and with the wrong predictions you could be losing.

Electric: Best matchup for Zard X, I can sit there for days and wall everything coming out unless it's a Dragon Pulse from a Mega Ampharos or an Electivire. Also be wary of Sub CM Raikou if they set up on Zapdos, Zard cannot tank it.

Flying: This is a tricky one, you can come infront of Zapdos and Flare Blitz to obliterate the core, predict and burn the Landos and Dragos but requires a lot of prediction to do so.

Rock: No, just no, almost everything outspeeds you, if it don't they can easily kill you.

Ground: Zard is useless here since burning Gastrodons is so wonderful and Ground monos have so much Special Attackers that Zard can tank.

Bug: Zard is a solid counter to scarf Genesect here, and Volcarona depending on the set. It can cripple Scizor as well, but fears Heracross, Pinsir and Beedrills

Ice: Kyurem-W ravages through the core, especially if it's max speed life orbed, nothing much can be done here.

Normal: My lord you cannot kill Chansey+Pory core, unless you stack spikes with skarm and keep hitting until they break, or knock off their items. Zard is practically useless before that.

Therefore, Bulky Zard X is not overpowered as well since there are a lot of counters of it in the metagame and Charizard overall should not be banned because
1. It survived an entire generation without getting any buffs
2. Flying is the best balanced monotype but it's no way near broken

Special thanks to ArVaDa- and Crazy Horse for backing me up and standing up for Charizard X, which is so damn good, but not overpowered.
 
Thank you ArVaDa- for summing up the offensive Zard X against every types, I'll do the bulkier variations of Zard X since I main that set.

The set looks like this:
Mega Charizard X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248HP/ 252SpD/ 8Spe
-Will-o-Wisp
-Dragon Claw
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
-Roost
Fire: Bulky Zard X is only used as a counter to 2 things against fire- Zard Y (if it doesn't have dragon pulse) and Scarf Victini (providing it doesn't run zen headbutt). It cannot do much damage to Torkoal, Heatran and Infernape nukes it with a Close Combat as well as Entei with a Orbed Stone Edge

Steel: Yes you can wall a lot of things and burn it, but they will keep switching to Heatrans and since you don't have earthquake, you have to rely on double switches which is extremely annoying to play around.

Water: You can switch in on a greninja considering it's not Life Orbed and not mixed, otherwise you can't wall that. Slowbro, Swampert, Alomomola, Quagsire walls it easily and can cripple it with toxic/t-wave. Keldeo can easily do a huge number using Specs Hydro Pump. So therefore, not a good matchup.

Grass: Mega Venusaur can wall it easily, since you lack the power
0 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 134-162 (36.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and sash rock tomb breloom can hit it hard as well as Cradily and Skymin.

Dragon: The only thing you need bulkzard here, is to kill Goodras, Dragalge and tank Scarf Kyurem-B ice beam and dragon claw it back. Nothing else.

Fighting: You don't need Zard here, you, don't. Everything outspeeds you.

Psychic: Slowbro can easily switch in and cripple it, if they lost slowbro, Gallade and Mega Medicham can revenge kill it, otherwise, Zard X is dominant over here.

Dark: A burned Mega Tyranitar can 2hko it with stone edge, there's Greninjas to beam through the entire team, a Hydreigon to nuke you, a Mandibuzz to cripple you, an Umbreon to cripple you. I don't see how this match favours fly in anyway.

Ghost: This match is better for the flying user, you can switch into them for days (just be sure they don't cripple you) and you're cool. But watchout for sash Golurk which can hit really hard.

Fairy: You only switch in to Gardevoir and Clefable, nothing else, BD Azu kills it easily, Togehax, Mega Diancie will ravage through the team, and Slurpuff will destroy once BD up.

Poison: Unlike ArVaDa- I have a really hard time battling it, since I don't outspeed Nidoking it can easily destroy me and my core, really hard to play around it and with the wrong predictions you could be losing.

Electric: Best matchup for Zard X, I can sit there for days and wall everything coming out unless it's a Dragon Pulse from a Mega Ampharos or an Electivire. Also be wary of Sub CM Raikou if they set up on Zapdos, Zard cannot tank it.

Flying: This is a tricky one, you can come infront of Zapdos and Flare Blitz to obliterate the core, predict and burn the Landos and Dragos but requires a lot of prediction to do so.

Rock: No, just no, almost everything outspeeds you, if it don't they can easily kill you.

Ground: Zard is useless here since burning Gastrodons is so wonderful and Ground monos have so much Special Attackers that Zard can tank.

Bug: Zard is a solid counter to scarf Genesect here, and Volcarona depending on the set. It can cripple Scizor as well, but fears Heracross, Pinsir and Beedrills

Ice: Kyurem-W ravages through the core, especially if it's max speed life orbed, nothing much can be done here.

Normal: My lord you cannot kill Chansey+Pory core, unless you stack spikes with skarm and keep hitting until they break, or knock off their items. Zard is practically useless before that.

Therefore, Bulky Zard X is not overpowered as well since there are a lot of counters of it in the metagame and Charizard overall should not be banned because
1. It survived an entire generation without getting any buffs
2. Flying is the best balanced monotype but it's no way near broken

Special thanks to ArVaDa- and Crazy Horse for backing me up and standing up for Charizard X, which is so damn good, but not overpowered.
To be clear, I never said Zard-X was OP. I just said it would interesting if it was banned .3.
 
Technically, if we unbanned Arceus for every type, you could argue that it's diversity and wide range of viable sets could make the metagame more interesting o3o (obviously, I'm not saying unban Arceus)
Also, I agree that Zard X is not banworthy just because it is good, and takes BoltBeam pretty well. It is either another dangerous late game set up sweeper, or another bulky mon (Bisharp/Moxie Scarfcross are also good late game set up sweepers, and Chansey/Hippowdon are good bulky Mons, but they aren't banworthy either).
 
Arifeen and Arvada great posts. My biggest problem about Zard X is simply how well it completes flying. I don't dislike Zard X but the fact that it is on flying which already has a huge repertoir of mons at its disposal. Zard X itself is not broken, but the coverage and support it gives to flying is incredible. Currently I see flying, water, and steel at an advantage over other types simply because of the amount of powerful top rank mons at their disposal. I really don't see a good way to fix this problem however, I'm still working at monotype and these three types are very powerful.
I'm not saying we should ban Zard X but i'm curious to see what the metagame would be without it.

On to newer matters. Greninja, this thing should be suspected on water on water because of its incredible coverage and threat to monotype. It's late i'll post more on this guy tomorrow.
Keep Changing Monotype!
 
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Okay, the "don't ban Char X" has been beaten. I haven't seen a lot of pro-don't ban MeGallade posts. Figured I would write one.

First of all, as a disclaimer, I believe Mega Gallade can be broken. However, a couple conditions have to be met.

First,
it needs Swords Dance or a similar setup move? Why? Mega Gallade simply doesn't have the ridiculous raw stopping power people make it out to have. Yes, 165 base attack is quite nice. That's all well and dandy until you consider: "What has the natural bulk/investment capability to eat this?" Many things do, provided it's not weak to Close Combat (although if you honestly expect something to live a CC from this that's kind of stupid, for lack of a better word. That's like expecting Dragon types to eat Kyurem-Black's Outrage.) I'm going to use Mawile (normal, not mega) as an example.

Also, from here on out in general, I will be assuming a non-setup Mega Gallade for purposes of explanation unless I state the Gallade is indeed setup.
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Okay, Mega Gallade has a 25% chance to OHKO. That's nice. But we have to remember, Mawile has 50 Base HP and 85 Base Defense, which puts it in the defense tier of a Lucario aka the Frail as Fuck tier, and yet Gallade fails to OHKO with its strongest STAB. This tells us that Gallade's raw power actually comes from taking advantage of coverage and super effective moves, which returns us to my You're not eating Outrage from Kyu-B as a Dragon argument. Don't expect your Fighting types to live STAB Psycho Cuts. They won't. Just like you shouldn't bank on your Fighting types eating Zen Headbutt from a Mega Metagross. They won't.

The next condition for brokenness is proper team support. Before we go over this, let's look at Mega Gallade's stats:
BZFGuWb.png

We can see Mega Gallade also has, quite frankly, bad natural bulk. Despite decent and solid Defense and Special Defense respectively, a low HP stat can make or break a Pokemon. It's typing does it little favors, with resistances to Fighting and Rock (which are move types you probably won't be using vs the respective types Gallade is on,) with a weakness to Ghost, Flying, and Fairy, and neutrality to everything else. When we combine these two factors together, it means Gallade is going to be wounded from any attacks it takes; it's a glass cannon. And with a glass cannon, unless it is intrinsically broken, which Gallade is not, you require proper team support. I'll examine the aspects of the support each type can give Mega Gallade.

Fighting
Fighting is a great type known for strong physical attacks and great offensive pressure, but severely lacking in defensive pressure. With access to powerhouses like Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, Infernape, and yes, Mega Gallade, it's famed for that offensive pressure. On the defensive side, Fighting has few boons. Cobalion, Conkeldurr, and Scrafty(ish) make up what Fighting can effectively utilize defensively. Even then, Cobalion is often the only dedicated wall, which is rather specially weak, and Conk and Scrafty are often relegated to Bulky Offense. All of these defense mons have decent Physical Defense, but are left lacking in Special Defense, with Scrafty still being decent, which leads me to my next point here.
KC25k8o.png

So looking here, we can see a pure fighting type has weaknesses to Psychic, Flying, and Fairy, and resistances to Bug, Dark, and Rock. Two of its weaknesses, Fairy and Psychic, are not only prominent coverage types but are predominantly special, meaning you can't abuse that Physical bulk you have. Sure, Cobalion is neutral to both, but Cobalion has no natural recovery, has poor-okayish special defense, and the Steel typing does Cobalion few favors in terms of weakness pressure, as it gains weaknesses to 3 of the most common attacking types.
Speaking of weaknesses, dual typings with the Fighting type are typically weakness heavy, but also resistance heavy. More importantly, few dual typings will alleviate the natural weaknesses of fighting, meaning you often end up with a moshpit of the weaknesses (and resistances) of the two types. Take, for example, Terrakion, one of the precious few Flying neutrailities in Fighting. What does it do get this Fighting neutrality? It exchanges it. For 5 weaknesses. To make this weakness situation worse, the common Fighting types often end up with extra shared weaknesses, and still no neutrality to Psychic or Fairy, the main bane. Scrafty may take Psychic moves, but it can't eat Fairy for shit. Compile that with low speed, and you really need to hope the opponent doesn't have DGleam.
Fighting also has very poor natural recovery, often relying on Drain Punch, which will really only help vs things you are already advantaged against.
Fighting also has few team support options. Aside from Spore on Breloom and Thunder Wave on Cobalion, you rarely see status, and hazard clearing (not a big need excluding with webs) is pretty restricted as well.
So where am I going with all of this? Considering how Mega Gallade cannot take hits, you need switchins, something Fighting simply cannot provide for Mega Gallade due to it being such an offensively oriented type. Something has to take that Para, or eat that DGleam or take that Will-o. Sure, you could try to keep up offensive pressure, and frankly, that's a great argument, but that disregards clean switches into huge threats or things actually taking a hit. For example, lets return to Mawile. Mawile can eat the strongest CC on Fighting. Consider intimidate, and you have an almost guaranteed Play Rough and (maybe) KO for the Mawile user. What this is doing is it's creating situations where something must die or be crippled, which can break a Hyperoffensive team completely. This situation isn't terribly hard to setup and can be done with a variety of typings. Sableye, Mawile, Skarmory, Weezing, Lanturn, Rotom-Wash, just to begin the list.
To finish this part off, Fighting doesn't have the defensive capability nor the support cabability to be able to support Mega Gallade really well.

Psychic
Where do I start? Psychic is known for being one of the most versatile, powerful, and, in my opinion potentially broken types in the metagame. With access to Megas like Megagross, MeGallade, and Mega Yoga Pants, and other hard hitters like Latios, Gardevoir, Victini, and Alakazam, it's able to keep up offensive pressure with ease. On the defensive and supportive side, Psychic has access to some of the most formidable pokemon in the Metagame like Slowbro, Mew, Latias, Jirachi, hell, even Wobbuffet. I doubt I need to explain the merits of such a wide and powerful selection of Pokemon. So what sets Psychic apart from Fighting in the support game?
Offensively, Metagross, Victini, and Latios all hit hard and fast. V-Create and Draco Meteor are known to be OHKO machines. Metagross uses its higher bulk to utilize sets like a Weakness Policy set, and/or bulky offensive, with access to priority Bullet Punch and other bruising moves. While I wouldn't say Psychic is as great in the Offensive game as Fighting, it's certainly good enough combined with the other aspect:
Defensively and supportively, Psychic takes the cake as potentially the best type. Slowbro is a fantastic physical wall. Mew's vast movepool allows it to perform a variety of functions including physical defense, and full support. Latias has Wishing out the wazoo, Jirachi is a hax god. Meloetta provides the singular most valuable typing niche of all: immunity to Ghost.
How do all of these Pokemon work in conjunction with Mega Gallade? First of all, Mega Gallade actually has switchins! Meloetta can take ghost moves, and Metagross is a fantastic partner for Fairy and Flying type beatdown. Slowbro and Mew can both eat hits and deal out the status critical for lowering the speed tier (para) or attack power (burn) of an enemy with ease. Gardevoir handles Sableye. Latias can provide health for Mega Gallade should it be injured. Both Mew and Latias can remove status conditions from Gallade and help it return to the battlefield in peak condition, ready to rip you a new one. Nearly all of these commodities are things Fighting simply doesn't have the luxury to have.
Bottom line: Psychic has ludicrous team support that easily complements Mega Gallade to give it the potential to become broken.

The third, and final, condition for brokenness is coverage to kill everything you can't. Mega Gallade has access to a solid movepool; however, you typically see the same general skeleton of
Mega Gallade
Jolly
252 atk, 252 spe
-Swords Dance
-Close Combat/Drain Punch
-Psycho Cut/Ice Punch/Knock Off/ Shadow Sneak
-Psycho Cut/Ice Punch/Knock Off/ Shadow Sneak

So as we can see here, Mega Gallade has 2 moveslots taken up by SD and a Fighting STAB of your choice. That leaves you with 2 moveslots, and 4 moves. What do? This is a very good example of 4MSS or 4 Moveslot Syndrome. Mega Gallade has the potential to eat through the whole metagame, but cannot do so with a single set. It has to chose the coverage options that are best for the team. Just with this, considering nothing else, the maximum number of types Gallade can hit super effectively is 11 (the combination of Fighting, Psychic, and Ice, which not everybody runs.) More often than not, on fighting, Gallades have Psycho Cut, which is indispensable for Poison, and Knock Off, for extra coverage on Psychic types to abuse neutrality and utility in general. These moves, with the exception of Psycho Cut, are often redundant coverage. Many Fighting types have access to Ice Punch and Knock off, leaving Psycho Cut as the niche coverage type. On Psychic, Knock off, a rarer commodity, Ice Punch, and Shadow Sneak are all common.

As an individual Pokemon. Mega Gallade has great potential. It's the definition of a glass cannon setup sweeper, possessing the setup and coverage needed to wail on 11 types and sweep. On the flip side, Mega Gallade runs for the school nurse when anything faster or stronger or capable of taking a hit. Also, smacking Mega Gallade with the ban hammer because it "Set up and swept you" is a bad argument. All setup sweepers do that. If you play in such a way that allows the opponent to set up their sweeper, that's a fault in your battle, not the brokenness of the pokemon. Now, being able to set up on everything is broken, I won't lie. Many setup sweepers are able to setup on a good portion of the metagame due to factors like typing, bulk, ability, or support. Notable examples are Char-X and Dragonite, both great setup sweepers that can set up in a large variety of situations. Mega Gallade doesn't share that trait. Its typing is meh-ok at best, its ability is super niche, the bulk is negligent, and that leads us to the fourth: support. Psychic can support Gallade to give it great opportunities to setup. Fighting on the other hand, cannot. The way Fighting does things, even with Mega Gallade, reminds me of the Kamikaze fighters of Japan. You go in, you fight until you die, or somebody who dies slightly less takes a bullet for you and you can go in and fight to the death another day. That's not really a great way to get setup opportunities.

tl;dr Mega Gallade possesses qualities that can make it broken through a combination of its stats and movepool, but requires support to fully unlock its potential. Fighting does not possess the capability to do so, but Psychic, with its godly support game, can bring out and exploit Mega Gallade's potential to the fullest. As such I feel a Typeban on Psychic, maybe suspect on Fighting is the best course on action when dealing with Mega Gallade.
 
I honestly hate that I have to say this because it's just sad that it's come to this point, but this thread is for discussing the Monotype metagame. If you disagree with someone and want to present an argument as to why you disagree, that is acceptable and encouraged as long as you do it respectfully. I don't want to overstep my boundaries, but this needs to be said: If you're looking to simply insult someone because you think they're inferior to you, I suggest you go somewhere else. You're not welcome here.

That being said, I think it's safe to say that there is very little that hasn't been brought forward as an argument for or against the bans of Mega Charizard X, Kyurem-W, or Skymin. These topics have been debated TO DEATH. Now, I'm not saying the debating needs to stop. That would defeat the purpose of this thread. But if we're going to continue to debate these topics, it needs to be more controlled and less idiotic.

Now a few posts were made in response to Eevee General 's mini project, but they only scratched the surface.

ok guys, the discussion about suspects is getting a bit exhausting and we seem to be reiterating the same points over and over again, with slight different twists, so this should provide an interesting change of direction. I present to you...
Other Metas Mobile Research Laboratory
pikachu_phd.png

What is this? It's a mini-project to spark discussion within the subject's thread instead of siphoning it off into a new thread somewhere else. Each week or so I'll post a new topic in a metagame or pet mod. Topics will vary from thread to thread, so make sure to check out each one to see if it's something you want to participate in. Plus, if it dies, at least there isn't an empty thread cluttering up the subforum. (intro by Eevee General)

Week 4 - Monotype
Topic: Monotype viability vs OU viability


In Monotype, you tend to see a mix of Pokemon on teams. You have your OU titans, dominant here as they are in standard tiers, but then you also see the unsung heroes, Pokemon that no-one in their right mind would use on a serious OU team but find their way onto Monotype teams thanks to unique traits that only they can provide for their team. The main question we'll be researching is what makes these Pokemon viable, among others.

-What factors make a pokemon viable in monotype?
-Are these factors significantly different from OU?
-If one type has access to many OU pokemon while another type has only one or two OU pokemon, does that automatically mean the first type is better?
-Is team cohesiveness more significant in monotype than it is in OU or is it equally important in both?

Bring us your examples of your unsung heroes, how they do work for you and try and answer the questions above if possible, I look forward to seeing some of the stuff you come up with!

Credit to Acast for the topic idea and the questions, and Eevee General for the project in the first place c:

Monotype is an amazing metagame and arguably the most popular OM. There has to be a reason for that. So why don't we try to figure that out as a community?
I'm going to add on a few more questions to the original post:

-If you originally came from the OU metagame, does battling in Monotype change the way you see strategy? After experiencing monotype, did you battle differently in OU? If so, how and why do you think so?
-What makes Monotype so popular compared to most of the other OMs? Or am I just living in a fantasy world in which I imagine Monotype is the most popular OM

I'm honestly quite curious what anyone has to say in response to these questions.
 
-If you originally came from the OU metagame, does battling in Monotype change the way you see strategy? After experiencing monotype, did you battle differently in OU? If so, how and why do you think so?
-What makes Monotype so popular compared to most of the other OMs? Or am I just living in a fantasy world in which I imagine Monotype is the most popular OM

I'm honestly quite curious what anyone has to say in response to these questions.
So I played on pokelab in 4th gen and one day a drunken moderator started a monotype tournament out of nowhere (I'm pretty sure it didn't have it's own ladder) and I won that game using a poison team with the finals against the moderator. And literally the next day, the moderator was bragging to others about how good he was at monotype and I (somewhat rudely) pointed out I had beat him yesterday, at which he said something like "I play so much I can't remember" and then we had a showmatch that we linked almost everyone online in, and for some reason we ended up using the same teams and I won again. You can basically say I was hooked from there.

Monotype has the smallest learning curve of all the OMs since it has has restrictions that you could after all self impose on yourself while playing OU or even the RPG normally. Even though learning to get around our meta IS paramount, it's not as complicated as say, the potential sweeping and tanking ability of random pokemon in StabMons, or the very noob unfriendly unaware/moldbreaker/poison heal trinity in AAA, or the similar one in 1vs1. The basic framework of a battle is the same as in OU, so it doesn't rely on as much commitment to learn.

I mean, if I compared it to OU, it is shallower due to how many potentially (certainly with intelligent play) match up based games there are, which makes it far more annoying to play, otherwise there's no especial reason why not to play with the same mindset as in OU. Namely that the other guy is trying to beat me, and I mine as well expect him to use his best options (sometimes including expecting them to know what sets I have on pokemon I haven't switched into) until I've got him worked up from my reads and shit, at which point I can just play a more reactionary game.

The only thing to take back could be found in OU if you looked hard enough, but I guess it's about the second best place to learn what people expect your sets to be once you've flashed team preview at them, and eventually expose things like lando-t with reasonable accuracy based on its partners alone... If their team is reallly reallly needing the pivot support, it won't be a rockpolish or sd sweeper, and if they have some other pokemon that seemingly conflict with its role, then you can expect it to pull tricks up its sleeve.
 
I wish you all would stop calling scarfcross a good set up sweeper/a "check" to zard X. Any good flying player will know when to bring in Zard X vs a bug team to guarantee a clean +1. And yes, even if you have rocks up, a Zard X does have opportunities to come in and set up without risk. And once that set up is finished Zard X won't give a care about Heracross.

Not only that but the main way Scarfcross can hurt Zard X on flying is by using Stone edge. Giving Skarmory an easy switch in.

252+ Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 67-79 (20 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even if you decide to predict the switch and use CC skarm lives easily

252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 118-141 (35.3 - 42.2%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

But after that all Skarm has to do is either rocky helmet Hera to death or switch out to something that resists CC better. Oh and lets not forget lando-t

-1 252+ Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 85-101 (26.5 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Now this is all assuming rocks are up on Flying's side. And lets get real here for a minute. Flying's defog and defensive core is great at keeping rocks off the field. The opposing team has to play downright perfect to ensure not only that rocks get up, but they stay up too. Keeping rocks up for bugs vs flying is a huge uphill battle and honestly decides if you will be able to win or not in a lot of cases. And if rocks aren't up, then Zard X has even less to fear of Scarfcross, as it cannot even KO.

252+ Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 214-252 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 214-252 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And while this does give Bug the opportunity to come in with Mega Pinsir to revenge kill, Zard can always switch out to Skarm and heal up later. As a quick attack does nothing to Skarm. Leaving you down a Poke and still at a disadvantage.

Meanwhile Offensive Zard X, after its one set up can KO back with one D Claw.

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 361-426 (116 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Now granted Bulky Zard will have to run. But even that isn't a problem if you look back at my Skarm Calcs,

Yes, any good bug player needs to be aware of all of these risk and watch out for them, but that doesn't make the threat any less prevelant. You really have to be 3 steps ahead of a flying team with bug or it's game over. So please do not act like Scarfcross is a decent check that solves the whole problem for bug vs Zard X. Even Mega Pinsir can't do much to X once it is set up:

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 88-105 (29.6 - 35.3%) -- 17.9% chance to 3HKO

Also...Beedrill? Honestly? Not only does thing have NO way to counter the inevitable Skarm switch in, but it's will have a very difficult time hurting Zard X's of any kind.

252+ Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 136-162 (45.7 - 54.5%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO
= Set up fodder if no rocks.

252+ Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 136-162 (40.8 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
= Lol
 
Okay, the "don't ban Char X" has been beaten. I haven't seen a lot of pro-don't ban MeGallade posts. Figured I would write one.

First of all, as a disclaimer, I believe Mega Gallade can be broken. However, a couple conditions have to be met.
First, it needs Swords Dance or a similar setup move? Why? Mega Gallade simply doesn't have the ridiculous raw stopping power people make it out to have. Yes, 165 base attack is quite nice. That's all well and dandy until you consider: "What has the natural bulk/investment capability to eat this?" Many things do, provided it's not weak to Close Combat (although if you honestly expect something to live a CC from this that's kind of stupid, for lack of a better word. That's like expecting Dragon types to eat Kyurem-Black's Outrage.) I'm going to use Mawile (normal, not mega) as an example.

Also, from here on out in general, I will be assuming a non-setup Mega Gallade for purposes of explanation unless I state the Gallade is indeed setup.
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Okay, Mega Gallade has a 25% chance to OHKO. That's nice. But we have to remember, Mawile has 50 Base HP and 85 Base Defense, which puts it in the defense tier of a Lucario aka the Frail as Fuck tier, and yet Gallade fails to OHKO with its strongest STAB. This tells us that Gallade's raw power actually comes from taking advantage of coverage and super effective moves, which returns us to my You're not eating Outrage from Kyu-B as a Dragon argument. Don't expect your Fighting types to live STAB Psycho Cuts. They won't. Just like you shouldn't bank on your Fighting types eating Zen Headbutt from a Mega Metagross. They won't.

The next condition for brokenness is proper team support. Before we go over this, let's look at Mega Gallade's stats:
BZFGuWb.png

We can see Mega Gallade also has, quite frankly, bad natural bulk. Despite decent and solid Defense and Special Defense respectively, a low HP stat can make or break a Pokemon. It's typing does it little favors, with resistances to Fighting and Rock (which are move types you probably won't be using vs the respective types Gallade is on,) with a weakness to Ghost, Flying, and Fairy, and neutrality to everything else. When we combine these two factors together, it means Gallade is going to be wounded from any attacks it takes; it's a glass cannon. And with a glass cannon, unless it is intrinsically broken, which Gallade is not, you require proper team support. I'll examine the aspects of the support each type can give Mega Gallade.

Fighting
Fighting is a great type known for strong physical attacks and great offensive pressure, but severely lacking in defensive pressure. With access to powerhouses like Terrakion, Keldeo, Breloom, Infernape, and yes, Mega Gallade, it's famed for that offensive pressure. On the defensive side, Fighting has few boons. Cobalion, Conkeldurr, and Scrafty(ish) make up what Fighting can effectively utilize defensively. Even then, Cobalion is often the only dedicated wall, which is rather specially weak, and Conk and Scrafty are often relegated to Bulky Offense. All of these defense mons have decent Physical Defense, but are left lacking in Special Defense, with Scrafty still being decent, which leads me to my next point here.
KC25k8o.png

So looking here, we can see a pure fighting type has weaknesses to Psychic, Flying, and Fairy, and resistances to Bug, Dark, and Rock. Two of its weaknesses, Fairy and Psychic, are not only prominent coverage types but are predominantly special, meaning you can't abuse that Physical bulk you have. Sure, Cobalion is neutral to both, but Cobalion has no natural recovery, has poor-okayish special defense, and the Steel typing does Cobalion few favors in terms of weakness pressure, as it gains weaknesses to 3 of the most common attacking types.
Speaking of weaknesses, dual typings with the Fighting type are typically weakness heavy, but also resistance heavy. More importantly, few dual typings will alleviate the natural weaknesses of fighting, meaning you often end up with a moshpit of the weaknesses (and resistances) of the two types. Take, for example, Terrakion, one of the precious few Flying neutrailities in Fighting. What does it do get this Fighting neutrality? It exchanges it. For 5 weaknesses. To make this weakness situation worse, the common Fighting types often end up with extra shared weaknesses, and still no neutrality to Psychic or Fairy, the main bane. Scrafty may take Psychic moves, but it can't eat Fairy for shit. Compile that with low speed, and you really need to hope the opponent doesn't have DGleam.
Fighting also has very poor natural recovery, often relying on Drain Punch, which will really only help vs things you are already advantaged against.
Fighting also has few team support options. Aside from Spore on Breloom and Thunder Wave on Cobalion, you rarely see status, and hazard clearing (not a big need excluding with webs) is pretty restricted as well.
So where am I going with all of this? Considering how Mega Gallade cannot take hits, you need switchins, something Fighting simply cannot provide for Mega Gallade due to it being such an offensively oriented type. Something has to take that Para, or eat that DGleam or take that Will-o. Sure, you could try to keep up offensive pressure, and frankly, that's a great argument, but that disregards clean switches into huge threats or things actually taking a hit. For example, lets return to Mawile. Mawile can eat the strongest CC on Fighting. Consider intimidate, and you have an almost guaranteed Play Rough and (maybe) KO for the Mawile user. What this is doing is it's creating situations where something must die or be crippled, which can break a Hyperoffensive team completely. This situation isn't terribly hard to setup and can be done with a variety of typings. Sableye, Mawile, Skarmory, Weezing, Lanturn, Rotom-Wash, just to begin the list.
To finish this part off, Fighting doesn't have the defensive capability nor the support cabability to be able to support Mega Gallade really well.

Psychic
Where do I start? Psychic is known for being one of the most versatile, powerful, and, in my opinion potentially broken types in the metagame. With access to Megas like Megagross, MeGallade, and Mega Yoga Pants, and other hard hitters like Latios, Gardevoir, Victini, and Alakazam, it's able to keep up offensive pressure with ease. On the defensive and supportive side, Psychic has access to some of the most formidable pokemon in the Metagame like Slowbro, Mew, Latias, Jirachi, hell, even Wobbuffet. I doubt I need to explain the merits of such a wide and powerful selection of Pokemon. So what sets Psychic apart from Fighting in the support game?
Offensively, Metagross, Victini, and Latios all hit hard and fast. V-Create and Draco Meteor are known to be OHKO machines. Metagross uses its higher bulk to utilize sets like a Weakness Policy set, and/or bulky offensive, with access to priority Bullet Punch and other bruising moves. While I wouldn't say Psychic is as great in the Offensive game as Fighting, it's certainly good enough combined with the other aspect:
Defensively and supportively, Psychic takes the cake as potentially the best type. Slowbro is a fantastic physical wall. Mew's vast movepool allows it to perform a variety of functions including physical defense, and full support. Latias has Wishing out the wazoo, Jirachi is a hax god. Meloetta provides the singular most valuable typing niche of all: immunity to Ghost.
How do all of these Pokemon work in conjunction with Mega Gallade? First of all, Mega Gallade actually has switchins! Meloetta can take ghost moves, and Metagross is a fantastic partner for Fairy and Flying type beatdown. Slowbro and Mew can both eat hits and deal out the status critical for lowering the speed tier (para) or attack power (burn) of an enemy with ease. Gardevoir handles Sableye. Latias can provide health for Mega Gallade should it be injured. Both Mew and Latias can remove status conditions from Gallade and help it return to the battlefield in peak condition, ready to rip you a new one. Nearly all of these commodities are things Fighting simply doesn't have the luxury to have.
Bottom line: Psychic has ludicrous team support that easily complements Mega Gallade to give it the potential to become broken.

The third, and final, condition for brokenness is coverage to kill everything you can't. Mega Gallade has access to a solid movepool; however, you typically see the same general skeleton of
Mega Gallade
Jolly
252 atk, 252 spe
-Swords Dance
-Close Combat/Drain Punch
-Psycho Cut/Ice Punch/Knock Off/ Shadow Sneak
-Psycho Cut/Ice Punch/Knock Off/ Shadow Sneak

So as we can see here, Mega Gallade has 2 moveslots taken up by SD and a Fighting STAB of your choice. That leaves you with 2 moveslots, and 4 moves. What do? This is a very good example of 4MSS or 4 Moveslot Syndrome. Mega Gallade has the potential to eat through the whole metagame, but cannot do so with a single set. It has to chose the coverage options that are best for the team. Just with this, considering nothing else, the maximum number of types Gallade can hit super effectively is 11 (the combination of Fighting, Psychic, and Ice, which not everybody runs.) More often than not, on fighting, Gallades have Psycho Cut, which is indispensable for Poison, and Knock Off, for extra coverage on Psychic types to abuse neutrality and utility in general. These moves, with the exception of Psycho Cut, are often redundant coverage. Many Fighting types have access to Ice Punch and Knock off, leaving Psycho Cut as the niche coverage type. On Psychic, Knock off, a rarer commodity, Ice Punch, and Shadow Sneak are all common.

As an individual Pokemon. Mega Gallade has great potential. It's the definition of a glass cannon setup sweeper, possessing the setup and coverage needed to wail on 11 types and sweep. On the flip side, Mega Gallade runs for the school nurse when anything faster or stronger or capable of taking a hit. Also, smacking Mega Gallade with the ban hammer because it "Set up and swept you" is a bad argument. All setup sweepers do that. If you play in such a way that allows the opponent to set up their sweeper, that's a fault in your battle, not the brokenness of the pokemon. Now, being able to set up on everything is broken, I won't lie. Many setup sweepers are able to setup on a good portion of the metagame due to factors like typing, bulk, ability, or support. Notable examples are Char-X and Dragonite, both great setup sweepers that can set up in a large variety of situations. Mega Gallade doesn't share that trait. Its typing is meh-ok at best, its ability is super niche, the bulk is negligent, and that leads us to the fourth: support. Psychic can support Gallade to give it great opportunities to setup. Fighting on the other hand, cannot. The way Fighting does things, even with Mega Gallade, reminds me of the Kamikaze fighters of Japan. You go in, you fight until you die, or somebody who dies slightly less takes a bullet for you and you can go in and fight to the death another day. That's not really a great way to get setup opportunities.

tl;dr Mega Gallade possesses qualities that can make it broken through a combination of its stats and movepool, but requires support to fully unlock its potential. Fighting does not possess the capability to do so, but Psychic, with its godly support game, can bring out and exploit Mega Gallade's potential to the fullest. As such I feel a Typeban on Psychic, maybe suspect on Fighting is the best course on action when dealing with Mega Gallade.
Ok, let's go through these points in order. Firstly, yes Mega Gallade needs a setup move. I fail to see the problem with this, however, as it's a very strong and intimidating poke that can easily find an opportunity to get off a swords dance. Of course it doesn't sweep without setup, if it did that'd be rediculously broken. But it gets plenty of opportunities to get to +2, at which point things fall over if it looks at them hard. This is because it's a setup sweeper. It's not a weakness, it's just called "not running choice band on every single one of your pokemon". Mega Medicham is a wallbreaker, it KOs stuff then switches out. Mega Gallade is a sweeper, it sets up then KOs everything on the opposing team. Both do their respective jobs very well.

Next, I hate to break this to you, but Mega Gallade does not have particularly weak defenses. Sure, it likes having a nice switch, but then it can often force switches itself, allowing it to set up more easily. And more, your claim that it won't get a nice switch-in on fighting teams is nonsense. A good heavy offense team, as most fighting teams are, force switches pretty much every turn. Keldeo's in? Better switch to your keldeo counter. What do you know? Now the fighting team's gone to terrakion, and you've got to switch to your terrakion counter. Their ability to not only overpower most walls, but also speedcreep base 100 speeds so that offensive pokemon are forced to switch out, means that there are absolutely 0 problems with them forcing switches the vast majority of the time, especially if they predict well. If you predict badly then you'll always be on the back foot, sure, but then you can expect to be losing if you don't predict well. That's how the game works.

For example, let's say Mega Gallade's on a fighting team facing a ground team. They predict you to switch to conkeldurr so switch to Landorus. You predict this and instead go to Gallade. I should point out, at this point, that Landorus is one of the best wallbreakers in the game. Any mon with paper-thin defenses would be utterly destroyed by it. Instead, M-Gallade tanks the earth power, taking 85% max, and gets to +2. Now, most M-Gallade that I see run CC/Knock off or Shadow Sneak/Ice Punch. It misses out on the psychic STAB, but the coverage is very nice, with only Azumarill not being hit at least neutrally. At this point, your opponent is pretty much forced to sack hippowdon then bring in exca to force you out. If you've already taken care of either one of those pokemon, which is pretty much what the rest of the team is there for, then you've won. So no, M-Gallade isn't frail, and no, M-Gallade isn't weak either. If only one of those two pokemon is fainted, it can set up on a wallbreaker then sweep the whole team.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the fact it can sweep ground after either Hippo or Exca have been dealt with makes it broken. I am saying, however, that the example I gave showed those things you said were wrong. And ground is a neutral type, which moreover is a reasonably strong type boasting a good defensive core (hippo/gastro), a great sweeper in sand rush exca, and I'd argue the best wallbreaker in the game in the form of lando-i. And there's types that it does a whole load of damage to. For example, Rock and Ice struggle with fighting enough as it is, but having this sweeper busting through them as well just makes it even worse. Just a little glimpse at its damage output:
+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 270-319 (78.4 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. Mega aggron is the best absorber of physical hits there is, and even though it's super effective that can easily OHKO after only a little prior damage.

4mss can be annoying, but generally if in doubt CC/Knock off/Ice Punch/Swords Dance will do the job well, and if you've already got enough coverage for one of those things you can always change one up. I won't go through what teams it does well against because Nani Man did that a while ago, but this pokemon is simply extremely effective in the current metagame, to the point where stopping a sweep can be extremely difficult.
 
I wish you all would stop calling scarfcross a good set up sweeper/a "check" to zard X. Any good flying player will know when to bring in Zard X vs a bug team to guarantee a clean +1. And yes, even if you have rocks up, a Zard X does have opportunities to come in and set up without risk. And once that set up is finished Zard X won't give a care about Heracross.

Not only that but the main way Scarfcross can hurt Zard X on flying is by using Stone edge. Giving Skarmory an easy switch in.

252+ Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 67-79 (20 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even if you decide to predict the switch and use CC skarm lives easily

252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 118-141 (35.3 - 42.2%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

But after that all Skarm has to do is either rocky helmet Hera to death or switch out to something that resists CC better. Oh and lets not forget lando-t

-1 252+ Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 85-101 (26.5 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Now this is all assuming rocks are up on Flying's side. And lets get real here for a minute. Flying's defog and defensive core is great at keeping rocks off the field. The opposing team has to play downright perfect to ensure not only that rocks get up, but they stay up too. Keeping rocks up for bugs vs flying is a huge uphill battle and honestly decides if you will be able to win or not in a lot of cases. And if rocks aren't up, then Zard X has even less to fear of Scarfcross, as it cannot even KO.

252+ Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 214-252 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 214-252 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And while this does give Bug the opportunity to come in with Mega Pinsir to revenge kill, Zard can always switch out to Skarm and heal up later. As a quick attack does nothing to Skarm. Leaving you down a Poke and still at a disadvantage.

Meanwhile Offensive Zard X, after its one set up can KO back with one D Claw.

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 361-426 (116 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Now granted Bulky Zard will have to run. But even that isn't a problem if you look back at my Skarm Calcs,

Yes, any good bug player needs to be aware of all of these risk and watch out for them, but that doesn't make the threat any less prevelant. You really have to be 3 steps ahead of a flying team with bug or it's game over. So please do not act like Scarfcross is a decent check that solves the whole problem for bug vs Zard X. Even Mega Pinsir can't do much to X once it is set up:

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 88-105 (29.6 - 35.3%) -- 17.9% chance to 3HKO

Also...Beedrill? Honestly? Not only does thing have NO way to counter the inevitable Skarm switch in, but it's will have a very difficult time hurting Zard X's of any kind.

252+ Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 136-162 (45.7 - 54.5%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO
= Set up fodder if no rocks.

252+ Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 136-162 (40.8 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
= Lol
This is completely true, no idea who brought this up anyways lol.
You forgot Bulky Lando-T. I personally enjoy bringing him in against Scarf Hera since I can U-turn out or set up Rocks if they aren't up already.

You also got the Beedrill calc wrong. Try this:

252+ Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (65.3 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 144 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
This is completely true, no idea who brought this up anyways lol.
You forgot Bulky Lando-T. I personally enjoy bringing him in against Scarf Hera since I can U-turn out or set up Rocks if they aren't up already.

You also got the Beedrill calc wrong. Try this:

252+ Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (65.3 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 144 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Most people run that jolly, not adamant, so...
252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 178-210 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Beedrill Drill Run vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 178-210 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So, assuming Charizard got the mega before rocks, you generally won't OHKO without crit. If rocks are up first, rip Charizard. Although if you feel brave you can predict the drill run and set up. Side note, beedrill will ohko base form bulkdance zard after rocks with poison jab, so predicts OP.
 
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Tbf, people are talking about pokemon making matches lopsided but defending the existence of Mega Sableye. The win/loss of Ghost is incredibly lopsided and Sableye isn't repairing it. Not only is the thing miserable to play against, not what brings people to the tier.
First, off, this thing is adorabruh. Don't deny it.
Mega_Sableye.png

Second off, Tbh the Calm Mind Mega-Sableye set, while miserable to play against, is simply bad for ghost to run. It takes so many turns to set up and sweep that it becomes statistically likely that sableye will be critted, flinched, or otherwise haxed.

Besides the greatest utility Mega-Sableye offers ghost is it's ability, magic bounce, which offers ghost the hazard control and anti-stall measures it's always lacked. A Defensive Support Mega-Sableye with moves like foul play or knock off offers far more to mono-ghost teams than the overrated Calm Mind Set IMO.
 
First, off, this thing is adorabruh. Don't deny it.
Mega_Sableye.png

Second off, Tbh the Calm Mind Mega-Sableye set, while miserable to play against, is simply bad for ghost to run. It takes so many turns to set up and sweep that it becomes statistically likely that sableye will be critted, flinched, or otherwise haxed.

Besides the greatest utility Mega-Sableye offers ghost is it's ability, magic bounce, which offers ghost the hazard control and anti-stall measures it's always lacked. A Defensive Support Mega-Sableye with moves like foul play or knock off offers far more to mono-ghost teams than the overrated Calm Mind Set IMO.

LOLGODDANGIT I TOLD THIS THING TO STOP SAVING THAT LINE, I DIDN'T WANT TO POST IT!!!

Sorry, I've just deleted that line from here, like, five times and it wouldn't go away. I thought it was gone. ;~; I'm sowwwy.
 
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