Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

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FrocoTerra said:
OK, what about covering Mega Lopunny, Mega Zard X, possibly Zard Y, setting and removing rocks, and of course Serperior, in only 2 Pokemon. I can't find a good combination to do that. It's fairly frustrating.
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You can try Togekiss + Hippowdon.

Togekiss is the defogger and it basically hard counters Serperior. With 68 Defense EVs it avoids the 2HKO from Mega Lopunny so it can check that too, and in a pinch it can survive a Fire attack from either Charizard and Thunder Wave it.

Hippowdon sets up Stealth Rocks, checks Charizard X and also counters Mega Lopunny in case Stealth Rocks are up on your side. Hippo's sand can disrupt Charizard Y and it can OHKO with Stone Edge. While Hippo can only switch in on Roost or Solar Beam, if you can get it to switch in on a Solar Beam than you can force Charizard to stay in for another turn and then KO it.
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Air Slash
- Defog
- Roost

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
 
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Zebstrika said:
You can try Togekiss + Hippowdon.

Togekiss is the defogger and it basically hard counters Serperior. With 68 Defense EVs it avoids the 2HKO from Mega Lopunny so it can check that too, and in a pinch it can survive a Fire attack from either Charizard and Thunder Wave it.

Hippowdon sets up Stealth Rocks, checks Charizard X and also counters Mega Lopunny in case Stealth Rocks are up on your side. Hippo's sand can disrupt Charizard Y and it can OHKO with Stone Edge. While Hippo can only switch in on Roost or Solar Beam, if you can get it to switch in on a Solar Beam than you can force Charizard to stay in for another turn and then KO it.
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Air Slash
- Defog
- Roost

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
Click to expand...

This seems like it works quite well. I'll definitely look into it.
 
Guys, I know this is an extremely broad question I am about to ask here but... What would you say, in general, is the most effective pokemon in the OU teir as of now?
 
Thatwackycruton said:
Guys, I know this is an extremely broad question I am about to ask here but... What would you say, in general, is the most effective pokemon in the OU teir as of now?
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I'd probably have to go with Landorus tbh. Really just the fact that its presence alone makes it so that you have to tread carefully around it and make sure your team doesn't get swept by a Rock Polish set or obscure coverage move. The 4 attack set with different variations such as HP Ice and Rock Slide makes it highly effective in the meta-game and is what I consider one of the most effective Pokemon in the tier as of now.
 
Gonna have to go with Excadrill. Not only is it a paragon of offense and revenge killing by itself, but its spin support is invaluable for offensive teams that don't want to give up too much momentum with Defensive Starmie, or have their Defogger Pursuit-trapped early by Tyranitar or Bisharp. Even if it dies, there's a very good chance it's already spun in time for Zard X or Y to go to work. Brave Bird resistance and T-Wave immunity are the shit.
 
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Yea, Landorus is very threatening, I would say way too threatening. This thing has basically zero counters bar like some obscure mons and not even them can handle some of its obscure coverage, like for example, Mantine or Blissey. Basically, you would think they would counter it, but then if they become common (which is not probably going to be the case, its just an example of how Landorus works) Landorus would run Rock Slide or Superpower for the later. And then when you think you have a full counter to it in the form of Cresselia you just get rekt by Landorus' common partners, pursuit trappers. So yeah, this thing can adapt to its would be counters like no one. The only counter I believe that isn't easily pursuit'd is Reflect Type Mega-Latias, which isn't a bad mon of course, but you just some times would rather some other defensive megas such as Sableye, Altaria, Venusaur, etc. From a defensive standpoint you basically can't prepare for it, you just hope that your mixed bulky flying/levitating mon can take it on. From an offensive standpoint, you have to be careful about it, or else it could be sweeping your team with Rock Polish.

Also, I have for you guys a question not related to Landorus, but more of a thing that has been discussed to death. Gothitelle. Here it goes:
Do you think it's fair to force people's pokemon to lock themselves into a move until it's PP stalled and then go ahead and struggle to death? Do you like being stuck 50 turns just for one of your pokemon to faint to let the opposing team have an easier time against you?
 
I have to agree with all of those. Landorus has become a huge threat lately its incredibly strong against both stall and offense (RP) The lack of viable counters really helps it as it seems the metagame has shifted in favor of Lando which is nice :] Another really powerful mon as of now is keldeo the SubCM set is amazing and scarf helps it against hyper offense. These two mons atm seem to be at the top of OU
 
Landorus is so scary it's disgusting. I've been running CM Landorus, Scarf Keldeo, and Blackglasses Bisharp w/ Pursuit, Knock Off, and Sucker Punch, and holy crap... maybe it's the quality of players on the lower ladder, but I've won more than three-quarters of my matches without even using the other three 'mons. I almost feel like the Landorus + Keldeo core with Pursuit support is BETTER than it was in XY.
 
Yeah, Landorus would probably be my pick for best Pokemon right now as well. Mega Metagross is right up there, but like I said in the Viability Ranking thread when talking about it moving up to S Rank, it's just one of those Pokemon that I can toss onto tons of balanced and offensive teams and it'll do me a lot of good. Slap Rock Polish on it and you give offense a lot of trouble. Run 4 attacks and maybe even Calm Mind and stall has to play carefully to survive. Between Earth Power, Focus Blast, Psychic, Sludge Wave, Knock Off, Rock Slide, and HP Ice, it's nearly impossible to switch into Landorus safely until you've spent a couple of turns scouting for its set (unless you're running something like Mega Latias or Cresselia). Mega Metagross isn't too far behind because, well, it's Mega Metagross. It's nearly flawless and serves as a great glue and general hard hitter for offense, and the main thing that makes it a little less attractive as a team choice than Landorus for me is the fact that the opportunity cost of being a Mega is so significant.
 
Thatwackycruton said:
Guys, I know this is an extremely broad question I am about to ask here but... What would you say, in general, is the most effective pokemon in the OU teir as of now?
Click to expand...

I wanna go out on a limb here and say that the most effective pokemon in the OU tier is gonna be Heatran. Heatran is pretty much god's gift to balance and stall being able to check so many mons defensively and access to great utility moves and not being a slouch in offense either. With its amazing typing and access to Flash Fire, it makes sure some mons like Serperior don't run rampant throughout OU and its pure existence makes running EQ on M-Metagross pretty much mandatory. Granted it does get beat by the S-Tier mons right now, but that is WHY they are S-Tier. The ability to beat Heatran as an offensive mon pretty much dictates how good you are in OU, so I think it is the most effective and most tier changing pokemon of right now.
 
Since we're talking about scary pokemon I would like to add on to metagross that he can, also like Lando-I, run a rock polish set. He forces switches and has the bulk so it's easy for him to set up. After one of those it might as well be gg, since no form of priority can take that monster out not to mention a free life orb in tough claws.
 
Landorus-I is powerful but he's no more dominant than most clean-up sweepers IMO, especially since he lacks resistances to common forms of priority. The notion that he's "too strong" is a bit of an overestimation. Tyranitar is the most effective 'mon in the tier. It functions extremely well offensively and defensively and generates advantageous situations for a multitude of other pokemon while often times putting the other team at a disadvantage. Not to mention it checks bird spam, sets rocks, traps Lati@s, and has a surprisingly varied movepool with the stats to take advantage of it. It's absolutely awesome how many sets it can effectively run:

-Sassy Smooth Rock with Ice Beam + Rock Setter
-Relaxed Smooth Rock with Fire Blast for Ferro + Rock Setter
-Choice Scarf
-Choice Band
-Assault Vest
-DD Mega Tar (criminally underrated)

That versatility is insane. There are no other pokes like T-tar that can cover so many holes while having the ability to run so many sets so well. He is total glue for a lot of balanced and offensive teams and this is all on top of the fact that he puts a clean sweep on a silver platter for his buddy excadrill and M-Garchomp. With enough SDef investment and AV he can also manage CharY and LO Gengar and OHKO them both back which is a fucking huge deal all on its own. Jolly DD Mega Tar is an absolute beast that is 1.) under-prepared for 2.) a supreme win condition on offensive teams.
 
astroshagger said:
Landorus-I is powerful but he's no more dominant than most clean-up sweepers IMO, especially since he lacks resistances to common forms of priority. The notion that he's "too strong" is a bit of an overestimation. Tyranitar is the most effective 'mon in the tier. It functions extremely well offensively and defensively and generates advantageous situations for a multitude of other pokemon while often times putting the other team at a disadvantage. Not to mention it checks bird spam, sets rocks, traps Lati@s, and has a surprisingly varied movepool with the stats to take advantage of it. It's absolutely awesome how many sets it can effectively run:

-Sassy Smooth Rock with Ice Beam + Rock Setter
-Relaxed Smooth Rock with Fire Blast for Ferro + Rock Setter
-Choice Scarf
-Choice Band
-Assault Vest
-DD Mega Tar (criminally underrated)

That versatility is insane. There are no other pokes like T-tar that can cover so many holes while having the ability to run so many sets so well. He is total glue for a lot of balanced and offensive teams and this is all on top of the fact that he puts a clean sweep on a silver platter for his buddy excadrill and M-Garchomp. With enough SDef investment and AV he can also manage CharY and LO Gengar and OHKO them both back which is a fucking huge deal all on its own. Jolly DD Mega Tar is an absolute beast that is 1.) under-prepared for 2.) a supreme win condition on offensive teams.
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I've only seen Ttar bring effective in two roles in this meta. Scarf trap is hella scary to me but if I find out my opponent doesn't carry pursuit it becomes little else than a free sand storm. The second role is providing for drill/chomp. There I think shines the best since it can be played more safely.

Ttar is good for the roles it has but it certainly isn't the most viable poke in OU. That role would probably have to go to Clefable I think. CM set is just difficult to break out side of immediate threats like Metagross. Then it can even wish pass or healing wish or get rocks. It's got so much versatility so that's why it's the most viable.
 
astroshagger said:
Landorus-I is powerful but he's no more dominant than most clean-up sweepers IMO, especially since he lacks resistances to common forms of priority. The notion that he's "too strong" is a bit of an overestimation. Tyranitar is the most effective 'mon in the tier. It functions extremely well offensively and defensively and generates advantageous situations for a multitude of other pokemon while often times putting the other team at a disadvantage. Not to mention it checks bird spam, sets rocks, traps Lati@s, and has a surprisingly varied movepool with the stats to take advantage of it. It's absolutely awesome how many sets it can effectively run:

-Sassy Smooth Rock with Ice Beam + Rock Setter
-Relaxed Smooth Rock with Fire Blast for Ferro + Rock Setter
-Choice Scarf
-Choice Band
-Assault Vest
-DD Mega Tar (criminally underrated)

That versatility is insane. There are no other pokes like T-tar that can cover so many holes while having the ability to run so many sets so well. He is total glue for a lot of balanced and offensive teams and this is all on top of the fact that he puts a clean sweep on a silver platter for his buddy excadrill and M-Garchomp. With enough SDef investment and AV he can also manage CharY and LO Gengar and OHKO them both back which is a fucking huge deal all on its own. Jolly DD Mega Tar is an absolute beast that is 1.) under-prepared for 2.) a supreme win condition on offensive teams.
Click to expand...

Only 3 TTar sets are viable:
- Support for Sand Rush users.
- Choice Scarf (fast trapping and Revenge-killing)
- Choice Band (slow, bulkier and very powerful trapper which becomes very useful against Talonflame and stall). The other sets you mentioned are very gimmicky.



If you are talking about the best Pokemon in the tier atm, you can't forget to talk about Scizor. This Pokemon is very versatile and has got great base stats (if you consider also the Mega). While Scizor has increased its usage during the Suspect Test due to the lack of a reliable Steel-Type to check Fairy-Types. It has a great bulk that allows it to set up against a lot of pokemon and basically has no counters if you consider a 1v1 scenario. Then it can beat all the Pokemon that shut it down such as Charizard by taking advantage from the Stealth Rock damage. It has a lot of reliable sets such as Bulky SD Mega or not, Offensive SD Mega or normal (w/ Life Orb or Leftovers), Choice Band, Bulky Defog (generally not mega). Then it can weaken its counters on the switch in. The offensive set wins against Rotom and other bulky waters, it can damage Keldeo on the switch in. In addition Mega-Scizor is the BEST and the only FULL counter against Mega-Metagross. I've been using Scizor a lot in this Metagame, with Metagross and without it and I'm sure that it's almost as scary as Landorus against every type of playstyle. I can say that Zapdos is its only check even if +2 offensive fast Mega-scizor usually wins with SR damage.

In addition:
giovanidude said:
Since we're talking about scary pokemon I would like to add on to metagross that he can, also like Lando-I, run a rock polish set. He forces switches and has the bulk so it's easy for him to set up. After one of those it might as well be gg, since no form of priority can take that monster out not to mention a free life orb in tough claws.
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Agility Metagross is probably the worst set because it has a lot of counters if you consider only 3 attack slot. The fourth attack move is necessary if you want reduce the number of its counters.
 
I would probably agree with Landorus-I being the biggest threat in OU right now. And of course Megagross is right up there as well given that it was suspected. But I honestly think Mega Altaria is worth mentioning alongside those 2 mons. It's so incredibly versatile. DD 3 attacks is incredibly threatening, as is DD 2 attacks with roost as Altaria has very nice natural bulk which makes setting up relatively easy. Special sets also lack switchins and can tear apart defensive cores on balance builds. And of course it can also run a cleric support set that fits in very nicely in balanced defensive cores as well as semi-stall. Barring Mega Venusaur and bulky Talonflame sets, there's very little that consistently wants to take on pretty much every common Altaria set. Its low speed (even after a +1 boost) is the main thing that makes it just a bit less threatening than monsters like Lando-I/Megagross, but yeah. It's really just a great pokemon.
 
Tricking said:
Only 3 TTar sets are viable:
- Support for Sand Rush users.
- Choice Scarf (fast trapping and Revenge-killing)
- Choice Band (slow, bulkier and very powerful trapper which becomes very useful against Talonflame and stall). The other sets you mentioned are very gimmicky.
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As astroshagger said Tyranitar can also be used as a wall setting SR and packing ice beam or fire blast to it most pokemon resisting his stabs. His base Attack is pretty good imo.
 
Tricking said:
In addition Mega-Scizor is the BEST and the only FULL counter against Mega-Metagross.
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Bulky SD Mega Scizor isn't really a counter... nothing counters Mega Metagross. Knock Off and Bullet Punch both are pretty weak when unboosted, and the time you decide to Roost off the damages and get up an SD, Mega Metagross will already be at +2 with the boosts Meteor Mash provides (and it happens way more often than it should)... I'm talking as a long time user of Mega Scizor. I don't even count the situations in which I lost my Mega Scizor because of those stupid boosts that Meteor Mash provide.
 
napty said:
Bulky SD Mega Scizor isn't really a counter... nothing counters Mega Metagross. Knock Off and Bullet Punch both are pretty weak when unboosted, and the time you decide to Roost off the damages and get up an SD, Mega Metagross will already be at +2 with the boosts Meteor Mash provides (and it happens way more often than it should)... I'm talking as a long time user of Mega Scizor. I don't even count the situations in which I lost my Mega Scizor because of those stupid boosts that Meteor Mash provide.
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RNG or hax shouldn't be taken into account with checks and counters, Bulky M-Scizor has always been a Mega Metagross counter because it can Roost + SD on it fairly easily
 
Tricking said:
Only 3 TTar sets are viable:
- Support for Sand Rush users.
- Choice Scarf (fast trapping and Revenge-killing)
- Choice Band (slow, bulkier and very powerful trapper which becomes very useful against Talonflame and stall). The other sets you mentioned are very gimmicky.



If you are talking about the best Pokemon in the tier atm, you can't forget to talk about Scizor. This Pokemon is very versatile and has got great base stats (if you consider also the Mega). While Scizor has increased its usage during the Suspect Test due to the lack of a reliable Steel-Type to check Fairy-Types. It has a great bulk that allows it to set up against a lot of pokemon and basically has no counters if you consider a 1v1 scenario. Then it can beat all the Pokemon that shut it down such as Charizard by taking advantage from the Stealth Rock damage. It has a lot of reliable sets such as Bulky SD Mega or not, Offensive SD Mega or normal (w/ Life Orb or Leftovers), Choice Band, Bulky Defog (generally not mega). Then it can weaken its counters on the switch in. The offensive set wins against Rotom and other bulky waters, it can damage Keldeo on the switch in. In addition Mega-Scizor is the BEST and the only FULL counter against Mega-Metagross. I've been using Scizor a lot in this Metagame, with Metagross and without it and I'm sure that it's almost as scary as Landorus against every type of playstyle. I can say that Zapdos is its only check even if +2 offensive fast Mega-scizor usually wins with SR damage.

In addition:


Agility Metagross is probably the worst set because it has a lot of counters if you consider only 3 attack slot. The fourth attack move is necessary if you want reduce the number of its counters.
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Hell no is the fourth move necessary on Metagross, as you have teammates (trappers) that are paired with it to help take care of its counters. Agility gross may not be the best set but it is hella scary late game and against offense, especially because it is rather unexpected compared to an all out attacker.
 
cis scum said:
RNG or hax shouldn't be taken into account with checks and counters, Bulky M-Scizor has always been a Mega Metagross counter because it can Roost + SD on it fairly easily
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Ok.

Just wanted to say that in practice Mega Scizor can easily lose against a Mega Metagross.
 
napty said:
Bulky SD Mega Scizor isn't really a counter... nothing counters Mega Metagross. Knock Off and Bullet Punch both are pretty weak when unboosted, and the time you decide to Roost off the damages and get up an SD, Mega Metagross will already be at +2 with the boosts Meteor Mash provides (and it happens way more often than it should)... I'm talking as a long time user of Mega Scizor. I don't even count the situations in which I lost my Mega Scizor because of those stupid boosts that Meteor Mash provide.
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The scenario you are describing has absolutely no point.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Scizor: 63-75 (18.3 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Scizor: 56-66 (16.2 - 19.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Scizor: 94-111 (27.3 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

(if you want a confirm of the damage). There are good possibility for Scizor-Mega to win also vs +2 Metagross.
 
Tricking said:
The scenario you are describing has absolutely no point.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Scizor: 63-75 (18.3 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Scizor: 56-66 (16.2 - 19.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Mega Scizor: 94-111 (27.3 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

(if you want a confirm of the damage). There are good possibility for Scizor-Mega to win also vs +2 Metagross.
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I didn't calc anything. I'm talking from my experience. If Mega Metagross manages to get a +2 boost, you're pretty much screwed. That's all I know.

Let's invent a scenario though. Scizor is a bit weaken, like 70%.

  • Scizor comes in, Metagross uses Meteor Mash, he gets a boost. Scizor is at half.
  • Metagross uses EQ, Scizor roosts off the damages. It is at 65%.
  • Metagross' user is seeing that EQ ain't enough, he's fishing for another boost with Meteor Mash. He got it. Scizor gotta roost again. It is at 85%.
  • Now, Metagross is at +2 and only has to spam EQ brainlessly until he gets a single crit, while Scizor can't do shit bar recovering off the damages.
 
napty

+2 84 Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 200-236 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 107-127 (31.1 - 37%) -- 78.9% chance to 3HKO

It's really a statistical improbability that Metagross can get to +2 against Scizor. Really stop selling some BS that the RNG is against you, or that Metagross can afford to fish for Meteor Mash boosts when it can't. If you really want I could find the probability of two boosts in ten plus turns, it's pretty low.
 
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