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Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
Maybe he was thinking of Iron Tail, which only has 75% accuracy, which is why he'd want to use Coil.
he was def thinking of Iron head cuz of that sweet flinch chance
I took a break from Showdown for a while, but I've been having a lot of fun with Inheritance. Here's the HO team I've had success with on the mid-ladder, with a few threats I haven't seen discussed in this thread. Any thoughts would be appreciated -- probably going to try to revise my subpar stall team next and report back with the results.
Let me know what you think. Hopefully you'll find something new that isn't represented on the viability rankings.
Also so I'm contributing to the current topic of conversation while still telling people how awesome Aero is...
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Glare
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
Hilarious lead that induces a lot of rage. Definitely not as reliable as Mold Breaker, but still gets up Stealth Rocks and provides good utility with Glare. Rock Slide has a 60% chance to flinch and does good damage. Combine that with Para Hax and there's a good chance your opponent will never move again. You're so fast that pretty much every mon without priority has a good chance of being flinched to death. I also tried a Coil/Glare/Roost/Rock Slide set to mitigate annoying Rock Slide misses...but let's not talk about that haha.
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Endeavor
- Earthquake
Absolute beast of a lead. Blazing fast, always gets up Stealth Rocks through Magic Bounce, lives thanks to Focus Sash, and then does massive damage with Head Smash/EQ. Endeavor is a nasty surprise that will often leave the enemy lead at 1HP, allowing one of my three priority users to nab the kill. Mold Breaker EQ also screws Levi-tran, if you want to keep Aero around for that. Honestly my favorite member of the team just because of how reliable it is. Fuck Protean Marowak though.
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Taunt
Fast Bisharp is a very solid answer to a lot of the walls running around, like Chansey, Cresselia, and Sp Def Heatran. Double Dark boosts with the item and ability makes STAB hit really hard, with Knock Off obliterating pretty much anything with an item. Sucker Punch prevents faster Pokemon from taking advantage of you, U-turn is great for momentum if they have an obvious Knock Off absorber, and Taunt is just really good in general, preventing set-up/healing and forcing a switch/attack. People may question the Jolly nature/max speed, but it catches a lot people off guard while still doing massive damage.
Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Taunt
Best answer to Suicuine I've found. Leaf Storm 2HKOs all variants at +0, and you still outspeed/kill if they set up a Quiver Dance. Can absolutely sweep late-game once Gale Wings and E-speed users are dealt with, and killing something will always force these Pokemon out to deal with Sceptile, as not much can outspeed it without priority. Total Lando-bait, but once you sac something you can send in...
Salamence @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Sleep Talk
Because fuck Landorus. Jolly Mence outspeeds all variants and OHKOs, serving as an offensive Lando check while also doing Lando's job for him. It's a little weaker, especially while Jolly, but the added Speed makes it worth using. U-turn is great for momentum if they have a Gale Wings check, Flare Blitz is filler for bopping Steels, and Sleep Talk is so I have a Dark Void absorber. Really solid revenge killer throughout the game, as nothing wants to switch in.
Raikou @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Doing Starmie's job, just way better. Bolt/Beam coverage is a godsend, and Analytic can melt switch-ins. Because Electric and Ice are really all you need, Rapid Spin is a great utility that helps Mence and Zard to sweep. The last slot is complete filler. You could run T-wave or something, but I've stuck with HP Ground to deal with DL Heatran and opposing Electrics, like enemy Raikou.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- V-create
- Dragon Claw
- Extreme Speed
Surprisingly the most disappointing member of my team, but it puts in work from time to time. Sets up on pretty much every Heatran variant I've seen while in base form, then Mega Evolves to take souls with V-create. Dragon Claw is good neutral damage on most targets and it doesn't lower your stats, while Extreme Speed prevents you from getting revenge killed. It's also useful early game before you setup to pick off weak targets.
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Endeavor
- Earthquake
Absolute beast of a lead. Blazing fast, always gets up Stealth Rocks through Magic Bounce, lives thanks to Focus Sash, and then does massive damage with Head Smash/EQ. Endeavor is a nasty surprise that will often leave the enemy lead at 1HP, allowing one of my three priority users to nab the kill. Mold Breaker EQ also screws Levi-tran, if you want to keep Aero around for that. Honestly my favorite member of the team just because of how reliable it is. Fuck Protean Marowak though.
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Taunt
Fast Bisharp is a very solid answer to a lot of the walls running around, like Chansey, Cresselia, and Sp Def Heatran. Double Dark boosts with the item and ability makes STAB hit really hard, with Knock Off obliterating pretty much anything with an item. Sucker Punch prevents faster Pokemon from taking advantage of you, U-turn is great for momentum if they have an obvious Knock Off absorber, and Taunt is just really good in general, preventing set-up/healing and forcing a switch/attack. People may question the Jolly nature/max speed, but it catches a lot people off guard while still doing massive damage.
Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Taunt
Best answer to Suicuine I've found. Leaf Storm 2HKOs all variants at +0, and you still outspeed/kill if they set up a Quiver Dance. Can absolutely sweep late-game once Gale Wings and E-speed users are dealt with, and killing something will always force these Pokemon out to deal with Sceptile, as not much can outspeed it without priority. Total Lando-bait, but once you sac something you can send in...
Salamence @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Sleep Talk
Because fuck Landorus. Jolly Mence outspeeds all variants and OHKOs, serving as an offensive Lando check while also doing Lando's job for him. It's a little weaker, especially while Jolly, but the added Speed makes it worth using. U-turn is great for momentum if they have a Gale Wings check, Flare Blitz is filler for bopping Steels, and Sleep Talk is so I have a Dark Void absorber. Really solid revenge killer throughout the game, as nothing wants to switch in.
Raikou @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Doing Starmie's job, just way better. Bolt/Beam coverage is a godsend, and Analytic can melt switch-ins. Because Electric and Ice are really all you need, Rapid Spin is a great utility that helps Mence and Zard to sweep. The last slot is complete filler. You could run T-wave or something, but I've stuck with HP Ground to deal with DL Heatran and opposing Electrics, like enemy Raikou.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- V-create
- Dragon Claw
- Extreme Speed
Surprisingly the most disappointing member of my team, but it puts in work from time to time. Sets up on pretty much every Heatran variant I've seen while in base form, then Mega Evolves to take souls with V-create. Dragon Claw is good neutral damage on most targets and it doesn't lower your stats, while Extreme Speed prevents you from getting revenge killed. It's also useful early game before you setup to pick off weak targets.
Also so I'm contributing to the current topic of conversation while still telling people how awesome Aero is...
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Glare
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
Hilarious lead that induces a lot of rage. Definitely not as reliable as Mold Breaker, but still gets up Stealth Rocks and provides good utility with Glare. Rock Slide has a 60% chance to flinch and does good damage. Combine that with Para Hax and there's a good chance your opponent will never move again. You're so fast that pretty much every mon without priority has a good chance of being flinched to death. I also tried a Coil/Glare/Roost/Rock Slide set to mitigate annoying Rock Slide misses...but let's not talk about that haha.
Back when I ran offense, Protean Marowak/Haxorus/Rampardos was enough of a pain in the ass for my sash lead that I started running Inner Focus Weavile with Knock Off/Stealth Rock/T-Wave/Taunt inheriting from Bisharp. It's a pretty solid anti-lead, and it destroys Marowaks that think they can get in free damage. The lack of Mold Breaker sucks, though.
And, as a thought exercise, something that does not simply counter Gale Wings, but punishes it:
Magcargo (Regirock) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
- Stone Edge
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Filler
Wanna send your Gale Wings 'mon in to lure out the counter and just U-Turn out? Enjoy losing 1/6 HP and possibly getting burned, nerd. Wanna attack into it and try to wear it down? Enjoy losing 1/6 HP and definitely getting burnt. Nerd.
EDIT: Inheriting from Volcarona gives WoW / Roost / U-Turn / Whirlwind, which helps deal with attackers with Substitutes or who are trying to set up and which can conserve momentum. No Stealth Rock though.
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ive tried this not too long ago, but it is actually pretty amazing, not the BEST, but its capable of countering gale wings, and heavily scaring physical proteaners potentially crippling them if they misplay and go for knock off on the switch. its definately something to try. personally, i ran clear smog on the last moveset, so all non steels cant use it as setup fodder.
For my team, I just switch out Aero into Bisharp, which resists all Protean prority moves. Though one time it was Speed Boost HJK Marowak and I got my soul snatched lol.
Another solid lead that fucked me up was Skill Link Terrakion. Rock Blast puts in work against Aero/Weavile, and you could throw on Pin Missle for Azelf or something.
That HP makes a bigger difference than I thought lol
Anyway, I was thinking of this Rhydon set (inherits from Maractus or Cacturne)
Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Water Absorb
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
-Spiky Shield
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off (filler)
-Cotton Guard / Leech Seed / Spikes (filler)
Defensive tanks ftw :D
Anyway, I was thinking of this Rhydon set (inherits from Maractus or Cacturne)
Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Water Absorb
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
-Spiky Shield
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off (filler)
-Cotton Guard / Leech Seed / Spikes (filler)
Defensive tanks ftw :D
No STAB? I mean, this is not gonna be hitting all that hard without a STAB move (and it has great STABS) or a boosting item. It's like
If I wanted to use a Rhydon/Rhyperior Water Absorb tank (I don't), I'd do one of two things:
Recovery (Rhyperior) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Recover
- Power-Up Punch / Toxic
(from Quagsire, last slot can go to Ice Punch and the SpD EVs shifted to Atk for a more immediately offensive set. PuP is good for making use of that free turn from Suicune, as is Toxic.)
Priority (Rhyperior) @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
(from Toxicroak. Simple as heck. Doesn't appreciate Unaware Suicune, but at least won't get burnt by it.)
After learning that Salamence has advantages over Landorus T, I think Salamence should move up in viability ranking, either to A or A+. This has been covered before, but Salamence has some advantages compared to Landorus T.
1. Its faster than Landorus T, meaning it can revenge Landorus T. Also it can run Protean sets more effective than Landorus T because its faster and has higher Special Attack.
2. Resist Scald. This point is big. Why? Landorus T's substitute can be broken in one hit because of Water weakness. Salamence resist Scald, so it can't be broken in one hit. Because of this, with the proper moveset, Gale Wings Salamence can beat Suicune variants unless it carries Ice Beam (most Masquerain sets I see carry Substitute though). I doubt Landorus T can beat most Suicune variants at full health (it possibly can in some cases, but I doubt its reliable).
Of course it has some disadvantages. First is Stealth Rock weakness, meaning it can't switch in as much. Second, the biggest thing that Landorus T has that Salamence doesn't have is STAB Earthquake. With no immunity to Thunder Wave, Landorus T is a much more superior option for Aerilate sets. But other than Aerilate sets, Salamence isn't that outclassed in any other sets.
Also the Attack difference isn't that big. Landorus T has 427 max Attack and Salamence has 405 max. Unless someone posted a calc that Landorus T scores a 1HKO that Salamence miss, I think the Attack difference isn't really relevant.
Considering Salamence isn't that outclassed by Landorus T, I think it doesn't make sense that Landorus T is in S rank while Salamence only in A-. It should move up imo.
1. Its faster than Landorus T, meaning it can revenge Landorus T. Also it can run Protean sets more effective than Landorus T because its faster and has higher Special Attack.
2. Resist Scald. This point is big. Why? Landorus T's substitute can be broken in one hit because of Water weakness. Salamence resist Scald, so it can't be broken in one hit. Because of this, with the proper moveset, Gale Wings Salamence can beat Suicune variants unless it carries Ice Beam (most Masquerain sets I see carry Substitute though). I doubt Landorus T can beat most Suicune variants at full health (it possibly can in some cases, but I doubt its reliable).
Of course it has some disadvantages. First is Stealth Rock weakness, meaning it can't switch in as much. Second, the biggest thing that Landorus T has that Salamence doesn't have is STAB Earthquake. With no immunity to Thunder Wave, Landorus T is a much more superior option for Aerilate sets. But other than Aerilate sets, Salamence isn't that outclassed in any other sets.
Also the Attack difference isn't that big. Landorus T has 427 max Attack and Salamence has 405 max. Unless someone posted a calc that Landorus T scores a 1HKO that Salamence miss, I think the Attack difference isn't really relevant.
Considering Salamence isn't that outclassed by Landorus T, I think it doesn't make sense that Landorus T is in S rank while Salamence only in A-. It should move up imo.
Sample Team for newer players:
Inheritors Clause
I think it's about time we did this, the freedom of spamming gimmick teams is just too much atm. I will be honest; with how unpredictable this metagame is, I do not expect this to get a permaladder without a clause regarding inheriting from the same mon over and over. Its a good start so we don't have a meta without control. There aren't really standard threats because we know that you can just slap 3 proteans on a team and win a lot of battles. I'm not going to make some giant argument for this because I haven't seen a good argument against it. Why should we get this clause? Slapping duplicate mons on every team isn't allowed in OU, but in inheritance you basically can; the movepool/abilities can all be the same. Sure, you still can't run more than 1 lan-t, but you can definitely run 6 different gale wings sets, including a gyarados-mega for moldy, and win a surprising number of battles. This isn't an overt restriction either, you can still run 3 gale wings mons or 2 protean mons on the same team, so its not like we are eliminating stacking similar threats on top of each other, but on principle, I don't think stacking basically the same threats on top of each other is competitive.
What do we lose? Protean/gale wings spam? Whats so good about those? They just are cancer in the metagame, to be honest, and just add to the matchup-reliant portion of the metagame. I think this needs to happen.
After a long use and a 55-14 record, I am retiring an older inheritance team of mine. After playing it for quite a while, refining and revising it several times, I am making a new one, and I feel this is a great team to get your feet wet because its hilariously easy to play.
Inheritance:
Lucario (Excadrill) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
Talonflame (Salamence) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Roost
- Swords Dance
Groudon-P (Heatran) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
Carracosta (Gyarados) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Substitute
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
Blastoise-Mega (Greninja) @ Life Orb
Ability: Mega Launcher
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Rapid Spin
Infernape (Terrakion) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Stone EdgeThe CLC core was featuring Hydreigon at first, and I about shit my pants because Hydreigon sucks for the most part. The change to Salamence was a gift from god. Salamence is one of the best mons in inheritance right now; it completely beats up other gale wings abusers. Not only that, but its dragon typing allows it to set up on intimidate Suicune. Paired with it in the core (this was a core i liked to start with) is Excadrill, which beats up on fat teams with its insane power. Adaptability LO Earthquake does unbelievable damage, being able to 2hko unaware suicune, while also living the incoming scald. Bullet punch also can do work against offense, being able to pick off a lot of weakened threats, and at +2, break past lant after rocks and several other mons in the 80/80 bulk range. Drain punch is used for Heatran, OHKOing at +2. Blaze Kick and Rock Slide are both usable, rock slide hitting zapdos and blaze kick hitting doublade and skarmory. Salamence destroys unprepared offensive teams, while excadrill can switch in on weavile's ice shard and check it with bullet punch while helping out with the stall matchup. In building around this strong offensive core, I started with the super annoying scarf heatran, which is hell for many offensive teams to face because its hard to kill before it wrecks your face. Its a great answer to many offensive threats, and is a working secondary check to landorus-t and can switch into brave bird in a pinch. Gyarados-mega is there to really destroy stall. Excadrill breaks walls, and is great at beating fat cores, but it doesn't really beat up stall teams. SubSmash Gyarados does this extremely well, setting subs on ever present mons like chansey and suicune and proceeding to smash them with its stabs. The sucker punch version does better against offense, but the Sub version helps against priority and absolutely destroys stall teams. This completed the offensive backbone of the team, creating a very solid backbone. My last two slots wanted SR and Hazard support, and they needed to be on the run to keep up with the hyper offensive nature of the team. As said earlier, Heatran is super annoying, and using a cool infernape terrakion set allowed me to get off a ton of chip damage on it. It features SR and a hard hitting Close Combat boosted by iron fist, and is a great chansey eliminator as well when I need it. Also serves as a good check to the ever present Ursaring, which waits around every corner to espeed offensive teams to shreds. Blastoise-Mega Greninja was a late addition, but I really like it for the immediate power it provides the team on the special side. Its dark pulses hit REALLY hard for having such high speed, and aura sphere hits pretty hard as well. Rapid spin gives me the best hazard support I can get.This is a HIGHLY offensive team and can be plagued by being very matchup based, but its high win percentage on the ladder and in tournaments means its pretty reliable. First things first, scout the matchup and determine what your opponent is weak to. I can guarantee something on this team will have the ability to shred your opponent's with a little support. Terrakion will be your typical lead against offense, wanting to set rocks and get out of the way. If you see a heatran, try to keep it alive. If your opponent's team is more bulky offense, immediately just start spamming high powered attacks; organize it so nothing is getting free hits. Your Terrakion can become a suicide lead, and use offensive pressure to completely overpower those bulky cores. This is an easier matchup than HO, which is the teams main issue. Stall teams want to use a bit more support. I find Excadrill is a great lead against stall, since most people expect the Terrakion to set rocks (although they don't expect this set), and often you can get a free SD and punch a huge hole in the opponent's team. If you see a skarmory, refrain from leading with excadrill, however. Gyarados loves to set up on suicune, and as soon as that happens its pretty much gg vs most stall teams. Note it can't set up subs on chansey, just go ahead and smash. Keep Terrakion and Greninja alive if you can't set up quickly, they will be important as you try to find an opportunity. There WILL be an opportunity at some point, so just keep your eyes peeled and make plays. Eventually you will overpower most stall teams.Its a fun team to play, and even seasoned players are recommended to try it because its very fun and hilariously easy to play. Winning consistently requires experience with the team, but even noobish players can win a lot of battles because this team overpowers about 90% of inheritance teams floating around right now. Now go try it!Mega Altaria: This is a huge threat because I don't have a really reliable check to it. You MUST keep excadrill alive. I'll tell you now, a lot of these will try to set up on terrakion, so if you smack it with a stone edge excadrill can easily revenge it.
Scarftran: This thing hurts my brain. Just switch around on it. Salamence will force it out since you carry roost, so a sub can go up against it, but its still a threat.
Glalie-Mega: Greninja and Heatran check most sets pretty easily, but watch out. Note the download set will carry techno blast.
GW Aerodactyl: A recent trend that I personally hate, you need excadrill to beat this reliably. Heatran is not a safe switch-in because you don't know what set it is until you see gale wings take effect, and this thing is so fast that its hard to scout GW.
The main reason landorus-t is S rank right now isn't because of its GW set, its because it can run a myriad of sets effectively. There are a number that aren't even on that list that, while not as effective as gale wings on paper, are extremely good in practice. I have been using a lot of Salamence and can say it should go into A, but no higher, because gale wings is really its only primary set. Most other sets have a better abuser (Dnite has better bulk, Lant gets ground stab, most fastmons are better for protean, etc.), and while they have lure merits, they aren't nearly as effective overall.
For the first set, Unaware is generally more useful than Water Absorb, since suicune is really the only mon it counters (and it doesn't at all counter ice beam sets). Run toxic in the last slot, since it allows you to actually do something to suicune, if you want to use water absorb.
Inheritors Clause
I think it's about time we did this, the freedom of spamming gimmick teams is just too much atm. I will be honest; with how unpredictable this metagame is, I do not expect this to get a permaladder without a clause regarding inheriting from the same mon over and over. Its a good start so we don't have a meta without control. There aren't really standard threats because we know that you can just slap 3 proteans on a team and win a lot of battles. I'm not going to make some giant argument for this because I haven't seen a good argument against it. Why should we get this clause? Slapping duplicate mons on every team isn't allowed in OU, but in inheritance you basically can; the movepool/abilities can all be the same. Sure, you still can't run more than 1 lan-t, but you can definitely run 6 different gale wings sets, including a gyarados-mega for moldy, and win a surprising number of battles. This isn't an overt restriction either, you can still run 3 gale wings mons or 2 protean mons on the same team, so its not like we are eliminating stacking similar threats on top of each other, but on principle, I don't think stacking basically the same threats on top of each other is competitive.
What do we lose? Protean/gale wings spam? Whats so good about those? They just are cancer in the metagame, to be honest, and just add to the matchup-reliant portion of the metagame. I think this needs to happen.
I agree with this. It isn't an Ability Clause -- it really is no different from Species Clause. In Inheritance, you're really using twelve Pokemon, six donors and six inheritors. If the inheritors are restricted by species, it makes sense for the donors as well. "Inheritors Clause" really makes no sense though: the inheritors are the ones that are inheriting, not providing. "Donor Clause" makes more sense.
And completely off topic, but I came with a sneaky theory set that I haven't put to use yet, but would be useful on dragon-spam/bird-spam/whatever-spam teams that need Steels gone in order to sweep.
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Gravity
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave/filler
Magnet Pull + Ground/Fire coverage + Gravity ensures that every relevant Steel type gets slugged. Max Sp Def Levitran is 2HKO'd without Stealth Rocks with no Sp Attack investment, and can't do anything back. DL Heatran does similar levels of nothing, but you don't even need Gravity.
Really only a relevant choice on teams that spam Steel-resisted moves (like Brave Bird, E-Speed, -ate attacks), but no one will see it coming (unless it becomes popular, then expect random HP Grass to pop up on Heatran).
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For Inheritor clause, don't forget that you can still birdspam with two different ways. Only Talonflame gets Brave Bird, but Fletchling and Fletchinder both get Swords Dance and Acrobatics, so you can still bring up to three pokes with Gale Wings. As for Protean, there are four users, namely Kecleon and Greninja evolution line, so its quite spammable because if you can't inherit from Kecleon, you can inherit from Greninja.
As noted, you have to run very different sets between GW and Protean users. You can only have one Banded Brave Bird, and two SD + Acrobatics + Wisp(?) sets, at the very most. Kecleon and Greninja have totally different moves, so there's not much repetition there (they both have Ice Beam/Grass Knot, I guess). Even assuming exploiting these abilities to the max, you still end up with three at most, and between those, several distinctions. I think a Donor Clause would accomplish what it sets out to do.
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I agree with this. It isn't an Ability Clause -- it really is no different from Species Clause. In Inheritance, you're really using twelve Pokemon, six donors and six inheritors. If the inheritors are restricted by species, it makes sense for the donors as well. "Inheritors Clause" really makes no sense though: the inheritors are the ones that are inheriting, not providing. "Donor Clause" makes more sense.
And completely off topic, but I came with a sneaky theory set that I haven't put to use yet, but would be useful on dragon-spam/bird-spam/whatever-spam teams that need Steels gone in order to sweep.
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Gravity
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave/filler
Magnet Pull + Ground/Fire coverage + Gravity ensures that every relevant Steel type gets slugged. Max Sp Def Levitran is 2HKO'd without Stealth Rocks with no Sp Attack investment, and can't do anything back. DL Heatran does similar levels of nothing, but you don't even need Gravity. Doublade, Scarfcross, Bisharp, Skarmory -- none of them can live two Earth Powers. HP Fire is for Scizor and Ferrothorn, while the last slot is for extra utility so that you're not dead weight once the Steels are gone. Gastrodon is bulky enough that few non-Grass moves can deal with it, and the only Steels I've ever seen run Grass coverage are Ferrothorn (has better things to do in this meta) and Mega Metagross (still an option but Slowbro is less common).
Really only a relevant choice on teams that spam Steel-resisted moves (like Brave Bird, E-Speed, -ate attacks), but no one will see it coming (unless it becomes popular, then expect random HP Grass to pop up on Heatran).
why would anyone keep a doub in on gastro?
I like the set, but Doublade can't be trapped by Magnet Pull, apparently Ghost typing being untrappable takes priority over Steel being attracted to Magnet PullI agree with this. It isn't an Ability Clause -- it really is no different from Species Clause. In Inheritance, you're really using twelve Pokemon, six donors and six inheritors. If the inheritors are restricted by species, it makes sense for the donors as well. "Inheritors Clause" really makes no sense though: the inheritors are the ones that are inheriting, not providing. "Donor Clause" makes more sense.
And completely off topic, but I came with a sneaky theory set that I haven't put to use yet, but would be useful on dragon-spam/bird-spam/whatever-spam teams that need Steels gone in order to sweep.
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Gravity
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave/filler
Magnet Pull + Ground/Fire coverage + Gravity ensures that every relevant Steel type gets slugged. Max Sp Def Levitran is 2HKO'd without Stealth Rocks with no Sp Attack investment, and can't do anything back. DL Heatran does similar levels of nothing, but you don't even need Gravity. Doublade, Scarfcross, Bisharp, Skarmory -- none of them can live two Earth Powers. HP Fire is for Scizor and Ferrothorn, while the last slot is for extra utility so that you're not dead weight once the Steels are gone. Gastrodon is bulky enough that few non-Grass moves can deal with it, and the only Steels I've ever seen run Grass coverage are Ferrothorn (has better things to do in this meta) and Mega Metagross (still an option but Slowbro is less common).
Really only a relevant choice on teams that spam Steel-resisted moves (like Brave Bird, E-Speed, -ate attacks), but no one will see it coming (unless it becomes popular, then expect random HP Grass to pop up on Heatran).
I keep forgetting these zany Gen 6 mechanics. Noted.
Agreed. As I said: I don't want to run a Water Absorb Rhydon/perior tank.
And completely off topic, but I came with a sneaky theory set that I haven't put to use yet, but would be useful on dragon-spam/bird-spam/whatever-spam teams that need Steels gone in order to sweep.
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Gravity
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave/filler
Magnet Pull + Ground/Fire coverage + Gravity ensures that every relevant Steel type gets slugged. Max Sp Def Levitran is 2HKO'd without Stealth Rocks with no Sp Attack investment, and can't do anything back. DL Heatran does similar levels of nothing, but you don't even need Gravity. Doublade, Scarfcross, Bisharp, Skarmory -- none of them can live two Earth Powers. HP Fire is for Scizor and Ferrothorn, while the last slot is for extra utility so that you're not dead weight once the Steels are gone. Gastrodon is bulky enough that few non-Grass moves can deal with it, and the only Steels I've ever seen run Grass coverage are Ferrothorn (has better things to do in this meta) and Mega Metagross (still an option but Slowbro is less common).
Really only a relevant choice on teams that spam Steel-resisted moves (like Brave Bird, E-Speed, -ate attacks), but no one will see it coming (unless it becomes popular, then expect random HP Grass to pop up on Heatran).
Shame that Desolate Land Heatran annihilates this with Solar Beam anyways. Honestly, I question the utility of a Magnet Puller that can't handle Desolate Tran, as that's probably one of the more relevant Steel-types to hit.
I agree with this... almost.
- In many cases (but not the ones mentioned), it's exactly as easy to inherit from a prevo as it is to inherit from the evo. For example, Clefairy and Clefable can both donate Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Soft-Boiled/Calm Mind + Magic Guard to similarly statted Pokemon. The donor clause would absolutely force you to run somewhat different sets even when using prevos for certain donors, but the situation is by no means universal.
- In some cases, it's possible to run utterly different valid sets inheriting from the same Pokemon -- that is to say, no commonalities whatsoever in abilities or moveset. Take, say, Mawile. It can donate its solid special movepool to a Sheer Force user that has very particular needs (Dark Pulse? idk), or it could donate its Intimidate + SD/Play Rough/Stone Edge/Sucker Punch set to Mega Diancie. To take a more extreme example, Corsola could donate a respectable Regenerator + Scald/Recover/SD/Toxic set to Suicune or a Hustle set with Edgequake/Icicle Spear/Explosion (cut me some slack, I'm bullshitting this). A strict donors clause could invalidate basically unobjectionable team configurations.
For some reason, in my 30-40 games on the ladder, I've never seen DL Heatran use Solar Beam. But that's a totally logical thing to have, so you're right. Probably not the best option. How about this?
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Gravity
- Fire Punch
- Stealth Rock
Has more weaknesses, but I don't think any of your targets carry Ice, Dragon or Fairy moves. Zygarde just has better stats in general, so this is probably a superior pick to Gastrodon. Not only is your base Attack better, but EQ and Fire Punch have greater base power than Earth Power and HP Fire.
(Also why does Probopass have Fire Punch?)
It punches using its nose, duh :^)For some reason, in my 30-40 games on the ladder, I've never seen DL Heatran use Solar Beam. But that's a totally logical thing to have, so you're right. Probably not the best option. How about this?
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Gravity
- Fire Punch
- Stealth Rock
Has more weaknesses, but I don't think any of your targets carry Ice, Dragon or Fairy moves. Zygarde just has better stats in general, so this is probably a superior pick to Gastrodon. Not only is your base Attack better, but EQ and Fire Punch have greater base power than Earth Power and HP Fire.
(Also why does Probopass have Fire Punch?)
The only problem I see with this set is LeviTran usually inheriting U-Turn from Flygon, so it switches out as you Gravity. It does beat DL Tran though. Probably should have mentioned this before, but Probopass also gets Volt Switch if you decide to go with a special attacking Magnet Puller for great momentum and Skarm killing.
I used this as an effective steel trapper for quite a while
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Thunder Bolt / Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power Fire
Beats most steel type one on one particularly when brought in safely.
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Thunder Bolt / Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power Fire
Beats most steel type one on one particularly when brought in safely.
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I think you mean magnet pull.
:^)
Thanks for the tip. I see a lot of Levitran inheriting from Solrock for Wisp/Rocks, but Flygon also sounds solid. Well, I guess there's no one solid answer to Heatran. Volt Switch is a pretty good option to mitigate that -- invest in negative Speed, and Volt Switch on the U-turn.
Here are a few replays of the Zygarde set from low-mid ladder. It does what it needs to...when there's a Steel. Otherwise, its kind of pointless. Ignore my shitty priority spam teams I threw together in 5 minutes. I was trying to prove a point. (The later replays are better than the earlier ones)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226915008 - My first attempt -- really gimmicky team haha -- I fix it shortly after
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226919332 - In which hax helps me beat Sub Seed Prankster Ferro
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226926682 - Report: Power Swap Deoxys-D is not a thing
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-226929838 - Scarf Protean Heatran comes through (and Zygarde too)
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What's the difference between this and running two completely different Mawile sets in OU?
Edit: OK, so I didn't check to see which tier Mawile was in nor whether the sets are actually viable on Mawile itself; I only mentioned Mawile because that's what I was replying to, I was really interested in the general question for a Pokémon that might have two completely different sets.
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