pif was right all along :[
also I disagree with Medicham to A, I might post the reason later.
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Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition
- Thread starter Molk
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also I disagree with Medicham to A, I might post the reason later.
And so was i
Mlix kicks ass, i'd support it for S too. Rocks+Roar on defensive Mlix is capable of phazing around and stacking damage on SR weak stuff that doesn't dare to stay in, it's pretty cool since he can 1v1 a lot of mons so you are more than likely not getting roared into something you want, and he can punish non-switches hard. Also, Toxic lets him catch bulky waters and such and ofc Toxic them which is damn helpful. does generic bulky steel stuff but with the ability to strike back and reject volt switch.
Curse is a god too
Mlix kicks ass, i'd support it for S too. Rocks+Roar on defensive Mlix is capable of phazing around and stacking damage on SR weak stuff that doesn't dare to stay in, it's pretty cool since he can 1v1 a lot of mons so you are more than likely not getting roared into something you want, and he can punish non-switches hard. Also, Toxic lets him catch bulky waters and such and ofc Toxic them which is damn helpful. does generic bulky steel stuff but with the ability to strike back and reject volt switch.
Curse is a god too
Straight up disrespect to Medicham. I support Mega Lix to S tho.
Torterra C+ --------> B/B-
Now this may sound stupid to some, But Torterra is quite viable in RU. The Banded Variation takes down alot of the walls in RU, For Example:
Aromatisse
Alomomola
it can even take care of some of the S rank Pokemon and higher viability Pokemon, I.E Cobalion, Mega-Glalie depending on the set, mega steelix also. its also quite a great revenge killer (it also sweeps magnemite so yeah) now its not because i love torterra with a fiery passion, it does not need all that much support, just a pokemon that can take ice and fire hits easily, so it doesn't need a lot of support, and it's only crippling flaw is its x 4 ice weakness, which may cripple it, but it does allow a lot of switch in possibilities, with most water types and houndoom in RU being perfect teammates, AND the only support it needs. other amazing teammates are anything fire type, and cobalion and glalie also work well, minus the fire weakness.
Now this may sound stupid to some, But Torterra is quite viable in RU. The Banded Variation takes down alot of the walls in RU, For Example:
Aromatisse
Code:
252+ Atk Choice Band Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 253-298 (62.3 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Torterra: 118-139 (31 - 36.5%) -- 64.7% chance to 3HKO
Code:
252+ Atk Choice Band Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 530-626 (105.7 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Torterra: 49-58 (12.8 - 15.2%) -- possible 7HKO
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i can't read your post, your avatar is far too obnoxious
I actually tried Torterra on this metagame (it's currently a pivotal member of my current team) and I must say, I'm impressed with the forgotten Sinnoh starter, though I kinda disagree for now that Torterra should be anywhere up C+. Moltres still roams around and is very common, limiting its viability lot (as well as for other Grass-types). Furthermore, it's very slow, meaning it will almost always have to take a hit before attacking. The crippling 4x Ice weakness is much more common and crippling than stated, and it's also weak to Fire, Flying and Bug, quite the common types in RU.
Though I can see Torterra going up after (if) Moltres gets kicked out of RU due a number of reasons other than "MOLTRES BANNED EVERY GRASS IS GUD NOW!!!!!1!1", right now it's not that impressive.
Agreeing with Mega-Steelix on S, Typhlosion is poop, dunno if Medicham should go up or not yet, Seismitoad should go to B, Mesprit should remain on B+ and if Slowking should move it should be only to A or A+ cause even though AV is shit the other sets are divine (especially Defensive sets), though that is only my opinion n_n
Though I can see Torterra going up after (if) Moltres gets kicked out of RU due a number of reasons other than "MOLTRES BANNED EVERY GRASS IS GUD NOW!!!!!1!1", right now it's not that impressive.
Agreeing with Mega-Steelix on S, Typhlosion is poop, dunno if Medicham should go up or not yet, Seismitoad should go to B, Mesprit should remain on B+ and if Slowking should move it should be only to A or A+ cause even though AV is shit the other sets are divine (especially Defensive sets), though that is only my opinion n_n
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The best Torterra set is by far, imo, SR Tank (SR/EQ/Synthesis/Wood Hammer[Toxic]), which probably should move up even with Moltres around. It can check a lot of common threats like Tyrantrum (can be EVed to avoid a 2HKO from Head Smash), Rhyperior, Mega Steelix, and SD Drapion, and distinguishes itself with reliable recovery, making it the only SR setter with a way to heal itself. It can't really defend its hazards well except against Skuntank, but its staying power makes up for that (it also avoids a OHKO from Hitmonlee :o). It also has a strong lead matchup against things like Qwilfish, Cobalion, Rhyperior, Steelix, etc., and also is one of the better Volt Switch blockers against Heliolisk and Jolteon. I think B- is pretty fair for it, considering the amount of utility, although sometimes situational, it can bring to a team.
well even with that, band is the one thing that can take down alot of the walls, so band should be atleast B imo, but there are much better stealth rockers in RU like cobalion, steelix-m, ect ect
And the Life Orb/Rock Polish set is extremely viable as at +2 it outspeeds everything up to Scarfed Delphox
Cinccino for D
Cinccino should be D or rank as it has no relevant niche anymore from what I have seen. First off is it lacks power even if life orb or choice band and because of this it struggles to get ko opponents and is easily ko'd back due to horrid bulk. Against any team with some bulk it pretty much falls flat on it's face. It's outclassed by quick feet ursaring which isn't even on the viability rankings which should tell you something. Finally even with knock off most ghosts laugh as it doesn't hit them hard enough. It also has no coverage to hit steels. For the reasons i stated cinccino should be D rank.
Cinccino should be D or rank as it has no relevant niche anymore from what I have seen. First off is it lacks power even if life orb or choice band and because of this it struggles to get ko opponents and is easily ko'd back due to horrid bulk. Against any team with some bulk it pretty much falls flat on it's face. It's outclassed by quick feet ursaring which isn't even on the viability rankings which should tell you something. Finally even with knock off most ghosts laugh as it doesn't hit them hard enough. It also has no coverage to hit steels. For the reasons i stated cinccino should be D rank.
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Please do D rank, we do not want that thing in the same rank as Ambishit
I edited and made it D rank. Cinccino's bad but not shitmonchan and ambishit awful.
I disagree with this, Cinccino still has enough of a niche to stay in C rank. Its ability to KO suicide hazard users without letting them setup any is quite nice. It has good base speed for RU, sitting at 115, as well as decent enough attack at 95. Its ability Skill Link, as well as the move pool to use it, is decent enough to put offensive pressure on offensively based teams so its not dead weight outside of its role of destroying suicide leads. It also makes use of Kings Rock to be an annoying little shit with somewhere in the 40%ish chance to flinch. It gets hard walled by Steel-types but has access to U-turn to get past this weakness and can cause momentum for its team acting as a revenge killer and forcing switches and U-turning out. It is no where near the best mon in RU but at the same time it is not D rank bad, I think it has a viable enough niche to stay in C rank.
Ambipom should be the same rank as Cinccino in my opinion. Low Kick is more useful than any coverage Cinccino gets, and they're both about equally terrible otherwise. Rock Blast and Bullet Seed just aren't that useful anymore, and LO Fake Out at least dents some relevant scarfers. It can't actually ohko any relevant suicide leads except Omastar even with a band, assuming Crustle is running 208 HP evs which is what I've been told to use.
I'm not saying Ambipom is good, but Cinccino is absolutely awful and the "Ambipom is the worst mon ever!!" meme is getting boring. Also Ambipom ALSO gets U-turn so that's not a strong point for one but not the other.
I'm not saying Ambipom is good, but Cinccino is absolutely awful and the "Ambipom is the worst mon ever!!" meme is getting boring. Also Ambipom ALSO gets U-turn so that's not a strong point for one but not the other.
Cincinno is not that good either, but at least it has a niche as in it is the only skill link user in the tier, and it can be a little shit through King's Rock, and Cinccino has U-Turn too. Ambipom, on the other hand, has no niche, and Low Kick doesn't fix that
Please don't mention king's rock .-.
King's Rock isn't a niche because you're so weak with it and Low Kick does a minimum of 63% to support cobalion which is legit. Also, Fake Out is a niche in itself and an actually useful one.
I'm not arguing Ambipom is ANY good but Cinccino is very, very bad and we need to stop defending it like it's not also hot garbage.
I'm not arguing Ambipom is ANY good but Cinccino is very, very bad and we need to stop defending it like it's not also hot garbage.
Cinccino might be bad but ambipom is awful.
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Can't we just make ambipom rank D or something already ? That would probably stop all discussion
Also, supporting steelix for S rank.
Also, supporting steelix for S rank.
I realize this will be a contested nomination, but I think that Emboar belongs in S rank. It is well known by now that the Choice Scarf set offers excellent utility as a late game sweeper and is an effective way to terrorize offensive teams. Were this the only good Emboar set then it probably would deserve the A+ rating sheerly based on it's efficacy in the regard. However, the fact of the matter is that Emboar has an exceedingly powerful Choice Band set as well alongside a more defensively oriented set that I've seen around with will-o-wisp to catch opponents off guard. The Choice Band set is easily up there with Pangoro as one of the most effective wallbreakers in the tier, as it manages to 2hko non physically defensive slowking as well as jellicent with flare blitz, both of which are used as checks and/or counters to offensive Emboars. Alomomola and non-choiced Moltres both can take an emboar STAB move, but wild charge is powerful enough to act as a deterrent (if the former is weakened). The primary argument against this would be recoil, which is seen as the major downside for Emboar, but for a wallbreaker this hardly matters when it'll get the needed damage/ko on the defensive mon to support other offensive pokemon. I can't speak for other Emboar sets, but the utility of these two sets make Emboar a serious threat against most teams, especially given that it can be difficult to know what set it is based on team preview.
I see the two primary arguments against Emboar being the recoil from Flare Blitz and Wild Charge as well as competition for the choice band set with Pangoro. The former is definitely a factor, but from experience it hardly matters given the utility of Emboar sets - Choice Scarf still does heavy damage to offensive teams whilst Choice Band isn't intended to be a lasting presence so much as take out the defensive glue of the opponent's team - something it simply needs to get in to do. And the fact that Emboar has different coverage, has sucker punch and can bluff Choice Scarf gives it a niche over Pangoro, which on paper can seem automatically better than Banded Emboar due to similar power with less recoil. This is not to say that they aren't weaknesses, but Emboar is potent enough in multiple roles as to belong with the premier pokemon in the tier.
In regards to Torterra, it is certainly can be an effective pokemon offensively and has a cool niche. However, from personal experience it has a really rough time switching in - the ground type isn't doing any favor and water types offer scald with can cripple it. This is problematic when common Pokemon can wall the only set with recovery and wood hammer has a lot of recoil. It's a neat Pokemon and an underrated one, but it shouldn't go higher than B-. I actually think C+ is still it's best fit, but I wouldn't be opposed to B- necessarily.
I see the two primary arguments against Emboar being the recoil from Flare Blitz and Wild Charge as well as competition for the choice band set with Pangoro. The former is definitely a factor, but from experience it hardly matters given the utility of Emboar sets - Choice Scarf still does heavy damage to offensive teams whilst Choice Band isn't intended to be a lasting presence so much as take out the defensive glue of the opponent's team - something it simply needs to get in to do. And the fact that Emboar has different coverage, has sucker punch and can bluff Choice Scarf gives it a niche over Pangoro, which on paper can seem automatically better than Banded Emboar due to similar power with less recoil. This is not to say that they aren't weaknesses, but Emboar is potent enough in multiple roles as to belong with the premier pokemon in the tier.
In regards to Torterra, it is certainly can be an effective pokemon offensively and has a cool niche. However, from personal experience it has a really rough time switching in - the ground type isn't doing any favor and water types offer scald with can cripple it. This is problematic when common Pokemon can wall the only set with recovery and wood hammer has a lot of recoil. It's a neat Pokemon and an underrated one, but it shouldn't go higher than B-. I actually think C+ is still it's best fit, but I wouldn't be opposed to B- necessarily.
I could see Emboar at S rank especially with the possible banning of Moltres and Pangoro. Recoil damage is a problem for it however if the Choice scarfed set is used then it functions more as a revenge killer than a Wallbreaker meaning you would only take small bits of damage at a time. However, it's movement does primarily depend on the results of the suspect test.
But to add to discussion, I think we should stop with this Ambipom stuff, it's getting old, we all know it's shit and doesn't deserve to be in RU at all, and Cincinno kinda doesn't either but at least it has a niche in the form of Skill Link, Ambipom has no niche, and before anybody says Fake Out no it is not a niche, because not only is it not the only fake out user in the tier but it's also a rather mediocre move
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If i'm being realistic, Cinccino does have a niche as a multi-attacker. It is one of the few things that can stop Crustle and Omastar dead in it's tracks. That niche is something that Cinccino can be proud of as it can effectively halt most suicide lead in the tier. The only problem is outside of being a counter towards Hazard Leads, Cinccino's use as an attacker is very niche. It's coverage is rather poor for a mon with Skill Link. Even if we were to bring in the ability to break subs and still attack, it is very situational trait to have. It is stopped by too many popular mons such as Cobalion, Amoonguss, M-Lix, and Cresselia. Also suicide leads aren't that popular outside of the uncommon Mespirit. But even with these bad traits, it has it's own thing that can be useful in the future if HO does get a resurgence again. It's enough for it to make it better than most D-Ranked pokmeon but, not much higher from there.
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Also I do agree on your stance on Cincinno, but you should probably also add that it is quite, even more frail than Amibpom, which is also not a good thing for it
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