I can vouch for this set. The damn misses are really annoying.
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Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]
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oh my lord. this set is so terribad using 4 moves any normal pokemon would never even consider using...but...i actually cant even argue with it. struggle bug, and mud slap are both detrimental to most special attackers (especially those which lack setup) and it also functions well as a stall breaker.. i applaud the creativity.
It's shit like this that makes me wonder why we even bother letting mud slap run around.
Wait so you wouldn't consider using Toxic on a normal Pokemon?
But onto that set, its pretty much the definition of cancer.
After using Mega Medicham for a while (especially the Lucario set), I say its very good. Its very difficult to wall due the fact that Suicune is cleanly 2HKO'd by +0 Close Combat and +2 Extremespeed 1HKO so many threats (including Lando T and most -atespeeders). I'd say its as threatening as other -atespeeders.
HOWEVER, it has a few( but kinda frustrating) flaws.
1. Its MUCH frailer than other Espeeders. A Fake Out from Protean Marowak (its kinda common) does 45-54% to Mega Medicham, while to Mega Pinsir and mega Altaria, it only does around 32-39%. To Mega Glalie and Mega Lopunny, it does around 40-48%, but still below 50%. This means after it killed two pokes, Protean Marowak kills it, while the other can get at least three kills.
2. Gengar. Other Mega Extremespeeders can hit Gengar because either it got -ate or it got Scrappy. Mega Medicham? No way. Gengar is managable if you use something like Scrafty set (it has DD and Knock Off).
3. Protean users who have Shadow Sneak. Sure, your Extremespeed is faster, but its kinda frustrating when a Protean user KO your poke with Shadow Sneak and you can't revenge it with Espeed, while other Mega Extremespeeders can due to -ate and Scrappy. Protean Shadow Sneakers can also revenge the Scrafty set because it has no priority.
Overall, its good. Its main weakness is Gengar (the only relevant Ghost that is faster) and Protean users. If I would put it in viability ranking, its somewhere in A.
HOWEVER, it has a few( but kinda frustrating) flaws.
1. Its MUCH frailer than other Espeeders. A Fake Out from Protean Marowak (its kinda common) does 45-54% to Mega Medicham, while to Mega Pinsir and mega Altaria, it only does around 32-39%. To Mega Glalie and Mega Lopunny, it does around 40-48%, but still below 50%. This means after it killed two pokes, Protean Marowak kills it, while the other can get at least three kills.
2. Gengar. Other Mega Extremespeeders can hit Gengar because either it got -ate or it got Scrappy. Mega Medicham? No way. Gengar is managable if you use something like Scrafty set (it has DD and Knock Off).
3. Protean users who have Shadow Sneak. Sure, your Extremespeed is faster, but its kinda frustrating when a Protean user KO your poke with Shadow Sneak and you can't revenge it with Espeed, while other Mega Extremespeeders can due to -ate and Scrappy. Protean Shadow Sneakers can also revenge the Scrafty set because it has no priority.
Overall, its good. Its main weakness is Gengar (the only relevant Ghost that is faster) and Protean users. If I would put it in viability ranking, its somewhere in A.
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Something I haven't seen mentioned yet:
Nidoking (Raikou) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
Raikou inherits from Nidoking to get an obscenely powerful Thunderbolt, and of course all the rest of Nidoking's ridiculous coverage. Raikou's high speed allows it to hit fast, frail Pokemon and Sheer Force + LO means that it can rip holes in the bulkiest of walls. Sheer Force also means no LO damage. I've had a lot of success with this set.
Nidoking (Raikou) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
Raikou inherits from Nidoking to get an obscenely powerful Thunderbolt, and of course all the rest of Nidoking's ridiculous coverage. Raikou's high speed allows it to hit fast, frail Pokemon and Sheer Force + LO means that it can rip holes in the bulkiest of walls. Sheer Force also means no LO damage. I've had a lot of success with this set.
ehh...not quite a ohko, and
overall, id say medicham deserves A- or B+ as it serves a similar niche as loppuny, while also solidifying its niche by not fearing unaware, while at least maintaining a solid offensive presence against other team archeotypes.
WIIIITH the benifit of realising it doesnt actually 2hko unawarecune...but it comes close enough that prior damage easily nets the ko
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Umm... I think you use the regular Medicham calc. It does 1HKO.
+2 252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 346-408 (108.4 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As for Suicune,
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The calc you posted is from the regular Medicham, which has 60 base Atk.
ahh shit, your right, my apolgies...christ...yeah...okay...recalcing doublade...skarm and whatnot...i agree A-/A is definatly a good spot for it (lop still handles offense a bit better, only needing help in the stall department with unaware really) but medicham is one hell of a wallbreaker (potentially 2hkos doublade if running EQ for christs sake)
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 144-170 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO
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So while we're waiting for a decision to made about Assist & Arena trap I'd like to go over the rankings to give my opinion, and to spure up some discussion. Keep in mind I'm mainly a stall player but I can use offence aswell
S Rank
Yup, maybe even move it up to S+ because of how amazing Landorus-T is, running so many sets and being uncounterable
A+ Rank
Move it down to A rank, it's good in theory but it's pretty easy to check. Explosion is cool but as an Ice abuser I feel it's sort of Outclassed by Mega Glalie. Also being 100% countered by Unaware Suicune is also a
It's good here
It's good here, maybe even move it up to S-, It's uncounterable and can run so many sets, it's not even funny.
A rank. It's checked by Landorus T and dies to all kinds of BB's so it's not going to be sweeping anything, Spore is nice and all but that's why it would be A rank
S (or S-) it completely destroys stall. It can set up behind a sub and start shell smashing bypassing Unaware and status. I've yet to find a check on Stall teams to use. Offense also gets destroyed by the Sucker punch set, while stall gets destroyed by Shell smash Knock off
Fine here
Fine here, discussing S- rank would be nice
A rank
A rank is fine, possibly A+ it has a lot of sets who are all good. Magic bounce, Unaware, Quiver dance, Magic guard ect
Go to A-, I don't understand why it's A. It still has the same problems only it's a good pivot, but not A rank. I expect A ranks to have atleast a couple sets, Snorlax has two who are very similar
A is fine, mostly because I don't know how it does against offence. It does nothing versus Stall lol
Possibly A+ rank, it can shell smash to great effect and it still does a ton of damage. It doesn't lack a move pool either
Move Chansey up to A+, it's so amazing. Magic bounce, Metal burst, Will o wisp and recover is a godsent. Unaware can be used as well to destroy any special attacker
Fine
Fine
Aegislash is better than Doublade. Aegislash has a special bulk which is amazing, as the meta is unpredictable as hell.
Fine
S Rank
A+ Rank
A rank
A rank. It's checked by Landorus T and dies to all kinds of BB's so it's not going to be sweeping anything, Spore is nice and all but that's why it would be A rank
Not for Malamar-variants.
252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 255-301 (78.9 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Terrakion can do more than just be a Breloom inheritor.
Aegislash is better than Doublade. Aegislash has a special bulk which is amazing, as the meta is unpredictable as hell.
Aegislash has no offensive presence at all.
Turn 13 of this replay was so haxy lol. Crit+para, and full para activated all on the same turn. That set does seem annoying, innovative, and useful, however--the only problem with using it is whether or not you have the time to stall the shit out of everything lmao.
And Terrakion does what in return?
On another note, I have some questions I was hoping some of you could answer. Most answers will of course be different, so I'm just curious about people's answers:
- What's the best physical wall?
- What's the best special wall?
- What's the best wall in general?
- Thoughts on Arena Trap?
- What's the best wall breaker?
- What's the best set-up sweeper?
- What's the best Protean abuser?
- Thoughts on Final Gambit?
- What's a really underrated set?
- What should be used less often/is outclassed by something else?
252 Atk Terrakion Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 105-125 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Terrakion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 171-202 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Note that this means Terrakion can KO a Landorus-Therian that foolishly switches in on the Superpower, let alone one that waits one turn too many. Now, of course a lot of BB Landorus spec for bulk, but this still hurts and prevents Landorus BB from being as straightforward a check as you may it sound. Not only that, but if I remove Landorus' Band from the calc (Whether due to switching in on a Knock Off -maybe earlier in the match- or because it's carrying Leftovers or something) we get...
252+ Atk Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 169-201 (52.3 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
which is considerably less threatening, and if Landorus-Therian takes one turn too long to switch in this becomes a 3HKO and Landorus-Therian flat-out loses.
Malamar-Terrakion is only not a problematic threat to Unaware Pokemon. Even Mega Altaria isn't a perfectly reliable check via Extreme Speed.
252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Extreme Speed vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 242-288 (74.9 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
1. Doublade or Suicune
2. Chansey (duh)
3. Suicune
4. BAN
5. Mega Medicham, Ursaring, or Landorus-T
6. Bisharp or BellySpeed Mega Glalie
7. Azelf
8. Only good with Arena Trap on Wailord, Blissey, or Chansey, but they abuse it really well
9. Either this:
Bisharp @ Lum Berry/Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Knock Off
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet/Superpower
or this:
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 212 Atk / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
10. Haven't played too many matches vs. new players, so idk what shit people think is good rn lol
I don't know if this was mentioned but you can get a Chansey to inherit Transform from Mew, and still get all of the other chansey common moves + Synchronize if you switch on a status.
If M-Gengar was allowed, (saying this just for the lolz, one of you might think of how to make this work with another pokemon), you could make him inherit from Delcatty Normalize+Assist, forcing Assist to pick Skill Swap (with a dedicated assist team), then going mega to trap your enemy and have him only use Normal type moves. Now you can setup Calm Mind and sweep the team with BoltBeam/Shadow Ball/Hyper Voice. You can Skill Swap the Shadow Tag if you see you might live a hit and get a better ability.
Similarly, you could use Mega-Sableye inheriting from Delcatty, but use Cosmic Power/Toxic/Wish/Assist and Entrainment instead of Skill Swap. Who is a good Entrainment user...well, know everyone can be Truant Durant
If M-Gengar was allowed, (saying this just for the lolz, one of you might think of how to make this work with another pokemon), you could make him inherit from Delcatty Normalize+Assist, forcing Assist to pick Skill Swap (with a dedicated assist team), then going mega to trap your enemy and have him only use Normal type moves. Now you can setup Calm Mind and sweep the team with BoltBeam/Shadow Ball/Hyper Voice. You can Skill Swap the Shadow Tag if you see you might live a hit and get a better ability.
Similarly, you could use Mega-Sableye inheriting from Delcatty, but use Cosmic Power/Toxic/Wish/Assist and Entrainment instead of Skill Swap. Who is a good Entrainment user...well, know everyone can be Truant Durant
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Is there any particular reason for 44 SpA EVs?
A little while ago I had a Slurpuff set for sweeping. And I think this metagame only makes it stronger.
Scizor @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Drain Punch
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum
- Return
Inherits from Slurpuff.
Scizor @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Drain Punch
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum
- Return
Inherits from Slurpuff.
Whether or not inheriting from Surpluff is a good choice in this metagame, you should use something with STAB, ex. Terrakion.
Mkay :)
Improved set:
Terrakion @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Drain Punch
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum
- Return
Improved set:
Terrakion @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Drain Punch
- Play Rough
- Belly Drum
- Return
Why wait?
I'm just going to post a list of things I think can be considered possible(as in, we definitely shouldn't unban ubers not on the list)
Blazikenite, Darkrai, Shaymin-Sky, Deoxys-Speed
..and that's really it.
I'd argue for ShayminS/Blaznite unban, and I'm unsure about the other two.
y
Actually Aegi can use a set like this:
Trevenant(Aegislash) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Def; 252 HP / 252 SpD
Nature: Bold / Calm
-Curse
-Leech Seed
-Protect
-Will-O-Wisp
While it focuses on passive damage, it can really screw an opponent mid-late game. Especially with hazard support. It isn't a bad set and the fact that the only ways to avoid getting cursed is through Crafty Shield and Magic Guard make it useful against Unaware, Magic Bouce, stall mons that run protect, etc..
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Mega Medi inheriting from lucario can pack bullet punch to get past gengar. Other than that this is a good illustration of its weaknesses.
Weavile: Weavile took some convincing when I was doing the viability rankings, and the biggest thing I can tell you is to talk to me on it, because I am its biggest advocate. The main thing I feel it does so well is it absolutely rapes offensive teams. Besides being a lant check which is huge, it tears apart typical teams with its high power moves. Dark void sets get past intimidate suicune, and all kinds of pivot sets can be used as well, although the refrigerate set is by far its best. Only the stall archetype - the one that carries suicune - has a reliable counter. It revenges so many mons with its blazing speed and ice shard revenges most gale wings users, while having the power to plow many offensive teams. Its explosion gives it basically free kills when suicune isn't around to spoil its fun. Outclassed by glalie? Glalie doesn't have 125 speed to work with, and most of its sets don't explode on typical checks. Glalie also takes up a valuable mega slot and does not pack the immediate physical power that weavile does (Glalie usually wants to set up, while weavile just slaps shit with high power attacks).So while we're waiting for a decision to made about Assist & Arena trap I'd like to go over the rankings to give my opinion, and to spure up some discussion. Keep in mind I'm mainly a stall player but I can use offence aswell
S Rank
Yup, maybe even move it up to S+ because of how amazing Landorus-T is, running so many sets and being uncounterable
A+ Rank
Move it down to A rank, it's good in theory but it's pretty easy to check. Explosion is cool but as an Ice abuser I feel it's sort of Outclassed by Mega Glalie. Also being 100% countered by Unaware Suicune is also a
It's good here
It's good here, maybe even move it up to S-, It's uncounterable and can run so many sets, it's not even funny.
A rank. It's checked by Landorus T and dies to all kinds of BB's so it's not going to be sweeping anything, Spore is nice and all but that's why it would be A rank
S (or S-) it completely destroys stall. It can set up behind a sub and start shell smashing bypassing Unaware and status. I've yet to find a check on Stall teams to use. Offense also gets destroyed by the Sucker punch set, while stall gets destroyed by Shell smash Knock off
Fine here
Fine here, discussing S- rank would be nice
A rank
A rank is fine, possibly A+ it has a lot of sets who are all good. Magic bounce, Unaware, Quiver dance, Magic guard ect
Go to A-, I don't understand why it's A. It still has the same problems only it's a good pivot, but not A rank. I expect A ranks to have atleast a couple sets, Snorlax has two who are very similar
A is fine, mostly because I don't know how it does against offence. It does nothing versus Stall lol
Possibly A+ rank, it can shell smash to great effect and it still does a ton of damage. It doesn't lack a move pool either
Move Chansey up to A+, it's so amazing. Magic bounce, Metal burst, Will o wisp and recover is a godsent. Unaware can be used as well to destroy any special attacker
Fine
Fine
Aegislash is better than Doublade. Aegislash has a special bulk which is amazing, as the meta is unpredictable as hell.
Fine
Glalie-mega is one of two mons I would consider moving to S rank atm, but I really don't think its at that level. Its versatility is very noticeable, and I am keeping an eye on it.
Terrakion has extreme versatility, as shown by the number of sets on it. Contrary, Technician, Adaptability, you name it. There are many more sets it runs, but the main reason it is so high is because so many theorymons are best ran by it. Hazard stacking Terrakion is something I just theorymonned last night, and so far its proven effective. Its just too versatile and unpredictable to have in anything but A+.
Gyarados doesn't get up subs against stall. Its best in A+; stall is just not passive enough for it to be a highly effective stallbreaker. While it can destroy much of the metagame, it is SR weak, can have difficulty setting up against offense, is weak to the recent influx in espeed spam, etc. Staying in A+
Suicune for S rank is a viable discussion since its so amazing, and I'm going to figure it out. It walls so much of the metagame and is usable on a majority of less offensive teams. Will ask around on this one.
Snorlax has problems, sure, but its main issue, terrakion, is decreasing in usage of wallbreaking sets. PH Snorlax is so famous for being ridiculously hard for offensive teams to handle. Its very bulky, has a great source of recovery, and has immense offensive presence. Facade does tons of damage even uninvested for such a bulky mon, and it also runs swords dance. Knock off helps it even more against offense, since many of those threats rely on their items to be fully effective. I favor it staying in A for now, although I'm open to other options.
Mega Metagross actually misses some important KOs after a shift gear without an adamant nature, and its forced to run hasty on that set. Can you refresh my memory on its SS set please?
Chansey may be moving DOWN soon. Its extremely passive for this metagame without metal burst, since it can no longer inherit from sable-mega, and becomes setup bait when not on its unaware set. The unaware set has a good movepool, but again, lacks the offensive presence to be useful enough to deter switches for stall. Its staying in A for now, and may move down due to the passivity in the future.
Doublade? uhh.....Aegislash has one viable moveset: its own. Otherwise, its COMPLETE lack of ANY offensive presence renders it almost useless against the power of the tier.
Its simple: In this metagame, you can't beat offense by passively doing damage, because you will get overpowered; you have to use offensive presence to threaten offensive mons immediately while tanking their attacks. This is why we are seeing mons like AV Regen Entei on stall teams.
1. Suicune
2. There isn't a true special wall, but Cresselia is probably the best one.
3. Suicune, again. Checking 90% of the metagame and countering about 60 is pretty damn good imo.
4. Not going there again.
5. Wallbreaker, not stallbreaker...Probably T-Tar or Mega Zard X.
6. So few of them...maybe Gyarados-Mega or setup Lant
7. Azelf
8. I would rather use lures than arena trap.
9. Excadrill (from luc-mega)
10. Aegislash (outclassed by doublade)
Edit:
updated viability rankings, let me know if I missed anything.
Salamence placed in A-
Ursaring B- to B+
Mamoswine B to B+
Throh placed in B
Entei B- to B
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Boost the power of Fire Blast/Thunderbolt, especially if you nab a competitive boost (but that is why there is more Atk investment than SpA)
I would recommend 4 in HP so Sitrus Berry activates after you Belly Drum, and also, run Adamant, no need for a speed boosting nature, really, when you have Unburden.
Phantom Force is an option as well for stalling for Leech Seed/Curse damage, probably better than Protect, as it does some damage and doesn't make you complete Taunt bait, while still taking 2 turns (on one of which you can't be hit).
Fine, I don't use Weavile so I wont bicker about it, does jack shit to stall though.
Move it up man, It's amazing. Suicune for life
You're correct, A+ is fine for terrakion
Mega Gyarados sets up on Suicune a saple on Stall, it also beats it. Mega Gyarados sets up on Cresslia as it often lacks anything to hit it with. Mega Gyarados sets up on Chansey, as it doesn't run SToss anymore
I agree with Suicune to S rank
Mega Metagross can inherit from Carracost for shell smash, Iron head, Zen headbutt and Low kick (Or superpower)
What are you talking about? Chansey can inherit from Mega Sableye just fine, Metal burst Will o wisp recover all the way son
It can also use Prankster Murkrow, it's great.
I prefer Aegislash and I believe my word does have some merit as i've used both. It isn't crippled by Knock off like Doublade and since I use it as much rapid spinner and Knock off is so common I wouldn't advice using it. Aegislash is also more bulky on both sides which is amazing in the metagame as it allows it check not only physical attackers, but special ones as well. It has many sets, and they're not crippled by Knock off. Prankster Perish song mean look, Levitate will o wisp, Flash fire Will o wisp, Levitate Rapid spin ect ect.
I believe my ranking on the ladder and team proves you wrong. The strongest move I have on mine is uninvested Hippowdown and I'm ranked nr 2 I believe.
Why does nothing on the viability rankings have Volbeat as a possible donor?
It can run Tail Glow, Baton Pass, Encore, and Tailwind, as well as having recovery, Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Substitute. It's certainly not metagame-defining, but a t the very least deserves a place on some pokemon on the rankings, i.e. Aegislash, Mew, maybe Mega Diancie, a few others.
It can run Tail Glow, Baton Pass, Encore, and Tailwind, as well as having recovery, Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Substitute. It's certainly not metagame-defining, but a t the very least deserves a place on some pokemon on the rankings, i.e. Aegislash, Mew, maybe Mega Diancie, a few others.
Ok so the thread is out of order for me and its very confusing so sorry if I fuck this up. +
When you said suicune for life I am assuming you meant glalie since that was the order. I am skeptical and will watch it.
Chansey is almost unusable atm because of how passive it is. Inherting from mega sable is not nearly as good as regular since the lack of prankster makes it easy for threats to do...things...to it. I.e. taunt or sub. Mega Gyarados also doesn't want to try to set up on cress since too often it will wisp it using prankster.
I haven't seen that megagross set, I would like to see it in action (I will test it sometime) before I rank it up. It looks interesting however.
Aegislash is too passive, and I said it before. Ladder says very little in this metagame, and tbh tournaments don't say that much right now with all the upstart players going around. Passive stall works on the ladder because people get impatient and use inferior sets. Against a player like grurk, me, snaq, or lcass, you *might* find you have more trouble. I'm not saying you are bad or that you aren't good, because I am sure you are, I am saying that 1. You shouldn't doubt MY skill and 2. Numbers don't prove you are a good player. Sorry if I come off wrong, but if you want to continue this argument talk with Adrian Marin, who is, obviously, the best staller in the tier (or is not trying) and is actively discouraging the use of passive stall.
Weavile can do work against stall with explosion especially, if they predict wrong with suicune something will die.
When you said suicune for life I am assuming you meant glalie since that was the order. I am skeptical and will watch it.
Chansey is almost unusable atm because of how passive it is. Inherting from mega sable is not nearly as good as regular since the lack of prankster makes it easy for threats to do...things...to it. I.e. taunt or sub. Mega Gyarados also doesn't want to try to set up on cress since too often it will wisp it using prankster.
I haven't seen that megagross set, I would like to see it in action (I will test it sometime) before I rank it up. It looks interesting however.
Aegislash is too passive, and I said it before. Ladder says very little in this metagame, and tbh tournaments don't say that much right now with all the upstart players going around. Passive stall works on the ladder because people get impatient and use inferior sets. Against a player like grurk, me, snaq, or lcass, you *might* find you have more trouble. I'm not saying you are bad or that you aren't good, because I am sure you are, I am saying that 1. You shouldn't doubt MY skill and 2. Numbers don't prove you are a good player. Sorry if I come off wrong, but if you want to continue this argument talk with Adrian Marin, who is, obviously, the best staller in the tier (or is not trying) and is actively discouraging the use of passive stall.
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