ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2

[Thisbemyalt]

So maybe its just me but I am starting to think tenta needs to drop to A-. Qwil has become quite a good mon as of late due to an amazing ability to check physical attackers. It switches in to many things tenta can but much more reliably, for instance entei and banded hera. Qwil also provides much more utility as it can setup hazards, twave, dbond, pain split, etc. This being said tenta is only finding a place on teams due to its better special bulk and the ability to spin. Empoleon is a great hazard remover with similar strengths and weaknesses while crobat can defog and also check fighting types. Overall tenta just seems to be outclassed in most roles and with how much we are raising mons we need to start lowering some that fall out of popularity since VR is purely relative, Tenta seems like one of the better places to start.
Edit: And yes I realize tenta is not useless at all however it is not on par with other A rank mons at the moment

 

[Wanka]

Im going to have to second my buddy noah on this one^. Don't get me wrong tentacruel is a good mon in this tier and can round out some cores nicely, but when you look at tentacruel you look at it and think ok, it has the typing to check fighting and fire spam, set up toxic spikes, spread scald burns, and spin. The only problem with tentacruel is that it really is not a very good check to fire and fighting spam at all. If it tries to switch into entei and gets burned your opponent does not even need to switch out their entei as they can live a scald and 2hko from there making it a very sub par fire spam check. Not to mention heracross has a good chance to 2hko even more physically bulky tentacruels after rocks. And since tentacruel is forced to run more physically bulkier builds, it takes away from its special bulk preventing it from taking hits on that side of the spectrum as well. Don't get me wrong it still is a good mon as it is a reliable toxic spiker, spinner, and good check to mons like suicune with haze and acid spray but it does not perform as well as it seems it should on paper, especially without that much reliable recovery. With a mon like qwilfish rising in popularity I just don't see tentacruel being as effective as qwilfish who has access to really good filler moves like thunder wave, pain split, taunt, and destiny bond making it very versatile, although tentacruel can do some things qwilfish cant, Im just not really seing tentacruel being as effective anymore.

That being said Tentacruel A to A-.

calcs

252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Tentacruel: 126-149 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Tentacruel: 160-189 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Tentacruel: 126-148 (34.9 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery


some special mons that can take advantage of the spD loss.

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Tentacruel: 153-180 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Tentacruel: 169-201 (46.8 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Tentacruel: 220-261 (60.9 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
(220, 224, 226, 227, 23

252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Tentacruel: 192-226 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Tentacruel: 122-144 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

stoise is somewhat irrelevant but just kinda shows that tenta switch in that well.

 

[Lucipurrr]

Im going to have to second my buddy noah on this one^. Don't get me wrong tentacruel is a good mon in this tier and can round out some cores nicely, but when you look at tentacruel you look at it and think ok, it has the typing to check fighting and fire spam, set up toxic spikes, spread scald burns, and spin. The only problem with tentacruel is that it really is not a very good check to fire and fighting spam at all. If it tries to switch into entei and gets burned your opponent does not even need to switch out their entei as they can live a scald and 2hko from there making it a very sub par fire spam check. Not to mention heracross has a good chance to 2hko even more physically bulky tentacruels after rocks. And since tentacruel is forced to run more physically bulkier builds, it takes away from its special bulk preventing it from taking hits on that side of the spectrum as well. Don't get me wrong it still is a good mon as it is a reliable toxic spiker, spinner, and good check to mons like suicune with haze and acid spray but it does not perform as well as it seems it should on paper, especially without that much reliable recovery. With a mon like qwilfish rising in popularity I just don't see tentacruel being as effective as qwilfish who has access to really good filler moves like thunder wave, pain split, taunt, and destiny bond making it very versatile, although tentacruel can do some things qwilfish cant, Im just not really seing tentacruel being as effective anymore.

That being said Tentacruel A to A-.

calcs

252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Tentacruel: 126-149 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Tentacruel: 160-189 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Tentacruel: 126-148 (34.9 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery


some special mons that can take advantage of the spD loss.

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Tentacruel: 153-180 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Tentacruel: 169-201 (46.8 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 44 SpD Tentacruel: 220-261 (60.9 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
(220, 224, 226, 227, 23

I Agree. I see Tenta used less and less on competitive teams and generally on the ladder these days.

 

[xRoyUltra]

How come Blastoise without his mega evolution isn't ranked?

 

[Ducem]

It's just outclassed as both a spinner and a bulky water type. With a decent amount of electric types now running around, a sub par spA stat, no reliable recovery move outside rest, and tenta being a better spinner, it's hard to justify stoise's use.

 

[Darvin]

Blastoise's movepool is also pretty barren without Mega Launcher to boost his coverage moves. His stats are average across the board with no particular areas of strength, so he's only going to be really good in areas you invest EV's into. His abilities are all passable at best. His only conceivable niche in UU is as a rapid spinner, but he's just not good enough in that role to merit using him when Tentacruel and Mega Blastoise overshadow him by such a massive degree.

 

[YABO]

Blastoise's movepool is also pretty barren without Mega Launcher to boost his coverage moves. His stats are average across the board with no particular areas of strength, so he's only going to be really good in areas you invest EV's into. His abilities are all passable at best. His only conceivable niche in UU is as a rapid spinner, but he's just not good enough in that role to merit using him when Tentacruel and Mega Blastoise overshadow him by such a massive degree.

I tend to disagree to a certain extent. While its true that Blastoise isn't the best option for spinning, it certainly isn't the worst. This whole page has been talking about how Tentacruel is pretty shit right now due to its atrocious ability to check Fire Spam, well Blastoise does that far better than Tenta. Also, comparing it to Mega Blastoise isn't very appropriate at this time. While MStoise is very good it finds trouble fitting on squads who simply would rather have another mega. Reg Toise doesn't have that issue, it's super splashable. I'd say that Stoise is moderately comparable to Swampert at the moment, just with worse typing and a different utility slot. Blastoise can spin, Swampert can rock. I'd wager Blastoise could find a home in C rank.

 

[Wish9]

Blastoise's movepool is also pretty barren without Mega Launcher to boost his coverage moves. His stats are average across the board with no particular areas of strength, so he's only going to be really good in areas you invest EV's into. His abilities are all passable at best. His only conceivable niche in UU is as a rapid spinner, but he's just not good enough in that role to merit using him when Tentacruel and Mega Blastoise overshadow him by such a massive degree.

Blastoise can find his way on to teams that don't want an increased ground weakness and/or want to use another mega such as Aero or Amphy. He may not be the best spinner but he's alright. I'd nominate Blastoise for C Rank (possibly B- if he gets used more in the meta although that's very unlikely.)

 

[Darvin]

Regardless of where you personally think Tentacruel should be ranked, it just overshadows Blastoise. The only area where Blastoise has any significant advantage over Tentacruel is his ability to tank Earthquakes better. If you're going to bring up any previous discussion as a talking point, how about Mega Steelix vs Mega Aggron? Aggron has better stats, better movepool, and a better ability. Steelix has the ability to stop volt turn, a useful secondary STAB, and a heavier heavy slam. Niches, but the consensus appears to be that it's enough to keep it C rank. Steelix had a lot more going for it in that comparison than Blastoise

While it's true that you can't compare a mega against its base form due to the opportunity cost, you absolutely can make that comparison in regards to the team overall. Put another way: can I get enough benefit out of an alternate mega to justify the loss of Mega Blastoise? That's a pretty massive power reduction for Blastoise, so that would need to be an absolutely team critical mega evolution to be worth depriving Blastoise of its mega stone.

 

[YABO]

Regardless of where you personally think Tentacruel should be ranked, it just overshadows Blastoise. The only area where Blastoise has any significant advantage over Tentacruel is his ability to tank Earthquakes better. If you're going to bring up any previous discussion as a talking point, how about Mega Steelix vs Mega Aggron? Aggron has better stats, better movepool, and a better ability. Steelix has the ability to stop volt turn, a useful secondary STAB, and a heavier heavy slam. Niches, but the consensus appears to be that it's enough to keep it C rank. Steelix had a lot more going for it in that comparison than Blastoise

While it's true that you can't compare a mega against its base form due to the opportunity cost, you absolutely can make that comparison in regards to the team overall. Put another way: can I get enough benefit out of an alternate mega to justify the loss of Mega Blastoise? That's a pretty massive power reduction for Blastoise, so that would need to be an absolutely team critical mega evolution to be worth depriving Blastoise of its mega stone.

Or you could actually read my post and address the points I made there? I said that Blasoise checks fire spam better, which it does. I said that Tentacruel gets fucked up by Entei, which it does. I said that the general consensus is that Tentacruel has lost viability recently, which it has.

If you want some other talking points I can give them to you. You can combo Reg Stoise with another "potential" mega like Sharpedo to keep your opponent guessing. Blastoise is a more reliable rapid spinner due to its access to foresight. Torrent lets it handle Fire Spam better by ensuring harder hits once it gets lower on heath. This discussion also doesn't have much to do with Steelix so that's fairly irrelevant as well but I'll still address it here.

You list Steelix's additional benefits over Mega Aggron as such. Stopping volt turn, secondary STAB, and stronger Heavy Slam. Lets take a look at Blastoise in the current metagame and see if we can find some useful niches over our pal Tentacruel over here. You so kindly pointed one out to me earlier by saying it isn't weak to EQ, meaning it stops two monster threats, Nidoqueen and Krookodile, in a much greater capacity than Tentacruel. To continue, some things that have been gaining in popularity recently would be Cress and Reun, particularly their bulky CM sets. Blastoise is capable of delaying these threats in a much better way than Tentacruel. Tentacruel dies trying to Haze these things whereas Blastoise Roars them out no problem. This was just off the top of my head but there are sure to be other circumstances where Blastoise's typing and added bulk will pay off.

In regards to Blastoise needing its mega stone, that isn't really true. If you want a defensive spinner Mega Stoise is definitely a waste of a slot in almost every circumstance. You're honestly going to tell me on a defensive mon that a marginal power boost is enough to warrant a mega stones use over using something like Mega Ampharos, Aerodactly, or Pidgeot? That's incredibly foolish.

 

[Ducem]

Another question comes to mind when trying to run regular stoise. One that I feel was never answered properly, why run blastoise over another bulky water type? You could just choose another bulky water that has already proved its usefulness on both the defensive and offensive end, like suicune and slowing. Empoleon could also be a good choice because of Defog. Blastoise, when compared to everyone else in the UU tier, seems to be outclassed. I feel as if there are better choices then blastoise at all times. Hell as a defensive spinner, I think I'd rather run hitmontop because of intimidate. Running regular stoise over another bulky water is like running Galv over Heliolisk. You can probably make it work, but it's probably not worth the hassle. (Disclaimer, I wrote this on a mobile device and at two different times, so it might well be as incoherent as all hell.)

 

[YABO]

Another question comes to mind when trying to run regular stoise. One that I feel was never answered properly, why run blastoise over another bulky water type? You could just choose another bulky water that has already proved its usefulness on both the defensive and offensive end, like suicune and slowing. Empoleon could also be a good choice because of Defog. Blastoise, when compared to everyone else in the UU tier, seems to be outclassed. I feel as if there are better choices then blastoise at all times. Hell as a defensive spinner, I think I'd rather run hitmontop because of intimidate. Running regular stoise over another bulky water is like running Galv over Heliolisk. You can probably make it work, but it's probably not worth the hassle. (Disclaimer, I wrote this on a mobile device and at two different times, so it might well be as incoherent as all hell.)

Empoleon doesn't resist Fire, Blastoise does. Checking Fire spam is huge how do you people keep glossing over that? It removes hazards and doesn't get murked by Entei, it's simple.

 

[Ducem]

I'll admit to blastoise checking entei and other fire spammers. But like I said, better water types do the same. And you could always just have another Pokemon use rapid spin or defog. Another thing said was that blastoise is probably usable in UU, but with so much competition, I personally don't think he's worth it. I didn't mean to negate the fact that stoise can block fire spam, because he does, and if you run Defense evs and not spD evs, he checks it admirally. but besides being another spinning option, he does nothing more, unlike suicune and/or others. I say regular stoise could definitely be put into C rank. With rain dish + leftovers I could see him be put onto a rain team. But I think any higher would be too much for him.

 

[Darvin]

I said that the general consensus is that Tentacruel has lost viability recently, which it has.

I have no opinion on Tentacruel's fall in viability. Rather, my point was to contrast Tentacruel and Blastoise. I feel you've made a much better case now than you're previous off-hand remark to checking fire spam, something defensive non-mega Blastoise doesn't even do particularly well. I can fully respect that Tentacruel lacks the bulk to effectively handle these powerful physical fire types, and I get the problem represented by said fire-types. Non-Mega Blastoise just doesn't look like a solution to that problem.

Blastoise gets worn down very easily, and most of the physically offensive fire types in the tier have coverage moves or secondary STAB's that Blastoise has to be mindful of. Sacred Fire gimps it (like so many other things) if it gets burned, Infernape has a secondary STAB that beats it, and Arcanine is often running status (on defensive sets) or electric coverage (on offensive sets). Its ability to handle ground-type attacks where competitors Tentacruel and Empoleon cannot is a nice perk, but most ground STAB's still hit pretty hard so it's not something you can switch into freely. On its own, I don't think this is enough to give Blastoise a niche in UU.

physical fire spam calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 89-105 (24.5 - 29%) -- 63.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 89-105 (24.5 - 29%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 116-137 (32.4 - 38.3%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Bulldoze vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 186-220 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Black Sludge recovery, and burn damage

252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 78-94 (21.5 - 25.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 157-187 (43.3 - 51.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 103-121 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 103-121 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 97-114 (26.7 - 31.4%) -- 48.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 126-149 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Darmanitan U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 58-69 (16 - 19%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Darmanitan U-turn vs. 224 HP / 252 Def Tentacruel: 42-49 (11.7 - 13.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 Atk Life Orb Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 82-97 (22.6 - 26.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Arcanine Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 164-195 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 107-126 (29.9 - 35.2%) -- 24% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Arcanine Wild Charge vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 216-255 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

You so kindly pointed one out to me earlier by saying it isn't weak to EQ, meaning it stops two monster threats, Nidoqueen and Krookodile, in a much greater capacity than Tentacruel.

Nidoqueen isn't really the best example since Tentacruel absorbs toxic spikes nicely and Nidoqueen is considerably slower so it has to be mindful of switching in on scald. Krookodile is definitely a much better example, although it still needs to be mindful of scald on the switch.

Blastoise is a more reliable rapid spinner due to its access to foresight.

I don't think foresight is all that relevant. There's only one Ghost type that's UU by usage currently, and Scald handles Chandelure nicely. Doublade may join it in the upcoming shifts, but it's completely crippled by burns so the last thing it wants to do is sit there taking scalds. Jellicent is pretty much the only relevant pokemon you'd be running foresight for, and I don't think that's nearly common enough to be worth it.

To continue, some things that have been gaining in popularity recently would be Cress and Reun, particularly their bulky CM sets. Blastoise is capable of delaying these threats in a much better way than Tentacruel. Tentacruel dies trying to Haze these things whereas Blastoise Roars them out no problem.

Good point on phasing those psychics. Phasing is another niche it has over Tentacruel, and definitely a must-have slot on any defensive Blastoise set since he's setup fodder to a lot of stuff otherwise. Very similar to Empoleon in that respect.

In regards to Blastoise needing its mega stone, that isn't really true. If you want a defensive spinner Mega Stoise is definitely a waste of a slot in almost every circumstance. You're honestly going to tell me on a defensive mon that a marginal power boost is enough to warrant a mega stones use over using something like Mega Ampharos, Aerodactly, or Pidgeot? That's incredibly foolish.

I concede this point; you'd use the mega and non-mega quite differently so team composition, spreads, and sets wouldn't be directly comparable. Blastoisinite definitely demands SpA investment and good special coverage moves, so it really clashes with the defensive spinner role.


While Rapid Spin isn't a panacea for viability (just ask Avalugg) it does lower the bar considerably and I think you've made a strong argument that there is a viable niche for non-mega Blastoise on paper. That said, I've never seen a good player actually use non-mega Blastoise and I'm not sure what kinds of teams it would actually fit on. I certainly won't be arguing against it any further, and look forward to seeing if anyone has replays.

 

[YABO]

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 95-112 (23.6 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 89-105 (24.5 - 29%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO

As I said before, Blastoise in terms of a Fire Spam check is intended to do the same thing as Swampert, arguably the premier bulky water atm. The only difference is that instead of laying hazards, it removes them. Also, bringing up Sacred Fire burns crippling Blastoise is strange considering when you look at your team and the opponent has an Entei, something is taking that burn. Better to be Blastoise than Tentacruel who won't even make Entei flinch when it comes in.

 

[IronBullet]

I'm with YABO here, I've been using Blastoise recently and it's actually produced decent results. While Mega Blastoise is obviously much more effective offensively, Blastoise has some advantages over it as a bulky spinner, namely that it has Leftovers which provides it with more staying power and that using regular Blastoise allows you to use another Mega on your team. This is a pretty big point as dedicating your Mega spot to Blastoise solely for spinning use is really a waste as YABO already pointed out, with so many other useful Megas out there.

He also pointed out how Blastoise handles Fire spam a lot better than its Mega counterpart and say Tentacruel, which is something that should not be overrated as the number of Pokemon that can repeatedly handle powerful Fire attacks from the likes of Entei and Darmanitan is quite limited. Blastoise's ability to condense two spots of spinner and reliable Fire-type counter makes it very usable in my book. Its bulk is also pretty underrated, 79/100/105 Defenses is nothing to scoff at - it pretty much puts it on par with Swampert. As such it can take on the usual stuff like Mega Aero (handles non-Stone Edge versions even better than Pert), DD Mence, it can Roar out Gatr comfortably and Toxic DD versions. The set I've been running is Scald / Rapid Spin / Toxic / Ice Beam, been interchanging Ice Beam with Roar because they have both proved to be useful. I haven't really missed Foresight as Toxic cripples Jelly while Doublade and Chandelure are beaten up by Scald anyway.

 

[Darvin]

Also, bringing up Sacred Fire burns crippling Blastoise is strange considering when you look at your team and the opponent has an Entei, something is taking that burn.

<- My favorite pokemon would like to have a word with you about that. Obviously Arcanine complements rather than competes with bulky waters as a fire spam check, and it does fear Stone Edge coverage so you can't be too predictable with it. I do find it ironic that Arcanine is a decent check to the very pokemon that overshadows it.

I think my gut opinion of non-mega Blastoise is perhaps shaped by how many bad sets I saw on my trip through lower ladder. My experience has been that it's incredibly passive and easy to play around, but I shouldn't let that misuse on lower ladder shape my opinion. I'd be interested in seeing replays of a defensive Blastoise in the hands of a better player on a better team.

 

[SaberSeven]

I'm still rather rusty when it comes to UU, but I'd like to nominate Mega Beedrill to be demoted from A to A-. Mega Beedrill is a powerful mon with base 150 Attack & 145 speed which outpaces a good portion of the unboosted metagame, but Mega Beedrill is a mon that requires some support for it to deal with opposing teams. 65/40/80 defenses aren't going to get you too many places especially with the typing it has. The meta has developed to where some mons can deal with Mega Beedrill.

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 112-132 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-1 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Salamence: 110-130 (27.9 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (and if you're using ScarfMence, Mence outspeeds & OHKOs with STAB)

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 128-152 (31.6 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 58-70 (16.8 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO

252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 207-244 (76.3 - 90%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 158-186 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 132-156 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 5.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 60 Def Crobat: 132-156 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- 83.8% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 156-184 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Beedrill: 227-269 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 218-258 (61.7 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (not the best calc I could have used in this situation, but this Krook has a shot to OHKO back with EQ)

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 68-80 (19.2 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 56-66 (15.8 - 18.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball (102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 204-241 (75.2 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 267-315 (98.5 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 225-265 (83 - 97.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Furthermore, you'd have to choose between running Knock Off or Drill Run for Mega Beedrill giving it a slight 4MSS where you either remove an item or best Steel types. Mega Beedrill is a strong Pokemon, but the meta has developed ways to deal with it and that's why I believe that it should drop to A-.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Only B+ for Darmanitan? It's a pretty frightening mon and a solid scarfer. Resists are not really resists when it comes to Sheer Force Flare Blitz which easily 2HKO's mons like Salamence, Mega Aero and Hydreigon (not defensive variants of the first two though). Sure it's walled by UU's top sweeper Suicune, but then again what isn't lol. I'm an avid user of it and I find it to be a really solid revenge killer. Which is its main selling point over Entei who is a wallbreaker that gets revenged pretty easily by offensive teams, unlike Scarf Darmanitan. U-turn is also nice to scout and grabs momentum against Swampert and company.

 

[Wanka]

O.O holE calcs

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Only B+ for Darmanitan? It's a pretty frightening mon and a solid scarfer. Resists are not really resists when it comes to Sheer Force Flare Blitz which easily 2HKO's mons like Salamence, Mega Aero and Hydreigon (not defensive variants of the first two though). Sure it's walled by UU's top sweeper Suicune, but then again what isn't lol. I'm an avid user of it and I find it to be a really solid revenge killer. Which is its main selling point over Entei who is a wallbreaker that gets revenged pretty easily by offensive teams, unlike Scarf Darmanitan. U-turn is also nice to scout and grabs momentum against Swampert and company.

Darm is hard checked by just about every bulk water if you are scarfed, also darm has no priority and doesn't come with a 50% chance to burn. Also bulk mence does eat FB's, plus entei isn't "easy to revenge kill" It is much bulkier than darmanitan and since Darm will be locked and fragile af it is very easy to revenge. Frankly I could see Darm going even lower but I have no really strong opinion.

O.O holE calcs

holE one liners

I'm still rather rusty when it comes to UU, but I'd like to nominate Mega Beedrill to be demoted from A to A-. Mega Beedrill is a powerful mon with base 150 Attack & 145 speed which outpaces a good portion of the unboosted metagame, but Mega Beedrill is a mon that requires some support for it to deal with opposing teams. 65/40/80 defenses aren't going to get you too many places especially with the typing it has. The meta has developed to where some mons can deal with Mega Beedrill.

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 112-132 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-1 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Salamence: 110-130 (27.9 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (and if you're using ScarfMence, Mence outspeeds & OHKOs with STAB)

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 128-152 (31.6 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 58-70 (16.8 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO

252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 207-244 (76.3 - 90%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 158-186 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 132-156 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 5.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 60 Def Crobat: 132-156 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- 83.8% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 156-184 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Beedrill: 227-269 (83.7 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 218-258 (61.7 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (not the best calc I could have used in this situation, but this Krook has a shot to OHKO back with EQ)

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 68-80 (19.2 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 56-66 (15.8 - 18.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball (102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 204-241 (75.2 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 267-315 (98.5 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 225-265 (83 - 97.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Furthermore, you'd have to choose between running Knock Off or Drill Run for Mega Beedrill giving it a slight 4MSS where you either remove an item or best Steel types. Mega Beedrill is a strong Pokemon, but the meta has developed ways to deal with it and that's why I believe that it should drop to A-.

Mega bee is one of the best megas on offense as it is not only a hard hitter but also provides great momentum especially since, unlike many volt turn mons, its u-turn hits incredibly hard so it really is the most effective mega at gaining momentum quickly which gives it a great role on any offense team.

 

[YABO]

Mega bee is one of the best megas on offense as it is not only a hard hitter but also provides great momentum especially since, unlike many volt turn mons, its u-turn hits incredibly hard so it really is the most effective mega at gaining momentum quickly which gives it a great role on any offense team.

Since Beedrill has been brought up 100 times I figured I'd comment on this. Like you said, the reason that Beedrill is good is because its U-turn is strong enough to dent anything that stays in on it. With other Pokemon on Volt Turn offense you're "predicting" every time you click U-Turn which can blow up in your face big time if you pick wrong. Beedrill's power lies in the fact that it can be strong with its main STAB while providing momentum. Also Darm comes with a nifty 0% chance to burn thanks to Sheer Force n_n

 

[Darvin]

I quite like Darmanitan; he's a fun and powerful scarfer to play with. He has a hard-hitting STAB, nice coverage with rock/ground, and u-turn lets him get momentum off the switches he can threaten. The problem is that he's very predictable, easily walled by bulky waters, easily worn down by stealth rock, outsped by other notable/common scarfers, and very fragile so he has trouble coming in safely (even if SR is off the field...) and is easily beaten by priority users. I'd say B+ suits it quite well.

 

[Ununhexium]

My biggest problem with Darmanitan, on top of those mentioned above, is that it kill itself in like three turns due to the incredible Flare Blitz recoil.

 

[aim]

Bunch of changes! After a lot of talking and rioting (sigh mence drop :[ ) we are finally here with some new changes. Huge shout out to Omfuga for writing the reasoning and the rest of the team! Keep in mind that since tier shifts are happening in approximately 24 hours, all of this is subject to change.

Cresselia A+ -> A

Cress, although massively bulky and sporting an awesome supportive movepool of lunar dance/toxic/twave and sweeping capabilities with moonblast/ice beam/calm mind, as a sweeper it's mostly outclassed by reuniclus or suicune. As a support mon, it's easy to set up on Cresselia with Reuniclus or even cm Florges. Even Feraligatr can sometimes use Cress as set-up bait. Cress has the same problem as p2 in that, even though it walls huge portions of the tier, it just kind of sits there.

Seismitoed A- -> B+

Almost fully outclassed by Swampert. Its only niche is water absorb and knock off, meanwhile it misses out on a significant chunk of extra bulk, ice beam, and roar.

Slurpuff B+ -> A-

It's hard to stop Slurpuff in UU now that it has drain punch. Although Slurpuff has lackluster speed and attack, on top of decent bulk, it's nice offensive typing and fair ability to OHKO most of UU at +6, as well as its ability to set up on common pokemon like Florges, make Slurpuff more than it's mediocre stats. Finally, Slurpuff can now gain health after setting up; for example, if it sets up on a mienshao using high jump kick, Slurpuff can drain punch after setting up on mienshao, and the extra health gained will allow it to take priority hits from the likes of Entei and Feraligatr.

Blastoise Ranked at C

Great bulk and utility as a rapid spinner on top of being able to check fire types such as Entei, definitely deserves a ranking.

Heracross A+ -> A

Heracross isn't what it used to be. Close Combat/Megahorn/Knock off coming off its nasty attack stat will always be undeniably good, however it doesn't have all the advantages it used to. For example, there are plenty of common mons in UU that can wall Heracross-- namely Gligar, Defensive Salamence, and Florges/Aromatisse. On top of that, it's speed isn't good enough to back its tremendous power flawlessly. Heracross is easy to pick off in UU with Aerodactyl, Salamence, Entei, Crobat, Hydreigon, or Infernape. Heracross is often most held back by its speed, but bolstered by its power. Unfortunately, however, now even Heracross' coverage isn't enough to fully supplement its ability to be revenged easily.

Krookodile A -> A+

Krookodile can trap some of the best mons in the tier. On top of that, using a choice band, its dual-STABs become a nuisance for almost any team. Krookodile is in a pretty good speed tier, and on top of being able to knock off abilities with its main STAB, it hits almost everything in UU with dual-STAB + superpower. With that coverage, you have room for pursuit to trap some of the best psychic types in the tier. Krook also has rocks, which it can run in conjunction with taunt as a good hard-hitting and bulky rocks setter with intimidate.

Feraligatr A+ -> S

Feraligatr is one of, if not the best, sweeper in UU. The thing about sheer force is it allows gatr to put holes into teams without going for swords dances right away. On top of that, after it sd's, Crunch/Waterfall provide near-perfect coverage in UU. On top of that, life orb aqua jets are nice for picking off weakened mons. With pretty good bulk, decent speed, and immense power, with priority to make up for its speed, Feraligatr is a sweeper that has no trouble trucking through most UU teams.

Salamence S -> A+

Intimidate sets are mostly the best ones with mence, and they have proven to be very good, however mence was overhyped when it first dropped to UU. It's very good-- particularly life orb Mixed sets and defensive defoggers, however it's not completely unwalled, either. Moxie scarf is okay, but walled by a lot of things. As for the life orb sets, the weakness to rocks and easiness to wear down, as well as the potential to wall with p2/cress/Suicune make it great, but not S-rank material. As for the defog sets, it checks some of the most dominant threats, but baits in things like florges too easily. Also, it must choose between using STAB, using flamethrower to hit steels, and using toxic and being completely walled by steels.

Lucario A -> A-

Not really seen as much in UU. Luke's biggest problem is 4 move slot syndrome. It has to choose whether to miss out on priority, get completely walled by gligar/mence, or be unable to hit psychic types. One of the cooler luke sets atm is nasty plot, which still hits pretty hard with STAB priority, and catches a lot of teams off guard. Flash cannon can be pretty cool to smack a florges, too.

Golbat C -> Unranked

Mostly outclassed by Crobat. Even the extra bulk doesn't supplement Golbat nearly enough to match Crobat's great speed and attack. Also, as a bulky defogger, Gligar outclasses Golbat.

Fletchinder B -> B-

lol

Qwilfish B -> B+

Great spiker/tspiker that walls Heracross and can spread status. On top of that, lead sets with explosion or dbond can be threatening to balanced/offensive teams.