SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

I am worrief that Goodra might leave the team.
"Goodra, go over the rainbow! " episode title really sounds like he's leaving.
I'm hoping that isn't the cAr. Granted the span of evolution to Goodra only took a few weeks but it would suck if it were to leave. I saw people.mentioning a possible Pidgeot scenario and considering the hints of what happened it wouldn't be a stretch. But I really don't want that to happen
 
Found something I thought would be an interesting read concerning the original series. Please note that I don't know if this is entirely credible.
Shadao from TV Tropes Forums said:
Now here's a curious thing I've learned about Takeshi Shudō and his intended ending for the anime. Back when the anime was going to be a year and a half long, Shudō apparently wanted Pokémon to end with a revolt or rebellion of the Pokémon, who made Pikachu their leader and Meowth some ambassador or translator. I haven't found much since then until now. From this blog I participated in discussing, the blogger said this:

That revolution ending was what he originally thought (or should say fantasized, during his bedridden period) for Movie03 (aka currently the Entei movie), so in the middle of Johto saga. He wanted to end the Pokemon series in whatever possible method, as he was also feel painful of watching the Pokemon anime becoming a series not considering the feelings of the audience, merely the concern of is it profitable, hence needed to elongate the show as long as possible. But of course such wish is not possible, immediately rejected by his superior. Shudo Takeshi's originally planned ending during the first OS Indigo League saga, was having Ash grow, such that he could realize becoming Pokemon Master is merely a (farfetched) dream of children, where it needs to "wake up" from it when he becomes an adult. The badge quest journey to Shudo Takeshi is like a pilgrimage from children to adult, and that journey is the "dream" of children. Hence, in order to become an adult at the end, one need to step out of the "dream", face back to the "reality". But yet, Shudo hoped that even when one become an adult, one will still feel nostalgic of that "dreaming past". (BTW, that doesn't mean Ash's coma theory is canon. I think Shudo's meaning of "weak up from the dream to become adult" is more of a connotation) As a sidenote, Shudo Takeshi originally planned the EP 031 Dig Those Diglett! be a foreshadow of such ending. Diglett can not be caught in Pokeball (or should say too difficult to catch), they are destroying the dam facilities, to many people, especially the ones involved in building the dam, is just like a pest to be eliminated. Yet, they are protecting the nature, they are protecting their home land. Shudo Takeshi wanted to extend the themes to Human vs Nature(Pokemon), where it then evoke the doubt of why Pokemon listen to their trainer, is Pokemon really a kind of creature so easily to befriend, why they battle for us, and then ultimately question oneself the rightness of the job of trainer itself. Really depressive, and really philosophical, huh? Too bad that a children show is not build to be philosophical right from the very beginning. And such plan was critically disrupted due to the Porygon Shock Incident in later time.

It's an interesting analysis on Shudō's intentions and sheds new light on the anime production (though I can't 100% confirm since I don't know Japanese that well). Any thoughts on this?
 
Karxrida :
Hmm, well obviously I can't say what Shudo Takeshi's intentions were, however I think the whole "Pokemon Revolution" thing sounds going a bit too far. Am I saying that's not what he envisioned? No, I'm just saying even if that was his intention I don't think it would have gone over that well (note that shows have many MANY ideas during its conception and initial episodes/seasons that end up getting cut as the show goes on because it didn't fit with the way the show was going). I never took the Diglett & Dugtrio episode as a hint of a future Pokemon rebelling, I more saw it as a tale of caution about human progress and how it affects the environment. The Diglett and Dugtrio didn't hate humans, they were just trying to protect their and other Pokemon home from the dam builders who didn't realize that the construction would flood the valley where they lived (note the Diglett and Dugtrio never really injured anyone, sure they destroyed property but they needed to. Also it's not like the builders were heartless monster, as soon as the foreman realized what was happening he decided to cancel the construction of the dam). The trainer's Pokemon didn't come out of their Poke Balls because they wanted to leave them defenseless, they knew why the Diglett and Dugtrio were doing and didn't want to be used to stop them. Also there was no point in trying to catch the Diglett as there was too many of them.
That said I do like the idea of Ash realizing becoming a "Pokemon Master" is an unobtainable goal and thus "grows up" and wouldn't be surprised if that's one of the original messages that, while not entirely present, still sort of exists. One can argue till their face is blue when Ash's "journey" should have ended, however notice that even to this day Ash hasn't won a league. Why? Well possibly to enforce the message that being a "Pokemon Master" is an impossible goal and Ash, being a kid, doesn't necessarily have what it takes to win. There's not only someone better, but also more mature and they usually end up winning. Every person (that we know of) that won the Pokemon League has been older and more mature than Ash: Tyson is Hoenn, Tobias in Sinnoh, and Virgil in Unova. In addition most of the trainers who beat Ash also were a bit more mature: Ritchie in Kanto, Harrison in Johto, Tyson is Hoenn, and Tobias in Sinnoh (only exception is Cameron in Unova who only won because in the anime Lucario = hax, and even then it was BS and Ash should have lost to Virgil (thankfully Cameron lost to Virgil so in proxy he also beat Ash)). Also the Champion who one could argue is the closest thing to a Pokemon Master have all been adults (at least in the anime, though to be fair in the game Blue was the grandson of Professor Oak and Iris was a prodigy pretty much trained to win the Champion position (so that later in life she can take the position of Opelucid Gym Leader)). And the only times Ash did win a major event like the Orange Islands and Battle Frontier was due to special circumstances (Ash wasn't the first trainer to defeat Drake and Ash didn't have to beat an entire tournament of trainers to challenge him. The Battle Frontier was just more difficult Gym challenges, Ash barely winning against Brandon (and we know Reggie got all but Brandon's Symbol so it's not like Ash was the only one to defeat a Frontier Brain)).
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter Shudo Takeshi's intention the attitude of the show was going to decide how things went. With that said I would have liked to see Ash getting a conclusive ending that has him realize that, while some dreams are impossible like the one he's after, he still has plenty of potential. After that I would have then left Ash and focused on another new character who too would realize this but in a different way. Of course this plan would have needed to be implemented as soon as the Kanto League wrapped up, by now its too late and the perfect time to have ended Ash's journey would be having him accept the position as Frontier Brain at the end of the Hoenn arc.
 
Yeah, the moment I realised that pretty much all the Champions, Elite 4 members and winners of the Pokemon League in the anime were older trainers, I knew that Ash wasn't going to achieve his goal any time soon. If he aged I could see it happening, but nope, the writers want to keep him 10 forever and want to make sure that he continuously gets nerfed at the start of every new region by having to build a brand new team from scratch.

I may have to start considering the possibility that I will die of old age before Ash becomes a Champion, and I'm only 23 lol
 
I've never heard of that ending.

However, I've heard of another rumored ending that was originally scheduled prior to the release of Gold and Silver.
It consists of Ash finally capturing all the Pokemon, then went to sleep.
It says that Ash's journey has come to an end.
Then Ash wakes up, saying that he's going to travel to another world for another adventure.
 
Movie Update:
Some more Movie news, including about info on the dubbed version. First, starting with CoroCoro leaks, they announced Hoopa's Unbound Form (giving us some official artwork for it) though don't really tell us anything else besides its Psychic/Dark and is 16 times the height and 20 times the weight of Hoopa.
Spr_6o_720U.png

So finally this won't be the only way we know of Hoopa Unbound.

It also made some announcement about the 6 Legendary giveaways but I'll cover that over on the Event Discussion.

Later an announcement was also made about "Hoopa's Appear Plan" which to appear on April 23rd. It seems to be a special episode of the anime featuring Hoopa, though that's all that is known.

Moving on, as I said we have some dub news on the movie and that news is indeed the title and the dubbed version of the first trailer! "The Archdjinni of the Rings: Hoopa" has been retitled "Hoopa: Clash of the Ages" to probably reflect that 11+ other Legendaries are appearing in the movie aside from Hoopa and all are fighting. At least it now has a nice looking logo:
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And they see each generation kept on adding too many Legendaries...

Anyway, here's also the trailer:

As you can imagine people are already compaining about Hoopa's voice. Personally I would have liked it to sound a bit more mischievous but it's alright by Pokemon's standards. Only other thing I'd point out is that they call the Prison Bottle the "Ancient Relic". Could he just be calling it an ancient relic and that's not its name? Possibly, though it sounds like that's what he's calling it as its actual name. Don't know what he said in the Japanese version, the Prison Bottle's Japanese name is "Jar of Binding" so if anyone knows Japanese you can correct me or not.

Well that's all I have to say. Kind of odd that isn't up on Pokemon's Official Website yet, though ever since the layout change its been kind of weird to navigate so for all I know it is there and I just missed it. Then again this was just posted today so may take them a few hours to put the announcement on the main site.
 
Well more of the plot has just been revealed. We're finally told how this Legendary smack down is going to happen:

As seen in the trailer, Barza unleashes the evil power within the Prison Bottle which is revealed to be Hoopa's Unbound Form. Calling itself "Super Hoopa", it forms a body out of the dark energy we see drifting out of the Prison Bottle in the trailer.
Trapped for 100 years for destroying a city, Super Hoopa is full of rage and so it summons Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, and Kyurem to attack the city. In response, Hoopa summon Lugia, Latios, Latias, and a Shiny Rayquaza to help battle Super Hoopa's Legendaries.

So it seems like Hoopa and Super Hoopa are different characters though at some point it looks like both may become one (guessing a battle within a mind type scenario)? And Barza is either possessed or really stupid, or both (depend on how he became possessed, because if its known the Prison Bottle contains an evil why would you even go near it?).
 
This truly is "Legend VS Legend"! A battle that tears the earth to shreds, splits the sea and even distorts space!

Barza better be possessed otherwise he's the biggest idiot who ever lived.
 
Barza better be possessed otherwise he's the biggest idiot who ever lived.

Well it looks like Super Hoopa does have possession power, guess who gets possessed by an evil power again:

You'd think he would have learned after the whole Pokelantis King thing during the whole Battle Pyramid arc... DON'T TOUCH EVIL ITEMS!
 
And Goodra is....

... Gone.

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And now Ash is back down to having 4 Pokemon (Pikachu, Frogadier, Fletchinder, & Hawlucha). Ash may want to think about getting another Pokemon that isn't weak to Electric-type attacks.
 
I still have my doubts on it, but in regards to Ash's number of Pokemon, the guys over at Serebii are speculating the possibility of Ash possibly catching a Noibat in the near future (though it's not guaranteed because it could be another cast member's as well). That could possibly make up for the loss of Goodra from the crew, but I guess taking over a Dragon with another Dragon just seems...you know...kind of dumb, but Noibat is a cute mon too and Noivern itself is a cool mon. Though it's also possible that Serena could own it too, but eh (Eevee is also a speculated possibility for Serena to soon own, possibly to promote Sylveon and its mighty Fairy-type).

The recent ending "Roaring All-Stars" heavily suggests Noibat and Eevee as new additions to the crew's Pokemon. This should be rather, well, interesting.
 
It was obvious that it was going to happen, but I still hate it. >_>

Ash may get Noibat, but I'm thinking James might get it. Or they can throw us a curve and Ash actually gets Eevee! lol
 
It was obvious that it was going to happen, but I still hate it. >_>

Ash may get Noibat, but I'm thinking James might get it. Or they can throw us a curve and Ash actually gets Eevee! lol

If this image of Roaring All-Stars is any indication, Noibat and Eevee are joining Ash & co.. But who is getting what who knows. It would be stereotypical for Serena to get Eevee, I'm actually surprised they're giving Ash & co. one since May already had an Eevee. Anyway being Ash just lost a Pokemon he does need a replacement so he could get one of them, though getting Noibat would mean he would get ANOTHER Flying-type on his team. If I had to guess, I'd say that Clemont is getting Noibat and... hmm... I'm going to give Eevee to Ash since he needs a wild card.
 
I'm thinking that Eevee or Noibat (or both!?) will hatch from a Pokémon egg, since we have yet to see "our heroes" of Kalos receive an Egg yet.

As for the other Pokémon in "Roaring All-Stars," it surprised me to see Jesse's Pumpkaboo evolve into a Gourgeist, since Pumpkaboo evolves via trade. What, did she almost accidently trade it away or something like with the Lickitung-Wobbuffet incident?
 
I'm thinking that Eevee or Noibat (or both!?) will hatch from a Pokémon egg, since we have yet to see "our heroes" of Kalos receive an Egg yet.

As for the other Pokémon in "Roaring All-Stars," it surprised me to see Jesse's Pumpkaboo evolve into a Gourgeist, since Pumpkaboo evolves via trade. What, did she almost accidently trade it away or something like with the Lickitung-Wobbuffet incident?

Pokemon that evolve by trade in the games can apparently evolve naturally in the anime. We've seen Trip's Conkeldurr, and Paul's Magmortar and Electivire. How this manages to be the case idk, but yeah it seems they can just evolve naturally. We've also seen wild Gengar, Dusknoir, Rhyperior, Alakazam, Machamp, and more in the anime. It seems that Pokemon that evolve via trade in the games can evolve naturally in the anime.
 
Well the recent intro seems to confirm who caught what Pokemon and maybe a bit of info on them:

Noibat: It seems like it'll be caught by Ash. The recent intro seems to indicate its quirk is that it has difficulty flying (and upon failing it cries). It also looks like it'll be the first one to join as its already in the group shots.
noibat.jpg

Alright, makes up a bit for the Goodra he lost. Though with it Ash has yet another Flying-type to his team making 3 of them flying (though luckily Noibat's part Dragon does neutralize its weakness to Electric. But still). If it have a difficult time flying as its quirk I guess that would be an interesting story, a Flying-type that can't fly when it should be able to with ease (especially if the first dual-type with Flying as its primary type, rubbing salt in the wound there). And I'm sure they'll probably have some gags with its ability to produce ultrasonic waves (probably from it crying due to failing to fly). Of course this this added to the team I'm curious what Ash's 6th Pokemon would be. One of my thought was a Skiddo/Gogoat but would that make it seem like he sort of copying Alexa? *shrugs*

Eevee: It seems like it'll be caught by Serena. The recent intro shows Serena watching it playing around and imagining it in a showcase.
serenaeevee.jpg

Didn't we already do the Eevee thing with May? I'm just saying there's a whole batch of other cute Pokemon they can do, you don't have to do Eevee again. No? Fine, at least don't evolve it into a Glaceon.
So it looks like Eevee may have a similar story as Pancham. It likes performing so Serena is going to befriend and catch it. That or it likes to play around and Serena sees the potential of it being a Showcase star. I guess the big question with Eevee is, of course, what it'll evolve into. Will they go the obvious route and have it evolve into Sylveon or will they surprise us (I doubt she'd use a stone one it so I imagine the only options in that case would be Espeon and Umbreon; maybe also Leafeon if they decide to ignore it needs a Moss Rock). Speaking of Grass-types, is it wearing a Ivysaur bulb on its back in that image?

If you're curious you can watch the into HERE. Other interesting things about the intro:

0:12: Ash & Pikachu, what are you doing to Clemont & Chespin?
0:39: Ramos and Gogoat. An already done battle but I'm pointing it out for the next few characters that show.
0:40: Valerie and Spritzee. Valerie didn't originally use a Spritzee so that's already a change. Also is this going to be her ace Pokemon? The other Gym Leaders are using their aces. Would be odd to change her ace from Sylveon, or at least not to another fully evolve Fairy-type. I'm going to guess they're just showing off a notable Pokemon of their's, though that does make me wonder what her ace is (at the very least they could have had her use an Aromatisse).
0:41: Olympia and a male & female Meowstic. Double battle maybe? Would be interesting to see both Meowstics battle and see how their battling styles differ (if the writers even think of doing that).
0:44: Not a Gym Leader but still VERY notable: Alain and Mega Charizard X from the Mega Evolution special. COME ON ASH GETTING MEGA CHARIZARD Y! I don't care if Ash already has a Fire/Flying on his team and that would make 2/3 of his part Flying-types, Mega Charizard Y can pick up the slack! Or at the very least they can have Ash break out Mega Charizard Y when he needs it for an important battle and outside that time let Sycamore examine his Charizard.
0:48: Noibat is already on Ash's party yet Eevee isn't on Serena's, so I'm guessing Ash is getting it pretty soon.
0:51: BTW no change for Clemont (or Bonnie). At least evolve his Chespin and/or Bunnelby...
1:18: For those who don't recognize this kid, his name from Shota and he had a cameo appearance battling Clemont in Lumiose City when he went off to prepare for his Gym Battle against Ash. This maybe seems to indicate he may be a new rival to Ash(?) and his thing will probably be observing Ash's strategy. Don't know how true that is but if the kid thinks he's going to get any helpful info observing Ash, well, he better expects to lose a lot. He may want to follow Alain, at least Alain only loses to trainers he should lose to (Elite Four, Champions, syndicate leaders).
1:23: Once again, Noibat with the group but not Eevee. If they weren't planning on adding Eevee this early I wonder why they're showing it to us. Like Noibat is a spoiler but I have a feeling its being added soon so not that big of a spoiler, but in the group shots Eevee is no where in sight. Save the Eevee stuff when it's close to being added to the team, or at least until Ash catches Noibat.
 
And Goodra is....

... Gone.

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And now Ash is back down to having 4 Pokemon (Pikachu, Frogadier, Fletchinder, & Hawlucha). Ash may want to think about getting another Pokemon that isn't weak to Electric-type attacks.

Oh how could they?! Great, the fanboys will probably say that Ash could've won the league if he still had his powerhouse (or Special Wall).

As much as I like Noibat, and Noivern is among my new favorites (not that is really hard, since there many new favorites among Pokémon this generation), I just hate how they added yet another Flying type. I already thought that Hawlucha needed to go, and maybe be replaced by something else (or not there in the first place.
If it were up to me, and Ash were to get another Dragon type to replace Goomydra, as much as I'd like Ash to pick up a Zweilous on the way to the league, and spend time training one into Hydreigon, Ash already has a Dark type (or will, once he evolves Frogadier), so I'd pick Tyrunt. I think Tyrunt already has earned a number of fans, and Ash doesn't have a Rock type. Sure this would be the first time one of the main characters gets a Fossil Poké, but there is a first time for everything.

And for a Grass type, I'm actually partial to Phantump, which Ash could work into evolving. He doesn't have a Ghost type yet.

I get the feeling that they both decided that Ash would catch and later release a Goomy-Goodra before they knew Goomy was a fan favorite, but either way, this really sucks.
 
Oh how could they?! Great, the fanboys will probably say that Ash could've won the league if he still had his powerhouse (or Special Wall).

As much as I like Noibat, and Noivern is among my new favorites (not that is really hard, since there many new favorites among Pokémon this generation), I just hate how they added yet another Flying type. I already thought that Hawlucha needed to go, and maybe be replaced by something else (or not there in the first place.
If it were up to me, and Ash were to get another Dragon type to replace Goomydra, as much as I'd like Ash to pick up a Zweilous on the way to the league, and spend time training one into Hydreigon, Ash already has a Dark type (or will, once he evolves Frogadier), so I'd pick Tyrunt. I think Tyrunt already has earned a number of fans, and Ash doesn't have a Rock type. Sure this would be the first time one of the main characters gets a Fossil Poké, but there is a first time for everything.

And for a Grass type, I'm actually partial to Phantump, which Ash could work into evolving. He doesn't have a Ghost type yet.

I get the feeling that they both decided that Ash would catch and later release a Goomy-Goodra before they knew Goomy was a fan favorite, but either way, this really sucks.
Ash has scraggy and boldore for dark and rock, and yes I agree the release was a cheap shock advertising mechanic. Screw Japanese marketing tactics.
 
Ash has scraggy and boldore for dark and rock, and yes I agree the release was a cheap shock advertising mechanic. Screw Japanese marketing tactics.

I meant that he hasn't caught a Kalos native Rock type yet. I'm assuming that he isn't going to throw one of the Pokémon he caught in the past onto his current team, at least not just for coverage.
 
My favorite episode to date is A Poached Ego. So much emotion. And no horribly sung song to try to make you feel sympathetic (Pikachu's "Release"). Pretty impressive for a non Season 1 episode. I generally find the TR backstory episodes to be pretty good. Ignorance Is Blissey and Go West Young Meowth are pretty good examples. James's was decent at best though, but damn- I'd hate to be him.

And this looks like a good place to bitch about the new movies and the Gen V anime.... Somebody want to help me get started?
 
My favorite episode to date is A Poached Ego. So much emotion. And no horribly sung song to try to make you feel sympathetic (Pikachu's "Release"). Pretty impressive for a non Season 1 episode. I generally find the TR backstory episodes to be pretty good. Ignorance Is Blissey and Go West Young Meowth are pretty good examples. James's was decent at best though, but damn- I'd hate to be him.

And this looks like a good place to bitch about the new movies and the Gen V anime.... Somebody want to help me get started?

It's always interesting to learn more about the Rocket Trio and its sometimes nice to see them do things with them that isn't just them trying to steal the Pokemon of the day. Infact I'm looking forward to next week's episode which is Jessie focused.
Also I think we do need to see a bit more of James backstory, though we know the jist of it I'd like to see how he interacted with his parents before Jessibelle entered into the picture. Also what did he do right after running away and where did he go? I feel there's missing elements.

Well what movies specifically don't you like? As for the Best Wishes series, hmm, well here's a few topics I have opinions about though would like to hear what you have to say:

1. The beginning, specifically the plot point with Zekrom & Pikachu easily losing in the first gym.
2. Gen V's rival, Trip.
3. The Unova League.
4. How they handled Team Plasma's storyline.
 
Gen V anime hate, lets start where it matters, the league and lack of evolved pokemon. Came.... The one who shalt not be named figth was painful to watch to be honest, unevolved pokemon everywhere terrible pulls and bad choreography, the fact that it was split on 2 episodes made it worse.

Also freaking oshawott, piplup was annoying, now put it on the main cast and do the same unevolved thing to keep it marketable that piplup did and you get the perfect recipe for fail.
 
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