Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 161-189 (44.7 - 52.5%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Standard Florges doesn't even really counter CB Heracross lol
Why is Vaporeon ranked higher than Alomomola on the viability thread? What in UU makes it so that Vap is actually better than Alo when Alo completely outclasses Vap in OU?
Alomomola's niche in both OU and UU is mostly on stall teams as a wall that explicitly does not inflict damage outside of status; Vaporeon's use in UU is primarily on balanced and bulky offense teams that appreciate the Wish support but don't really want to give up offensive pressure for it (Vaporeon's 110 SpA is high enough uninvested to do meaningful damage with neutral Scalds and super-effective Ice Beams; meanwhile, Alomomola rarely even achieves 3hko's against frailer threats in the tier).
Alomomola's niche in both OU and UU is mostly on stall teams as a wall that explicitly does not inflict damage outside of status; Vaporeon's use in UU is primarily on balanced and bulky offense teams that appreciate the Wish support but don't really want to give up offensive pressure for it (Vaporeon's 110 SpA is high enough uninvested to do meaningful damage with neutral Scalds and super-effective Ice Beams; meanwhile, Alomomola rarely even achieves 3hko's against frailer threats in the tier).
^. Vape has access to both ice beam and scald, along with a few other moves that give it more of a versatile role then alomomola. Like you said, Vape fits nicely on more HO focused or Bulk Aggro focused teams. I've been in love with vape for a whole, I can say from experience it's easier and more viable then Almomola in a few small but important ways.
Thanks guys, I'm primarily an OU player and when it comes to lower tiers I've dabbled with UU the least so I was confused about the vaporeon/alomomola thing.
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 161-189 (44.7 - 52.5%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Standard Florges doesn't even really counter CB Heracross lol
If the old standard Florges can't handle CB Heracross, then we have to make it fit the new metagame:
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 144-169 (40 - 46.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
In a metagame with Pokemon like Heracross, Salamence*, Play Rough Mega Absol, Mega Sharpedo, and many other physical attackers, the old standard set can be easily overwhelmed.
*Iron Tail wrecks any Florges set, but Bold Florges takes Life Orb EQ much better.
If the old standard Florges can't handle CB Heracross, then we have to make it fit the new metagame:
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 144-169 (40 - 46.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
In a metagame with Pokemon like Heracross, Salamence*, Play Rough Mega Absol, Mega Sharpedo, and many other physical attackers, the old standard set can be easily overwhelmed.
*Iron Tail wrecks any Florges set, but Bold Florges takes Life Orb EQ much better.
Outspeeding Scarf Mienshao is too good to ignore, specially for a Pokemon OHKOed by HJK. Rock Polish Tyrantrum should run Jolly.
CB Tyrantrum has an awkward Speed tier. Adamant is able to easily outspeed most walls, but far too slow to outspeed most offensive threats. I would run Adamant CB Tyrantrum because it does a lot more damage, but if you are really worried about extremely fast Nidoqueen / Mega Blastoise, you can run Jolly.
Note that I'm assuming 252 Speed EVs here, because that's what I'd use. You can run slightly less Speed in both sets to get some bulk investment, but if you aren't running near max Speed, Tyrantrum becomes too slow to be effective.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 196-232 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 144-169 (40 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Shadow Ball doesn't 2HKO healthy Florges, but Chandelure has absolutely no reason to not keep spamming that move until it gets a well timed crit or Sdef drop, because Moonblast doesn't really threaten it.
Flash Cannon Hydra fails to 2HKO and Iron Tail does more to both sets
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 200-237 (55.5 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 135-161 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 153-182 (42.5 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 179-213 (49.7 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Assuming Hydra predictins the Florges switch in, it needs SR to have a extremely slim chance of breaking through Protect Florges
Some other calcs:
252+ Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 139-165 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 156-184 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 134-159 (37.2 - 44.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 149-177 (41.3 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 199-235 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 161-190 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 224-264 (62.2 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 180-213 (50 - 59.1%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 144-169 (40 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 159-188 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 161-189 (44.7 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 179-211 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 288-340 (80 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 324-382 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 154-183 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 172-204 (47.7 - 56.6%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 102-121 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 91-108 (25.2 - 30%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 118-141 (32.7 - 39.1%) -- 11.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 133-157 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 105-124 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 124-147 (34.4 - 40.8%) -- 59.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 93-111 (25.8 - 30.8%) -- 4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 138-163 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 127-151 (35.2 - 41.9%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 114-135 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 142-168 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 159-187 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Significantly better at checking physical threats, while still being able to deal with special threats thanks to its great natural special bulk. In my opinion, this set is better in the current meta.
Outspeeding Scarf Mienshao is too good to ignore, specially for a Pokemon OHKOed by HJK. Rock Polish Tyrantrum should run Jolly.
CB Tyrantrum has an awkward Speed tier. Adamant is able to easily outspeed most walls, but far too slow to outspeed most offensive threats. I would run Adamant CB Tyrantrum because it does a lot more damage, but if you are really worried about extremely fast Nidoqueen / Mega Blastoise, you can run Jolly.
Note that I'm assuming 252 Speed EVs here, because that's what I'd use. You can run slightly less Speed in both sets to get some bulk investment, but if you aren't running near max Speed, Tyrantrum becomes too slow to be effective.
Specs Chandelure will break through it anyway
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 196-232 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 144-169 (40 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Shadow Ball doesn't 2HKO healthy Florges, but Chandelure has absolutely no reason to not keep spamming that move until it gets a well timed crit or Sdef drop, because Moonblast doesn't really threaten it.
Flash Cannon Hydra fails to 2HKO and Iron Tail does more to both sets
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 200-237 (55.5 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 135-161 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 153-182 (42.5 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 179-213 (49.7 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Assuming Hydra predictins the Florges switch in, it needs SR to have a extremely slim chance of breaking through Protect Florges
Some other calcs:
252+ Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 139-165 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 156-184 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 134-159 (37.2 - 44.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 149-177 (41.3 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 199-235 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 161-190 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 224-264 (62.2 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 180-213 (50 - 59.1%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 144-169 (40 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 159-188 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 161-189 (44.7 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 179-211 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 288-340 (80 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 324-382 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 154-183 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 172-204 (47.7 - 56.6%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 102-121 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 91-108 (25.2 - 30%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 118-141 (32.7 - 39.1%) -- 11.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 133-157 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 105-124 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 124-147 (34.4 - 40.8%) -- 59.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 93-111 (25.8 - 30.8%) -- 4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 138-163 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 127-151 (35.2 - 41.9%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 114-135 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 142-168 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 159-187 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Significantly better at checking physical threats, while still being able to deal with special threats thanks to its great natural special bulk. In my opinion, this set is better in the current meta.
[15:43] KingUU Hikari
[15:43] Hikari hi
[15:43] KingUU you here?
[15:43] Meru metal sound aggron!!
[15:43] KingUU responded to your super long cool post
[15:43] Hikari only for a couple min
[15:43] Hikari ok
[15:44] Finchinator meru
[15:44] Hikari the answer is because
[15:44] Hikari Aromatisse is slow as sin
[15:44] Hikari hits like a pussy
[15:44] Finchinator you should use
[15:44] Hikari and nowhere near as specially bulky as Florges
[15:44] Meru aromatisse doesn't wall blastoise
[15:44] Finchinator curse rest sleep talk roar aggron
[15:44] Meru that alone
[15:44] Finchinator best set.
[15:44] Meru is a huge negative
[15:44] Meru to me
[15:44] Meru that set is garbdix finch
[15:44] Finchinator nah.
[15:45] |<-- apt-get has left irc.synirc.net (Ping timeout: 360 seconds)
[15:45] Finchinator i know sam's team it'll 6-0 him
[15:46] Hikari Aromatisse also consistently loses to Ampharos
[15:46] Meru aromatisse was better in a meta forever ago
[15:46] radianthero156 yeah i also feel aromatisse is bad
[15:46] Meru now it's like
[15:46] Meru B-
[15:47] radianthero156 granbull is better
[15:47] radianthero156 o_O
[15:47] Hikari it has better physical bulk than Florges
[15:47] Meru like
[15:47] Meru aroma was better
[15:47] Hikari but it is worse everywhere else
[15:47] Meru when we had
[15:47] Meru sableye
[15:47] Hikari Aromatisse only niche is
[15:47] Hikari taunt immunity
[15:48] Meru higher pdef is a niche but
[15:48] Hikari which can be helpful in stallish teams
[15:48] Meru its not a rly abusable niche right now
[15:48] Meru esp since florg has synthesis now
[15:48] Meru so it can actually keep up with the pace of cb hera
Is there a place or thread that explains all the suspect testing stuff? I'd like to learn how to get reqs to vote and stuff but have no idea where to start.
GXE is your theoretical chance to win against a given opponent on the UU ladder. It's basically a weighted w/l recording, the more you win the higher it goes, especially if you are beating good players. On the other hand losing to bad players will drop your GXE quite a bit. COIL uses your GXE in combination with the number of games played to give you a weighted participation score. Based on the numbers being used, you need a minimum GXE of 62.6 to qualify (takes 1700 games at a GXE of 63 though). At a GXE of 70 it takes 122 games. To calculate your number of games, the op of the BP thread has a link with a bunch of #'s and GXE in a formula, click it and replace GXE with your GXE + change the 2400 to 2500 (cause Sam is bad and stole too much of the RU NP op).
Somewhere in comp discussion Antar has a thread about coil and GXE, check under all the metagames in that forum.
Basically you get reqs by playing and winning, I personally don't think its worth it unless you have a GXE over 79 (60 games) but that may just be me.
Is there a place or thread that explains all the suspect testing stuff? I'd like to learn how to get reqs to vote and stuff but have no idea where to start.
I meant like a guide to what all the coil and gxe stuff is
GXE is your theoretical chance to win against a given opponent on the UU ladder. It's basically a weighted w/l recording, the more you win the higher it goes, especially if you are beating good players. On the other hand losing to bad players will drop your GXE quite a bit. COIL uses your GXE in combination with the number of games played to give you a weighted participation score. Based on the numbers being used, you need a minimum GXE of 62.6 to qualify (takes 1700 games at a GXE of 63 though). At a GXE of 70 it takes 122 games. To calculate your number of games, the op of the BP thread has a link with a bunch of #'s and GXE in a formula, click it and replace GXE with your GXE + change the 2400 to 2500 (cause Sam is bad and stole too much of the RU NP op).
Somewhere in comp discussion Antar has a thread about coil and GXE, check under all the metagames in that forum.
Basically you get reqs by playing and winning, I personally don't think its worth it unless you have a GXE over 79 (60 games) but that may just be me.
Hello there, I have a quick question. Is Salamence still allowed in UU? I've lost the trace of tiering updates and I don't know anything about Salamence situation.
Hello there, I have a quick question. Is Salamence still allowed in UU? I've lost the trace of tiering updates and I don't know anything about Salamence situation.
Hey, I'm a bit new to UU, and I want to know what makes this tier different from all other tiers. Is it the Pokémon themselves, playstyles, suspect tests/bans, etc...? What makes UU unique?
UU has, for at least all of XY, been for lack of a better word ban-happy. Any Pokemon that might be broken has been put into BL so that there will never be an event in which broken Pokemon are keeping other broken Pokemon in check, which gives the illusion of a balanced metagame. Following that, they are retested one at a time to make sure that they are balanced in a vacuum. Several Pokemon have been banned, retested, found to not be broken, and subsequently fallen from grace (Hydreigon, Mega Houndoom), and so far it's been a system that has made UU supremely balanced. A lot of comparisons to late HGSS OU (a perennial favorite and paragon of balance) have been drawn, and for good reason. Every playstyle is viable in UU, and that's purely because every style has a number of great Pokemon that work togeter to make it work, with no singular OP strategy like DeoSharp holding up any single team.
For a very long time, UU did not run public suspect tests. What was allowed and what was banned was decided entirely by our tier leader(s) and the UU Council. We are currently running a public suspect test, but the only difference in tiering that we can expect is now us, the rank-and-file UU players, being able to make a mark on tiering decisions, instead of it being held solely by the UU Leaders and Council.
In my opinion, this is the single best tier I've ever played outside of HGSS OU, and I only started playing in the tailend of that, so welcome to the best tier ORAS has to offer, and I hope you enjoy your stay.
Before Magnezone was OU, why was it BL? It doesn't seem like it'd be too threatening in UU as there aren't as many steels aside from Forretress, Empoleon and Aggron - the latter of which beats it - and the fact Magneton is B - used to be B- - seems to speak volumes to me, not to mention that Magnezone doesn't particularly stick out as a powerhouse among many big threats in UU. Is there something I'm being really stupid about and missing, or...?