Lower Tiers LC Set Viability Rankings

[Corporal Levi]

Credit to Valmanway for the idea; approved by QuoteCS; OP adapted from the ADV LC Viability Rankings; run by Cheek Pouch, Melon, and Aerow

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After much discussion, a few of us have come to the conclusion that the LC subforum is in dire need of more viability ranking threads.

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Welcome to the LC set viability ranking project. In this project, we will "tier" every Pokemon set based on usefulness. An initial tier list has already been made; if you think something should be moved up or down, post in this thread with your reasoning on why, and the change may be enacted. Feel free to use placements in the LC Viability Rankings to support your argument, but do not rely on them.

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Set Viability Ranking Council
For more controversial cases, the viability ranking council will vote on the Pokemon's tiering.

Aerow

Cheek Pouch

Melonz

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Tier List

Without further ado, here is the initial tier list based on the Pokemon rankings the viability rankings. We will not be ranking D-rank sets in-depth because they are far too niche to be worth consideration here. Please lettuce know if there are any mistakes with the list itself, e.g. the wrong sprite for a set.


S-Rank

These mons have way too many sets that are way too good

Diglett
Life Orb: S
Focus Sash: B+

Mienfoo
Bulky Pivot: S
Choice Scarf: A+
Fast Pivot: A+
Baton Pass: A
Life Orb: B
Bulk Up: B-
Choice Band: B-
Berry Juice: C+

Pawniard
Eviolite: S
Life Orb: A+
Choice Scarf: A
Defensive: B
Rock Polish: C+

Porygon
Tank: S
Wall: A+
Fast Eviolite: A-
Agility: C+
Choice Scarf: C-


A-Rank

These mons have a few super good sets (except for Archen/Chinchou/Drifloon, which have a bunch of decent ones)

A+

Fletchling
Itemless: A+
Berry Juice: B
Natural Gift: C-

Foongus
Pivot: A+

Magnemite
Choice Scarf: A+
Sturdyjuice: A
Eviolite: B+

Shellder
Shell Smash: A-
Choice Scarf: B-
Life Orb: C+

Timburr
Bulk Up: A+
Lure: A-
Fast: B

Vullaby
Offensive Pivot: A+
Defensive: B+
Choice Scarf: C
Nasty Plot: C+

A

Abra
Focus Sash: A
Life Orb: A-
Choice Scarf: C+

Carvanha
Physical: A
Special: A
Berry Juice: C

Chinchou
Bulky Pivot: A
Choice Scarf: A
Fast Pivot: A-
RestTalk: B+
Life Orb: C-

Cottonee
Fast: A
Defensive: B+
Offensive: C

Gastly
Life Orb: A
SubHex: A-
Choice Scarf: B
Subdisable: B-
Trickspecs: C+

Gothita
Choice Scarf: A
Eviolite: A
Life Orb: C

Ponyta
Defensive: A
Life Orb: B
Sunnybeam: B-

Snivy
Eviolite: A
Berry Juice: A
Choice Scarf: C+

A-

Archen
Itemless: B
Offensive Berry Juice: A-
Support: A-
Defensive: B-
Fast Eviolite: B-
Choice Scarf: C-

Corphish
Eviolite: A-
Life Orb: B+
Choice Band: B-
Choice Scarf: C-

Croagunk
Mixed Utility: B+
Nasty Plot: B+
Physical: B+
Life Orb: C+

Drilbur
Support: A-
Life Orb: B
Choice Scarf: B+
Sand Rush: B-

Ferroseed
Eviolite: A-

Omanyte
Shell Smash: A
Support: A-
Rain Dance: C+

Snubbull
Berry Juice: A-
Eviolite: A-

Spritzee
Calm Mind: A-
Cleric: A-

Staryu
Defensive: A-
Life Orb: B+
Offensive Support: C+

Tirtouga
Bulky Shell Smash: A-
Defensive: B
Sturdyjuice: B+

B-rank

These mons have a few somewhat niche but still good sets

B+

Aipom
Eviolite: B-
Life Orb: B+

Bunnelby
Choice Scarf: B
Life Orb: B
Choice Band: C+

Dwebble
Support: B
Shell Smash: B

Hippopotas
Defensive: B+

Houndour
Life Orb: B+
Choice Scarf: B
Eviolite: B-

Larvesta
Eviolite: B+
Choice Scarf: B-

Munchlax
Berry Juice Tank: B
Curse: B
RestTalk Wall: B

Scraggy
Eviolite: B+
Choice Scarf: B
Life Orb: B-
Bulk Up: C

Skrelp
Bulky Attacker: B+
Defensive: B+
Life Orb: C+

Vulpix
Heat Rock: B+
Wall-breaker: B+
Choice Scarf: B

B

Bellsprout
Eviolite: B+
Life Orb: B+

Cranidos
Life Orb: B
Choice Scarf: B-
Eviolite: B-

Doduo
Life Orb: B
Choice Scarf: C

Elekid
Life Orb: B
Berry Juice: C

Onix
Support: B

Pancham
Pivot: B-
Swords Dance: B-
Choice Scarf: C+

Pumpkaboo-Super
Eviolite: B+

Riolu
Swords Dance: B-
Bulk Up: C+

Surskit
Support: B

Taillow
Mixed: B-
Physical: B-
Choice Scarf: C

Torchic
Bulky: B
Life Orb: B

B-

Amaura
Choice Scarf: B-
Bulky Attacker: C

Chespin
Eviolite: C+

Clamperl
Wall-breaker: C-

Honedge
Pursuit: B-
Swords Dance: C-

Lickitung
Defensive: C+

Shellos
Defensive: B-

Slowpoke
Defensive Pivot: B

Stunky
Defensive: B-
Fast: B-
Life Orb: C

Tentacool
Defensive: C+
Offensive: C+

Zigzagoon
Belly Drum: B+

C-rank

These mons have a low number of very niche sets

C+

Aron
Eviolite: C
Life Orb: C
Sturdyjuice: C

Anorith
Support: C+

Axew
Dragon Dance: C

Buneary
Support: C+

Darumaka
Choice Scarf: C+
Choice Band: C

Frillish
Defensive: C
Choice Scarf: C-

Inkay
Choice Scarf: C-

Kabuto
Eviolite: C+
Rain Dance: C-

Koffing
Defensive: C

Lileep
Defensive: C+

Magby
Belly Drum: B-
Life Orb: C

Numel
Defensive: C+

Pumpkaboo-Small
Life Orb: C+

Sandshrew
Sand Rush: B-
Eviolite: C+

Snover
Choice Scarf: C+
Defensive: C+
Life Orb: C

Trubbish
Support: C+

Tyrunt
Dragon Dance: C+
Support: C+

Wynaut
Trapper: C

C

Bulbasaur

Dratini
Dragon Dance: C

Geodude
Support: C-

Meowth
Life Orb: C-

Natu
Eviolite: C-
Life Orb: C-

Purrloin
Prankster: C

Spinarak
Support: C+

Teddiursa
Quick Feet: C

Venipede
Support: C

C-

Cubone
Wall-breaker: C-

Deerling

Goldeen
Offensive: C-

Karrablast
Choice Scarf: C
Eviolite: C-

Larvitar
Dragon Dance: C

Nosepass

Remoraid
Choice Scarf: C-
Life Orb: C-

Rufflet
Bulk Up: C-
Choice Scarf: C-
Life Orb: C-

Shelmet

Togepi
Baton Pass: C+

Wingull

Zorua
Life Orb: C

D-Rank

These mons have a single, super duper niche set that is very rarely worth using

Froakie
Life Orb: C
Choice Scarf: C-

Growlithe
Defensive: C-

Mime Jr
Baton Pass: C-

Munna
Baton Pass: C-

Poliwag
Belly Drum: C


Smog Frog

These sets are totally lame

Mambo's "innovations"

Rankings by set

S-rank

These sets are top tier in the current metagame. They tend to go above and beyond in performing their roles extremely effectively, and do so with negligible support.

S

Bulky Pivot Mienfoo

Choice Scarf Mienfoo

Eviolite Pawniard

Fast Pivot Mienfoo

Tank Porygon

A-Rank

These sets are excellent in the current metagame. They are able to perform their roles very effectively the vast majority of the time with very little support.

A+

Bulk Up Timburr

Choice Scarf Magnemite

Focus Sash Abra

Itemless Fletchling

Life Orb Abra

Life Orb Diglett

Life Orb Gastly

Life Orb Pawniard

Wall Porygon

A

Baton Pass Mienfoo

Berry Juice Fletchling

Berry Juice Snubbull

Bulky Pivot Chinchou

Calm Mind Spritzee

Choice Scarf Chinchou

Cleric Spritzee

Choice Scarf Gothita

Choice Scarf Pawniard

Defensive Ponyta

Fast Vullaby

Itemless Archen

Lure Timburr

Offensive Berry Juice Archen

Pivot Foongus

Shell Smash Omanyte

Sturdyjuice Magnemite

Support Archen

Support Drilbur

Sweeper Snivy

A-

Bulky Attacker Skrelp

Defensive Skrelp

Defensive Staryu

Eviolite Corphish

Eviolite Ferroseed

Eviolite Snubbull

Fast Eviolite Porygon

Fast Pivot Chinchou

Focus Sash Diglett

Heat Rock Vulpix

Life Orb Houndour

Life Orb Mienfoo

Offensive Drifloon

Physical Carvanha

Recycle Drifloon

Shell Smash Shellder

Special Carvanha

Wall-breaker Vulpix

B-Rank

These sets are fairly strong in the current metagame. They are usually able to perform their roles effectively with some support.

B+

Belly Drum Zigzagoon

Bulky Shell Smash Tirtouga

Choice Scarf Bunnelby

Defensive Hippopotas

Defensive Tirtouga

Defensive Vullaby

Eviolite Bellsprout

Eviolite Larvesta

Eviolite Magnemite

Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super

Eviolite Scraggy

Fast Cottonee

Life Orb Bellsprout

Life Orb Bunnelby

Life Orb Corphish

Life Orb Drilbur

Life Orb Staryu

Mixed Utility Croagunk

Nasty Plot Croagunk

Physical Croagunk

RestTalk Chinchou

Sturdyjuice Tirtouga

B

Berry Juice Tank Munchlax

Bulky Torchic

Calm Mind Drifloon

Choice Scarf Drilbur

Choice Scarf Gastly

Choice Scarf Houndour

Choice Scarf Scraggy

Choice Scarf Vulpix

Curse Munchlax

Defensive Cottonee

Defensive Pawniard

Defensive Pivot Slowpoke

Defensive Stunky

Eviolite Gothita

Fast Timburr

Life Orb Cranidos

Life Orb Doduo

Life Orb Elekid

Life Orb Ponyta

Life Orb Torchic

Pivot Pancham

RestTalk Wall Munchlax

Rock Polish Pawniard

Sunnybeam Ponyta

Support Dwebble

Support Surskit

B-

Belly Drum Magby

Bulk Up Mienfoo

Choice Band Corphish

Choice Band Mienfoo

Choice Scarf Amaura

Choice Scarf Cranidos

Choice Scarf Larvesta

Choice Scarf Shellder

Defensive Archen

Defensive Lickitung

Defensive Shellos

Eviolite Aipom

Eviolite Cranidos

Eviolite Houndour

Fast Eviolite Archen

Fast Stunky

Life Orb Aipom

Life Orb Scraggy

Mixed Taillow

Physical Taillow

Pursuit Honedge

Sand Rush Drilbur

Sand Rush Sandshrew

Shell Smash Dwebble

Swords Dance Pancham

Subdisable Gastly

Support Omanyte

Support Onix

Swords Dance Riolu

C-Rank

These sets are decent in the current metagame. They are sometimes able to perform their roles effectively with a substantial amount of support.

C+

Agility Porygon

Baton Pass Drifloon

Baton Pass Togepi

Berry Juice Mienfoo

Bulk Up Riolu

Choice Band Bunnelby

Choice Scarf Abra

Choice Scarf Darumaka

Choice Scarf Pancham

Choice Scarf Snivy

Choice Scarf Snover

Defensive Lileep

Defensive Numel

Defensive Snover

Defensive Tentacool

Dragon Dance Tyrunt

Eviolite Chespin

Eviolite Sandshrew

Life Orb Croagunk

Life Orb Pumpkaboo-Small

Life Orb Shellder

Life Orb Skrelp

Offensive Support Staryu

Offensive Tentacool

Rain Dance Omanyte

Support Anorith

Support Buneary

Support Spinarak

Support Trubbish

Support Tyrunt

Trickspecs Drifloon

Trickspecs Gastly

C

Belly Drum Poliwag

Berry Juice Carvanha

Berry Juice Elekid

Bulk Up Scraggy

Bulky Attacker Amaura

Choice Band Darumaka

Choice Scarf Doduo

Choice Scarf Karrablast

Choice Scarf Taillow

Choice Scarf Vullaby

Defensive Frillish

Defensive Koffing

Dragon Dance Axew

Dragon Dance Dratini

Dragon Dance Larvitar

Eviolite Aron

Eviolite Kabuto

Life Orb Aron

Life Orb Gothita

Life Orb Froakie

Life Orb Magby

Life Orb Snover

Life Orb Stunky

Life Orb Zorua

Natural Gift Fletchling

Offensive Cottonee

Prankster Purrloin

Quick Feet Teddiursa

Sturdyjuice Aron

Support Venipede

Trapper Wynaut

C-

Baton Pass Mime Jr

Baton Pass Munna

Bulk Up Rufflet

Choice Scarf Archen

Choice Scarf Corphish

Choice Scarf Frillish

Choice Scarf Froakie

Choice Scarf Inkay

Choice Scarf Porygon

Choice Scarf Remoraid

Choice Scarf Rufflet

Defensive Growlithe

Defensive Mantyke

Eviolite Karrablast

Eviolite Natu

Life Orb Chinchou

Life Orb Meowth

Life Orb Natu

Life Orb Remoraid

Life Orb Rufflet

Nasty Plot Vullaby

Offensive Goldeen

Rain Dance Kabuto

Rain Dance Mantyke

Support Geodude

Swords Dance Honedge

Wall-breaker Clamperl

Wall-breaker Cubone

D-Rank

These sets have very slight niches in the current metagame. They are occasionally able to perform their roles effectively with a very large amount of support.

Most Choice Band sets

Most Choice Specs sets

Oran Berry Phantump

 

[Corporal Levi]

reserved

 

[TUO]

Foongus only has one set, it is A in the viability rankings, so how is Eviolite Foongus A+? This is a first version i guess but weird. That doesn't make any sense to me unless the set is A+ Material, but its lack of variety holds back the pokemon as a whole from being A. That's still kinda flawed logic though i dont get it. Same goes for Bellsprout being A- when LC Viability rankings puts it at B+

EDIT: OH yeah and Dig too

Oh yeah DDRunt deserves B-, minimum. It really fulfills a nice niche on teams and is practically unwallable. The meta is getting a little slower, and there aren't too much scarf revenge killers, so once you wear down the opposing Fighting-type or smth, Tyrunt does well.

 

[Berks]

I'm assuming that we'll be allowed to post for noms and additional sets soon, so when that's open imma flood this post with edits

Key: useless edits / unresolved edits / resolved edits / comments on resolutions / sets

EDIT ONE: Prepare yourselves

EDIT TWO: I'm not sure exactly what Fast Timburr is unless it's my Scarfed love, and I'm not sure Timburr should be investing if only to get to 14 Speed. Unless it's actually better than I've experienced, it should be C+ at best and removed at worst. (forgot TorchPass existed, my bad o_O)
EDIT THREE: This is a new set to add, an old DPP one that is much less effective that I think warrants C+ rank: LO PrioGunk. It has the ability to clean up on just about anything not named Fletch, including being able to revenge kill SashBra when Abra is still at full health. It's cool. I'll put the set really small (in hindsight, that should have been obvious)

Croagunk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 108 Atk / 196 Def / 108 SpA / 36 SpD
Brave Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Vacuum Wave
- Gunk Shot
​

EDIT FOUR: wtf is LO Pony doing in B- rank?? It may kill itself but it can mitigate all the recoil with Morning Sun since it's so damn fast and is basically an atom bomb. At least put it even with SunnyBeam pls (n_n)

EDIT FIVE: SS Dwebble should be at least one notch lower than Support Dwebble. There are so many better SSers with more power and Dwebble is much better off laying hazards

EDIT SIX: More to come soon

EDIT SEVEN: I believe that, being the most prominent and best Webs setter, Surskit's support set should be moved to mid B as opposed to low B-. It is basically the quintessential mon for the archetype, which, although questionable in viability at times, is still a threat to be reckoned with.

EDIT EIGHT: Choice Scarf Larvesta deserves to be higher than the C+ it currently resides in. It is a great mix up for standard Volt-Turn teams and has a very good STAB combo. Additionally, because it forces switches against many prominent threats, such as Pawniard, it is great for momentum. The set is just as viable (if not more so) as such B- sets as Life Orb Scraggy and Bulk Up Mienfoo. This is why Choice Scarf Larv deserves B-.

aight yeah, nvm new posts and junk

 

[Corporal Levi]

Sorry if it wasn't clear; you're allowed to post now. There's no way that the opinions of cp and I, having written the entire list in like an hour, are going to be accurate.

 

[Coconut]

OK I'm going to start off with Calm Mind Spritzee. And as much as I hate typing, I was rather upset CM Spritz is currently not on the list. I asked Levi and he claimed that it was not different enough to fall out of Evio Spritzee. I disagreed with this and was told to make a post about this. I believe the pink blob of LC warrants it's own slot. I believe that it would be justified somewhere in A.

CM Spritzee is one of the easiest setup sweeper to use in LC. It is a very safe poke, running Wish for healing itself, Protect for wait for the wish health and to scout. Calm Mind allows you to survive any non-SE special attack twice. This gives you time to Wish, Calm Mind and repeat. It is a safe poke that does not need to use Calm Mind but can and effectively sweep with it.

 

[mad0ka]

Please lettuce know if there are any mistakes with the list itself, e.g. the wrong sprite for a set.

/me lettuces

--

forreal close or do something about the other viability thread because it's really redundant and things will be confusing between the two of them

 

[Corporal Levi]

I don't really think the two threads come into conflict because the Pokemon viability thread takes into account a great deal the versatility of a given Pokemon in its ranking, which can be hard to discern from this thread. For example, Corphish may initially appear to be B+ material as opposed to B based on flexibility because it has two different sets in B and a third in B-, but although they all tend to play quite differently and thus warrant separate sets on this list, they share similar checks and counters and thus, flexibility does not actually boost Corphish's viability in this case.
The Pokemon viability rankings are also a lot easier to just skim through, compared to this thread, which is supposed to be more in-depth.
Oh, and there's no way I'm going to make a D-rank list for this thread @.@

 

[absdaddy]

salac berry fletchling>bj
Rest is irrelevant

 

[mad0ka]

One would not necessarily assume that. Besides, what would it matter Corph as a whole being B+ when only its sets are relevant? Really, that's kinda a moot point. This provides the same and more info that the other thread provides, and it hinders conversation in that it's taking place in two different places instead of in one thread.

 

[infamy]

wait, wtf is evio larv doing in b+? its one of the absolute best mons on voltturn which is the best archetype atm, and it really oesnt require as much team support as people think since any good voltturn team needs hazard removal anyway. move this shit to a- at least. ill elaborate more in like 10 hours when im not on mobile if you want.

 

[Shrug]

hi corp levi / cheek / melon, this is a good thread, and y;all nailed some important distinctions (snubs being equally good yet different with evio and bj, for example) but i have a criticism to levy:

B+: Berry Juice Mienfoo
C+: Choice Band Mienfoo

Berry juice mienfoo excells in one regard: unmitigated shitiness. There is no reason to use BJ foo unless you consider using leftovers too trite a way to announce to your opponent that you are bad. If you need recovery, there's a way to do it on literally every other Foo set: switch out or use Drain Punch. If you really need Acro that bad, you can make the unusually bold step of not running an item at all - that way, you can access full power all game.

Bandfoo, by contrast, is the scythe of Jehovah cutting down sinners, the hammer and sickle asserting over a protectorate nation, any lc room user encountering kingmidas in real life and seeing his smug, cocklike face. Essentially, it hits really hard. It has edges over LO - hits harder for stuff like Foongus, and has less recoil which is important because you dont have the cushion of Regen.

just switch their places pls thanks

 

[Merritt]

So um why the hell is Sitrus Berry Phantump considered viable? At all? You don't even mention Oran Berry Phantump, which is pretty much completely superior in every way. If there's some deep underlying meaning to Sitrus Berry please explain, because this isn't Gen III anymore.

In addition, both of Carvanha's best sets are too low. I could see Mixed Vanha being only B+, but for it to have no set above B+ when it's a clear A- to A in terms of viability is a travesty. Carvanha is damn amazing and really doesn't need as much support as you imply.

Berry Juice Fletchling should be lower. It used to be standard but now it's not because honestly it's not all that good. Certainly not better than Flailchling. And Band Fletchling is just... Well why. Band Aerial Ace is weaker than itemless Acrobatics. And Fletchling is slow, so using Band for your U-turns or Return is just so very bad. Unrank it please.

E: And as I argued in the Viability Ranking thread, DD Axew is measurably better than DD Dratini. Put Axew higher or Dratini lower please.

 

[tazz]

focus sash abra to A
bulky pivot chinchou to A+
fast pivot chinchou to A+
Berry juice archen to A+
Eviolite foongus to A (lol)
support tyrunt to C
Scarf gastly to B
Sweeper snivy (that's subglare right?) to B+
sitrus berry phantum to unranked (still better than mambo)

I'll elaborate if needed

 

[Holiday]

So um why the hell is Sitrus Berry Phantump considered viable? At all? You don't even mention Oran Berry Phantump, which is pretty much completely superior in every way. If there's some deep underlying meaning to Sitrus Berry please explain, because this isn't Gen III anymore.

In addition, both of Carvanha's best sets are too low. I could see Mixed Vanha being only B+, but for it to have no set above B+ when it's a clear A- to A in terms of viability is a travesty. Carvanha is damn amazing and really doesn't need as much support as you imply.

Berry Juice Fletchling should be lower. It used to be standard but now it's not because honestly it's not all that good. Certainly not better than Flailchling. And Band Fletchling is just... Well why. Band Aerial Ace is weaker than itemless Acrobatics. And Fletchling is slow, so using Band for your U-turns or Return is just so very bad. Unrank it please.

E: And as I argued in the Viability Ranking thread, DD Axew is measurably better than DD Dratini. Put Axew higher or Dratini lower please.

I think Sitrus Berry was a joke but idk I'll look into it. Oran Berry obviously outclasses it.

I do think we should move one of Carv's sets to A-, but the gist of it was that it is an A- ranked mon on viability because of it's ability to run two different sets each at B+ and it's the versatility of this that makes it A- know what I mean. (Still physical fish is A- imo)

Banded Fletchling isn't ranked anywhere. It says "most Choice Band users", with Fletchling being the (random) Pokemon we put next to it. In this category would still have stuff like CB Cranidos If you'd like for us to change it we will lmao.

We'll look into Axew and Dratini.

 

[Corporal Levi]

In an effort to make this thread accurate enough for use as an actual resource as quickly as possible, I'll be implementing any reasonable changes I see without the discussion that would occur beforehand in the LC viability thread. As such, feel free to object to these changes even after they have already been made.
Berry Juice Mienfoo: B+ -> C+
Calm Mind Spritzee: Unranked -> A
Choice Band Mienfoo: C+ -> B
Choice Scarf Gastly: B+ -> B
Dragon Dance Tyrunt: C -> C+
Eviolite Bellsprout: A- -> B+
Eviolite Larvesta: B+ -> A-
Eviolite Spritzee -> Cleric Spritzee
Flail Fletchling: A- -> A
Focus Sash Abra: A+ -> A
Life Orb Ponyta: B- -> B
Physical Carvanha: B+ -> A-
Pivot Foongus: A+ -> A ;;
Shell Smash Dwebble: B -> B-
Sitrus Berry Phantump -> Oran Berry Phantump
Sweeper Snivy (this includes Subglare, yes): B- -> B+

EDIT: OH yeah and Dig too

Oh yeah DDRunt deserves B-, minimum. It really fulfills a nice niche on teams and is practically unwallable. The meta is getting a little slower, and there aren't too much scarf revenge killers, so once you wear down the opposing Fighting-type or smth, Tyrunt does well.

We didn't write this with the intent of following the LC viability rankings perfectly as there are of course some things with the list that cp and I disagreed with. With that being said, I do plan on nominating both Diglett and Gothita for A-rank in due time.
I moved Tyrunt up a bit because C-rank probably didn't do its sweeping potential justice, but before I move it up further, I would like reasoning for why it should be used over Shell Smashers, like Tirtouga for the Sturdyjuice set and Srock Tirtouga/Omanyte for the Strong Jaw set, because I don't think being able to set up on Chinchou a bit more easily warrants a drastic rise.

EDIT TWO: I'm not sure exactly what Fast Timburr is unless it's my Scarfed love, and I'm not sure Timburr should be investing if only to get to 14 Speed. Unless it's actually better than I've experienced, it should be C+ at best and removed at worst

EDIT THREE: This is a new set to add, an old DPP one that is much less effective that I think warrants C+ rank: LO PrioGunk. It has the ability to clean up on just about anything not named Fletch, including being able to revenge kill SashBra when Abra is still at full health. It's cool. I'll put the set really small

Croagunk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 108 Atk / 196 Def / 108 SpA / 36 SpD
Brave Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Vacuum Wave
- Gunk Shot
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EDIT FOUR: wtf is LO Pony doing in B- rank?? It may kill itself but it can mitigate all the recoil with Morning Sun since it's so damn fast and is basically an atom bomb. At least put it even with SunnyBeam pls

Unfortunately, by Fast Timburr, I am not referring to your Scarf Timburr set, amazing as it is, but rather just the variant used as a Cursechic recipient. It's easily one of the most potent Cursechic recipients because on top of its good bulk to get it into play and solid damage output, it doesn't mind being hit by Scald, a commonly used move against Torchic.
By LO Croagunk, which is currently under C+, I was referring to priogunk.
I'll bump LO Pony up to B because its high base Speed and acceptable bulk arguably make up for its lack of priority and reliance on recoil moves compared to the other B-rank wall-breakers, but before it jumps all the way to A-, I need reasoning as to why its advantages are significantly more important than the advantages of, say, Houndour or Doduo. I'm not willing to just raise all the wall-breakers because their frailty often gives them a difficult match-up against various faster teams. SunnyBeam Ponyta won't drop unless good reasoning is given for such a change because I feel like its advantages in being able to take on key Water-types are adequate to make up for its unreliability compared to the physical set to warrant its current placement.

just switch their places pls thanks

I think I implemented the gist of your suggestion, but I left CB foo at B because I'll need further reasoning for it to be considered better than the other wall-breakers in that rank. LO Mienfoo is in A- over other wall-breakers because the Regenerator variant ridiculously resilient for a Pokemon that can 2HKO Hippopotas with a physical attack.

Berry Juice Fletchling should be lower. It used to be standard but now it's not because honestly it's not all that good. Certainly not better than Flailchling. And Band Fletchling is just... Well why. Band Aerial Ace is weaker than itemless Acrobatics. And Fletchling is slow, so using Band for your U-turns or Return is just so very bad. Unrank it please.

E: And as I argued in the Viability Ranking thread, DD Axew is measurably better than DD Dratini. Put Axew higher or Dratini lower please.

I would argue that Berry Juice Fletchling is still very potent because similarly to Flailchling, it is able to play off the assumption that Fletchling is itemless to set up boosts where it otherwise could not; an extra Swords Dance is all that Fletchling needs to break through the likes of Spritzee and defensive Porygon after Stealth Rock. Against teams where this won't make a difference, Berry Juice still isn't too difficult to pop early on given that most moves will put Fletchling under half, it's weak to Stealth Rock, and I suppose you could even try running Substitute.
Despite Dratini not being quite as scary as a Dragon Dance sweeper, a priority attack as powerful as LO Extremespeed actually has a lot of utility. I think that Espeed alone is enough to put the sweeping sets of the two on around the same level because in a sweeping role alone, both already face competition from Shell Smashers, who are able to become faster and more powerful after a single turn of set-up, so it's not a particularly important niche. I'm still thinking this through, though, so feel free to convince me that I'm wrong here.

bulky pivot chinchou to A+
fast pivot chinchou to A+
Berry juice archen to A+

I can't say that I outright disagree with any of these changes, but I'm a bit hesitant to move them up because they don't really single-handedly dictate the course of a match like the other A+ sets. I suppose they still perform their assigned roles very well and they don't require very much support to do what they do, but I just feel like their frailty leaves them especially easy to wear down and prone to lures, as well as unable to go above and beyond the way current A+ support sets like Ponyta and Porygon do.
edit: Alright, I'll move bj chen up, but I'm still unsure of Chinchou

Let me know if I missed anything

 

[tazz]

I can't say that I outright disagree with any of these changes, but I'm a bit hesitant to move them up because they don't really single-handedly dictate the course of a match like the other A+ sets. I suppose they still perform their assigned roles very well and they don't require very much support to do what they do, but I just feel like their frailty leaves them especially easy to wear down and prone to lures, as well as unable to go above and beyond the way current A+ support sets like Ponyta and Porygon do.

Let me know if I missed anything

Archen is one of the most splashable mons in the meta, and will almost always counter fletch + defog, and provide great offensive presence. There is very little that prevents it from doing its job, and should certainly be A+. It is also very hard to switch into for a lot of teams, as anything not extremely bulky is at the very least 2HKOd

Chinchou is a little more borderline, but I think both sets are still worthy of A+. The momentum that chinchou provides is amazing for all balance and offense teams, only being stopped by porygon (and goldeen but who runs that @.@).
Chinchou is debatable as to whether it's A+ or A (leans more towards A+, tbh), but imo BJ archen is one of the best sets you can run and should be A+

 

[The Avalanches]

Choice Scarf Drilbur to B-/C+, ORAS really kicked this set in the balls with bulkier stuff like Pancham and Pumpkaboo emerging.

 

[Goldland]

I'd like to propose some additions:
C-:
Support Onix
Scarf Machop
Scarf Mankey

 

[mad0ka]

Scarf Mankey should stay in D; it has nothing over other fighting type scarfers and other scarfers at all for that matter.

 

[tazz]

I'd like to propose some additions:
C-:
Support Onix
Scarf Machop
Scarf Mankey

There's no real reason to use those two over scarf foo, So they should stay in D. What do you mean by support onix?

 

[Coconut]

I think scarf Machop has enough of a niche to be in C-. Granted, it's one of the most annoying tactics in LC, but it still is something that Foo cannot do.

 

[Goldland]

There's no real reason to use those two over scarf foo, So they should stay in D. What do you mean by support onix?

By support onix i meant the stealth rocks/taunt set which some people use as a lead and bird check.

About the scarfers, i actually wanted just to nominate scarf machop at first, because scarf dynamic punch is quite a niche and is a killer to any "frail" checks to fighting types. Even sash abra potentially has an hard time revenge killing since confusion can render it useless with a 50% probability.

But then mankey, for who doesn't know, has close combat, gunk shot and defiant, which makes him a scarfer quite on the same level of machop but different utility. Scarf foo does outclass mankey mainly because of knock off and regenerator, that's why scarf mienfoo is rank S, but a 100% accuracy nuke in close combat in trade of HJK along with gunk shot for coverage is a decent trade up that might fit some offensive teams better, or if you really need a fighting scarfer that doesn't really risk a miss on revenge killing like HJK does more often than one would like. scarf Defiant makes mankey have a very small niche of being able to check sticky webs to some point as well.

 

[boo836]

Sash abra ought to stay in A+. It's almost unique in its role as an insurance policy and ends the sweeps of anything not named Shellder or MixHelix.

 

[Corporal Levi]

Choice Scarf Drilbur: B -> B-
Choice Scarf Larvesta: C+ -> B-
Support Onix: Unranked -> C-
Support Surskit: B- -> B

Scarf Machop
Scarf Mankey

The two definitely have their advantages over other Fighting-types; no other Pokemon in the game can boast access to No Guard Dynamic Punch or a fast Defiant 120 bp STAB attack. However, having a niche is only enough to warrant D-rank; the question here is whether the niches are actually effective enough for them to move to C-. This is debatable so I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more on this topic, but as it is, I feel as if Machop is a bit too reliant on luck to do very much at all against teams with a Fighting-type check, which is pretty much all of them, and its reliance on Choice Scarf to hold its own against offensive teams in the slightest means that it's generally too weak to break through these checks for a teammate. Mankey's main advantage is Defiant, which isn't all that notable because once it's affected by webs, Mankey will only reach 16 Speed (25 speed rounds down), leaving it vulnerable to a lot of 17/18/20 speed Pokemon that are prevalent on webs, so it's not actually an especially effective webs check in LC OU; Gunk Shot, which the bulkier and generally more useful Pancham already packs, isn't significantly more effective than Knock Off + Poison Jab Mienfoo or Timburr as a Spritzee lure. Close Combat vs High Jump Kick isn't a huge deal because 90% accuracy is already pretty reliable, and Mienfoo can pack Regenerator so that a mispredict against a Ghost-type won't usually be too detrimental, either.

Sash abra ought to stay in A+. It's almost unique in its role as an insurance policy and ends the sweeps of anything not named Shellder or MixHelix.

I feel like sashbra is one of the more controversial sets in this thread, so I'd love to see some discussion on this. My reasoning for moving sashbra down is that even though it's of course an excellent safety net, there are a lot of ways to build around it and it needs things weakened before it can do its job. A few dedicated win conditions like Shellder and Dwebble Abra has no hope of checking in the first place, and sweepers like Omanyte and Scraggy are able to just take advantage of Abra's abysmal bulk to slightly change their sets to include multi-hit moves. Even against Pokemon that do not have these methods, Abra really lacks power without Life Orb; even Fletchling and Bulk Up Timburr need to be weakened beforehand if Abra is to revenge-kill them. Abra is also often only able to work once per match against teams with more than one sweeper, keeping in mind that this is just as a revenge-killer. Of course, pretty much the only thing remotely comparable to sashbra is enduremite, and Abra is still really effective overall, but it's not like A is a bad rank in the first place.

EDIT SEVEN: I believe that, being the most prominent and best Webs setter, Surskit's support set should be moved to mid B as opposed to low B-. It is basically the quintessential mon for the archetype, which, although questionable in viability at times, is still a threat to be reckoned with.

EDIT EIGHT: Choice Scarf Larvesta deserves to be higher than the C+ it currently resides in. It is a great mix up for standard Volt-Turn teams and has a very good STAB combo. Additionally, because it forces switches against many prominent threats, such as Pawniard, it is great for momentum. The set is just as viable (if not more so) as such B- sets as Life Orb Scraggy and Bulk Up Mienfoo. This is why Choice Scarf Larv deserves B-.

It'd probably be easier to catch your suggestions if you made a new post since I nearly missed them (even though they're bright red), but yea both of the suggestions are fine in my book