Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition

[Froggyboy]

Agreeing with the above posts.
And since I have had this on my mind for a while now, might as well do it now.

to B or

to B+:
I feel one of these two need to happen, as I think Jolteon and Helioisk have the same viability. Both are fast, hard fitting electric types, but they each have a way to make them different and give reasons to use one over the other. Jolteon has the second highest unboosted speed tier, behind Accelgor, as well as great 110 SpA. Though what I believe to make it is lack of coverage. It has Shadow Ball, Hidden Power, and Signal Beam, making it pretty predictable. All you have to do is bring out a Cress or Eelektross and just wall it. Though it stills hits pretty hard and is crazy fast, I don't see it as B+ rank. But if it is, I then suggest that Helioisk move up to B+. My personal preference in a fast electric type, as it has secondary STAB, much better coverage, and looks much cooler. Its secondary STAB makes it harder to wall, and its plentiful coverage makes it unpredictable. Though with this, it has 4MSS, its normal type lets it get checked by Fighting types, and it has less bulk than Jolteon.
I just feel these two should be in the same rank, as I believe them to be of equal viability, thus being in the same rank, being either B or B+.

 

[Cowtao]

Skuntank for B+

Thanks to Gligar leaving, and the advent of more people using Punishment Skuntank, he is ready to advance up to a rank above or the same as Golbat. Being able to be a good stop towards boosting Reuniclus and Cresselia is a big thing. It also boasts it's own form of priority, being able to pursuit trap, and a very cool ability in Aftermath. The Sucker Punch / Aftermath combo is a very useful thing in riddling down pokemon using recoil moves or revenge killing frail attackers such as Emboar, Jolteon, and Braviary. Skuntank boasts great traits over it's competitor Golbat, as Skuntank doesn't struggle against one of the tier's premier walls, and as the actual offensive stats to attack things. I think after a few changes later, Skuntank is ready to ascend up. Don't get me wrong, Skuntank still has some problems that plagues a lot of today's defoggers nowadays such as being utterly stomped by Tyrantrum / M-Lix. But as a defogger, it has enough unique traits to be in the same rank, if not higher than Golbat's.

 

[Molk]

aight, gonna make a few updates

Updates

Tyrantrum moved up to A rank
Bronzong moved down to B rank
Qwilfish moved up to A- rank
Articuno added to C rank
Steelix (mega) moved up to A+ rank
Garbodor added to C rank
Emboar moved up to A+ rank
Cinccino moved down to C rank

I'm sort of unsure on all the electric types (jolteon, eel, heliolisk, and mowtom), as well as Cobalion (mainly because it's being proposed to S rank which is always something to be careful about), but i'd be willing to move them next update if they get enough support. :)

In particular i'd like to see some discussion on Cobalion and Omastar. Cobalion because it was nominated for S rank by galbia/Don Honchkrorleone, and Omastar because i feel like its niche as a suicide lead has diminished a bit considering one of its main draws was that it was a suicide lead that could easily get past Gligar with a powerful Ice Beam, who of course no longer exists in the tier. Not to mention that fellow suicide lead Crustle now has access to Custap Berry once again. Of course, suicide lead Omastar still isn't *terrible*, and even outside of just setting hazards it still has say Shell Smash going for it, but i feel like a move down to B rank might be worth considering.

 

[Swagodile]

Cobalion still remains the best offensive Stealth Rock user in the tier, but I don't feel that it's S Rank-worthy. It's fine where it is.

And yes, move Omastar down a rank and Crustle up one.

 

[Froggyboy]

The only thing I believe to hold Cobalion from S Rank are the S-Ranks that are already there. Cress walls all Cobalion sets iirc, Pangoro is a nice revenge killer of it, and Moltres is a solid check to it. But with the suspect, Panda and Moltres may go, or may not. So I say we wait until the suspect is over to decide its ranking.
And I only nominated Jolteon to B or Heliolisk to B+, nothing to do with Eel or Mowtom. But I just feel Jolt and Helio are comparable in so many ways, that they need to be in the same rank.

 

[atomicllamas]

The only thing I believe to hold Cobalion from S Rank are the S-Ranks that are already there. Cress walls all Cobalion sets iirc, Pangoro is a nice revenge killer of it, and Moltres is a solid check to it. But with the suspect, Panda and Moltres may go, or may not. So I say we wait until the suspect is over to decide its ranking.
And I only nominated Jolteon to B or Heliolisk to B+, nothing to do with Eel or Mowtom. But I just feel Jolt and Helio are comparable in so many ways, that they need to be in the same rank.

Pangoro doesn't really revenge kill Cobalion (unless scarf, but thats a p bad set) e_e, its just something that Cobalion can't switch into (and vice versa).

Updates look good imo n_n

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

galbia ninja'd me cause bad net 3 am didn't let me post lol but Cobalion needs to go to S rank. It's probably the best offensive Stealth Rock setter in RU for a lot of reasons. First, it has access to a blistering 108 Spe SR AND Taunt, and can threaten the most common hazard-controllers in RU quite easily (Hitmonlee is outsped and dies before spinning while only 2HKO 0 HP Cobalion let alone the supportive spread; Skuntank can't touch it without Fire Blast; Shiftry is useless against it; etc), while being able to Volt Switch most of its main counters. Cobalion's strenght don't lie on SR only, it can sweep with ease with a Swords Dance set. Its typing, Steel/Fighting, is both wonderful from a defensive point of view, letting it set up in many Pokemon, and from an offensive point, which the only Relevant Pokemon resisting a combination of Iron Head and Close Combat being Slowking, Doublade, Qwilfish, Fletchinder, Moltres, Delphox, Jellicent and Pelliper, an offensive typing so good it doesn't need coverage at all and instead can use moves that helps its set-up, including but not limited to Substitute, Magnet Rise, Taunt, or even Stealth Rock. Most of SD Cobalion's counters can be dealt with Pursuit and hazard support and can't take repeated hits. Heck, it can even run Calm Mind to fuck physical walls like Tangrowth and Quagsire (though isn't very good). All that makes Cobalion easily splashable in almost any kind of team and having a payoff much much higher than the risk of running it, fitting S-rank description.

 

[MrAldo]

Certainly a good S rank candidate. It was close of being S rank during the XY era but the constant presence of gligar made the move pretty difficult to justify. Now with the broken stuff and gligar long gone, this guy right here is one of the best mons the tier has to offer. The best offensive support mon having stealth rock and taunt to deal with opposing leading pokes and very few hazard controllers cant really do much against it or it can just volt switch out on opposing checks, it even has magnet rise to take advantages of other ground types!. Having 2 great set up moves in swords dance and calm mind, both which can take advantage of its different checks and counters respectively, and having good enough coverage to deal with them (stone edge can be used to deal with moltres and delphox albeit not exactly necessary). Certainly a mon that could pull off some work in almost every team, even a pivot, offensive support or a setup sweeper. Having that neat bulk AND fantastic speed is certainly notable. A S rank mon for sure.

In the topic regarding hazard controllers, I feel this guy right here is certainly one of the most useful hazard controllers and would like to nominate it to C+ rank. Having a pretty neat matchup and being able to threaten basically every relevant SR setter thanks to STAB scald dealing with the everlasting rhyperior and cobalion fearing a scald burn and having to rely on an item like eviolite is certainly beautiful. It also can work as a decent fighting check. It is also not a momentum killer thanks to its access to U-Turn and having reliable recovery certainly help its case. Of course it has its flaws, like having to watch out for certain coverage moves on SR setters like volt switch and rock blast on rhyperior, or for something not quite common like aurorus but having something like scald with a good 30% chance to burn them is pretty good, thats why Im not asking for much regarding this mon. C+ rank IMO. Some more commentaries regarding this would be nice.

 

[Gary]

The only thing I believe to hold Cobalion from S Rank are the S-Ranks that are already there. Cress walls all Cobalion sets iirc, Pangoro is a nice revenge killer of it, and Moltres is a solid check to it. But with the suspect, Panda and Moltres may go, or may not. So I say we wait until the suspect is over to decide its ranking.
And I only nominated Jolteon to B or Heliolisk to B+, nothing to do with Eel or Mowtom. But I just feel Jolt and Helio are comparable in so many ways, that they need to be in the same rank.

Scarf Pangoro is so bad lol. While it does seem like a nice option vs offensive teams, it's still pretty slow and it can't revenge kill any boosting sweepers, not even DD Tyrantrum. Without CB or an SD up, it's also pretty weak too, and even against offensive teams it's still pretty underwhelming. CB still pressures offensive teams quite nicely, seeing how every time it gets a free switch in something is going to have to eat up a powerful Knock Off or Hammer Arm/Superpower. Cress honestly doesn't wall Cobalion reliably at all, seeing how Sub SD Cobalion is going to beat CM Cress first anyway. Moltres resits both of its STAB moves, but it's such an obvious switch into Cobalion that defensive Cobalions can just Volt Switch out. Cobalion just has such a good match up against a large portion of the tier, and while it's definitely revengable and its STAB combination is resisted by common defensive threats, it's still a very dangerous sweeper as well as an incredible team supporter that is easily S worthy IMO.

252 Atk Pangoro Superpower vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 306-360 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Scarf Pangoro can't even kill a healthy standard bulky Cobalion without residual damage lol, while Cobalion easily OHKOs back.

 

[Magis4Life]

Omastar certainly faces competition from fellow suicide spiders like qwilfish and the recent custap crustle lead. Gligar leaving the tier has certainly hurt diminished Omastar's niche a bit (pretty much the only suicide spiker to shit on the formerly best defogger), especially with the metagame becoming more fighting dominant as of late. I do find it comparable to some of the B ranked threats of the tier and from testing it still gets the job done, especially since hazard removal is still albeit more annoying to come by (though there a still solid hazard removers). Omastar still does pretty well in pressuring most hazard removers though, or hits a good chunk of them like golbat, shiftry, etc.fairly hard. Its shell smash set is also certainly viable (though it definitely needs the support). I would probably say B rank only because it faces even more competition now as a suicide spiker and loss albeit of its niche with Gligar leaving but definitely not any lower.

Also, I find Tyrantrum to be comparable to some of the A+ ranks at the moment and wanted to nominate it even higher than A. It is definitely freaking good right now (maybe even a little too good). It is certainly very versatile and even previously mediocre/decent sets like dd and rock polish have become very good as of late. Rock head head smash is just ridiculously strong and allows tyrantrum to use scarf, rock polish, dd, and banded sets to the fulllest. It can be unpredictable in this regard and puts in a lot of work on both offense and balance/stall (stall is like almost never seen with Pangoro being a nuisance but I digress). The metagame is becoming more bulky offense oriented and Tyrantrum has been rather splashable as of late, needing less support than it did before, or rather becoming more overwhelming than previously due to amazingly powerful STAB combinations with little drawback (not that many fairies are present, making outrage rather easy to just click), and earthquake as coverage hits threats like cobalion or m-steelix pretty hard actually (the drop in Bronzong usage especially with moltres/pangoro being nuisances has also helped it a lot). It can function very well as a cleaner or wallbreaker or even both and find it as threatening as the likes of m-abomasnow, m-glalie, etc.

 

[Natural Talent]

I'd like to nominate Servine for C-.Before you guys bash it think about it, It's not as good as serperior but it can do something. I have used it and i think the most viable set for it is choice scarf. It can clean up after mons get weakened. It's not much to say about it besides the fact that it spams leaf storm. I have tried a utility set with glare knock off and synthesis to slow things down and finish with leaf storm. It has a decent speed of 83 which outpaces scarf medicham and timid accelgor.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-212911221
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-212924829
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-212933414
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-213033967
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-213039433

 

[GOthee]

I'd like to nominate Servine for C-.Before you guys bash it think about it, It's not as good as serperior but it can do something. I have used it and i think the most viable set for it is choice scarf. It can clean up after mons get weakened. It's not much to say about it besides the fact that it spams leaf storm. I have tried a utility set with glare knock off and synthesis to slow things down and finish with leaf storm. It has a decent speed of 83 which outpaces scarf medicham and timid accelgor.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru-212911221
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-212924829
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-212933414
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-213033967
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-213039433

Im sorry, but Serperior barely made it to UU and, i dont think the pre evo is worth playing in RU. I definetly consider it as a good pokemon in NU tho.

 

[Natural Talent]

Im sorry, but Serperior barely made it to UU and, i dont think the pre evo is worth playing in RU. I definetly consider it as a good pokemon in NU tho.

Serperior was BL which is the ban list of UU try again. Come up with a good reason I have provided replays of it sweeping teams. You literally said nothing pertaining to what I said

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Skuntank

for B+
Thanks to Gligar leaving, and the advent of more people using Punishment Skuntank, he is ready to advance up to a rank above or the same as Golbat. Being able to be a good stop towards boosting Reuniclus and Cresselia is a big thing. It also boasts it's own form of priority, being able to pursuit trap, and a very cool ability in Aftermath. The Sucker Punch / Aftermath combo is a very useful thing in riddling down pokemon using recoil moves or revenge killing frail attackers such as Emboar, Jolteon, and Braviary. Skuntank boasts great traits over it's competitor Golbat, as Skuntank doesn't struggle against one of the tier's premier walls, and as the actual offensive stats to attack things. I think after a few changes later, Skuntank is ready to ascend up. Don't get me wrong, Skuntank still has some problems that plagues a lot of today's defoggers nowadays such as being utterly stomped by Tyrantrum / M-Lix. But as a defogger, it has enough unique traits to be in the same rank, if not higher than Golbat's.

I disagree with this to be frank. Skuntank is certainly good and a useful defogger but B+ is to generous for it imo. The reason i feel this way is it suffers the same problems with golbat in that it has 4mss and every stealth rocker has a field day with it. Because most rock setters have no trouble beating it it has a pretty rough time defogging because it can't scratch any rock setter.

 

[aVocado]

Posting to say that I agree on moving Cobalion to S. The arguments have already been made so I'll keep my post short. Right now, and even despite scarf moltres is common as fuck, the SD set is incredibly good. The Stealth Rock set is also good and it can even do both (set up SR and SD) at the same time. There is also SubSD which is amazing too. It's reasonably versatile, has good STABs, amazing natural bulk, taunt/sr, volt switch, and a few other good things. It's got everything it needs to be S imo, and with Moltres being gone it'll be even better.

 

[Punchshroom]

Agreeing with the above posts.
And since I have had this on my mind for a while now, might as well do it now.

to B or

to B+:
I feel one of these two need to happen, as I think Jolteon and Helioisk have the same viability. Both are fast, hard fitting electric types, but they each have a way to make them different and give reasons to use one over the other. Jolteon has the second highest unboosted speed tier, behind Accelgor, as well as great 110 SpA. Though what I believe to make it is lack of coverage. It has Shadow Ball, Hidden Power, and Signal Beam, making it pretty predictable. All you have to do is bring out a Cress or Eelektross and just wall it. Though it stills hits pretty hard and is crazy fast, I don't see it as B+ rank. But if it is, I then suggest that Helioisk move up to B+. My personal preference in a fast electric type, as it has secondary STAB, much better coverage, and looks much cooler. Its secondary STAB makes it harder to wall, and its plentiful coverage makes it unpredictable. Though with this, it has 4MSS, its normal type lets it get checked by Fighting types, and it has less bulk than Jolteon.
I just feel these two should be in the same rank, as I believe them to be of equal viability, thus being in the same rank, being either B or B+.

Gonna offer my two cents. After being terrorized by that damn jesus lizard in NU, it's pretty clear what advantages Heliolisk has over Jolteon.

The primary reason Jolteon was used over Heliolisk was due to Mega Pidgeot, which has left the tier, leaving the only notable advantage left for Jolteon being its ability to escape Dugtrio's grasp via Baton Pass. However, being potshotted by Dugtrio isn't enough of a reason to hold it back from a good rank, seeing as Delphox was S Rank in the early meta even with Dugtrio's presence.

Heliolisk's biggest trait over Jolteon is its massive coverage. Jolteon can only afford one Hidden Power at a time, but between Surf and Focus Blast alone, Heliolisk can threaten various Electric resists such as Rhyperior, Mega Steelix, Mega Camerupt, Mega Abomasnow, Tyrantrum, and Magneton in one fell swoop, something Jolteon can only dream of doing. Such powerful coverage options also give Heliolisk mild stallbreaking ability, as it can threaten a large majority of slower Pokemon. The addition of usable Normal STAB in Hyper Voice also means Helio can resort to it to continue hitting hard if Electric resists, such as Dragon-types, Grass-types, and opposing Electric-types (including Jolteon itself) are prevalent. Speaking of speed, while Heliolisk is substantially slower than Jolteon, it still sits at a great speed tier, aka being faster than Cobalion, and swiftly end it with Focus Blast. Being able to safely revenge Doublade is also nifty for offensive teams to have. There are very few matchups Heliolisk would fail in that Jolteon wouldn't also falter; Heliolisk tends to be superior most of the time.

I see no reason why Helio shouldn't be ranked alongside Jolteon, or even above.

 

[spookysocialist]

Don't forget heliolisk has the ability to switch in to water types better then jolteon thanks to dry skin. Jolteon has to worry about getting worn down from repeated switch ins to scald, while heliolisk can heal itself coming in against things like alomomola, slowking, and jellicent. Being able to hit mega camel/snake alone is worth using it over jolteon though.

Also agree with Cobalion to S. It's a fantastic pokemon that can fit on pretty much every team type, and now has the distinction of being one of a handful of pokemon that can switch into CB tyrantrum's head smash and outrage.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Aighty, here we go. Here's what I agree with (and maybe a few of my own too).

A+ -> S Been explained before by several people before me but I definitely support this nom. Its SR set is a really good Rocks setter right now as it has Taunt to prevent slower Rocks setters from setting up and thanks to its awesome typing and good bulk it sets up Rocks really easily. It can also prevent Defog use as well which is great, and it has a good typing to eat Knock Offs and plenty of other moves. it's also fast too which helps it and it can use Volt Switch to gain momentum with ease which makes it quite a neat pivot. Aside from that, its SD sets work well, whether outright SD or SubSD and with CC and Iron Head it can just smack a lot of stuff pretty hard, and with its great Speed tier it can sweep well. CM is also an okayish possibility and can set up more slowly but it becomes harder to kill on the special side and it still sweeps relatively well. Basically this mon has a lot of good qualities like its typing, Speed, and movepool which make it a great fit on any team and it can do multiple roles and do them all well. Fitting for S Rank imo.

B -> B+ I like Heliolisk. I feel like it's one of the best Electric-types in RU as it stands and there are plenty of good reasons to use it. It has really good coverage and Volt Switch, which makes it highly potent as an LO attacker. With a set of T-Bolt / Grass Knot / Hyper Voice / Volt Switch, Heliolisk can potently take down many Ground-types, as it instantly kills Rhyperior so that isn't a safe bet, and it also KOes Seismitoad and stuff. You can also run Surf which is cool to bop Mega Steelix and Mega Camerupt, and Focus Blast is also a usable option over Hyper Voice if you want to just smack Tyrantrum and Mega Abomasnow which is really cool. Hyper Voice itself is a really cool thing to have as it allows Heliolisk to bypass Substitutes from SubToxic Moltres and stuff like that while hitting Druddigon and Virizion decently hard on the switch-in. More cool things about this mon are its Normal typing and Dry Skin, which grant it two great immunities to Ghost and Water (the latter of which it can heal itself off of!). Being able to serve as a great check to Doublade as well as to an extent Slowking and Clawitzer is neat and it can threaten all of them with Thunderbolt. It's at least as good as, if not better than Jolteon in a myriad of situations. Jolteon really doesn't have much over Heliolisk except Speed, and the only relevant things Jolteon outspeeds that Heliolisk doesn't are Dugtrio and Scarf Emboar (and I guess it revenge kills Durant). They should share the same ranking imo at the very least.

B- -> B Hey call me crazy for this...and I'm not quite sure about this nom yet, but I think Seismitoad may actually be deserving of a rise to B. It's a really cool bulky Stealth Rock setter and it's actually very decently useful. It sets up Rocks quite well, and with Scald, it beats opposing Stealth Rock setters such as Rhyperior and Mega Steelix-checking both of them is really, really good too! It's also good at checking Doublade and Mega Camerupt and it also takes on Slowking fairly well to a decent extent. Water Absorb is a nice ability to use as well as semi-decent recovery against Slowking, Clawitzer, and Jellicent. With Earth Power it can also do work against Drapion and Tyrantrum, as well as Houndoom to an extent. it's pretty decently bulky and it has a nice typing overall. Knock Off or Toxic is just icing on the cake, knocking off an item or poisoning something is extra nifty as well. Seismitoad is actually a pretty cool mon and I think it has potential to be higher than its current rank, it's a good mon imo. I've also seen increased usage of it which also says a bit about it.

->C- Haven't used this mon but judging from KingT's replays I'm convinced it's decent. His points also seem pretty legit and it looks as it has potential to be successful when you give it a lot of support. It needs a lot of support but if you give it that support, it's usually going to pay off.

B+ -> A- Mesprit is a very good mon. SR+Healing Wish support is so incredible it's unbelievable. It sets up Rocks and with Healing Wish, it can give a deadly Pokemon a second chance to wreck, which as Latias has taught us in OU, is literally incredible. Pair it up with something like Emboar or Tyrantrum and you are literally in business. Mesprit sets up Rocks well and with the right moveset it can easily go toe-to-toe with any hazard setter in RU. With LO it packs a good punch, but more importantly, the Colbur Berry has been more common on Mesprit lately as it allows it to take on Knock Off and stuff like that well which allows it to be less prone to trapping and also gives it a better shot against Hitmonlee. I'm not totally sure about this, but I definitely think Mesprit is a very good mon and I think it might be deserving of a little rise.

->B? I'm not 100% sure about this one tbh. Though I think it wouldn't hurt at all because the competition for its teamslot as a suicide lead has been getting real lately. Accelgor for one is more reliable at setting up Spikes as it's really fast and has Encore to help set up easier and Final Gambit is good. Crustle also does it a bit better as it has Custap berry to set up both hazards well and has Sturdy. Shell Smash, however, looks highly intriguing, though I will admit it probably needs quite a bit of support.

Okay...that...was long as heck lol. Been a while since I've actually made any noms here or bothered to support any lol. But that's all for now, though I am thinking about possibly nomming Tyrantrum for a raise but I'll have to test that thing more.

 

[Para124]

The problem with Servine is it's so much slower than Serperior - To even hope to start sweeping it'd need a choice scarf - Which is also bad because you're relying on an 8 PP move, and even though the move is very powerful, it's also bundled with what is now a 60 base Special Attack, which is godawful. As well, there are a ton of resists to his main stab walking around, including Amoonguss, who 4x resists the stab, and super effects him in return (I should also mention Servine misses out on a ton of bulk Serperior has). So you'd have only a few options after any of these pokemon come out - 1. Preserve Servine and try to push him back into the game later (Now with less PP on your move to spam), 2. Let Servine get KOed because it can't serve any purpose. It's really a predicament, and in my opinion, it doesn't even deserve C-. You say it can be used effectively with support, but is it really desirable to put all the support in for a Pokemon that'll only see the chance to OHKO for 5 turns? And even then can be easily countered? I just think Servine's not worthy of C-. It can be used but it's very hard to pull off effectively. :o

 

[Natural Talent]

The problem with Servine is it's so much slower than Serperior - To even hope to start sweeping it'd need a choice scarf - Which is also bad because you're relying on an 8 PP move, and even though the move is very powerful, it's also bundled with what is now a 60 base Special Attack, which is godawful. As well, there are a ton of resists to his main stab walking around, including Amoonguss, who 4x resists the stab, and super effects him in return (I should also mention Servine misses out on a ton of bulk Serperior has). So you'd have only a few options after any of these pokemon come out - 1. Preserve Servine and try to push him back into the game later (Now with less PP on your move to spam), 2. Let Servine get KOed because it can't serve any purpose. It's really a predicament, and in my opinion, it doesn't even deserve C-. You say it can be used effectively with support, but is it really desirable to put all the support in for a Pokemon that'll only see the chance to OHKO for 5 turns? And even then can be easily countered? I just think Servine's not worthy of C-. It can be used but it's very hard to pull off effectively. :o

that was the set i was running and there is only 6 mons if played well you will only need less than 8. I think it is and apparently a lot of people agree. Don't want to turn this into a big thing but check the replays and it will show. Also do you not what being a C- rank mon means? What actually counters it? Virizion gets 3hko'd on the switch and that can be weakened prior to bringing it in. Cobalion gets 2hko'd on the switch iirc. "Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks." With that being said it can respectably be put in C- rank as it's not hard to support. Not hard with good support just saying. Test it on a good team and find out for yourself

 

[Para124]

that was the set i was running and there is only 6 mons if played well you will only need less than 8. I think it is and apparently a lot of people agree. Don't want to turn this into a big thing but check the replays and it will show. Also do you not what being a C- rank mon means? What actually counters it? Virizion gets 3hko'd on the switch and that can be weakened prior to bringing it in. Cobalion gets 2hko'd on the switch iirc. "Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks." With that being said it can respectably be put in C- rank as it's not hard to support. Not hard with good support just saying. Test it on a good team and find out for yourself

I don't want to start an argument either because I hate arguing over Viability - But it is easily countered by Amoonguss, who is rather common from what I've played. At +6, it fails to even 2HKO - Meanwhile Amoonguss can 2HKO the Servine. As well, Moltres would counter it, hard, with a Fire Blast i'd assume it'd OHKO (I don't need to check calcs for this) And yes I do know what C- rank is actually, in that post I must admit I did kinda mess up my point - But it doesn't really fit the requirement still. It is kind of hard to Support, You'd need something to at least check it's biggest counters - Most fire types, Durant also is a check i'd (Iron Head 2HKOs with 252 atk), Assault Vest Escavalier, and Amoonguss. I've been looking at your replays and yes it may have worked, but you only fought one of the pokemon I mentioned, Moltres. You may have support for that but in this scenario, to support stuff for all it's counters would be too much work just for the 8 PP. Also the thing about needing less than 8 PP is rather... I guess the word i'm looking for is unreliable, since there's multiple problems relying on just 8 PP. Scouts that spam protect'll be a problem, as well as pokemon with Clear Smog (Such as Amoonguss, who can be considered a Counter), can just set it back down to 0 and therefore - Servine's not useful. Not to mention the obvious Knock Off that would wreck him, but this is the part I may have to skip since not many Knock Offers can come into Servine safely after it's boosted. I guess I can see where you're coming from tho, I like your idea about Servine, if you can provide more replays against the pokemon I mentioned, I'd love to watch it, see exactly how much support you may need c:

 

[Natural Talent]

I don't want to start an argument either because I hate arguing over Viability - But it is easily countered by Amoonguss, who is rather common from what I've played. At +6, it fails to even 2HKO - Meanwhile Amoonguss can 2HKO the Servine. As well, Moltres would counter it, hard, with a Fire Blast i'd assume it'd OHKO (I don't need to check calcs for this) And yes I do know what C- rank is actually, in that post I must admit I did kinda mess up my point - But it doesn't really fit the requirement still. It is kind of hard to Support, You'd need something to at least check it's biggest counters - Most fire types, Durant also is a check i'd (Iron Head 2HKOs with 252 atk), Assault Vest Escavalier, and Amoonguss. I've been looking at your replays and yes it may have worked, but you only fought one of the pokemon I mentioned, Moltres. You may have support for that but in this scenario, to support stuff for all it's counters would be too much work just for the 8 PP. Also the thing about needing less than 8 PP is rather... I guess the word i'm looking for is unreliable, since there's multiple problems relying on just 8 PP. Scouts that spam protect'll be a problem, as well as pokemon with Clear Smog (Such as Amoonguss, who can be considered a Counter), can just set it back down to 0 and therefore - Servine's not useful. Not to mention the obvious Knock Off that would wreck him, but this is the part I may have to skip since not many Knock Offers can come into Servine safely after it's boosted. I guess I can see where you're coming from tho, I like your idea about Servine, if you can provide more replays against the pokemon I mentioned, I'd love to watch it, see exactly how much support you may need c:

it's going for C rank your argueing about higher ranked mons beating it and you can only come up with 2. i can weaken escavelier easily and amoonguss is gonna lose to the rest of my team so in my defensive the support i have can beat amoonguss. it needs a lot of support which all c rank mons do... who's gonna get him knocked when i will keep it safe. your are acrting like it's coming in more then once and crap as if it's a pivot, it's not !! servine is useful. I may have skipped the part where i said to luck at replays. No? I thought so servine still has a good 83 speed which outspeed a portion of the tier. Most teams that have amoongus are pretty slow too. If you don't have an amoonguss you might have trouble so i don't see your point if anything you make it luck good by saying people will have to resort to amoonguss on most teams. I showed a good amount of replays that most people tend to not do. Once moltres leaves it will be even better for servine. My case is with the right support servine can get around it's counters. Btw slow teams tend o carry protect meaning stall which loses to cm meloetta js . So the problems can be worked around at +2 it pretty much 2hko's anything that doesn't quad resist it.

 

[Para124]

it's going for C rank your argueing about higher ranked mons beating it and you can only come up with 2. i can weaken escavelier easily and amoonguss is gonna lose to the rest of my team so in my defensive the support i have can beat amoonguss. it needs a lot of support which all c rank mons do... who's gonna get him knocked when i will keep it safe. your are acrting like it's coming in more then once and crap as if it's a pivot, it's not !! servine is useful. I may have skipped the part where i said to luck at replays. No? I thought so servine still has a good 83 speed which outspeed a portion of the tier. Most teams that have amoongus are pretty slow too. If you don't have an amoonguss you might have trouble so i don't see your point if anything you make it luck good by saying people will have to resort to amoonguss on most teams. I showed a good amount of replays that most people tend to not do. Once moltres leaves it will be even better for servine. My case is with the right support servine can get around it's counters. Btw slow teams tend o carry protect meaning stall which loses to cm meloetta js . So the problems can be worked around at +2 it pretty much 2hko's anything that doesn't quad resist it.

What you're saying is true, but just to mention - I have said 4 pokes, Moltres, Durant, Escavalier, and Amoonguss, altogether it's not very uncommon to find a team without one of those four pokemon. The main thing I hate is running Choice Scarf on Servine, it makes you locked into a 8 PP move that is.. quite a few teams carry a counter so it's situational. :c Still overall, I don't know why I started this Argument, Servine's probably useful, gg no re? c:

 

[Molk]

Alrighty, gonna make a few updates.

Updates

Cobalion moved up to S rank
Omastar moved down to B rank

I'm probably going to make a few more updates later (after the test/voting is over) regarding the other nominations for the record.

carry on :]

 

[lighthouses]

Skuntank for B+

Thanks to Gligar leaving, and the advent of more people using Punishment Skuntank, he is ready to advance up to a rank above or the same as Golbat. Being able to be a good stop towards boosting Reuniclus and Cresselia is a big thing. It also boasts it's own form of priority, being able to pursuit trap, and a very cool ability in Aftermath. The Sucker Punch / Aftermath combo is a very useful thing in riddling down pokemon using recoil moves or revenge killing frail attackers such as Emboar, Jolteon, and Braviary. Skuntank boasts great traits over it's competitor Golbat, as Skuntank doesn't struggle against one of the tier's premier walls, and as the actual offensive stats to attack things. I think after a few changes later, Skuntank is ready to ascend up. Don't get me wrong, Skuntank still has some problems that plagues a lot of today's defoggers nowadays such as being utterly stomped by Tyrantrum / M-Lix. But as a defogger, it has enough unique traits to be in the same rank, if not higher than Golbat's.

I think this should be taken into account o-o